A Christmas Tale: My (re-)introduction to Irish Public Transport #1 - Page 2

Thomas J Stamp · 04-01-2006, 14:12

The real point about christmas day not having a bus service is that, as I said above BAC says that no-one has requested it or made a complaint about it to BAC, and they said that just before chirstmas 05 not 1980. You're dammed right that CIE and it's sub companies are stuck in the 1970's, look at the lack of a centre door on new buses and the absolute refusal of drivers to use the ones that do exist on older ones, an issue that goes right back to the early seventies!! This season it seems the ball has started rolling and it's up to the potential passangers to make themselves known otherwise it's too easy for the uinions and the managment to pretend there is nothing to cater for.

And as is also pointed out above we have to get normal Sunday services sorted out. How can BAC pretend there is a reduced service demand on what is now actually the busiest shopping day of the week, which was why the clampers started clamping on Sundays? It is nothing but another example, which can be found in many places within the group, that the unions run the show and passangers are an annoyance that gets in the way.

Derek Wheeler · 04-01-2006, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasS

CIE is rubbish. There is nothing wrong with people on this board constantly venting about how bad they are at public transport. Maybe CIE might actually read this board one day while they are taking a break from building apartment blocks.

You're right, there is nothing wrong with anyone venting about how bad CIE were/are at providing public transport. There are specific sections for doing that on the board and on the web site. We encourage it. However, do you think there's any chance that you could come up with at least one single positive and realistic idea that could begin to force change instead of the "I hate CIE" repitition. Between this board, the web site and on the ground activities, the purpose is to develop ideas and policy on how P11 can achieve something in the face of CIE ineptitude, expose them, go after them and embarass them.

Im up to my neck in coordinating politicians, wannabe politicians and public campaigners in various districts so we can achieve things through real change. We have made a great start in Kildare's press today in relation to the Kildare route. It would be nice to get some creative ideas from the board. As I see things at the moment some of the posts in various threads regarding CIE/IE and our rail service are so steeped in negativity and the past, that Im thinking P11 should just stand outside Connolly with "WE HATE CIE" stickers on our heads.

alek smart · 04-01-2006, 23:15

"They failed miserably and you still have to pay two fares on two buses to make one journey across Dublin."
Whilst it may well be true that two Buses are necessary in order to make certain cross-city journeys it is NOT true to say you HAVE to pay two fares.
The choice of paying two fares is entirely one of the customer themselves.
The somewhat simple expedient of purchasing a Value-Pack of Travel 90 tickets €16 for TEN equates to €1.60 each for a ticket giving an unlimited number of journeys within 90 mins of initial validation.
Mar Shampla..... 09.00. Board a 46A in Foxrock for a journey to An Lar (Cash Fare €1.80) 09.30 alight in Westmoreland St and board the 0936 67A to Maynooth using the SAME ticket (Cash Fare €1.90) thus a series of journeys costing €3.70 is available for less than HALF that combined fare.
The salient point is that this range of tickets IS readily available in BAC ticket agents.
At some point the responsibility for organizing one`s commute does shift somewhat from the service provider itself onto the shoulders of the potential commuter themselves.
For example I know several well seasoned Bus users who habitually carry one Two-Easy (2 Journey) ticket for each fare denomination in their wallets thus ensuring that they ALWAYS have a ticket for whatever journey they make.
Few people know for example that one can use a lower value 2 easy ticket for a longer journey by paying the difference in cash to the driver and getting an excess ticket to cover this amount.
Far from having a non-integrated Transport System,Dublin has a level of Ticketing Integration somewhat better than might first be assumed,including quite a variety of Bus/Luas/Dart/Arrow pre-paid tickets.
The glaring omission is the provision of a single journey time-based transfer ticket available across ALL modes and that can be easily accomodated IF only the Dept of Transport will sanction a move to Flat Fare or Zonal Tarriff structure.
Far from constantly berating each and everybody working in the CIE group companies it would be far more useful to focus the Lobbying Device on the Fat Controllers office in the Dept of Transport which continues to operate according to the long standing Civil Service medium of ANY and ALL Change being Undesirable,lest the delicate Balance of things be distuirbed...

philip · 04-01-2006, 23:18

Fair point Derek, we must turn all the negative energy into something positive. On that note, when are we going to confront IE with the ever growing database of passenger information failures?

philip · 04-01-2006, 23:30

Alek,
I knew somebody would raise the prepaid tickets issue

The fact is that if I get on a bus in Munich sans-billet I can buy a ticket to complete my journey to any part of the city with any mode and only pay by zones travelled through. You can't board a bus in Dublin and do anything approaching that. You have to find a newsagent that sells tickets. This is simply NOT convenient, especially outside business hours or in places that are simply miles from the nearest shop.

You can't even buy a one day ticket from the driver on BAC. They do this in Glasgow (which also has pretty rubbish integration by international standards) where you just pay the driver £2.25 and he gives you a ticket that has the date and "all day" printed on it (from exactly the same bog standard 15 year old wayfarer ticket machines). How simple is that? Why can't BAC do that? Why must I go to a newsagent to pay BAC their money for a 1 day rambler? No excuse is good enough for these failures.

Mark Gleeson · 04-01-2006, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip

Fair point Derek, we must turn all the negative energy into something positive. On that note, when are we going to confront IE with the ever growing database of passenger information failures?

IE have been notified in writing quoting a list

IE have failed to respond

IE have changed the software

philip · 05-01-2006, 00:27

Ok, so the national rail company can't even be arsed responding. What about sending it to Cullen? He's their boss, right?

It's the height of ignorance not to get acknowledgement. I wrote an email to FCC informing them of knocked over warning signage in my area (which had been knocked over for weeks). They came out and fixed the signs but never bothered emailing even to confirm the receipt of the mail I'd sent them. Ignorance or what?!

Mark Gleeson · 05-01-2006, 00:36

Its strange letter goes in things change no response

Its much simpler than that really registered mail is the ultimate killer. Who cares we go face to face its much simpler that way

IE only write back when they can construct a story to cover themselves, we are wise to this and thus everything is cast iron no way out

philip · 05-01-2006, 12:10

I hear what you're saying Mark, but when they completely ignore us, who do we report that to? The DoT? What about these people?

Donal Quinn · 05-01-2006, 12:29

bit late but citylink ran a single service dublin to galway and back on xmas day

friend of mine took it last year - there was a decent crowd on it too...

http://www.citylink.ie/festive-galw2dubl.htm

Derek Wheeler · 05-01-2006, 21:05

Fair point Donal.

alek smart · 06-01-2006, 22:50

Phillip`s requiem for the standard single ticket is quite correct.
However my point above is that there is a certain amount of personal choice which prospective customers exercise in relation to their Journeys.
Phillips desired sans-billet journey is indeed one which Dublin Bus/Luas/Dart presently cannot satisfy.
That still leaves the ready availibility in over 400 ticket agents of not just one,but a Range of multi modal tickets with even the humble Nitelink ticket now being sold at the City Centre Spar/Centra 24 hr convenience stores.
Once again it has to be stressed that the fare structure operated by Dublin Bus is STRICTLY controlled by the Dept of Transport and one reason for the lack of an On-Bus one day ticket sale is that that ticket would then be regarded (by a Civil Servant) as a multi-journey one thus blurring the lines (In a Civil Servants mind) between single journey cash fare and the multi-journey pre-paids.
It should also be noted that Dublin Bus had progressed much further with its own Smart Card/Electronic Purse research than many realize before the Department of Transport suddenly lost interest in the concept some 15 years ago.
The decision then was to await further developments in the technology rather than to allow the company to press ahead with its own system.
In the meantime we really DO require a major push to switch customers away from on-bus cash transactions but that can only come with the ACTIVE backing and involvement of the Department of Transport.....

philip · 07-01-2006, 10:32

Interesting you should raise the Nitelink Alek, there is no such thing as a Nitelink ticket in Munich (or any german city I've ever been to). If you have a 1 day ticket (or obviously any season ticket) in your posession it's valid until 6am the following morning on all night services (the underground closes down at 1am but trams and buses run a limited service all night, every night as does the airport S-Bahn). If you don't have a season ticket then a single costs no more than during the daytime. This is what we should aspire to. I understands that the DoT have their mits all over this and I am equally critical of them. This stuff makes me quite angry as we could have introduced it all years ago.

alek smart · 10-01-2006, 01:02

Interestingly enuf Pip,Dublin Bus was in the throes of moving towards the introduction of 24hr services on some Trunk Routes up until nice Mr Brennan and his fully charged up senior officials entered the fray.
The initial routes would probably have been the 746 Dun Laoire-Airport and the 7 Cherrrywood-An Lar.
And before some other posters start jumping around with "Wat about the Union" mallarkey...The principle of 24 hr services was already covered as part of the last Drivers Wage agreement.
The only issues being the Timetabling/Rosters/MealBreaks and suchlikes.
What many people fail to realize is NiteLink is NOT a Night BUS Service.
Nitelink is an Express Bus Service linking the City Centre and suburbs and was introduced expressly (!!) to rapidly empty the City Centre following some serious Public Order issues nearly 20 years ago.
In the intervening time very little has been done to improve upon the concept which by now is suffering greatly in the wake of Late Luas and extra Taxi`s.
I fully agree that we should have a 24 Hr Standard Bus Service rather than the present premium arrangements...

markpb · 10-01-2006, 10:24

Does anyone know why DoT have such a problem with change in DB? Between here and boards.ie, it seems they have blocked the change in fare system, blocked any new routes or decent changes in timetable and refused to fund (m)any new buses.

MrX · 10-01-2006, 14:52

On the integrated ticketing vs prepay issue.

Try boarding a bus in Bordeaux sans billet! You will be charged an extra high fare for holding the place up. The driver will look at you like you're some sort of pond scum.

I would like to see Dublin Bus move this way too.

From a passengers perspective:
1) No queing at the door in the rain.
2) Both doors could be used (if they existed)
3) Flexible ticketing - easy integrated ticketing
4) Driver's freed up to answer queries etc
5) Driver's less grumpy!
6) Busses move faster without long pauses at stops.

From the drivers perspective:
1) Less hassle
2) No need to handle cash
3) No cash on board - much safer.
4) If in a dangerous area / nightlink mode no need to interact with passengers at all.

From a road users perspective:
1) Busses move faster and don't lag at stops while they're taking fares.
2) Environmental benefits from busses idling less and moving more efficiently.

There's no need for the expensive fancy Irish Rail / Luas style ticket vending machines at EVERY stop.
Major stops could have those machines while a parking meter sized device could go in at most stops.

Tickets could be validated on board at numerous points throughout the bus.

If it works on LUAS it can work on Dublin Bus.

philip · 10-01-2006, 15:37

Dublin Bus have something like one thousand buses but many thousands of bus stops. It would be cheaper to install a ticket machine in each bus rather than at any bus stops (except very major ones). This is how it works in Munich. The bus drivers do not handle cash at all in that city. The ticket machine is very compact and sits just behind the driver. Of course, this system is better suited to buses with at least 2 opening doors. It would be awkward to now opt for this with the monumentally stupid almost completely single door fleet BAC moved to in recent years.

markpb · 10-01-2006, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip

Dublin Bus have something like one thousand buses but many thousands of bus stops. It would be cheaper to install a ticket machine in each bus rather than at any bus stops

Would a compromise not be:

1. Install ticket machines at busy/city centre stops and refuse to accept cash at those stops

2. Accept cash at all other stops but at a premium over pre-paid tickets.

Of course the best solution would be to get DoT and co. to actually help DB instead of hindering them. Absolutely agreed with the vendetta against single door operation - there are clearly still some morons working for DB.

alek smart · 10-01-2006, 23:36

Very interesting and positive direction that this thread is moving in.
The main feature being the general recognition that the present system of On Bus Cash Transaction is totally unsuited to the City which Dublin NOW is.
The simplicity of the fare system is the key to giving Bus Customers some sort of return for their fare.
Presently the person who makes the small extra effort to take a bit of responsibility for their own commuting use is penalized by being ignored for it.
No substantial discount over cash,No great advantage in boarding time as they stand in line behind a motley collection of both real buffoons and those who merely act out that role as they sigh deeply,roll their eyes heavenward,muttering dark incantations before slowly and laboriously depositing each individual 1,2,and 5 cent piece into the farebox.....pausing occasionally only to attempt to poke their head around the drivers screen to see if they mistakenly dropped in a Mogadon....
It HAS to stop and quick-sharp with it.
The easiest method is the simplest....Flat €2 adult-€1 Child cash fare...Full Stop...No Change,No Change Ticket, No Nuttin...Drop in the Coin and Walk on By.
ALL current pre-paid tickets to be supplemented with a rationalized range of Two-Easy tickets available from machines sited at most BusStops within the Inner Canal Zone (Remember the significance of that in City Council terms).
I wud C the most popular 2-easy ticket being a €3 Off-Peak with unlimited validity tween 10.00 and 16.00.
However in spite of Dublin Bus Inspectors,Drivers and even Individual managers all recognizing the futility of the present system,I feel the impetus for change must come from the Customer,and must be directed at the responsible Agency.....The Department of Transport.
The Dept in one fell swoop could provide the necessary level of funding to support a Flat Fare or Simplified Zonal System,but presently CHOOSES not to on grounds which remain somewhat hazy.
PLUS !........ it makes a good running-mate for the Drumcondra Station Interchange issue !!!!!

04-01-2006, 14:12	#21
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	It's Christmass!!!! The real point about christmas day not having a bus service is that, as I said above BAC says that no-one has requested it or made a complaint about it to BAC, and they said that just before chirstmas 05 not 1980. You're dammed right that CIE and it's sub companies are stuck in the 1970's, look at the lack of a centre door on new buses and the absolute refusal of drivers to use the ones that do exist on older ones, an issue that goes right back to the early seventies!! This season it seems the ball has started rolling and it's up to the potential passangers to make themselves known otherwise it's too easy for the uinions and the managment to pretend there is nothing to cater for. And as is also pointed out above we have to get normal Sunday services sorted out. How can BAC pretend there is a reduced service demand on what is now actually the busiest shopping day of the week, which was why the clampers started clamping on Sundays? It is nothing but another example, which can be found in many places within the group, that the unions run the show and passangers are an annoyance that gets in the way.

05-01-2006, 12:29	#30
Donal Quinn Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 267	citylink bit late but citylink ran a single service dublin to galway and back on xmas day friend of mine took it last year - there was a decent crowd on it too... http://www.citylink.ie/festive-galw2dubl.htm

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04-01-2006, 23:15	#23
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	"They failed miserably and you still have to pay two fares on two buses to make one journey across Dublin." Whilst it may well be true that two Buses are necessary in order to make certain cross-city journeys it is NOT true to say you HAVE to pay two fares. The choice of paying two fares is entirely one of the customer themselves. The somewhat simple expedient of purchasing a Value-Pack of Travel 90 tickets €16 for TEN equates to €1.60 each for a ticket giving an unlimited number of journeys within 90 mins of initial validation. Mar Shampla..... 09.00. Board a 46A in Foxrock for a journey to An Lar (Cash Fare €1.80) 09.30 alight in Westmoreland St and board the 0936 67A to Maynooth using the SAME ticket (Cash Fare €1.90) thus a series of journeys costing €3.70 is available for less than HALF that combined fare. The salient point is that this range of tickets IS readily available in BAC ticket agents. At some point the responsibility for organizing one`s commute does shift somewhat from the service provider itself onto the shoulders of the potential commuter themselves. For example I know several well seasoned Bus users who habitually carry one Two-Easy (2 Journey) ticket for each fare denomination in their wallets thus ensuring that they ALWAYS have a ticket for whatever journey they make. Few people know for example that one can use a lower value 2 easy ticket for a longer journey by paying the difference in cash to the driver and getting an excess ticket to cover this amount. Far from having a non-integrated Transport System,Dublin has a level of Ticketing Integration somewhat better than might first be assumed,including quite a variety of Bus/Luas/Dart/Arrow pre-paid tickets. The glaring omission is the provision of a single journey time-based transfer ticket available across ALL modes and that can be easily accomodated IF only the Dept of Transport will sanction a move to Flat Fare or Zonal Tarriff structure. Far from constantly berating each and everybody working in the CIE group companies it would be far more useful to focus the Lobbying Device on the Fat Controllers office in the Dept of Transport which continues to operate according to the long standing Civil Service medium of ANY and ALL Change being Undesirable,lest the delicate Balance of things be distuirbed...

04-01-2006, 23:18	#24
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	Fair point Derek, we must turn all the negative energy into something positive. On that note, when are we going to confront IE with the ever growing database of passenger information failures?

04-01-2006, 23:30	#25
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	Alek, I knew somebody would raise the prepaid tickets issue The fact is that if I get on a bus in Munich sans-billet I can buy a ticket to complete my journey to any part of the city with any mode and only pay by zones travelled through. You can't board a bus in Dublin and do anything approaching that. You have to find a newsagent that sells tickets. This is simply NOT convenient, especially outside business hours or in places that are simply miles from the nearest shop. You can't even buy a one day ticket from the driver on BAC. They do this in Glasgow (which also has pretty rubbish integration by international standards) where you just pay the driver £2.25 and he gives you a ticket that has the date and "all day" printed on it (from exactly the same bog standard 15 year old wayfarer ticket machines). How simple is that? Why can't BAC do that? Why must I go to a newsagent to pay BAC their money for a 1 day rambler? No excuse is good enough for these failures.

05-01-2006, 00:27	#27
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	Ok, so the national rail company can't even be arsed responding. What about sending it to Cullen? He's their boss, right? It's the height of ignorance not to get acknowledgement. I wrote an email to FCC informing them of knocked over warning signage in my area (which had been knocked over for weeks). They came out and fixed the signs but never bothered emailing even to confirm the receipt of the mail I'd sent them. Ignorance or what?!

05-01-2006, 00:36	#28
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its strange letter goes in things change no response Its much simpler than that really registered mail is the ultimate killer. Who cares we go face to face its much simpler that way IE only write back when they can construct a story to cover themselves, we are wise to this and thus everything is cast iron no way out

05-01-2006, 12:10	#29
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	I hear what you're saying Mark, but when they completely ignore us, who do we report that to? The DoT? What about these people?

05-01-2006, 21:05	#31
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Fair point Donal.

06-01-2006, 22:50	#32
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Phillip`s requiem for the standard single ticket is quite correct. However my point above is that there is a certain amount of personal choice which prospective customers exercise in relation to their Journeys. Phillips desired sans-billet journey is indeed one which Dublin Bus/Luas/Dart presently cannot satisfy. That still leaves the ready availibility in over 400 ticket agents of not just one,but a Range of multi modal tickets with even the humble Nitelink ticket now being sold at the City Centre Spar/Centra 24 hr convenience stores. Once again it has to be stressed that the fare structure operated by Dublin Bus is STRICTLY controlled by the Dept of Transport and one reason for the lack of an On-Bus one day ticket sale is that that ticket would then be regarded (by a Civil Servant) as a multi-journey one thus blurring the lines (In a Civil Servants mind) between single journey cash fare and the multi-journey pre-paids. It should also be noted that Dublin Bus had progressed much further with its own Smart Card/Electronic Purse research than many realize before the Department of Transport suddenly lost interest in the concept some 15 years ago. The decision then was to await further developments in the technology rather than to allow the company to press ahead with its own system. In the meantime we really DO require a major push to switch customers away from on-bus cash transactions but that can only come with the ACTIVE backing and involvement of the Department of Transport.....

07-01-2006, 10:32	#33
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	Interesting you should raise the Nitelink Alek, there is no such thing as a Nitelink ticket in Munich (or any german city I've ever been to). If you have a 1 day ticket (or obviously any season ticket) in your posession it's valid until 6am the following morning on all night services (the underground closes down at 1am but trams and buses run a limited service all night, every night as does the airport S-Bahn). If you don't have a season ticket then a single costs no more than during the daytime. This is what we should aspire to. I understands that the DoT have their mits all over this and I am equally critical of them. This stuff makes me quite angry as we could have introduced it all years ago.

10-01-2006, 01:02	#34
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Interestingly enuf Pip,Dublin Bus was in the throes of moving towards the introduction of 24hr services on some Trunk Routes up until nice Mr Brennan and his fully charged up senior officials entered the fray. The initial routes would probably have been the 746 Dun Laoire-Airport and the 7 Cherrrywood-An Lar. And before some other posters start jumping around with "Wat about the Union" mallarkey...The principle of 24 hr services was already covered as part of the last Drivers Wage agreement. The only issues being the Timetabling/Rosters/MealBreaks and suchlikes. What many people fail to realize is NiteLink is NOT a Night BUS Service. Nitelink is an Express Bus Service linking the City Centre and suburbs and was introduced expressly (!!) to rapidly empty the City Centre following some serious Public Order issues nearly 20 years ago. In the intervening time very little has been done to improve upon the concept which by now is suffering greatly in the wake of Late Luas and extra Taxi`s. I fully agree that we should have a 24 Hr Standard Bus Service rather than the present premium arrangements...

10-01-2006, 10:24	#35
markpb Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 541	Does anyone know why DoT have such a problem with change in DB? Between here and boards.ie, it seems they have blocked the change in fare system, blocked any new routes or decent changes in timetable and refused to fund (m)any new buses.

10-01-2006, 14:52	#36
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	On the integrated ticketing vs prepay issue. Try boarding a bus in Bordeaux sans billet! You will be charged an extra high fare for holding the place up. The driver will look at you like you're some sort of pond scum. I would like to see Dublin Bus move this way too. From a passengers perspective: 1) No queing at the door in the rain. 2) Both doors could be used (if they existed) 3) Flexible ticketing - easy integrated ticketing 4) Driver's freed up to answer queries etc 5) Driver's less grumpy! 6) Busses move faster without long pauses at stops. From the drivers perspective: 1) Less hassle 2) No need to handle cash 3) No cash on board - much safer. 4) If in a dangerous area / nightlink mode no need to interact with passengers at all. From a road users perspective: 1) Busses move faster and don't lag at stops while they're taking fares. 2) Environmental benefits from busses idling less and moving more efficiently. There's no need for the expensive fancy Irish Rail / Luas style ticket vending machines at EVERY stop. Major stops could have those machines while a parking meter sized device could go in at most stops. Tickets could be validated on board at numerous points throughout the bus. If it works on LUAS it can work on Dublin Bus.

10-01-2006, 15:37	#37
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	Dublin Bus have something like one thousand buses but many thousands of bus stops. It would be cheaper to install a ticket machine in each bus rather than at any bus stops (except very major ones). This is how it works in Munich. The bus drivers do not handle cash at all in that city. The ticket machine is very compact and sits just behind the driver. Of course, this system is better suited to buses with at least 2 opening doors. It would be awkward to now opt for this with the monumentally stupid almost completely single door fleet BAC moved to in recent years.

10-01-2006, 23:36	#39
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Very interesting and positive direction that this thread is moving in. The main feature being the general recognition that the present system of On Bus Cash Transaction is totally unsuited to the City which Dublin NOW is. The simplicity of the fare system is the key to giving Bus Customers some sort of return for their fare. Presently the person who makes the small extra effort to take a bit of responsibility for their own commuting use is penalized by being ignored for it. No substantial discount over cash,No great advantage in boarding time as they stand in line behind a motley collection of both real buffoons and those who merely act out that role as they sigh deeply,roll their eyes heavenward,muttering dark incantations before slowly and laboriously depositing each individual 1,2,and 5 cent piece into the farebox.....pausing occasionally only to attempt to poke their head around the drivers screen to see if they mistakenly dropped in a Mogadon.... It HAS to stop and quick-sharp with it. The easiest method is the simplest....Flat €2 adult-€1 Child cash fare...Full Stop...No Change,No Change Ticket, No Nuttin...Drop in the Coin and Walk on By. ALL current pre-paid tickets to be supplemented with a rationalized range of Two-Easy tickets available from machines sited at most BusStops within the Inner Canal Zone (Remember the significance of that in City Council terms). I wud C the most popular 2-easy ticket being a €3 Off-Peak with unlimited validity tween 10.00 and 16.00. However in spite of Dublin Bus Inspectors,Drivers and even Individual managers all recognizing the futility of the present system,I feel the impetus for change must come from the Customer,and must be directed at the responsible Agency.....The Department of Transport. The Dept in one fell swoop could provide the necessary level of funding to support a Flat Fare or Simplified Zonal System,but presently CHOOSES not to on grounds which remain somewhat hazy. PLUS !........ it makes a good running-mate for the Drumcondra Station Interchange issue !!!!!