Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Where is this stuff about driving ETS staffs about coming from ? There is a standard ETS instrument at Ballybrophy. The main difference from a normal ETS controlled section is that the staff is not normally placed in the instruments at either Roscrea or Ballybrophy except as required to faciltate the release of a staff at Ballybrophy for a train from the mainline to the branch or to release a staff at Roscrea after a train has left the branch. Operation of the various connections on the branch and between the branch and the mainline requires the ETS token to be at Ballybrophy.

You may recall this post, which is what I was basing it on:
http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpo...71&postcount=7
There is some (dated) discussion along similar lines here:
http://irishrailwaynews.multiply.com...journal%2Fitem

[Mark Gleeson]

In simple terms as there is no return trip proposed, the ETS staff is going to have to be brought back sometime. Its unclear if its a normal ETS instrument or a simple one as per Nenagh

The arrangements in Ballybrophy are not designed for daily use and appear to require a additional member of staff to operate a local signalling panel. Limerick Dublin is reasonably easy, Dublin Limerick is a nightmare

Regardless the journey Nenagh Ballybrophy is painful to say the least and nothing is going to change there, be fun to see how quickly the track deteriorates as an ICR is a lot heavier than a 2700.

No online booking either...

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

In simple terms as there is no return trip proposed, the ETS staff is going to have to be brought back sometime. Its unclear if its a normal ETS instrument or a simple one as per Nenagh

The arrangements in Ballybrophy are not designed for daily use and appear to require a additional member of staff to operate a local signalling panel. Limerick Dublin is reasonably easy, Dublin Limerick is a nightmare

Regardless the journey Nenagh Ballybrophy is painful to say the least and nothing is going to change there, be fun to see how quickly the track deteriorates as an ICR is a lot heavier than a 2700.

No online booking either...

Yes I also understand there will be no direct evening service, but there will be additional services and improved connections.

As I said in my previous post there is signalling equipment at Ballybrophy jointly controlling (with CTC) the connection between the mainline and the branch. Amongst other controls this equipment requires the Ballybrophy/Roscrea ETS staff to be at Ballybrophy. The signalling equipment will presumeably be operated by the on-duty station staff.

This urban myth about there being some issue in returning the ETS staff (to Roscrea) is just that. Once the through service has left the branch and the signals and points are normalised, the ETS staff is simply popped in the instrument at Ballybrophy putting the ETS circuit in phase and allowing the signalman at Roscrea withdraw a staff. Job done, everything back to normal, sky still in place.

The setup at Nenagh in terms of ETS is different. The signals and points at Nenagh are controlled by a local groundframe, released by the Birdhill/Roscrea ETS staff. There is a special uni directional token to facilitate the Nenagh/Limerick commuter service.

[comcor]

Why no online booking?

I can understand with commuter services, but this is clearly not a commuter service.

It should be no difference from and other ICR leaving Limerick and going to Dublin.

[Destructix]

No TVM in Castleconnell Birdhill Nenagh Cloughjordan Roscrea some these stations can't get broadband (doubt machines like that would work on dial up) so probably never will be able to facilitate it. During the booking period for the GAA special you could buy tickets online which were collected in Thurles by Iarnród Éireann staff and brought to Nenagh that morning.

[Thomas Ralph]

Can I just make a point here.

This is a completely pointless show of political gombeenism, which is a major contributor to Ireland's current parlous financial state. National politicians should be having better things to be doing than trying to sort pet local transport projects.

There is absolutely zero logic in attempting to run a new train service that is going to take fifty people a day. That is what buses are for. There are commuter lines in Dublin where the trains are still rammed morning and evening and are crying out for investment. There is still only one airport in the country with a rail connection (and it's a tenuous one). This sort of carry-on needs to be cut out.

[Mark Gleeson]

Could not put it better myself, but sadly this is still Ireland and in North Tipp it's all about being the man who fixes things so Michael Lowry is a hero for his ability to get things done regardless of the sense in them the crazy casino idea for one won't be long before he starts claiming some input in this money burning exercise

[Traincustomer]

Not wishing to be negative but just realistic...assuming these extra services get the go ahead then patronage of them will have to be strong to very strong to sustain them and bring about an even half acceptable financial situation.

Lots of regular users. Also rail-based tour companies making use of at least two of the trains along the line on the regular basis. Sell SailRail tickets at both Nenagh and Roscrea. Look at all Bus Éireann and rural community buses that serve the towns that the train serves. Can any of them additionally act as feeders by serving a station? This kind of stuff and much more. (no one thing on its own might make a giant difference but the cumulative effect of numerous lower order things do add up but disappointingly attention to detail never seems to have been a strength of CIÉ).

If decent patronage across the board doesn't materialise within a reasonable timeframe (i.e. by the end of say a generous six to nine months) it is a reasonable conclusion that the whole line would close at that stage (wish to stress I'm not wishing that to be the case but just looking at things from a realistic perspective).

[Mark Gleeson]

Lets lose all the fancy tourist stuff, it doesn't pay the bills.

Its easy add a train, very hard to remove on and thats the game

[dowlingm]

Let's play along for one more minute...

If the train departed 0638 Roscrea then arrival in Ballybrophy would be 0701/0702. The 0654 would therefore have just left. Surely that stop would be deleted if this "interesting" plan got a go-ahead, which would accelerate the 0505 ex Cork by a couple of minutes or perhaps serve a more lucrative stop like Kildare instead?

Secondly, should the aforementioned train be a 2 x 22000 in the post 2700 era which seems to be approaching (and presumably the only reason IE didn't discount the idea by saying the 2700s couldn't keep pace on the mainline), could that second set then not turn back at Roscrea and form the Limerick commuter service instead? I realise there would still be the current northbound service to consider.

[Mark Gleeson]

None of the platforms are long enough for a 6 coach train, the bay platform in Ballybrophy is 30m short

[Thomas Ralph]

To take one of your examples, Traincustomer, SailRail sells a two-digit number of tickets on an average day. Honest answer please, how many people in the catchment areas of Birdhill, Roscrea, Cloughjordan, and Nenagh will buy one on an average day? I'd be surprised if it was more than half a dozen.

[doherty jack]

the bus stop is moving to nenagh train station as well , so the the train station there will be bus and train ! there is computers being put back into birdhill, nenagh and roscrea , the platform at
roscrea,cloughjordan,birdhill, can take 4 coachs or 6 cravens.
nenagh , castleconnel can take six coachs or 9 cravens! all stations along the line have recently been repainted , rewired and has all new platform furnitureand is getting new signs which nenagh already have the signs!

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

None of the platforms are long enough for a 6 coach train, the bay platform in Ballybrophy is 30m short

I was thinking of the 6 coaches only going as far as Roscrea then splitting as the 2700s currently split in Nenagh. The back three would be locked out until Roscrea

Originally Posted by doherty jack

the bus stop is moving to nenagh train station as well , so the the train station there will be bus and train ! there is computers being put back into birdhill, nenagh and roscrea , the platform at
roscrea,cloughjordan,birdhill, can take 4 coachs or 6 cravens.
nenagh , castleconnel can take six coachs or 9 cravens! all stations along the line have recently been repainted , rewired and has all new platform furnitureand is getting new signs which nenagh already have the signs!

Um... Cravens???? Bit late for that!

[Traincustomer]

I think the gist of my earlier post may have been misunderstood. In it I put forward a few low order ideas from tens of possible things. It could be likened to a small shop. Just because only two people a day buy a box of matches that doesn't mean one should stop selling them. Similarly if ten tourists a day visit the shop in summer and buy lunch items that's revenue that wouldn't otherwise exist. This is the point I'm making. Nobody is saying these things pay the bills. It's the ethos of doing everything possible I was highlighting. It's the lazy not try one's best attitude of numerous institutions in this country that is partly responsible for so much unemployment and lost tourism.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

It's the ethos of doing everything possible I was highlighting. It's the lazy not try one's best attitude of numerous institutions in this country that is partly responsible for so much unemployment and lost tourism.

Right, but let's look at one of your suggestions in particular:

Look at all Bus Éireann and rural community buses that serve the towns that the train serves. Can any of them additionally act as feeders by serving a station?

The answer appears to be a big fat NO. BE reacted to the Galway-Limerick service by inventing the 51X. They reacted to being handed the South Wexford line by routing services to the Quay and not to the railway station in Waterford. They are partnering with Gobus to hammer the Dublin-Galway rail service.

Of course the logical answer is that BE run a service from Colbert to Portlaoise with IE taking the passengers the rest of the way but that's not how it works with "the sister company". Instead, BE are likely to throw a few more buses on just to ensure that you'd have to be soft in your head to consider the rail over them.

[Traincustomer]

Was thinking of feeders in a more localised context e.g. Birr-Roscrea; Killaloe and surrounds to Birdhill

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

Was thinking of feeders in a more localised context e.g. Birr-Roscrea; Killaloe and surrounds to Birdhill

It would be great if they would do it - especially improving connectivity to Plassey/Annacotty from Castleconnell for instance - but there's no sign of any intention to do so.

[doherty jack]

departs limerick at = 5.15am, 6.25am,4.05pm and 17.05 all services going to bally and back!
5.15am will run stright through bally

6.25am will connect with the 7.35 limerick - Dublin(via thurles)

4.05pm will connect with 16.30 Cork -Dublin

5.05pm will connect with 17.30 Cork -Dublin

services from dublin 9am , 5.05pm & 6pm (all change at ballybrophy )

there is no commuter service coming from limercik - nenagh in the evening but morning one still excists!

[Mark Gleeson]

Bye bye the line so, impossible to commute Nenagh Limerick