[11-11-2007] 17:05 Dublin Sligo

[seamus kilcock]

With due respect Mark this thread is about using public transport to Sligo - in this case a train; a train that broke down and seriously discomoded many people.
It is about the awful service provided by IE to the people travelling to Sligo from Dublin on the day; some of whom were reported as elderly.
These people should not have to put up with a train which, according to your good self, was not in a proper condition before it left Dublin.
I am sure you are correct in stating some of the carriages had no heating. This is a disgrace and should not be tolerated. I hope our, very well paid, public TD's representing Sligo, get together and put serious pressure on IE to get the 22000 trains into service without further delay.
Fact is, modern trains like the 22000's are less likely to break down compared to Mark 2 stock pulled by 071's.

[Mark Gleeson]

Mk4 brand new has spent hours in countryside for various reasons, including one where smoke filled the coaches, delay 2.5 hours+, numerous delays recorded over an hour due to technical problems

2800 railcar set dating from 1999 spent 11 hours stuck blocking a track in Dun Laoghaire only 2 weeks ago leading to an enmass cancellation of all services south of Booterstown during the morning rush The list is endless, I don't care about the age of a train they will breakdown and industry experience shows that when a modern train dies it really does die and delays are in measured in hours. Really there won't be any difference serious mechanical failures will occur always and are quite independent of age.

But every time it’s the same line, passengers angry and no information and lack of any assistance from Irish Rail. Barry Kenny will come on and tell us how wonderful these new trains are going to be, he doesn't tell you that the *******ed set of coaches on the Sligo run have suffered only 2 recorded mechanical delays in 8 months, that’s about 27,000 miles per failure which is well good, the new train to Cork was managing under 7,000, enterprise is lucky to make 12,000. New =/= More reliable

The new trains won't fix the ignorant and lazy attitude of many staff, it won't fix the crazy management who can't deal with breakdown. Sunday night was a failure of people to manage. Train failed 18:20, rescue didn't leave Connolly till 19:25, had the rescue left Connolly before 19:05 it would have saved huge hassle

[MOH]

I was on the 15:41 from Carrick-on-shannon to Heuston. We were nearly 20 minutes late arriving in. Seemed to spend a long time in Mullingar, think we were waiting for the outbound train to pass, so that was well late at that point.

Think our train became the 19:05, so that was at least 20 minutes late leaving.

Needless to say, no explanation given.

[ThomasJ]

I was on the 15:41 from Carrick-on-shannon to Heuston. We were nearly 20 minutes late arriving in. Seemed to spend a long time in Mullingar, think we were waiting for the outbound train to pass, so that was well late at that point.

Heuston??

[MOH]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Heuston??

Uh ... yeah ... that's my pet name for Connolly ...

Sorry, Connolly!

[Mickey H]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

rescue didn't leave Connolly till 19:25, had the rescue left Connolly before 19:05 it would have saved huge hassle

I think the rescue engine came from Inchicore and had to do a complicated shunt at Glasnevin to get to Connolly as the direct route was closed due to track work

[Edward Ryan]

Regarding the heating on these trains. This problem used to affect these carrages on the Rosslare services. Some would have heating others would not. Seems to me that the problem is in the carrages not the generater unit.

Ed

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Mickey H

I think the rescue engine came from Inchicore and had to do a complicated shunt at Glasnevin to get to Connolly as the direct route was closed due to track work

Where it came from is irrelevant, IE screwed up and where exceptionally slow in dealing with it

[Rashers]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Where it came from is irrelevant, IE screwed up and where exceptionally slow in dealing with it

Agreed. That point was missed by any journalist involved.

[KSW]

Mark to my knowledge there is a 201 class loco at spare for the Enterprise back-up why not use this!!

[sean]

It's too heavy for the heap of **** bridge that carries the Sligo line over the Shannon.

[KSW]

Thanks Sean, That explains it!

[Mark Gleeson]

Actually the rule book permits any locomotive to operate to Sligo in a emergency

[ACustomer]

But would Sligo drivers be passed to drive a 201?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

But would Sligo drivers be passed to drive a 201?

Again not our problem thats Irish Rail's problem, rescue came from Dublin anyway

Basic fact is Irish Rail did not deal with the breakdown in an efficient manner

[MidlandDeltic]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Again not our problem thats Irish Rail's problem, rescue came from Dublin anyway

Basic fact is Irish Rail did not deal with the breakdown in an efficient manner

Rescue may have come from Dublin, but loco ended up in Sligo - and had to work the train the next morning back to Dublin. There are all sorts of issues over route and traction knowledge, and it is impractical to expect all drivers to know all routes and traction. Even if Sligo drivers were trained on the 201s at some point, that knowledge expires if not used. As Sligo drivers never come into contact with the class, the money spent training would in all likelyhood be wasted. If you were the driver of the rescue loco, would you like to be told at zero notice that you were staying the night 130 miles from home - and by the way, you'll get there after midnight?

I agree with earlier comments however, that all trains can fail - old or new. In nearly 200,000 miles of rail travel over the last 20 years or so, I have failed completely maybe five times. Only one of these was in Ireland - with a brand new 2600 in June 1994. Other failures have been with both new and old trains in my former home in the UK - and in one case, depsite much closer availability of a rescue loco, it took nearly three hours to get on the move. As was said, this is only the second failure of the old stock in several months of continuous use.

The response is what counts. IE did not do well, but this is due to a number of factors - stock incompatibilities being one. The cost of provding a spare, manned locomotive at, say Mullingar for one train a day would be unsustainable, and given the generally reliable operation since the spring would be difficult to justify. The food issue is unfortunate, but I don't feel Rail Gourmet are at fault on this - whoever is operating a refreshment service cannot be expected to carry significant "spare" stock just in case, as the wastage would be horrendous. Similarly, water will always be limited - I have travelled on trains with full restaurant cars which have managed to run out in the course of a normal journey. Interestingly, IE were balmed for this in the original report.

So yes, unfortunate, and perhaps could have been handdled better. Hoever, if there hadn't been a radio presenter on board, would it have made national TV news?

Sean

[Mark Gleeson]

Train was due to leave Killucan 18:00, it got there at 18:20 and failed

Several coaches in the set have ongoing heating problems (note if the shinny new 22k failed in a total sit down heating would die as well)

Despite having a full dining car and a trolley supplies ran out very quickly, even with less than half load aboard

Despite the passenger charter it appears passengers where charged for what little there was in the dining car

Information on board was lacking and staff not visible

The rescue locomotive was not dispatched until 19:15-19:25

The train was further delayed in Longford while the dead locomotive was dumped in a siding, that could have been done in Mullingar and have saved the train a number of minutes as it would 100 tons lighter there after

The morning after there was no notice on the IE website informing passengers of the refund procedure

The form that was linked from the delay notice online was the wrong form

No initiative was shown at any point to assist passengers or to even restock the catering at say Mullingar

A number of passengers managed to exit the train and successfully found hot food, if they found food why didn't the driver, guard or ticket checker take the initiative and get supplies?

The internal procedures and staff issues are irrelevant to the 160 odd who got stuck

[CSL]

If you were the driver of the rescue loco, would you like to be told at zero notice that you were staying the night 130 miles from home - and by the way, you'll get there after midnight?

That, in my view, would be one of the key things I would look for in the driver of a rescue loco.. otherwise why have a rescue loco ?


Second, although dropping into railway detail, if the rescue driver didn't know the route, is it not permitted for the driver of the failed loco to sit beside him and tell him about the bends and speeds of the road ?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by CSL

if the rescue driver didn't know the route, is it not permitted for the driver of the failed loco to sit beside him and tell him about the bends and speeds of the road ?

Yes, though every driver in Connolly knows all routes out of Connolly

[John J]

This was covered in the news but I can't see any posts here congratulating IE on their latest achievements on the Sligo line - so just thought I'd take up the mantle.

Apparantly the 17.05 ex Connolly broke down in Westmeath on Sunday night. Catering services were non-existent as usual, and some passengers left the train, walking over a mile in the dark to get hot food.
Train was scheduled to arrive in Sligo at 20.10 but got there well after 22.00.

Presumably the 19.05 ex Connolly and the trains coming from Sligo also experienced delays of many hours.