Broken Lifts / Accessibility - Page 2

Mark Gleeson · 27-10-2006, 11:11

Tara Street southbound and both lifts at Grand Canal Dock are out today

zag · 28-10-2006, 21:48

I'm surprised there hasn't been more about this. IE go to great lengths to build new bridges and install new lifts and (as has been noted above) for the past number of months there hasn't been a day where they have all been in action at the same time.

I can understand this in a huge network, but the number of lifts involved here is tiny. The mean time between failures must be measured in single figure days for some of the stations such as Booterstown. This just has to be a public accounts committee item next year - someone somewhere is paying for all this maintenance.

On the other 'service' side - I get the feeling there is no cleaning contract for the lifts. It certainly seems that way in Clontarf Road where I have *never* seen anyone use the lift and where the smell around the lifts is not pleasant. The lift in Booterstown isn't that bad yet, but it doesn't look like it has ever been cleaned. Give it enough time without cleaning and I'm sure the smell will match that of Clontarf Road.

z

Mark Gleeson · 29-10-2006, 11:02

Happy to confirm at 10:35 am that Tara Street south and both lifts at Grand Canal Dock are still out of order

Though not confirmed it is thought that IE do not have a service contract for the lifts

And I have seen the lift in Clontarf used

Mark Gleeson · 29-10-2006, 19:20

Both lifts in Blackrock are now broken

Mark Gleeson · 30-10-2006, 13:59

At 2pm today 30-10-2006

Blackrock both lifts
Grand Canal Dock both lifts
Tara Street southbound lift

Mark Gleeson · 31-10-2006, 08:33

At 8:30am today 31-10-2006

Grand Canal Dock both lifts
Tara Street southbound lift

Mark Gleeson · 01-11-2006, 08:57

At 8:55am today 1-11-2006

Grand Canal Dock both lifts
Tara Street southbound lift
Shankill northbound lift

Mark Gleeson · 01-11-2006, 13:46

At 13:45am today 1-11-2006

Grand Canal Dock both lifts
Tara Street southbound lift
Shankill northbound lift
Skerries southbound lift

Mark Gleeson · 02-11-2006, 09:05

At 9:5am today 2-11-2006

Tara Street southbound lift
Shankill northbound lift
Skerries southbound lift

Ok so this is getting crazy but there is logic behind it, its proof of a total failure to provide the advertised service and it will come in useful later

zag · 02-11-2006, 10:00

Agreed - this is getting crazy.

If I needed to use the lifts (wheelchair, bad legs, buggy, etc . . .) the level of unavailability would make it somewhat of a gamble whether I would be able to complete my journey or not on any given day. Where's the fun being stuck on the wrong side of somewhere like Booterstown with a broken lift, the next train is 15 minutes away and is going to a station you don't want to be at anyway ? Maybe I'll get on to some of the freesheets and see if they can shame IE into getting their act together.

On a slightly lighter note - anyone for a game of broken lift bingo ? We could get assigned 5 or 6 stations (with lifts) across the network and the first to spot all their stations listed on the displays gets a prize . . .

Z

Mark Gleeson · 02-11-2006, 10:15

Hot money is on Killiney being next

This is by no means a definitive list it what I know about.

Its totally pointless to have it on the platform displays, since its too late then surely it should be online ?

Mark Gleeson · 02-11-2006, 15:45

Breaking news

Shankill and Skerries back working only for Glenageary southbound to now be broken

Mark Gleeson · 03-11-2006, 08:56

At 8:55am today 3-11-2006

Tara Street southbound lift (now 1+ week broken)

zag · 07-11-2006, 11:23

Wasn't on the DART this AM, so can't comment on the situation today, but as of yesterday evening Tara Street Southbound was still out of action.

I suppose in a weird IE kind of way, this is actually progress because they seem to have stopped the rest of the lifts from breaking and there is a 66% improvement on previous weeks performance - that's gotta be good in someones warped way of measuring service levels. Or else they have stopped reporting the out of services . . .

Is there some kind of lift benchmarking thing coming up ?

z

Mark Gleeson · 07-11-2006, 12:09

I've given up on Tara Street southbound, its been out for the last 2 weeks, its still out

No other stations are effected as of 11:30 this morning

zag · 08-11-2006, 09:47

This morning Booterstown (possibly Southbound only) rejoined the list of broken lifts.

How do IE discover these lifts are out of action ? Do people regularly get stuck in them and push the alarm button, or (and I can't see this happening with the way most people carry on) does someone spend ages waiting for the lift, eventually work out it is broken, climb the stairs, go back down, go to the ticket office and report the problem ? Given the attitude of many IE customer facing staff, I know a lot of people wouldn't be bothered reporting it and would just walk out of the station. Maybe the stations that are regularly broken are the ones where the staff take the trouble to check and report, while the ones that never report as broken are the ones where nobody every checks.

z

Mark Gleeson · 08-11-2006, 09:58

Have yet to here of someone getting trapped in the lift

Word on the ground indicates software problems are a problem

Should of course note when a station is unstaffed the lifts are locked up

zag · 08-11-2006, 12:31

Mark,

It's interesting to hear that software is being rumoured. I ain't no software engineer, but it is fair to say that the requirements for lift operation aren't that hard to specify and code. These lifts aren't doing anything cutting edge, or pushing the envelope or any thing else like that.

I say the above with a little tongue in cheek - but the simple reality is that any commercial organisation would be up in arms with their suppliers if they experienced these sorts of ongoing problems with a *SIMPLE* mechanical device like a lift. There must be 10,000 lifts in Dublin that don't experience these problems - why do the IE ones still experience them after many months ?

It's not as if there are any weird things to be catered for - one lift per platform, two floors, one set of doors - a lift controller couldn't have a more simple job to handle.

It is interesting to note that the lifts at DunLaoghaire (which has the added 'complexity' of two sets of doors on the South bound side) don't seem to fail. And the lifts at Clontarf Road also don't seem to fail. The difference between these lifts and the 'broken' ones is that they were installed long ago and weren't part of the current upgrade.

z

zag · 09-11-2006, 10:07

This morning Booterstown is back in action, but Glenageary Southbound is bust. Funny, it always seems to be the southbound platforms with the problems.

Maybe they ordered a whole batch of Northbound lifts and put them on the wrong side . . . and the lifts are suffering failures as a result of stress -

z

Mark Gleeson · 09-11-2006, 10:18

Glenageary and Tara Street southbound are gone

Software engineering 101 normally starts with a simple example, a lift

Will shortly be taking this matter up with senior people in IE, we are gathering evidence, this thread being part of that and various infractions of agreed accessibility rules have been noted, some of which IE have already been informed of informally

28-10-2006, 21:48	#22
zag Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 199	Are these lifts fit for purpose ? I'm surprised there hasn't been more about this. IE go to great lengths to build new bridges and install new lifts and (as has been noted above) for the past number of months there hasn't been a day where they have all been in action at the same time. I can understand this in a huge network, but the number of lifts involved here is tiny. The mean time between failures must be measured in single figure days for some of the stations such as Booterstown. This just has to be a public accounts committee item next year - someone somewhere is paying for all this maintenance. On the other 'service' side - I get the feeling there is no cleaning contract for the lifts. It certainly seems that way in Clontarf Road where I have never seen anyone use the lift and where the smell around the lifts is not pleasant. The lift in Booterstown isn't that bad yet, but it doesn't look like it has ever been cleaned. Give it enough time without cleaning and I'm sure the smell will match that of Clontarf Road. z

01-11-2006, 13:46	#28
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	At 13:45am today 1-11-2006 Grand Canal Dock both lifts Tara Street southbound lift Shankill northbound lift Skerries southbound lift Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 02-11-2006 at 09:05.

02-11-2006, 09:05	#29
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	At 9:5am today 2-11-2006 Tara Street southbound lift Shankill northbound lift Skerries southbound lift Ok so this is getting crazy but there is logic behind it, its proof of a total failure to provide the advertised service and it will come in useful later Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 02-11-2006 at 09:08.

02-11-2006, 10:00	#30
zag Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 199	How do people who need the lifts manage ? Agreed - this is getting crazy. If I needed to use the lifts (wheelchair, bad legs, buggy, etc . . .) the level of unavailability would make it somewhat of a gamble whether I would be able to complete my journey or not on any given day. Where's the fun being stuck on the wrong side of somewhere like Booterstown with a broken lift, the next train is 15 minutes away and is going to a station you don't want to be at anyway ? Maybe I'll get on to some of the freesheets and see if they can shame IE into getting their act together. On a slightly lighter note - anyone for a game of broken lift bingo ? We could get assigned 5 or 6 stations (with lifts) across the network and the first to spot all their stations listed on the displays gets a prize . . . Z

07-11-2006, 11:23	#34
zag Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 199	Tara Street Southbound still broken Wasn't on the DART this AM, so can't comment on the situation today, but as of yesterday evening Tara Street Southbound was still out of action. I suppose in a weird IE kind of way, this is actually progress because they seem to have stopped the rest of the lifts from breaking and there is a 66% improvement on previous weeks performance - that's gotta be good in someones warped way of measuring service levels. Or else they have stopped reporting the out of services . . . Is there some kind of lift benchmarking thing coming up ? z

27-10-2006, 11:11	#21
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Tara Street southbound and both lifts at Grand Canal Dock are out today

29-10-2006, 11:02	#23
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Happy to confirm at 10:35 am that Tara Street south and both lifts at Grand Canal Dock are still out of order Though not confirmed it is thought that IE do not have a service contract for the lifts And I have seen the lift in Clontarf used

29-10-2006, 19:20	#24
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Both lifts in Blackrock are now broken

30-10-2006, 13:59	#25
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	At 2pm today 30-10-2006 Blackrock both lifts Grand Canal Dock both lifts Tara Street southbound lift

31-10-2006, 08:33	#26
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	At 8:30am today 31-10-2006 Grand Canal Dock both lifts Tara Street southbound lift

01-11-2006, 08:57	#27
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	At 8:55am today 1-11-2006 Grand Canal Dock both lifts Tara Street southbound lift Shankill northbound lift

02-11-2006, 10:15	#31
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Hot money is on Killiney being next This is by no means a definitive list it what I know about. Its totally pointless to have it on the platform displays, since its too late then surely it should be online ?

02-11-2006, 15:45	#32
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Breaking news Shankill and Skerries back working only for Glenageary southbound to now be broken

03-11-2006, 08:56	#33
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	At 8:55am today 3-11-2006 Tara Street southbound lift (now 1+ week broken)

07-11-2006, 12:09	#35
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	I've given up on Tara Street southbound, its been out for the last 2 weeks, its still out No other stations are effected as of 11:30 this morning

08-11-2006, 09:47	#36
zag Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 199	2 today This morning Booterstown (possibly Southbound only) rejoined the list of broken lifts. How do IE discover these lifts are out of action ? Do people regularly get stuck in them and push the alarm button, or (and I can't see this happening with the way most people carry on) does someone spend ages waiting for the lift, eventually work out it is broken, climb the stairs, go back down, go to the ticket office and report the problem ? Given the attitude of many IE customer facing staff, I know a lot of people wouldn't be bothered reporting it and would just walk out of the station. Maybe the stations that are regularly broken are the ones where the staff take the trouble to check and report, while the ones that never report as broken are the ones where nobody every checks. z

08-11-2006, 09:58	#37
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Have yet to here of someone getting trapped in the lift Word on the ground indicates software problems are a problem Should of course note when a station is unstaffed the lifts are locked up

08-11-2006, 12:31	#38
zag Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 199	Software Mark, It's interesting to hear that software is being rumoured. I ain't no software engineer, but it is fair to say that the requirements for lift operation aren't that hard to specify and code. These lifts aren't doing anything cutting edge, or pushing the envelope or any thing else like that. I say the above with a little tongue in cheek - but the simple reality is that any commercial organisation would be up in arms with their suppliers if they experienced these sorts of ongoing problems with a SIMPLE mechanical device like a lift. There must be 10,000 lifts in Dublin that don't experience these problems - why do the IE ones still experience them after many months ? It's not as if there are any weird things to be catered for - one lift per platform, two floors, one set of doors - a lift controller couldn't have a more simple job to handle. It is interesting to note that the lifts at DunLaoghaire (which has the added 'complexity' of two sets of doors on the South bound side) don't seem to fail. And the lifts at Clontarf Road also don't seem to fail. The difference between these lifts and the 'broken' ones is that they were installed long ago and weren't part of the current upgrade. z

09-11-2006, 10:07	#39
zag Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 199	Glenageary broken This morning Booterstown is back in action, but Glenageary Southbound is bust. Funny, it always seems to be the southbound platforms with the problems. Maybe they ordered a whole batch of Northbound lifts and put them on the wrong side . . . and the lifts are suffering failures as a result of stress - z

09-11-2006, 10:18	#40
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Glenageary and Tara Street southbound are gone Software engineering 101 normally starts with a simple example, a lift Will shortly be taking this matter up with senior people in IE, we are gathering evidence, this thread being part of that and various infractions of agreed accessibility rules have been noted, some of which IE have already been informed of informally

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