Tipperary on track for Irish Rail fares offer

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4793&p=116&n=237

€6 Nenagh to Limerick Super Saver Saturdays


04 April 2013

Iarnród Éireann is delighted to announce the introduction of a special €6 return super saver fare on Saturdays between Nenagh and all stations to Limerick from now until September. Get into Limerick City for just €6 return for adults and €3 return for children.

Limerick city is a hive of activity on Saturdays with the award winning Milk market in full swing and lots of other attractions to take in such as the Limerick City Art Gallery, the Hunt museum and the People’s park as well as the vibrant city shopping district.

Leave the car at home, forget about costly parking charges and take advantage of the free WiFi onboard to surf the net whilst you travel in comfort.

[comcor]

Originally Posted by James Howard

When Irish Rail upped the service frequency to 2 hourly on the Sligo line (and effectively hourly to Longford between 15:00 and 19:00), I thought they were mad as the services before then were hardly jammed. But it made a massive difference.

The same happened with the Cork-Cobh line, which saw a massive surge in numbers after they moved to a regular commuter service.

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

we have long argued that what the branch needs is a regular little two carriage service running up and down all day. We even, long ago, produced a draft timetable, the important starting point being towards Limerick.

Which again is analagous to Cork-Cobh (the line that realistically most resembles the Nenagh branch.

It's never really going to be a huge amount of use for people travelling to Dublin, but can provide a viable local commuting option.

I'm not sure the Roscrea-Ballybrophy section even needs services, but it's a short enough distance that Ballybrophy may as well be the terminus.

Once you have the regular service, you can then look at other supporting features like a P&R station near Lisnagry or Annacotty Business Park or longer term planning by allowing increased housing density near Castleconnell and Birdhill stations (we won't stay in a recession forever), but when people just expect the line to close, who will make those plans.

[Destructix]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

we have long argued that what the branch needs is a regular little two carriage service running up and down all day

That what is needed on the Waterford-Limerick line. Not a hope of IÉ doing it on either line.

Very few if any visitors come to North Tipperary for tourism by rail even on the mainline. If tourism can magically save falling passenger numbers on the Nenagh line then why doesn't Iarnród Éireann open a train station in Holycross which gets over 250,000 visitors per year the most visited attraction in North Tipperary and reopen the Gooldscross-Cashel line.

I think the NRP should focus on Limerick. Forget about Dublin and tourism heritage railways and just ask for a better commuter service between Roscrea and Limerick. You can't compete with Bus Éireann/Kavanaghs and the motorway when it comes to Dublin. Mothball it north of Roscrea and that will save a couple of grand each year in maintenance costs to use on other parts south of Roscrea-Limerick to improve journey times then the service could compete with the motorway and bus services.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

IE are very happy to use the likes of the NRG and ourselves to provide input/publicity/awareness but nothing whatsoever will get them to change the timetable as it suits managment and unions down to a tee.

I presume IE are sensible enough to know that a proper timetable might save the line, whereas continuation of the current would most likely mean it would go the same way as Wexford to Waterford. How can the possibility of this alternative in any way suit management and unions?

[dowlingm]

Cork-Cobh isn't REALLY like Limerick-Nenagh though.

1. The road from Cobh to the N25 isn't great whereas the road alternatives to Nenagh are superior end to end.
2. There's Fota
3. There's cruise ship traffic.
4. Modern signalling and double track so no issues around gatekeeper rosters and far more flexible timetabling possible.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I presume IE are sensible enough to know that a proper timetable might save the line, whereas continuation of the current would most likely mean it would go the same way as Wexford to Waterford. How can the possibility of this alternative in any way suit management and unions?

The extraordinary thing about the Limerick/Ballybrophy line (and others) is the amount of public funds which have been expended with no particular service plan or obvious objective. Contrast this with the recent renewal of Coleraine to Derry which will be followed in 2015 by the introduction of an hourly service. In the interim, on Mondays to Saturdays, pending signalling changes, there is a two hourly service from Belfast to Derry and a separate two hourly service from Belfast to Portrush giving an hourly service in each direction between Coleraine and Belfast from approximately 0600 to 2200.(There are additional Monday to Friday services giving a half hourly service towards Belfast in the morning peak and a half hourly service from Belfast in the evening peak.)

Less than ten years ago the future of this line was in serious doubt, now it is booming. While Limerick/Ballybrophy doesn't have anything like the same population base the same principles apply - provide a decent relevant service and you do business. Not much point opening a supermarket with empty shelves, same applies to a railway offering little or nothing in terms of a relevant service.

[comcor]

I doubt cruise and Fota traffic contributes more than 5% of the traffic on the line. I'll grant you the bit about the road; I believe that by a considerable margin Cobh is the largest town not on the national road network.

Really, the line should be more like Midleton, which doesn't have the tourist traffic, is single track and has a dual-carriageway into Cork, but we don't have a baseline for numbers there.

Clearly the biggest difference is that 60,000 people are trying to get into Cork City Centre every day for work or education (there's also a substantial number who go in for shopping, business and entertainment, but these are one off trips); Limerick gets less than half that number. Then again, you could have half Cobh's 24 services a day and still have something that could make people happy.

I'm also serious about incorporating P&R. Near the junction of the old Dublin Road and the current M7 would be a great location.

[Jamie2k9]

we have long argued that what the branch needs is a regular little two carriage service running up and down all day. We even, long ago, produced a draft timetable, the important starting point being towards Limerick

Wasn't it the NRP that wanted a direct service to Dublin in the mornings for people in the are.

The extraordinary thing about the Limerick/Ballybrophy line (and others) is the amount of public funds which have been expended with no particular service plan or obvious objective. Contrast this with the recent renewal of Coleraine to Derry which will be followed in 2015 by the introduction of an hourly service. In the interim, on Mondays to Saturdays, pending signalling changes, there is a two hourly service from Belfast to Derry and a separate two hourly service from Belfast to Portrush giving an hourly service in each direction between Coleraine and Belfast from approximately 0600 to 2200.(There are additional Monday to Friday services giving a half hourly service towards Belfast in the morning peak and a half hourly service from Belfast in the evening peak.)

Less than ten years ago the future of this line was in serious doubt, now it is booming. While Limerick/Ballybrophy doesn't have anything like the same population base the same principles apply - provide a decent relevant service and you do business. Not much point opening a supermarket with empty shelves, same applies to a railway offering little or nothing in terms of a relevant service.

Does the Derry line require so many gate keepers?

[Inniskeen]

There are 44 public road level crossings between Belfast and Derry !

Almost all public road level crossings are either automated (AHBs, AHBDs), centrally controlled/monitored or controlled from an adjacent signal box. There is only one location with dedicated crossing keepers and this is a temporary arrangement which commenced about two weks ago.

Main point I was making is that if you plough tax payers money into infrastructure, you either produce some useful return or at least have plans to do so.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Cork-Cobh isn't REALLY like Limerick-Nenagh though.

1. The road from Cobh to the N25 isn't great whereas the road alternatives to Nenagh are superior end to end.
2. There's Fota
3. There's cruise ship traffic.
4. Modern signalling and double track so no issues around gatekeeper rosters and far more flexible timetabling possible.

Indeed and town of 10,000+ connected to city of 180,000 which is only 20km away, with an industrial area in the middle and a branch to Carrigtwohill and Midleton. Railway is shorter and quicker than road.

Cobh is more like the north Dublin coastal towns.

[Mark Gleeson]

Cork local services on paper the least lost making per passenger carried of any service

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Cork local services on paper the least lost making per passenger carried of any service

If East Cork non-Expressway 240/241/260/261 services (Ballycotton, Cloyne, Whitegate etc) connected with the train rather than running down the N25 alongside it maybe it could make more still, or at least left the City Centre trade to the train and instead concentrated on UCC/CIT/Cork Airport/Mahon Point type destinations via the Jack Lynch tunnel that rail will never work for, and some buses serving East Cork relocated to Midleton with early morning Cork City Centre-East Cork villages connecting off the train.

But we don't do joinedyuppy transport in Ireland...

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by comcor

I'm not sure the Roscrea-Ballybrophy section even needs services, but it's a short enough distance that Ballybrophy may as well be the terminus.

if using Portlaoise Rail Depot, you have BB as the terminius, and there are some who even on the curent timetable hope from BB to Roscrea, and Roscrea to other places.

Originally Posted by Destructix

Very few if any visitors come to North Tipperary for tourism by rail even on the mainline. If tourism can magically save falling passenger numbers on the Nenagh line then why doesn't Iarnród Éireann open a train station in Holycross which gets over 250,000 visitors per year the most visited attraction in North Tipperary and reopen the Gooldscross-Cashel line.

this is true, but nobody is saying tourism is a magic bullet, and anyway the coach market has tourism fairly well sown up. It is no harm in trying to poach some of that market though as cheaply as possible.

Originally Posted by Eddie

I presume IE are sensible enough to know that a proper timetable might save the line, whereas continuation of the current would most likely mean it would go the same way as Wexford to Waterford. How can the possibility of this alternative in any way suit management and unions?

current situation is organised out of limerick, new situation would have to be operated out of portloaise.

[dowlingm]

As long as the line is manually signalled there is a high labour cost and as long as line speeds remain low the bus is going to murder rail because it can deliver more direct service to UL/Plassey Tech Park and Limerick city centre. Rail has virtually no outstanding use case in the Dublin-Roscrea-Limerick corridor - that's not me being pejorative, it's a fact.

NTA Journey Planner Limerick Train Station-Roscrea
BUS12 0529 0657 88min
RAIL 0630 0832 122min*
BUS12 0729 0842 73min
BUS12 0829 0957 88min

* 12mins of the train time involves walking from the station into town.

Until public transport in Ireland is recast into a complementary rather than cutthroat environment I don't see how a service like Nenagh finds a niche.

[Destructix]

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/attach...d=138039024 8

Is this a last ditch attempt to save the line?

[comcor]

Save the line or kill yields on the line to ensure its closure?

[Jamie2k9]

comcor

there would have to be good yield in the first place for the line to lose it. This will make no difference, people still won't use it.

The line is past saving and the local catchment area have had chance after chance to save the line and didn't bother so closure will happen unless the Government was willing to cover the total losses and the chances of this happening would be very slim.

[Thomas J Stamp]

its down to the timetable, it is not relevant to anyone. therefore its not relevant to anyone and their free friend.

[Jamie2k9]

Our friend Alan Kelly was speaking in Nenagh celebrating 150 years on railway to the town. Would be good if anyone has audio of what he said.

IE even tweeted about it, not very often a railway line without some point of it serving Dublin gets mentioned by IE.

[Thomas J Stamp]

there was/is free trains to promote the route and celebrate the anniversary.

not sure how it went down.