The Cork Dublin Express Train has entered service - Page 13

Mark Gleeson · 19-09-2006, 14:50

Back in the old days it was ok since there was no safety police and also the fact you needed to stick your head out the window mean't you couldn't help noticing the lack of a platform.

I have a list of issues to go in about the Mk4 and to be honest at this stage its amazing it still moves

Thomas J Stamp · 19-09-2006, 15:11

I know of one person who broke their leg falling out of a carriage in the good old days.

Mark Gleeson · 19-09-2006, 15:32

Its a suprisingly long way to the ground and most people don't climb down correctly that said the newer coaches lack a proper set of steps, hell I remember the days of climbing out a Mk2 at platform 1 in Heuston

Portarlington is nasty since Dublin bound there is a bridge, Cork bound you are faced with a heap of track.

Templemore Cork bound is bliss a perfect flat wide strip

Legally IE are in trouble with the Mk4 and short platforms infact there are no notices on board whch give the check you are at a platform before getting out

Navan Junction · 19-09-2006, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean

avoiding the weight of the Shinners and rest of the linguistic fascist brigade down on their necks.

I'd say that there are more Irish speakers in FF than SF, and I'm not sure fascist is a fair description of those that want to use the native Irish language..

My two cents, and apologies, back on topic..

MrX · 20-09-2006, 07:51

I know someone else who had her foot badly injured by a MK3 door quite a few years ago. It seems they lack the usually mandatory "beeping alert" and also I wouldn't like to test their ability to recognise your foot!

Quite a few questionable design issues in the older rolling stock too !

The MK4 undoubtedly has a lot of snags that will need to be resolved. I'm sure this is the best time to do that though. The more feedback that goes back to CAF the better.

I'm still flabbergahsted that they didn't put sockets for laptops into the standard class areas. Surely it's standard in 2006 ?! They're only in CityGold. Not every business traveller will pay the premium for the service. Not to mention students etc. Little features like that give the train a major advantage over the bus.

Mark Gleeson · 21-09-2006, 19:55

Looks like another one got broke today, a set appeared in Connolly this evening

Only reason they come to Connolly is for repair of suspension faults, don't even ask why Inchicore can't handle that

Rashers · 21-09-2006, 20:50

Speaking of lab-tops - I seen a foreign student on a DART during the summer with his PC connected (via the usual intl adapter) to the power socket at the end of a DART...I have to admire his ingenuity

Mark Gleeson · 21-09-2006, 20:59

Seen it before, all Japanese units come with 4 sockets per coach, the Alstom units come with one at each coach end, they are provided for cleaners, many a phone charger I've seen plugged in

Mk3 coaches have a socket in the luggage rack, the Mk2d has a funny socket but if you plug in it is live no idea what voltage but laptop adaptors don't care

I have yet to find the sockets on a Mk4 the luggage rack drew a blank

MrX · 23-09-2006, 18:04

I suspect that they're behind a panel somewhere as they do seem to get on with the normal hoovers.

Oisin88 · 24-09-2006, 20:10

Was on the new train myself today from Cork. Bit shakey at times but otherwise grand.

We were booked into carriage A but because we were standard class and apparently something happened to the computer booking system we had to go hunt for our own seats down the back of the train. Should we consider ourselves lucky to sit back there and get a smoother ride?

Mark Gleeson · 26-09-2006, 15:40

Consider yourself lucky you did not choose the 19:30 ex Cork, the seat booking issue is still there since no one seems to have a clue which train type will run each service

Remember if you book and are left standing, get the train manager to initial the ticket and claim your full refund inline with the charter its the only way IE are going to learn

MrX · 26-09-2006, 20:59

Oisin,

Some of them ride very smoothly. It's definitely an "on-going issue" rather than something direly wrong with the entire fleet. In my personal experience of the MK4 as a passenger, the ride's been quite ok. Perhaps a little harder than MK3, but nothing shockingly bad.

I think however, there's no harm in reporting every bumpy ride issue at this stage as it's the best time for IE to resolve problems.

Also, I am sure that feedback can only be beneficial.

I would suggest that forum members who happen to ride the CDE would give their coach number and a brief description of any ride issues etc on a thread on these boards. This way the info could perhaps be fedback to IE on a regular basis to make sure that the "dodgy coches" are looked into!

I honestly think that long term these trains will be a major improvement on the Cork line.

The coach numbers are clearly printed in the gangways above the door as well as on the coach exteriors. Just stick the number into your phone / scribble it down and report any major bumpiness.

Mark Gleeson · 26-09-2006, 21:05

A coach number would be handy but dont go trainspotter on us.

We know coaches 4003, 4203, 4403, 4111-4115 are dreadful. Avoid coach G the one next to the engine at all costs

All I can say is that tonights 21:00 Dublin Cork is giving it loads of sway

Brian.Stokes · 27-09-2006, 10:15

Hi Lads,

I was on 'C' coach on the 21.00 Dublin to Cork last night. I think the coach number was 4109. I could be wrong but thats what i think it was.

We didn't leave until 21.12 from Heuston due to a 'technical issue'. It sounded like one of the doors wouldn't close properly.

Train Host made regular announcements apologising for delay and promised to keep us updated. So there i was sitting down thinking that this wasn't too bad and that everyone was getting an unlucky trip on these trains.

To those i doubted i apologise now, we got past inchicore, and i heard a friend of mine at the back of the carriage (it was a very empty carriage).
So i got up and walked over to her. I have travelled a lot on all sorts of trains here and abroad and i must say i was sure i was going to fall over several times. The train feels as if its driving of a track that was not built for the wheels. It's a tough one to explain but there was a real 'hard' feel to the movement. The train just doesn't seem to 'fit' hopefully it will "break in".

After talking to my friend i went to get a tea and meet some people from Limerick who all agreed that the train was very 'rough' and uncomfortable. Those people were sitting back by the snack carriage which was alot more jumpy than my carriage.

To be honest in parts it was as comfortable as travelling to Waterford from Limerick Junction

PIS and cleanliness were all spot on and make me feel we may be getting "there". As long as those standards are kept up people will enjoy the journey.

I then jumped off and switched to the Commuter service to Limerick and all though louder, dirtier and that feeling of moving at faster then the speed of sound it was more comfortable overall than the majority of my journey on Mark IV.

I hope this gives some more feedback on the trip but i can't help but think that things will get better and we may have turned a corner on rail travel for the average traveller in this country.

Mark Gleeson · 27-09-2006, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian.Stokes

I was on 'C' coach on the 21.00 Dublin to Cork last night. I think the coach number was 4109. I could be wrong but thats what i think it was.

Thats set 2 which is considered smoother than some others

Quote:

We didn't leave until 21.12 from Heuston due to a 'technical issue'. It sounded like one of the doors wouldn't close properly.

Most technical faults occur Dublin bound it appears, you get brake problems mainly on departure never had a door problem reported but the doors do look a bit weak

Quote:

Train Host made regular announcements apologising for delay and promised to keep us updated. So there i was sitting down thinking that this wasn't too bad and that everyone was getting an unlucky trip on these trains.

Can't fault the on train service end its a big improvement

Quote:

The train feels as if its driving of a track that was not built for the wheels. It's a tough one to explain but there was a real 'hard' feel to the movement. The train just doesn't seem to 'fit' hopefully it will "break in".

Before it was broken in the ride was actually quite nice

Quote:

To be honest in parts it was as comfortable as travelling to Waterford from Limerick Junction

Quote:

PIS and cleanliness were all spot on and make me feel we may be getting "there". As long as those standards are kept up people will enjoy the journey.

Its a great train once you are not moving

Quote:

I hope this gives some more feedback on the trip but i can't help but think that things will get better and we may have turned a corner on rail travel for the average traveller in this country.

Cheers Brian, feedback is essential the more we have the better bargaining position, we are seeing patterns now, even with limited data we know the Mk4 train is in serious trouble. Like everything in this country its half arsed, train looks great once you don't look at the Cork end, the interior is nice and so on but the ride is utterly dire

I've got 8 significant incidents of delay for the Mk4 train reported this month, thats against it running about 220 services this month so far, 6 of those incidents where directly related to it being a Mk4, 5 related to a incident of technical failure of the coaches. The reliability figure comes in at about one incident per 6000 miles to make sense of that the rather more complex railcars used in Dublin manage 30,000 miles, DART 80,000 miles

Mark Gleeson · 03-10-2006, 18:17

6000 mpc is about right I hear

The hot news is the is one modified coach with the better suspension in service, we have no idea which coach which train

James Shields · 11-10-2006, 20:48

6000 miles sounds pretty disasterous, alright. I'd like to suggest that it's just teething problems, but they've probably had the longest testing period of any train in the country, and the 29Ks have been bullet-proof pretty much since day 1. On top of that, the Enterprise coaches have had teething problems since they were introduced ten years ago, and they're still not resolved.

How do the Mk3's compare? That would be a fairer comparison than EMUs or DMUs.

Shall we be sending an expedition to find the modified coach?

Mark Gleeson · 12-10-2006, 14:17

6000 MPC not bad really but still a railcar is infinitely more complex. These are not show stoppers but things like sticky doors and trouble with parking brakes enough to hold you up for a few minutes

We have no stats on the Mk3 but I've never experienced a single failure on a Mk3, its always worked, no dodgy brakes, no failed suspension so its clearly waaaaaaaaay better

We don't know which coach it is, and since sets swap around we can't pick it out. From what I know its a standard class coach and might be number 4142

comcor · 12-10-2006, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

6000 MPC not bad really but still a railcar is infinitely more complex. These are not show stoppers but things like sticky doors and trouble with parking brakes enough to hold you up for a few minutes

We have no stats on the Mk3 but I've never experienced a single failure on a Mk3, its always worked, no dodgy brakes, no failed suspension so its clearly waaaaaaaaay better

We don't know which coach it is, and since sets swap around we can't pick it out. From what I know its a standard class coach and might be number 4142

I spent 3 years travelling Cork-Dublin return every week and I only ever had a single breakdown because of the Mark III coaches.

MrX · 13-10-2006, 13:41

The parking brake issue seems to be a problem for the enterprise, I wonder if the control panel on the 201 is the common issue here rather than the coaches themselves?

The 201 doesn't really have to interact much with the MK3 coaches, it just pulls them and applies air brakes. It's not very complex
The relationship with the CDE or Enterprise sets is a bit more complex in so far as they've parking brakes and other systems on board.

While the failures on the MK3 weren't generally bad enough to stop the train I've seen plenty:

1) Air con / heating - very very regularly fails or is set up incorrectly so that you've a very uncomfortable journey.
2) Internal doors, invariably broken down or locked out making the a/c problems worse + adding a lot of noise.
3) I had a light fitting fall on my head in the doorway area of a MK3 recently. Not heavy enough to do any damage though, just a plastic light shade type thing.
4) The lights all went out when we left platform 11 at heuston as the train took a sharp turn. Seemed like a loose connector between coaches.
5) Intercom systems rarely work properly
6) I've seen doors stick and have to be reclosed quite a few times. Apparently the MK3 doors were highly problematic when they were first introduced. They've calmed down though since.
7) I have been on a MK3 where the suspension seemed dodgy. Ended up with a very bumpy ride like as if a damper had failed or something.
8) I wittnessed a member of staff being hit in the head by a falling door in the dining car one day. It looked extremely painful. A hinged door that closes up the bar area seemed to fall open on his head. (Poor design / poor modification of the original design.. either way it was dangerous)

Just to add a bit of balance to the argument

The MK3s ain't perfect either !

19-09-2006, 15:11	#242
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	I know of one person who broke their leg falling out of a carriage in the good old days. __________________ We are the passengers

21-09-2006, 20:50	#247
Rashers Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 431	DART Speaking of lab-tops - I seen a foreign student on a DART during the summer with his PC connected (via the usual intl adapter) to the power socket at the end of a DART...I have to admire his ingenuity

26-09-2006, 21:05	#253
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	A coach number would be handy but dont go trainspotter on us. We know coaches 4003, 4203, 4403, 4111-4115 are dreadful. Avoid coach G the one next to the engine at all costs All I can say is that tonights 21:00 Dublin Cork is giving it loads of sway Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 27-09-2006 at 10:13.

13-10-2006, 13:41	#260
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	The parking brake issue seems to be a problem for the enterprise, I wonder if the control panel on the 201 is the common issue here rather than the coaches themselves? The 201 doesn't really have to interact much with the MK3 coaches, it just pulls them and applies air brakes. It's not very complex The relationship with the CDE or Enterprise sets is a bit more complex in so far as they've parking brakes and other systems on board. While the failures on the MK3 weren't generally bad enough to stop the train I've seen plenty: 1) Air con / heating - very very regularly fails or is set up incorrectly so that you've a very uncomfortable journey. 2) Internal doors, invariably broken down or locked out making the a/c problems worse + adding a lot of noise. 3) I had a light fitting fall on my head in the doorway area of a MK3 recently. Not heavy enough to do any damage though, just a plastic light shade type thing. 4) The lights all went out when we left platform 11 at heuston as the train took a sharp turn. Seemed like a loose connector between coaches. 5) Intercom systems rarely work properly 6) I've seen doors stick and have to be reclosed quite a few times. Apparently the MK3 doors were highly problematic when they were first introduced. They've calmed down though since. 7) I have been on a MK3 where the suspension seemed dodgy. Ended up with a very bumpy ride like as if a damper had failed or something. 8) I wittnessed a member of staff being hit in the head by a falling door in the dining car one day. It looked extremely painful. A hinged door that closes up the bar area seemed to fall open on his head. (Poor design / poor modification of the original design.. either way it was dangerous) Just to add a bit of balance to the argument The MK3s ain't perfect either ! Last edited by MrX : 13-10-2006 at 13:44.

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19-09-2006, 14:50	#241
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Back in the old days it was ok since there was no safety police and also the fact you needed to stick your head out the window mean't you couldn't help noticing the lack of a platform. I have a list of issues to go in about the Mk4 and to be honest at this stage its amazing it still moves

19-09-2006, 15:32	#243
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its a suprisingly long way to the ground and most people don't climb down correctly that said the newer coaches lack a proper set of steps, hell I remember the days of climbing out a Mk2 at platform 1 in Heuston Portarlington is nasty since Dublin bound there is a bridge, Cork bound you are faced with a heap of track. Templemore Cork bound is bliss a perfect flat wide strip Legally IE are in trouble with the Mk4 and short platforms infact there are no notices on board whch give the check you are at a platform before getting out

20-09-2006, 07:51	#245
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	I know someone else who had her foot badly injured by a MK3 door quite a few years ago. It seems they lack the usually mandatory "beeping alert" and also I wouldn't like to test their ability to recognise your foot! Quite a few questionable design issues in the older rolling stock too ! The MK4 undoubtedly has a lot of snags that will need to be resolved. I'm sure this is the best time to do that though. The more feedback that goes back to CAF the better. I'm still flabbergahsted that they didn't put sockets for laptops into the standard class areas. Surely it's standard in 2006 ?! They're only in CityGold. Not every business traveller will pay the premium for the service. Not to mention students etc. Little features like that give the train a major advantage over the bus.

21-09-2006, 19:55	#246
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Looks like another one got broke today, a set appeared in Connolly this evening Only reason they come to Connolly is for repair of suspension faults, don't even ask why Inchicore can't handle that

21-09-2006, 20:59	#248
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Seen it before, all Japanese units come with 4 sockets per coach, the Alstom units come with one at each coach end, they are provided for cleaners, many a phone charger I've seen plugged in Mk3 coaches have a socket in the luggage rack, the Mk2d has a funny socket but if you plug in it is live no idea what voltage but laptop adaptors don't care I have yet to find the sockets on a Mk4 the luggage rack drew a blank

23-09-2006, 18:04	#249
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	I suspect that they're behind a panel somewhere as they do seem to get on with the normal hoovers.

24-09-2006, 20:10	#250
Oisin88 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dublin Posts: 608	Was on the new train myself today from Cork. Bit shakey at times but otherwise grand. We were booked into carriage A but because we were standard class and apparently something happened to the computer booking system we had to go hunt for our own seats down the back of the train. Should we consider ourselves lucky to sit back there and get a smoother ride?

26-09-2006, 15:40	#251
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Consider yourself lucky you did not choose the 19:30 ex Cork, the seat booking issue is still there since no one seems to have a clue which train type will run each service Remember if you book and are left standing, get the train manager to initial the ticket and claim your full refund inline with the charter its the only way IE are going to learn

26-09-2006, 20:59	#252
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Oisin, Some of them ride very smoothly. It's definitely an "on-going issue" rather than something direly wrong with the entire fleet. In my personal experience of the MK4 as a passenger, the ride's been quite ok. Perhaps a little harder than MK3, but nothing shockingly bad. I think however, there's no harm in reporting every bumpy ride issue at this stage as it's the best time for IE to resolve problems. Also, I am sure that feedback can only be beneficial. I would suggest that forum members who happen to ride the CDE would give their coach number and a brief description of any ride issues etc on a thread on these boards. This way the info could perhaps be fedback to IE on a regular basis to make sure that the "dodgy coches" are looked into! I honestly think that long term these trains will be a major improvement on the Cork line. The coach numbers are clearly printed in the gangways above the door as well as on the coach exteriors. Just stick the number into your phone / scribble it down and report any major bumpiness.

27-09-2006, 10:15	#254
Brian.Stokes Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Limerick Posts: 14	Hi Lads, I was on 'C' coach on the 21.00 Dublin to Cork last night. I think the coach number was 4109. I could be wrong but thats what i think it was. We didn't leave until 21.12 from Heuston due to a 'technical issue'. It sounded like one of the doors wouldn't close properly. Train Host made regular announcements apologising for delay and promised to keep us updated. So there i was sitting down thinking that this wasn't too bad and that everyone was getting an unlucky trip on these trains. To those i doubted i apologise now, we got past inchicore, and i heard a friend of mine at the back of the carriage (it was a very empty carriage). So i got up and walked over to her. I have travelled a lot on all sorts of trains here and abroad and i must say i was sure i was going to fall over several times. The train feels as if its driving of a track that was not built for the wheels. It's a tough one to explain but there was a real 'hard' feel to the movement. The train just doesn't seem to 'fit' hopefully it will "break in". After talking to my friend i went to get a tea and meet some people from Limerick who all agreed that the train was very 'rough' and uncomfortable. Those people were sitting back by the snack carriage which was alot more jumpy than my carriage. To be honest in parts it was as comfortable as travelling to Waterford from Limerick Junction PIS and cleanliness were all spot on and make me feel we may be getting "there". As long as those standards are kept up people will enjoy the journey. I then jumped off and switched to the Commuter service to Limerick and all though louder, dirtier and that feeling of moving at faster then the speed of sound it was more comfortable overall than the majority of my journey on Mark IV. I hope this gives some more feedback on the trip but i can't help but think that things will get better and we may have turned a corner on rail travel for the average traveller in this country.

03-10-2006, 18:17	#256
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	6000 mpc is about right I hear The hot news is the is one modified coach with the better suspension in service, we have no idea which coach which train

11-10-2006, 20:48	#257
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	6000 miles sounds pretty disasterous, alright. I'd like to suggest that it's just teething problems, but they've probably had the longest testing period of any train in the country, and the 29Ks have been bullet-proof pretty much since day 1. On top of that, the Enterprise coaches have had teething problems since they were introduced ten years ago, and they're still not resolved. How do the Mk3's compare? That would be a fairer comparison than EMUs or DMUs. Shall we be sending an expedition to find the modified coach?

12-10-2006, 14:17	#258
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	6000 MPC not bad really but still a railcar is infinitely more complex. These are not show stoppers but things like sticky doors and trouble with parking brakes enough to hold you up for a few minutes We have no stats on the Mk3 but I've never experienced a single failure on a Mk3, its always worked, no dodgy brakes, no failed suspension so its clearly waaaaaaaaay better We don't know which coach it is, and since sets swap around we can't pick it out. From what I know its a standard class coach and might be number 4142