Irish Rail will not run an extra Wicklow/Wexford train

[Traincustomer]

Irish Rail will not run an extra Wicklow/Wexford train at rush hour, according to its response to a request by the council.

The company's chief executive Jim Meade wrote to Wicklow County Council about the matter, according to Cllr Derek Mitchell in Greystones

'The N11 is jammed and the rail line virtually empty because of the poor service,' said Cllr Mitchell.

These would leave Greystones at either 7.22 a.m. or 8.22 a.m.

This would effectively double the capacity of the rail line from Kilcoole south but has now been refused. 'I think the real reason they refused is they want to give priority to County Dublin services over County Wicklow which they see as a nuisance

From source at: https://www.independent.ie/regionals...-36865917.html

Money or no money for additional services it is increasingly apparent that there is an overwhelming antipathy towards this line and others amongst the powers that be.

[Jamie2k9]

Money or no money for additional services it is increasingly apparent that there is an overwhelming antipathy towards this line and others amongst the powers that be.

While service levels are not great off peak, peak service is comparable with most of the network (South of Graystones). Commuter towns on Sligo and Waterford have up to 4 service by 10.00, Rosslare has 3 and if you were to add a service to fit in with other route schedules it would be departing at 06.00 and it wouldn't exactly be useful.

What most people forget is an extra service also requires a return service at a minimum and its costly.

Surly IE could squeeze in an extra DART from Graystones at peak hours is is the single track at capacity?

Its also very hard to buy the councils argument, if they did more research and provided evidence an extra service would free up the N11 they may have a case.

[Traincustomer]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Its also very hard to buy the councils argument, if they did more research and provided evidence an extra service would free up the N11 they may have a case.

Ought it not to be IÉ and the NTA doing research of this nature?

[Mark Gleeson]

Its possible to get a 0815 arrival at Connolly, that would require a further train southwards in the evening

The reality is Bray Greystones is a huge risk and any delay has serious impacts.

Best option is to make the current trains longer, no extra staff costs

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

From source at: https://www.independent.ie/regionals...-36865917.html

Money or no money for additional services it is increasingly apparent that there is an overwhelming antipathy towards this line and others amongst the powers that be.

So what service elsewhere on the network would you shorten/cancel to provide the rolling stock for such an additional service?

Not sure what increasingly apparent evidence there is of antipathy towards the line you think there is - the reality is that there’s no spare rolling stock to operate an extra peak hour service.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

Ought it not to be IÉ and the NTA doing research of this nature?

Perhaps but I think the research would conclude another service wouldn't make a massive amount of difference to usage.

The council should work with the NTA to make the case as they will be funding any extra service.

So what service elsewhere on the network would you shorten/cancel to provide the rolling stock for such an additional service?

Not sure what increasingly apparent evidence there is of antipathy towards the line you think there is - the reality is that there’s no spare rolling stock to operate an extra peak hour service.

To be fair, IE don't exactly make an effort to improve the line and existing services.

Its possible to get a 0815 arrival at Connolly, that would require a further train southwards in the evening

The reality is Bray Greystones is a huge risk and any delay has serious impacts.

Best option is to make the current trains longer, no extra staff costs

Any idea what it can typically handle per hour in terms of movements?

[berneyarms]

Bray - Greystones can handle two DARTs in each direction per hour plus up to two additional services, which are normally used for the DSE Line services) - that’s the max operationally that you would deem possible.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its 2 DART + 1, actually as a DART would occupy a platform at Greystones

You could have 6 trains an hour in a single direction, probably even 8 but thats no help.

Extra trains are not happening, a few extra carriages on the current services, which already have very attractive timings.

[Traincustomer]

On 1st June the Rosslare line is dealt another blow with the introduction of a new bus route (with up to nine services in each direction daily) by a private operator Gorey - Arklow - Wicklow - city - Airport.

Business has already been abstracted in my opinion (and that of many others) by the Local Link bus at the Rosslare end.

The NTA come across as increasingly pro-bus and clearly appear to have no will to improve rural/regional rail.

Closure by stealth?

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

On 1st June the Rosslare line is dealt another blow with the introduction of a new bus route (with up to nine services in each direction daily) by a private operator Gorey - Arklow - Wicklow - city - Airport.

Business has already been abstracted in my opinion (and that of many others) by the Local Link bus at the Rosslare end.

The NTA come across as increasingly pro-bus and clearly appear to have no will to improve rural/regional rail.

Closure by stealth?

Bit difficult to add trains when there’s damn all spare rolling stock. I think you may be engaging in a bit of hyperbole here.

The Local Link services are an important addition across the country and frankly should have happened years ago.

I’m not sure how you think Wexford Bus can be stopped from adding a commercial bus service?

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Bit difficult to add trains when there’s damn all spare rolling stock. I think you may be engaging in a bit of hyperbole here.

The Local Link services are an important addition across the country and frankly should have happened years ago.

I’m not sure how you think Wexford Bus can be stopped from adding a commercial bus service?

I'm sorry if IE really wanted to add another service they could find rolling stock however its currently to costly to add an extra service but its not impossible.

[Inniskeen]

The N11 corridor has become a very busy commuter route. Sadly the railway is now barely relevant due to poor service frequency, limited seating capacity and tediously slow journey times especially on the portion of the route shared with DART. It appears more likely to be partially closed than developed.

What is the strategy for the line ? Does either the operator or the NTA have any vision or ambition for the future ?

The contrast with the Belfast/Derry line is instructive, similar length, similar infrastructure. One is booming, the other limps on with little promise of improvement.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

The N11 corridor has become a very busy commuter route. Sadly the railway is now barely relevant due to poor service frequency, limited seating capacity and tediously slow journey times especially on the portion of the route shared with DART. It appears more likely to be partially closed than developed.

What is the strategy for the line ? Does either the operator or the NTA have any vision or ambition for the future ?

The contrast with the Belfast/Derry line is instructive, similar length, similar infrastructure. One is booming, the other limps on with little promise of improvement.

I'm not sure I agree that the infrastructure is similar. I traveled on the Derry / Belfast line just over a year ago. My recollection is that Belfast to Coleraine is double tracked - about two thirds of the distance, allowing a 30 minute service. This section was very busy. This is like double tracking the distance from Dublin to Enniscorthy. It also didn't have an additional suburban service blocking the line. The section from Coleraine to Derry is pretty straight, with just 2 stops. The whole Belfast to Derry journey takes about 2 hours.

It would require a massive investment to upgrade the line to Rosslare to double track it as far as Enniscorthy and avoid being slowed down by the DART.

People make pretty simple travel decisions based on what they know about the available options. If there's a quick train option into Dublin, they will use it. If it's quicker to go by road they will do that instead.

[ACustomer]

Eddie: Belfast to Coleraine is single track from about 6 miles outside Belfast. (It used to be double as far as Ballymena). What makes the present service on the Derry line so good is the absence of a very intensive and slow suburban service like the DART getting in the way of everything.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Eddie: Belfast to Coleraine is single track from about 6 miles outside Belfast. (It used to be double as far as Ballymena). What makes the present service on the Derry line so good is the absence of a very intensive and slow suburban service like the DART getting in the way of everything.

Apologies, in fact looks like there's an hourly service, Belfast to Coleraine (not every 30 minutes as I first thought) with a connecting service to Portrush which makes a single line possible.

That means you just need 30km of single track to be laid between Dublin and Greystones (with the odd passing place), cutting the investment required significantly to get the significant benefit improvements to the rest of the line.

[Inniskeen]

In fact Belfast to Coleraine has a half-hourly service during the morning and evening peak !