Longford services (all stops): Any point to it

ThomasJ · 21-10-2007, 01:01

I noticed recently that there are never any decent passenger numbers on the Maynooth-Longford stage of the services that call at all stops between connolly and longford.

When looking at the journey planner on the irish rail website I noticed that there was a 17.05 that runs non-stop to mullingar and onwards to edgeworthstown and longford. It takes 1hrs 38mins to get whereas the 17.15 (yes 10 minutes later) to Longford takes just under 2hrs 10mins. Is there any pont to the 17.15 all stations? why is this in place? Is there a sudden surge in passenger numbers for mullingar/longford between 17.05 and 17.15? Why would someone want to take a longer journey?

Its the same with the 18.00hrs to longford (skips maynooth commuter stations) which takes 1 hr 38 mins which is followed 17 mins later by the 18.17 all stations to longford which takes just under 2 hrs 10mins. Is there any point to this?

I just find it strange that its a waste of 2 eight-car sets that could be used better. what do you think?

What are passenger numbers like on the all-stops?
Should the 17.15 and 18.17 be evened out to 17.30 and 18.30, or is there any point to them even going to longford?
Should the all-stops be curtailed to maynooth or enfield and more non-stops to longford appear?
What about morning services?
Should the Sligo early bird return along with a direct service from longford?
again curtailing the all-stops back to maynooth or even enfield?

Mark Gleeson · 21-10-2007, 13:53

The 17:15 is well used

The 18:00 really shouldn't be there, the locals in Longford got all angry when IE swapped the old 18:00 to Sligo and replaced with a 17:05 and 19:05 to Sligo so not content with an extra fast train they wanted to keep the old one as well

Not really a sensible idea and split capacity in a inefficient manner and adds a train movement across the worst part of Connolly slowing everyone down, that said the 18:00 seems to leave Connolly with people standing

ThomasJ · 21-10-2007, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The 17:15 is well used

Really? I know that the 17.05 connolly/sligo doesn't serve Kilcock and Enfield but for the remainder of stops I thought passengers would've preferred to get home quicker rather than having to stop at all stations.

Do you think it should stay at 17.15hrs? I just think that if those services are to remain they should be evened out so there is a train to longford every 30 minutes between 17.00 and 19.00

And · 21-10-2007, 18:13

I agree, I would have thought that a 10 min gap between the "fast" (1705) and "all stops" (1715) services to Longford doesn't make sense...surely better to spread out the capacity bit better. More generally, there are 2 "fast" peak services to Longford in the evening (1705 and 1800) and none in the morning. This surely needs to be addressed in the new Dec '07 timetable. Having both morning Longford services stopping at all stations to Connolly means very uncompetitive journey times for long-distance commuters and very packed trains for Maynooth line commuters, and also increases the risk of service delays to the Maynooth trains. Surely the time has now come - given the extra carriages entering service soon - to separate out at least one of these morning services e.g. defer the current 620 ex Longford by 10 mins to 630 so it arrives at Maynooth at say 743, and allow it continue onwards to Connolly with just one or two stops (e.g. at a D15 station and Dcondra) along the way, arriving at 820. The current 7:36 from Maynooth (which originates in Longford) should now start at Maynooth, departing at say 734, all-stops to Pearse, arriving Connolly at 8:15.

Mark Gleeson · 23-10-2007, 09:54

Its 14 miles to Maynooth and you can't run non stop with other trains in the way, its getting quite packed in the mornings

The whole Longford thing is quite crazy, it makes little sense to provide 5 rush hour services in the evening

Stuck in the middle we find Mullingar which could do with those 5 rush hour services, Longford at most deserves a train every hour at peak time, Longford if anything is dragging the whole thing down and IE are going to punish everyone west of Maynooth as a result in December

John J · 23-10-2007, 20:14

The 18.17 to Longford definitely appears pointless.
The one time I caught this service to Longford I recall having four cars of a 29K set to myself for the last ten minutes, which was quite a surreal experience!
Hardly surprising though considering the train takes well over 2 hours and has an 11 minute layover in Mullingar.

The reason why this train runs to Longford seems to be that 8 cars need to go down to form the morning return service.
The following alternative was obviously beyond the reasoning of IE:
18.00 - run as an 8 car set instead of a 4 car, and overnight in Longford instead of returning to Dublin at 20.50 (doubt anyone uses that service anyway)
18.17 - run as a 4 car set terminating in Maynooth or Enfield

But IE would rather operate pointless services like the 18.17 to Longford, instead of providing us with a decent morning service, or a late evening train for commuters working late or socialising after work...

And · 23-10-2007, 20:14

Granted the morning schedule is pretty packed so a non-stop Longford service from Maynooth wouldn't be able to make Connolly in 25/30 mins without potentially impacting other services...however, stopping the 620 train at all stations from Maynooth is the other extreme, where both Longford and Maynooth commuters suffer, due to (a) a very packed train (b) slower journey times (from Longford) and (c) a less reliable/prompt Maynooth service, as a delay to this early and important train can have serious impacts for the rest of the peak morning schedule. The Gorey service is separated from most DART stations and I think the same move should now be made to at least this morning Longford service given the hugely increased number of commuters from Maynooth (perhaps leaving 07:00 ex-Longford as all-stops at least for the time being) - as a compromise, with this service stopping at two or maybe three stations along the way from Maynooth, with a journey time of say 37ish mins to Connolly. My 2 cent, sure worth thinking about anyway. Thanks.

KSW · 23-10-2007, 21:23

I know excatly want you mean. I live in Gorey and the first two trains from the town to Dublin both take 2hrs. From Bray onwards the train just crawls along. Maynooth to Connolly is about the same distance from Bray to Connolly but yet the Gorey/Rosslare services take over 40mins. Longford-Edgeworthstown-Mullingar-Enfield-Kilcock-Maynooth-Connolly-Tara St-Pearse you would love but unforunatly there will be passengers from Longford etc. getting off after Maynooth and Connolly. Its the same as the Gorey services People will either have to get off and connect from there to where-ever... I KNOW,I KNOW U WISH THERE WAS DIRECT SERVICES FROM MAYNOOTH TO CONNOLLY, U ME BOTH. But when it comes down to it Iarnrod Eireann could reduce the times if they look hard enough.............................

ThomasJ · 25-10-2007, 14:05

If a 9 0'clock train to sligo was to be introduced Could the early bird be brought back as a concession to cutting back the first morning service ex longford to maynooth. It worked monday mornings when the early bird used to run.

ThomasJ · 29-10-2007, 15:48

Surely the 17.15 is only of benefit to Kilcock and Enfield passengers for a 10 minute gap between services (non-stop and all stops) there wouldn't be much passengers around. Does it also point out the inbalance of resources between morning and evening peak hour services - due to people using later services and that more resources should be put into later services.

Peak hour Maynooth/longford should be adjusted so that there is a gap of around 30 minutes between services otherwise the longford services are screwed. something like this:

17:00 Connolly Sligo

17:05 Connolly Maynooth (new service)

17:20 Connolly Maynooth (17:28 brought forward)

17:35 Connolly Longford (17:15 put back)

17:50 Connolly Maynooth (17:44 put back)

18:00 Connolly Longford

18:05 Connolly Maynooth

18:20 Connolly Maynooth (18:37 brought forward)

18:37 Connolly Longford (18:17 put back)

They are Connolly departure times whatever times through services depart from pearse etc.

What do you think?

SardineFrank · 29-04-2008, 16:49

Actually you are correct. It's pointless. The 18.18 service is practically empty beyond leixlip anyway.

What's needed is a larger 6.05 train to Longford and a proper one at that (an actual intercity train). Either that or they should remove Maynooth as a stop on this particular service. It's ridiculously overcrowded. If you are going to Maynooth you have the option of all dart services, why make the trip uncomfortable for those who actually need it to go to Longford/Mullingar.

I think both early morning sligo trains and evening trains need to be Intercity services with Maynooth as the final stop before Drumcondra. The in between stops are exactly that, dart services.

The overall problem can of course be completely broken down to too many trains on one line. This line really needs to be made into 2 running side by side but i'm sure that's quite a big job.

21-10-2007, 01:01	#1
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Longford services (all stops): Any point to it I noticed recently that there are never any decent passenger numbers on the Maynooth-Longford stage of the services that call at all stops between connolly and longford. When looking at the journey planner on the irish rail website I noticed that there was a 17.05 that runs non-stop to mullingar and onwards to edgeworthstown and longford. It takes 1hrs 38mins to get whereas the 17.15 (yes 10 minutes later) to Longford takes just under 2hrs 10mins. Is there any pont to the 17.15 all stations? why is this in place? Is there a sudden surge in passenger numbers for mullingar/longford between 17.05 and 17.15? Why would someone want to take a longer journey? Its the same with the 18.00hrs to longford (skips maynooth commuter stations) which takes 1 hr 38 mins which is followed 17 mins later by the 18.17 all stations to longford which takes just under 2 hrs 10mins. Is there any point to this? I just find it strange that its a waste of 2 eight-car sets that could be used better. what do you think? What are passenger numbers like on the all-stops? Should the 17.15 and 18.17 be evened out to 17.30 and 18.30, or is there any point to them even going to longford? Should the all-stops be curtailed to maynooth or enfield and more non-stops to longford appear? What about morning services? Should the Sligo early bird return along with a direct service from longford? again curtailing the all-stops back to maynooth or even enfield?

21-10-2007, 13:53	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The 17:15 is well used The 18:00 really shouldn't be there, the locals in Longford got all angry when IE swapped the old 18:00 to Sligo and replaced with a 17:05 and 19:05 to Sligo so not content with an extra fast train they wanted to keep the old one as well Not really a sensible idea and split capacity in a inefficient manner and adds a train movement across the worst part of Connolly slowing everyone down, that said the 18:00 seems to leave Connolly with people standing __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

23-10-2007, 09:54	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its 14 miles to Maynooth and you can't run non stop with other trains in the way, its getting quite packed in the mornings The whole Longford thing is quite crazy, it makes little sense to provide 5 rush hour services in the evening Stuck in the middle we find Mullingar which could do with those 5 rush hour services, Longford at most deserves a train every hour at peak time, Longford if anything is dragging the whole thing down and IE are going to punish everyone west of Maynooth as a result in December __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

23-10-2007, 20:14	#6
John J Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Longford Posts: 50	The 18.17 to Longford definitely appears pointless. The one time I caught this service to Longford I recall having four cars of a 29K set to myself for the last ten minutes, which was quite a surreal experience! Hardly surprising though considering the train takes well over 2 hours and has an 11 minute layover in Mullingar. The reason why this train runs to Longford seems to be that 8 cars need to go down to form the morning return service. The following alternative was obviously beyond the reasoning of IE: 18.00 - run as an 8 car set instead of a 4 car, and overnight in Longford instead of returning to Dublin at 20.50 (doubt anyone uses that service anyway) 18.17 - run as a 4 car set terminating in Maynooth or Enfield But IE would rather operate pointless services like the 18.17 to Longford, instead of providing us with a decent morning service, or a late evening train for commuters working late or socialising after work... __________________ Commuting since 2004 - can't take much more. Last edited by John J : 23-10-2007 at 20:19.

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21-10-2007, 18:13	#4
And New to the board Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11	I agree, I would have thought that a 10 min gap between the "fast" (1705) and "all stops" (1715) services to Longford doesn't make sense...surely better to spread out the capacity bit better. More generally, there are 2 "fast" peak services to Longford in the evening (1705 and 1800) and none in the morning. This surely needs to be addressed in the new Dec '07 timetable. Having both morning Longford services stopping at all stations to Connolly means very uncompetitive journey times for long-distance commuters and very packed trains for Maynooth line commuters, and also increases the risk of service delays to the Maynooth trains. Surely the time has now come - given the extra carriages entering service soon - to separate out at least one of these morning services e.g. defer the current 620 ex Longford by 10 mins to 630 so it arrives at Maynooth at say 743, and allow it continue onwards to Connolly with just one or two stops (e.g. at a D15 station and Dcondra) along the way, arriving at 820. The current 7:36 from Maynooth (which originates in Longford) should now start at Maynooth, departing at say 734, all-stops to Pearse, arriving Connolly at 8:15.

23-10-2007, 21:23	#8
KSW Really Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Rosslare Line Posts: 600	I know excatly want you mean. I live in Gorey and the first two trains from the town to Dublin both take 2hrs. From Bray onwards the train just crawls along. Maynooth to Connolly is about the same distance from Bray to Connolly but yet the Gorey/Rosslare services take over 40mins. Longford-Edgeworthstown-Mullingar-Enfield-Kilcock-Maynooth-Connolly-Tara St-Pearse you would love but unforunatly there will be passengers from Longford etc. getting off after Maynooth and Connolly. Its the same as the Gorey services People will either have to get off and connect from there to where-ever... I KNOW,I KNOW U WISH THERE WAS DIRECT SERVICES FROM MAYNOOTH TO CONNOLLY, U ME BOTH. But when it comes down to it Iarnrod Eireann could reduce the times if they look hard enough.............................

25-10-2007, 14:05	#9
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	If a 9 0'clock train to sligo was to be introduced Could the early bird be brought back as a concession to cutting back the first morning service ex longford to maynooth. It worked monday mornings when the early bird used to run.

29-10-2007, 15:48	#10
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Surely the 17.15 is only of benefit to Kilcock and Enfield passengers for a 10 minute gap between services (non-stop and all stops) there wouldn't be much passengers around. Does it also point out the inbalance of resources between morning and evening peak hour services - due to people using later services and that more resources should be put into later services. Peak hour Maynooth/longford should be adjusted so that there is a gap of around 30 minutes between services otherwise the longford services are screwed. something like this: 17:00 Connolly Sligo 17:05 Connolly Maynooth (new service) 17:20 Connolly Maynooth (17:28 brought forward) 17:35 Connolly Longford (17:15 put back) 17:50 Connolly Maynooth (17:44 put back) 18:00 Connolly Longford 18:05 Connolly Maynooth 18:20 Connolly Maynooth (18:37 brought forward) 18:37 Connolly Longford (18:17 put back) They are Connolly departure times whatever times through services depart from pearse etc. What do you think?

29-04-2008, 16:49	#11
SardineFrank New to the board Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 12	Actually you are correct. It's pointless. The 18.18 service is practically empty beyond leixlip anyway. What's needed is a larger 6.05 train to Longford and a proper one at that (an actual intercity train). Either that or they should remove Maynooth as a stop on this particular service. It's ridiculously overcrowded. If you are going to Maynooth you have the option of all dart services, why make the trip uncomfortable for those who actually need it to go to Longford/Mullingar. I think both early morning sligo trains and evening trains need to be Intercity services with Maynooth as the final stop before Drumcondra. The in between stops are exactly that, dart services. The overall problem can of course be completely broken down to too many trains on one line. This line really needs to be made into 2 running side by side but i'm sure that's quite a big job.