[10-3-2007] 06:30 Cork Dublin

[Mark Gleeson]

Someone spot a trend here?

While IE will never tell you, you are entitled to a refund
http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...hp#their_fault

No info on the 10:00 ex Dublin which is the same set so its most likely delayed, cancelled or running as a Mk3

Cork Heuston Delays by Corporate Communications

Saturday 10th March 08:50

Due to a locomotive fault on the 06:30 Cork Heuston. Services on the Cork line are experiencing up to 2 hour delays.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for any inconvenience caused

[lff12]

As it happens, I was one of the unfortunates on that train. Well more fool me for believing that it would be less stressful and only sligher more expensive than driving. It was not.

The train left Heuston at 6:30am on time. The train was about 10% full at most. It ground to a halt about 15 miles on the Cork side of Limerick junction at around 7:20am. An announcement was made quick enough saying it would take 2 minutes to "assess the damage." The situation remained pretty much the same, around an hour or so later they announced there would be free coffee and tea and would be receiving a replacement loco in around 40-45 minutes (presumably somebody was physically pushing it from limerick with their bare hands).

It arrived at around 9 to 9:10am and the train set off again, abeit at a much slower pce (I'd say around 40mph) and got to Limerick Junction at 09:25am, more than 2 hours late by now.

I had an appointment in Terenure at 11:30am so realised there was no way the train would get to Dublin before 11:15am, and judging by the slower speed of the replacment locomotive, I guessed a later delay was highly likely, and I would be far too late to make my appointment. So I got off at Limerick Junction and took the next train back as I was planning only to go to Dublin for this appointment and get the next train home.

Anyway I had heard that you are entitled to refunds if the train is a certain degree late so I asked in Limerick but they told me that I'd need to go back to where I bought the ticket. When I got to Cork I asked at the information kiosk and a rather unhelpful assistant gave me a form to fill out. She wasn't exactly volunteering that she could send it via internal post so I waited until she came back to me and got her to send it via internal post.

What bugs me though, is that I am stymied, as I didn't complete the journey but didn't acncel due to the train being late (as I was already on the train - after all, they didn't announce at 6:30am that the train was going to take 5 hours instead of 3 so I didn't get a chance to cancel due to the delay). Looking back technically Cork should have given me a refund, but in fact they don't really make allowance for cancelling a journey midway due to lateness, nor the unique case of having a day return ticket (as effectively the entire cost should be refunded since the return end of the ticket is useless since you never got there). Its extremely frustrating facing into a 28 day return period for a ticket I was unable to fully use due to a very significant delay on IE's part.

The thing is, I don't really want vouchers - I'd prefer a refund since I don't want to use this service ever again. Any suggestions? I as thinking of throwing it to a local parish pump politican and seeing what gurning they do with it. Or ring customer service directly? Any ideas?

The other thing is IE cannot refund me is the 2.80 rip off cappucino, the 5 euros parking for the day at Water St, the petrol i paid to drive into town, what an absolute great big rip off.

[Derek Wheeler]

You are entitled to a full refund. The form you were given in Cork should furnish you with a payment from IE in the post. The fact that you didn't complete the journey is irrelevent. The train arrival in Dublin was beyond any reasonable delay. You'd already bought the ticket so the cash is yours.

The parking and cappachino, I can't help you with.

Your case, is yet another example of how this apparent new train is dogged by problems. Not a week seems to go by, when there isn't an incident. If you want to make a bigger deal of it in the Cork media, please let me know. IE only react to media pressure. We'd be very happy to assist.

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail will not normally make any effort to tell you about the availability of a refund. The form is hard to find and of course its not online on the IE site, though we have copies.

I've made numerous trips on the new Cork train and I've experienced all kinds of weirdness, its never been perfect. I've had all kinds of serious mechincal problems none of which I've experienced on any other train.

There is a least a 1 serious issue every second day, we don't get a list so it is much worse on the ground

Of course Irish Rail deny there is a serious problem, we independently worked out the reliability (5 minute or more technical delay) figure as 6,500 miles and IE admitted we where close. The 29000 railcars do 50,000 miles and DART 80-100,000 miles. We should be seeing 15,000 miles minimum

[Derek Wheeler]

Lets be honest, (im wearing my "oh god its Monday tomorrow" hat) these trains are junk.

[Dave]

If these trains are mechanically as bad as it seems do IE have any comeback with CAF as in money back guarantee or compensation or something?

[Mark Gleeson]

Normal service resumed this evening good old 30 year old locomotive and 20 year old coaches, only in Ireland would you call it an improvement

[lff12]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

You are entitled to a full refund. The form you were given in Cork should furnish you with a payment from IE in the post. The fact that you didn't complete the journey is irrelevent. The train arrival in Dublin was beyond any reasonable delay. You'd already bought the ticket so the cash is yours.

Your case, is yet another example of how this apparent new train is dogged by problems. Not a week seems to go by, when there isn't an incident. If you want to make a bigger deal of it in the Cork media, please let me know. IE only react to media pressure. We'd be very happy to assist.

I'd be delighted to make a bigger deal of it in the Cork media, especially if IE have the cheek to send me vouchers as a refund (as if I'd be inclined to risk going through the same again) or if it is as serious a problem as it is. I used to be a regular user of the Cobh rail and eventually gave up as the almost weekly cancelled 8:20am service isn't really a good way to start the day (luckily I was driving to the station so wasn't as stranded as other passengers who had no option but to wait until the 9:35am train). I think these issues definitely need to be highlighted and not simply forgotten. Its another thread also, but it would be useful to debate a) the clear systems failure that is occuring within IE and causing problems to escalate rapidly and make problems very slow to resolve (like for example why it took 2 hours to get a replacement loco 15 miles from Limerick junction on Saturday), and b) why there is such a complacement, if not contemptuous attitude by IE to customers (the classic example is how regularly passengers are left to queue for 10 minutes at many busy station ticket offices and the trains simply leave without them even though clearly it is not passengers fault that there isn't sufficient capacity to cope with a large volume of business at peak hours).

I'll get onto you anyway about this!

[Thomas J Stamp]

in relation to your last paragraph, and this is a serious reply by the way, the underlying attitude to those problems is "its not my job to do that" and "its more than my jobs worth to do that"

This is the root cause of many of the small and annoying problems you will see reported here on the messageboard.

Everyone on this board, be they committee member, member or just a poster, has one thing in common, they are all passengers. Although Irish Rail do not recognise out role, they read this board. They know exactly what annoys passengers, and, sometimes, they fix things - usually in or around the DART.

Don't forget that IE tried to fob off the oldest carriages of the lot as a special to Cork last year. It was only because a prominent journalist was aboard and wrote a scathing piece about his ghastly experience that they were, finally, and hopefully forever, withdrawn, otherwise it would still be rostered. (in fact, they still are, in theory, but woe betide them if they bring them back)

Perhaps that tells you something about how IE regards the ordinary passengers.