Pay Parking at stations - unjustifiable rip off

[Thomas J Stamp]

I heard Barry Kenny on radio IE, sorry, Newstalk 106 breakfast show today. He was speaking about pay parking.

Now this is something we have touched upon before and indeed we have a position on it:

http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_issues/parking.php

But Barry Kenny came up with a couple of reasons to justify this policy and I regret that I didnt have a chance to take him to task on it (will one day though, Barry).

1. The charge reduces the usage of the car park facilities by those who dont use the train.
2. It encourages those who can otherwise walk or cycle to abandon their cars.
3. There was a reference to overcrowding on trains
4. The charge is €2 per day €5 per week.
5. The revenue is needed to pay for the upgrades

This is why those reasons dont stack up:

1. If you want just the rail users to use your car park then you operate a system whereby a token is issued to you by the station staff on showing your ticket which you use on exit or a system whereby you can use your ticket. If you have a season ticket you are given a ticket that the entry/exit barriers can read to allow you to exit at all times. At the same time you have a look at what the local parking charges are and you charge double so that anyone who really does want to park in the IE car park during their shopping will go elsewhere.

2. If you live within a killometer of a station you will walk. Some stations are not very assessabile to the vast majority of the local population- eg, Hazelhatch, Maynooth, Salins. There can be little option for many many people but to drive. Leaving aside the nanny-state element of this, why bother expand a car park (the rationalle given for the charging) if at the same time you are trying to discourage people from driving? Ergo, the principle will achieve 100% success when the car park is empty. This is despite the fact that the princely sum of €2 is not going to discourage anyone from driving in the first place, although it is noteworthy to point out that it is just about the price of a packet of Tayto on an intercity train.

3. This I found odd, and indeed I may have mishead it but a lot fo texters did mention the fact that this will do nothing to ease such overcrowding. Let's hope that we're not seeing a dim little bulb appearing above Barry's head entitled "rush hour surcharge"

4. The price is too small to discourage anyone from parking. I'd throw €2 at a cat to get it off my grounds so paying €2 means nothing to anyone, not even €5 a week. It is too small to act as a disencentive, therefoe it is a revenue generating device. Think about this: Luas introduced a similar small charge to stop casual customers using the rush hour service? Do you know anyone that stopped using it? Have you? Do you even notice that it costs more? Nope. The only thing that has changed on Luas is the balance sheet. Same will happen here.

5. It is amazing that a company, wholly owned by a major property developer, who has licenced the building of apartments and commercial developement on its lands for millions of euro, hasnt ringfenced that money for works such as this.

Also, can we please have the exact bill for each station car park redevelopment? Perhaps then we can ring fence each car park revenue to that development cost so we know that in some future date the costs will be eliminated. And, erm, if that is the reason, how come not every car park being redeveloped is seeing pay parking being introduced.

Anyway, Claire Byrne thinks you're all getting great value for money at €2, as its cheaper than any other parking in the area. Considering IE use this to deter parking, that hardly makes sence. If something is free today and €2 tomorrow I'd hardly call that value for money but if you want to tell her that it'll cost you .30C. Last year it was free, but I'm sure that its great value for money nonetheless.

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail have refused to back down on the planned charges at the proposed Pace and Dunboyne stations. Its not even up for discussion. Irish Rail refuse to accept that for the charge a physical security presence is then warranted

The good folks in Newbridge where told that they could either have an extended car park with a charge or nothing.

We are aware that these new car parks infact may not be costing Irish Rail any money since they is a huge massively undersubscribed fund held by the DoT to fund Park and Ride schemes

Like it says on our website, its not sustainable anyway to keep providing bigger car parks since its not addressing the actual issue, local area transport

[ThomasJ]

From The Irish Times

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/mot...713281438.html

Extra charges for commuters
Patrick Logue

Thousands of motorists who leave their cars at train stations before commuting to work face extra charges next year, as Iarnród Éireann plans to significantly expand the number of pay-parking facilities across the Republic.

Motorists, who already face increases in motor tax in today's Budget and rising fuel costs, could see the cost of travelling to work rise by hundreds of euro per annum.

The rail company has already introduced four pay-parking sites but said it expects to open "dozens" more. The next pay-parking site is expected to be opened in Sallins, Co Kildare, in the coming months, while planning permission has been granted for a new pay-parking facility at Newbridge station.

Other locations where pay parking is planned include Rush and Lusk station, in north Co Dublin; Drogheda, Co Louth; Coolmine, Dublin 15; and Portmarnock, Co Dublin. Multistorey options are being considered in Drogheda, Coolmine and Portmarnock, Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny told The Irish Times.

Gormanston station in Co Meath, on the Northern Commuter line, had its free-of-charge car park replaced with pay-parking in September.

Up to 60 cars were using the station on a daily basis before the new car park was developed. Half of them were parking in the existing small car park, and the remainder were leaving their vehicles on a public road.

"In Gormanston we now have 90 cars per day using it and it is a 250-space car park. It is an area where there is likely to be further development," said Kenny.

"Some people are still using the road, but the local authority will be marking it as a no parking area soon," he added.

Pay parking has also been introduced in Leixlip/Louisa Bridge station in Co Kildare, which is 80 to 90 per cent full on a daily basis, according to Kenny. Tullamore, Co Offaly and Arklow, Co Wicklow also have pay parking.

Iarnród Éireann is charging €2 per day for the parking facilities or a weekly pass for €5, representing at least an extra €260 per annum for motorists who commute by train. This is on top of hundreds of euro already spent on annual rail tickets.

The company says the money is being used to cover the cost of upgrading parking facilities including CCTV and improved areas for bicycles.

Labour spokesman on commuter affairs Senator Dominic Hannigan said the fact that the new parking charges were not regulated by the Department of Transport was a concern.

"Train fares are regulated and car parking charges which are part of the overall cost of travelling should also be regulated."

Recent census figures showed that 57 per cent drove a car to work in 2006, up from 55 per cent in 2002.

© 2007 The Irish Times

[ThomasJ]

Quick question re. coolmine station.

Heard a rumour that the Carpark will close for eighteen months when they are making the carpark into a double storey and they may be even closing the station down for some time. any truth to any of that?

[Colm Donoghue]

the existing pay parking council owned car parks in Arklow allow only 4 hours max. so IE will let non train users pay for the week for a fiver. sweet!

I wonder how the system will work for kiss and ride passengers, will passengers now need to be dropped on an unsafe road immediately outside a station car park?

Also you'ld have to wonder about the malice in no season tickets being issued to allow customers avail of tax relief.

Or instead of providing increased capacity they would try limit the numbers of customers...

[CSL]

You are assuming motives where none exist.

Whoever is building these things simply does not think in these terms that we can relate to.

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

2. If you live within a killometer of a station you will walk.

This is not actually true. I used to know a family who live in Skerries within a kilometre of the train station. Every morning, three cars from that house would be driven to and parked in the train station. This wasn't an isolated case either. I would wager that most cars parked in that station carpark were from houses within one kilometre of the train station.

People are incredibly lazy in this country and (mostly) when they have the option of driving short distances, they will drive the short distance.

[Mark]

Hopefully the pay parking measures will deter those situations. I feel that Iarnrod Eireann could engage in some awareness campaigns at some of the other stations suffering from people driving short distances. Reminders to people that it only takes 10 mins to walk 1km, costs €X per km to run your car, pollution per km etc..

[karman]

It's all very well to say that people who live within a km of the station are lazy for driving and should be walking, but this doesn't take into account:

1. The climate... it's hardly mediterranean! I for one do not like arriving at / sitting in work all day in a damp suit or have a damp rain suit hanging up in a small office.

2. The quality of roads, footpaths & street lighting around many outlying stations leaves a lot to be desired. I have had cars come uncomfortably close to me on the narrow road down to Louisa Bridge station... this does not encourage me to walk.

3. Other tasks achieved on the way to the station such as dropping kids to creche or school.

I may be missing the point here, but I think paying €5 pw for a car park is infintely preferable to parking on a muddy verge on a poorly lit road. People are voting with their feet...or their wheels when they are too lazy to use their feet ... the car park at Louisa Bridge is almost always full by 9 a.m. on a weekday.

[plant43]

Originally Posted by karman

It's all very well to say that people who live within a km of the station are lazy for driving and should be walking, but this doesn't take into account:

1. The climate... it's hardly mediterranean! I for one do not like arriving at / sitting in work all day in a damp suit or have a damp rain suit hanging up in a small office.

2. The quality of roads, footpaths & street lighting around many outlying stations leaves a lot to be desired. I have had cars come uncomfortably close to me on the narrow road down to Louisa Bridge station... this does not encourage me to walk.

3. Other tasks achieved on the way to the station such as dropping kids to creche or school.

I may be missing the point here, but I think paying €5 pw for a car park is infintely preferable to parking on a muddy verge on a poorly lit road. People are voting with their feet...or their wheels when they are too lazy to use their feet ... the car park at Louisa Bridge is almost always full by 9 a.m. on a weekday.

1. The number of days when you're washed out is minimal. I cycle every day and the number of days I'm rained on is actually not that great.

2. Funding should be diverted from improving car parks to improving pedestrian access to train station.

3. And so the vicous cycle continues. Children are growing up thinking that the only way to travel short distances is to drive. Back in my day (and it's not even that long ago) we walked 30 minutes to school and we liked it. Children can be brought to school on foot (or on bike, quite an impressive range of accessories for that these days).

It can entirely be put down to laziness.

[Mark Gleeson]

The problem is in the vast majority of locations the station are not within reasonable walking distance, especially given the poor development and planning standards pushing housing into green fields miles from anywhere

So
Rush and Lusk
Gormanston
Drogheda
Bray
Sallins
Newbridge
Kildare
Templemore

Newbridge, Sallins and Gormanston where free and either are or will be charged
Templemore is being extended but won't be charged

The only progress we have had on this is confirmation from Irish Rail that they are now looking at including the parking on annual ticket after we raised the issue.

Parking is the solution, the only realistic solution is proper local bus services. Note Rush and Lusk has a bus stop but not much of a service, same thing can be said of Sallins and Hazelhatch where there is a service but its a joke

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Mark

Hopefully the pay parking measures will deter those situations. I feel that Iarnrod Eireann could engage in some awareness campaigns at some of the other stations suffering from people driving short distances. Reminders to people that it only takes 10 mins to walk 1km, costs €X per km to run your car, pollution per km etc..

They could run awareness campaigns till they were blue in the face but I don't think it would change very much.