Today's Star[B][I]"Unsafe" train halted by angry protestor [/I][/B]

Philly · 30-09-2006, 21:27

"Unsafe" train halted by angry protestor

Edited

A furious passenger was so concerned with over-crowding on yesterday's Dublin-Waterford train he put his life in danger to hold it up in a protest.

Jason Hogan, from Newbridge, was travelling home on the 4:25 train from Heuston to Waterford when he became so exasperated at the over-crowding that he had to act.

"When I got onto the train it was absolutely packed..." Jason said.

"I complained to IE staff on the platform but they said there was nothing they could do. As the train pulled out I was really concerned, it was unsafe, there were up to twenty people standing in the passageway alone. So I rang the HSA from my mobile but they said it wasn't their area."

He then rang the GardaÃ*, who contacted CIE. "I knw they would do nothing about it, complaints always fall on deaf ears with CIE".

"Thats when I decided to act, I was deeply concerned for my own and the other passenger's safety."

When the train arrived at Hazelhatch, Jason jumped out and stopped the doors from closing.

For 20 mins. the train was held up as Jason refused to move. Staff at Hazelhatch called the GardaÃ*. When they arrived Jason locked himself in the toilet. "They forced the door open and led me away, CIE are likely to press charges but I'm glad I did what I did. Somebody has to take a stand. Conditions on trains are just terrible."

A spokesman for CIE said there was no danger... it was a matter of comfort not safety...

Mark Gleeson · 30-09-2006, 21:47

Headcase, the act of holding up the train in fact prolonged the suffering of other passengers, a lot of whom would have got out before Kildare anyway

This kind of action is not going to solve the problem, it is likely that IE will bill this individual for the delayed minutes

There is no legal guidance set down on overcrowding in Ireland or indeed the UK or in Europe which leaves us in limbo

Philly · 30-09-2006, 23:50

I agree - he went slightly over the top!

There should be a limit on the numbers of people allowed on board though. Also, CIE should not be allowed to advertise their services if many are already being used at a level they can't handle.

Mark Gleeson · 01-10-2006, 10:18

There are no advertisements for any service except for the seat booking which ensures you a seat thus gets around the overcrowding. All there is a timetable, so you can't get them on advertising

There is no legal limit, well to be precise no legal way to enforce a limit. There is a design limit set down by the manufacturer of the coach and I have never seen an incident where a coach loaded beyond the design limit since its physically impossible unless we all wore lead belts

This is not a Irish problem its Europe wide, though France is a notable exception since they wont let you on without a reservation (note the Germans don't enforce this kind of policy). Here is the scenario you board the train find it full, no one is forcing you to get on thus the person who get on with the knowledge of not getting a seat is the person who creates the problem

Where a train is designed for standing passengers, e.g. DART railcar etc we have no objection to standing once it doesn't exceed say 30 minutes. Standing on intercity services is not acceptable but there is another problem say the last train to X leaves at time Y train is fully seated do you refuse further passengers who are accepting of the fact they will have to stand

This Jason guy who held the train up is most likely guilty of obstructing a train under section 119a of the Rail Safety Act also guilty of refusing to leave a train upon request of a IE employee under SI109 1984

The actual problem here is why on earth is the 16:25 calling at Hazelhatch, Sallins and Newbridge, if those stops where eliminated there wouldn't be a problem

Philly · 01-10-2006, 17:42

The 16:25 stops at "commuter towns" because there is a demand for it to do so - a massive one at that. I've gotten it a few times now and the train is a third empty by the time it leaves Newbridge. If this train didnn't service these towns, then the other commuter services would be under even greater pressure. I once got the 17:18 Heuston - Newbridge. It was a railcar and was really packed. People were standing everywhere, there was no room at all, the ticket inspecter didn't even bother doing his rounds - or else he didn't get as far as me. If the Inter City services stopped serving Newbridge and other commuter towns then things would just get worse - not a solution.

Mark Gleeson · 01-10-2006, 18:40

16:25 goes to Waterford thats the problem, intercity serivces should not call at Sallins or Hazelhatch this is contary to the offical stated IE policy

Suburban passengers should not be traveling on intercity trains, the demand is for local services out to Kildare and we can't understand why there are big gaps on the Kildare route

A slots exists to leave at 16:20 (move the 16:20 fridays only to 16:15) and have a all stops behind at 16:25

30-09-2006, 21:27	#1
Philly Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 43	Today's Star[B][I]"Unsafe" train halted by angry protestor [/I][/B] *"Unsafe" train halted by angry protestor* Edited A furious passenger was so concerned with over-crowding on yesterday's Dublin-Waterford train he put his life in danger to hold it up in a protest. Jason Hogan, from Newbridge, was travelling home on the 4:25 train from Heuston to Waterford when he became so exasperated at the over-crowding that he had to act. "When I got onto the train it was absolutely packed..." Jason said. "I complained to IE staff on the platform but they said there was nothing they could do. As the train pulled out I was really concerned, it was unsafe, there were up to twenty people standing in the passageway alone. So I rang the HSA from my mobile but they said it wasn't their area." He then rang the GardaÃ, who contacted CIE. "I knw they would do nothing about it, complaints always fall on deaf ears with CIE". "Thats when I decided to act, I was deeply concerned for my own and the other passenger's safety." When the train arrived at Hazelhatch, Jason jumped out and stopped the doors from closing. For 20 mins. the train was held up as Jason refused to move. Staff at Hazelhatch called the GardaÃ. When they arrived Jason locked himself in the toilet. "They forced the door open and led me away, CIE are likely to press charges but I'm glad I did what I did. Somebody has to take a stand. Conditions on trains are just terrible." A spokesman for CIE said there was no danger... it was a matter of comfort not safety...

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30-09-2006, 21:47	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Headcase, the act of holding up the train in fact prolonged the suffering of other passengers, a lot of whom would have got out before Kildare anyway This kind of action is not going to solve the problem, it is likely that IE will bill this individual for the delayed minutes There is no legal guidance set down on overcrowding in Ireland or indeed the UK or in Europe which leaves us in limbo

30-09-2006, 23:50	#3
Philly Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 43	I agree - he went slightly over the top! There should be a limit on the numbers of people allowed on board though. Also, CIE should not be allowed to advertise their services if many are already being used at a level they can't handle.

01-10-2006, 10:18	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There are no advertisements for any service except for the seat booking which ensures you a seat thus gets around the overcrowding. All there is a timetable, so you can't get them on advertising There is no legal limit, well to be precise no legal way to enforce a limit. There is a design limit set down by the manufacturer of the coach and I have never seen an incident where a coach loaded beyond the design limit since its physically impossible unless we all wore lead belts This is not a Irish problem its Europe wide, though France is a notable exception since they wont let you on without a reservation (note the Germans don't enforce this kind of policy). Here is the scenario you board the train find it full, no one is forcing you to get on thus the person who get on with the knowledge of not getting a seat is the person who creates the problem Where a train is designed for standing passengers, e.g. DART railcar etc we have no objection to standing once it doesn't exceed say 30 minutes. Standing on intercity services is not acceptable but there is another problem say the last train to X leaves at time Y train is fully seated do you refuse further passengers who are accepting of the fact they will have to stand This Jason guy who held the train up is most likely guilty of obstructing a train under section 119a of the Rail Safety Act also guilty of refusing to leave a train upon request of a IE employee under SI109 1984 The actual problem here is why on earth is the 16:25 calling at Hazelhatch, Sallins and Newbridge, if those stops where eliminated there wouldn't be a problem

01-10-2006, 17:42	#5
Philly Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 43	The 16:25 stops at "commuter towns" because there is a demand for it to do so - a massive one at that. I've gotten it a few times now and the train is a third empty by the time it leaves Newbridge. If this train didnn't service these towns, then the other commuter services would be under even greater pressure. I once got the 17:18 Heuston - Newbridge. It was a railcar and was really packed. People were standing everywhere, there was no room at all, the ticket inspecter didn't even bother doing his rounds - or else he didn't get as far as me. If the Inter City services stopped serving Newbridge and other commuter towns then things would just get worse - not a solution.

01-10-2006, 18:40	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	16:25 goes to Waterford thats the problem, intercity serivces should not call at Sallins or Hazelhatch this is contary to the offical stated IE policy Suburban passengers should not be traveling on intercity trains, the demand is for local services out to Kildare and we can't understand why there are big gaps on the Kildare route A slots exists to leave at 16:20 (move the 16:20 fridays only to 16:15) and have a all stops behind at 16:25