Journey times on the Cork Dublin route

Fergal · 20-07-2010, 21:33

I've heard a lot about journey time padding on this route. Currently, it takes about 2hours 50 minutes for a typical journey. What is the fastest that this journey could be done at, with 3 or 4 stops, if Irish Rail decided to run the trains to their full potential, with a minimum of recovery time?

Does Irish rail need to spend a lot of money on the line to reduce journey times?

Also, could a two-hourly stopping pattern with 3 stops help?

Something like
Odd hours: stop Portlaoise, Thurles, Mallow (for Kerry).
Even hours: stop Ballybrophy (for Limerick), either Templemore or Charleville, and Limerick Junction (for Limerick).

All stops closer than Portlaoise served by commuter trains.

Really, a journey time of under 2hours 15minutes is needed - is there any possibility of getting this in the next 5 years.

neoncircles · 20-07-2010, 23:27

If many of the Limerick direct services were brought back they could make the stops instead- and the Cork trains could run express, perhaps calling at Mallow and Lmk Jctn only (For Cork-Limk pax). There are far too many calling stations for the Cork trains.

comcor · 21-07-2010, 07:38

Given the usage of the stations, you'd probably stop every train at Mallow and Limerick Junction and then alternate the other stop between Thurles and Port Laoise. It may be desirable to stop one or two trains to connect with Mayo trains at Portarlington.

Other stops could be better served by Thurles-Cork and Thurles-Dublin stopping services or even a Cork-Dublin stopping service, which gets overtaken by the express train at some point and which allows connections to the express train at Thurles. Such services could increase the number of stops at places like Charleville, Templemore etc. and could facilitate services to stations that are planned to reopen (e.g. Blarney) or are long closed (e.g. Buttevant, Dundrum).

It's the way rail services work elsewhere.

Without the padding and with three stops, I see no reason why 2h 25m or 2h 30m shouldn't be possible. If you want to see the effect of padding, have a look at the following timetables between Cork and Mallow.

Somehow, Dublin-Cork InterCities take 6-13 minutes longer than commuter railcars; they mysteriously take between 31 and 38 minutes to do the same route with the same rolling stock and no stops with no obvious reason why one train is faster than another. Most tellingly of all, while it takes between 31 and 38 minutes to go downhill from Cork to Mallow, it takes 21 or 22 minutes to do the uphill journey in the opposite direction.

Colm Moore · 21-07-2010, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by comcor

Most tellingly of all, while it takes between 31 and 38 minutes to go downhill from Cork to Mallow, it takes 21 or 22 minutes to do the uphill journey in the opposite direction.

Mallow (about 70m ASL, MP 144.5) is higher than Cork (5-10m ASL, MP 165.5).

the high point is at about 140m ASL at MP 151-152. The slopes are about the same.

The fastest scheduled services was back in the early 1990s doing it in 2h20 - the last train on a Sunday evening. Eash stop will add about 3 minutes, between slowing down, stopping and accelerating again.

Mark Gleeson · 22-07-2010, 08:35

The extra time is the cheat to ensure the punctuality numbers look good

In reality Dublin bound trains should be afforded about 2 minutes more to Mallow but 6 minutes less towards Cork

kieran4003 · 02-09-2010, 21:44

I was on the 7.30am this morning and I was given a survey by the business development manager. The purpose given was ' we (irishrail) are currently looking at alterations to our timetable to reduce journey time and provide an earlier arrival time in Dublin.' It was short and give examples of different times of arrival in Dublin for the 7.30 to pick, what return train would suit etc. I laughed when I saw something like 9am or earlier! I spoke to the manager and he hinted that major changes could be coming. About time I think!

Also ride quality was ok going up but coming back carraiges were bouncing all over the place and lurching a lot. Thank Goodness I dont use the train much for work!

20-07-2010, 21:33	#1
Fergal Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 21	Journey times on the Cork Dublin route I've heard a lot about journey time padding on this route. Currently, it takes about 2hours 50 minutes for a typical journey. What is the fastest that this journey could be done at, with 3 or 4 stops, if Irish Rail decided to run the trains to their full potential, with a minimum of recovery time? Does Irish rail need to spend a lot of money on the line to reduce journey times? Also, could a two-hourly stopping pattern with 3 stops help? Something like Odd hours: stop Portlaoise, Thurles, Mallow (for Kerry). Even hours: stop Ballybrophy (for Limerick), either Templemore or Charleville, and Limerick Junction (for Limerick). All stops closer than Portlaoise served by commuter trains. Really, a journey time of under 2hours 15minutes is needed - is there any possibility of getting this in the next 5 years.

22-07-2010, 08:35	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The extra time is the cheat to ensure the punctuality numbers look good In reality Dublin bound trains should be afforded about 2 minutes more to Mallow but 6 minutes less towards Cork __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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20-07-2010, 23:27	#2
neoncircles Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Limerick Posts: 87	If many of the Limerick direct services were brought back they could make the stops instead- and the Cork trains could run express, perhaps calling at Mallow and Lmk Jctn only (For Cork-Limk pax). There are far too many calling stations for the Cork trains.

21-07-2010, 07:38	#3
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	Given the usage of the stations, you'd probably stop every train at Mallow and Limerick Junction and then alternate the other stop between Thurles and Port Laoise. It may be desirable to stop one or two trains to connect with Mayo trains at Portarlington. Other stops could be better served by Thurles-Cork and Thurles-Dublin stopping services or even a Cork-Dublin stopping service, which gets overtaken by the express train at some point and which allows connections to the express train at Thurles. Such services could increase the number of stops at places like Charleville, Templemore etc. and could facilitate services to stations that are planned to reopen (e.g. Blarney) or are long closed (e.g. Buttevant, Dundrum). It's the way rail services work elsewhere. Without the padding and with three stops, I see no reason why 2h 25m or 2h 30m shouldn't be possible. If you want to see the effect of padding, have a look at the following timetables between Cork and Mallow. Somehow, Dublin-Cork InterCities take 6-13 minutes longer than commuter railcars; they mysteriously take between 31 and 38 minutes to do the same route with the same rolling stock and no stops with no obvious reason why one train is faster than another. Most tellingly of all, while it takes between 31 and 38 minutes to go downhill from Cork to Mallow, it takes 21 or 22 minutes to do the uphill journey in the opposite direction.

02-09-2010, 21:44	#6
kieran4003 New to the board Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 7	I was on the 7.30am this morning and I was given a survey by the business development manager. The purpose given was ' we (irishrail) are currently looking at alterations to our timetable to reduce journey time and provide an earlier arrival time in Dublin.' It was short and give examples of different times of arrival in Dublin for the 7.30 to pick, what return train would suit etc. I laughed when I saw something like 9am or earlier! I spoke to the manager and he hinted that major changes could be coming. About time I think! Also ride quality was ok going up but coming back carraiges were bouncing all over the place and lurching a lot. Thank Goodness I dont use the train much for work!