coolmine station,early train, 50 euro fine

andyl222 · 25-03-2007, 17:51

I was walking to catch the 12.50 train to connolly at coolmine station. I was perhaps 150 metres from thje level crossing when i noticed the barrier was down, signifying a train was coming into the station. It was 12.38 and i assumed it must have been a maynooth bound train, I kept walking at a relaxed pace considering i felt in no real rush. Then as i reached the level crossing the train arrived from the maynooth direction en route to dublin. It was a good 8 minutes early and at first i thought it may have been a maynooth - connolly direct, but alas it was in fact the train i intended to catch. I had an important meeting with a lecturer so I jumped on the train assuming I could just pay when I reached Connolly. They have a new booth in Connolly station, on platform 4, which to all intents and purposes is signposted and manned like a ticket booth. I walked to the booth and addressed the attendant, asking to buy a return ticket to maynooth. He said he couldnt sell me a ticket and asked to see an i.d then proceeded to take my details and hand me a fine for 50 euro. I tried to explain my situation, with the train being early etc and was met with a blank stare and told i could contest the fine if i wanted.... Has anyone had any similar experiences in the recent past???

As far as I know if you get the train on the Maynooth line and board the train without a ticket you can pay at the other end. It seems a simple enough issue. I use the train 5 days a week and have done so for the last 3 years, and only 4 times in that period have i had to pay at the other end due to not havin a ticket beforehand, but surely if I was allowed do so in the past then I should still be allowed. Unless of course IE have changed the rules again, without making a point of signposting it, and as a result are happily threatening their diligent loyal if somewhat unfortunate customers to legal action, unless they fill their coffers with fine money.

Mark Gleeson · 25-03-2007, 18:03

The law has never changed it has been fixed since 1984

If the booking office in Coolmine was open you are legally required to have a ticket. There is no way around that, its enshrined in the law. It doesn't matter when the train was due, the 2007 timetable shows 12:39 as the departure time from Coolmine so it wasn't early

If the booking office was closed or unstaffed you are legally premitted to travel without a ticket

Quote:

4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.

If this is the case you are completely correct and Irish Rail by refusing to issue you the ticket you requested in Connolly are breaking the law

Was the booking office open if it was we can take this further and launch all out war

packetswitch · 25-03-2007, 18:49

But if not, I think you're stuck - yes they were wrong in releasing the train early, and you can complain about that, but it's likely (at least given the current attitude on fare evasion, and some other cases discussed on boards.ie) that they would still push for payment. It all turns on whether the ticket office was manned or unmanned. If it was manned, then the early release is unlikely to get you any lighter treatment (although of course you can write and appeal, setting out all the circumstances, and hope for the best). If it was unmanned, you should, as Mark says, be able to challenge it without breaking sweat!

Mark Gleeson · 25-03-2007, 18:58

Sadly in this game with Irish Rail you must play exactly to the rules to win

As packetswitch says if the booking office was unmanned IE have no case and in fact have broken the law themselves by not fullfilling there obligation to sell you a ticket as per section 4 SI 109 1984

The train wasn't early, it was ontime relative to the 2007 timetable, 12:49 was the 2006 time, 12:39 is the 2007 time and isn't a grounds for complaint regardless

ThomasJ · 25-03-2007, 21:15

Just wondering Coolmine has the same issue as Sandymount in a way that people are unable to access the ticket office coming from the RDS when the gates are down but on the city bound platform side of SAndymount station there is an arch/porch with ticket machines and ticket turnstiles. Would it not suit IE to do the same with Coolmine, therefore not giving passengers an excuse not to have a ticket.

Mark Gleeson · 25-03-2007, 21:24

They thought of that, there is temporarily booking office on the Dublin bound side, it also now carries a notice to use the main station if it is closed.

The question remains was the main booking office open?

ThomasJ · 26-03-2007, 11:18

Can i ask why you asked for a return ticket to maynooth at the connolly ticket booth. For one thing there is a difference in fares between maynooth and coolmine. Why pay more. The other thing is maynooth is open all day. This may have confused the guy at the booth. Over the last few weeks coolmine clonsilla castleknock ticket areas shutters were up to enable people to use the ticket vending machines. Clonsilla was closed yesterday so it might be the same with coolmine. But it is hard to tell.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

They thought of that, there is temporarily booking office on the Dublin bound side, it also now carries a notice to use the main station if it is closed.

The question remains was the main booking office open?

The circumstances of the situation are : the train was early, I had no time to traverse the walkover bridge further down the platform get to the ticket office buy a ticket and then rush back over the bridge in time to catch the train which stands static for at most 1 and a half minutes.

Regardless of the ticket office being manned or not ( not, being the more reugular at lunch time). It would have been unfeasible due to the level crossing for me to reach the ticket office in time. Remember, I wasnt late, I was early for this train. The walkover bridge from platform to platform is about 100m from the entrance of the platform making it a bit of a lengthy jaunt to try and sprint fior a ticket.

I dont understand why an automated machine cant be put in place of the ticket booth on the dublin side, hell why not leave the big steal grey box there, then place 2 ticket machines in there, then lock the steel container at 6 pm. It would minimise the instances of ticketless passengers due to early trains as the tickets would be within reach in a few seconds.

25-03-2007, 17:51	#1
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	coolmine station,early train, 50 euro fine I was walking to catch the 12.50 train to connolly at coolmine station. I was perhaps 150 metres from thje level crossing when i noticed the barrier was down, signifying a train was coming into the station. It was 12.38 and i assumed it must have been a maynooth bound train, I kept walking at a relaxed pace considering i felt in no real rush. Then as i reached the level crossing the train arrived from the maynooth direction en route to dublin. It was a good 8 minutes early and at first i thought it may have been a maynooth - connolly direct, but alas it was in fact the train i intended to catch. I had an important meeting with a lecturer so I jumped on the train assuming I could just pay when I reached Connolly. They have a new booth in Connolly station, on platform 4, which to all intents and purposes is signposted and manned like a ticket booth. I walked to the booth and addressed the attendant, asking to buy a return ticket to maynooth. He said he couldnt sell me a ticket and asked to see an i.d then proceeded to take my details and hand me a fine for 50 euro. I tried to explain my situation, with the train being early etc and was met with a blank stare and told i could contest the fine if i wanted.... Has anyone had any similar experiences in the recent past??? As far as I know if you get the train on the Maynooth line and board the train without a ticket you can pay at the other end. It seems a simple enough issue. I use the train 5 days a week and have done so for the last 3 years, and only 4 times in that period have i had to pay at the other end due to not havin a ticket beforehand, but surely if I was allowed do so in the past then I should still be allowed. Unless of course IE have changed the rules again, without making a point of signposting it, and as a result are happily threatening their diligent loyal if somewhat unfortunate customers to legal action, unless they fill their coffers with fine money.

25-03-2007, 18:58	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Sadly in this game with Irish Rail you must play exactly to the rules to win As packetswitch says if the booking office was unmanned IE have no case and in fact have broken the law themselves by not fullfilling there obligation to sell you a ticket as per section 4 SI 109 1984 The train wasn't early, it was ontime relative to the 2007 timetable, 12:49 was the 2006 time, 12:39 is the 2007 time and isn't a grounds for complaint regardless Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 25-03-2007 at 19:47. Reason: correct section of Si 109

25-03-2007, 21:24	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	They thought of that, there is temporarily booking office on the Dublin bound side, it also now carries a notice to use the main station if it is closed. The question remains was the main booking office open? Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 25-03-2007 at 21:28.

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25-03-2007, 18:49	#3
packetswitch Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 216	But if not, I think you're stuck - yes they were wrong in releasing the train early, and you can complain about that, but it's likely (at least given the current attitude on fare evasion, and some other cases discussed on boards.ie) that they would still push for payment. It all turns on whether the ticket office was manned or unmanned. If it was manned, then the early release is unlikely to get you any lighter treatment (although of course you can write and appeal, setting out all the circumstances, and hope for the best). If it was unmanned, you should, as Mark says, be able to challenge it without breaking sweat!

25-03-2007, 21:15	#5
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Just wondering Coolmine has the same issue as Sandymount in a way that people are unable to access the ticket office coming from the RDS when the gates are down but on the city bound platform side of SAndymount station there is an arch/porch with ticket machines and ticket turnstiles. Would it not suit IE to do the same with Coolmine, therefore not giving passengers an excuse not to have a ticket.

26-03-2007, 11:18	#7
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Can i ask why you asked for a return ticket to maynooth at the connolly ticket booth. For one thing there is a difference in fares between maynooth and coolmine. Why pay more. The other thing is maynooth is open all day. This may have confused the guy at the booth. Over the last few weeks coolmine clonsilla castleknock ticket areas shutters were up to enable people to use the ticket vending machines. Clonsilla was closed yesterday so it might be the same with coolmine. But it is hard to tell.