[Ir Times letter] Irish on the Luas

Navan Junction · 23-03-2006, 08:05

Irish Times Letter: Irish on the Luas
23.03.06

Madam, - Yesterday, for the first time, I took the Luas to St James's Hospital.

While I was delighted at the service offered by the line stopping in the heart of the St James's compound, I was somewhat bemused by the Irish form of St James's in both the written and oral announcements: 'Ospidéal San Séamas'. 'San'? What does this mean? Literally, it would mean "The Hospital In The James" - "san" being a shortening of "ins an", or "in the". The Irish for saint is "naomh", and indeed on St James's Hospital's own literature, they refer to "Ospidéal Naomh Shéamais".

Are there any plans to correct this? If the sign writer had incorrectly used English (as in, say, St James's Bordello) I am sure they would have no hesitation in correcting it. Why was the same not applied to the Irish? I also have to wonder if there are more instances of which I am not aware.

For the amount of money expended on the Luas, could they not at least get the bilingual usage correct?

- Yours, etc,

MICHAEL O'RIORDAN, Monasterevin, Co Kildare.

alek smart · 23-03-2006, 12:15

Mick O Riordan....Hmmmmm....I wonder .......Could it be the same firebrand who led the Irish Communist Party during the years when it was dangerous to be a lapsed Catholic,never mind a Red Revolutionary....?

However the "San" Sheamuis issue has appeared before in the letters pages and was given the benefit of a very thorough response by the RPA`s ever watchful PR team.

It appears that the RPA are prepared to delve much further back into the Celtic Mishts than even the most Gaelic inspired amongst us.

They appear confident,and are supported in this assertion by some very well qualified and erudite Rev Professors that "San" is indeed a VERY ancient useage for the Anglicised word Saint.

It appears that during excavations around the Carrickmines Castle site and out in the Meath boondocks the archaelogists found scraps of old flyers referring to San Marino...San Lorenzo...San Antonio....San Jose etc etc as well as a mysterious reference to San Pit,which was found along the N81 by a road sweeper attempting to part the grey sea......It`s quite a conundrum and the RPA are concerned that further investigations by their associates in the NRA and the Dail Committee on public accounts could delay completion of their projects leading to the San`s of time running out for them....

In the meantime let us remember our heritage and in the words of the Waltons Programme ..."If ye must sing a song-----Sing an Irish one "

Navan Junction · 24-03-2006, 07:49

Madam, - Michael O'Riordan (Letters, March 23rd) queries the Irish version of the name of St James's Hospital, given as San Séamas on the Luas stop at the hospital.

In my experience, the Irish signage on the Luas and environs is exemplary - accurate, grammatical and above all, natural.

It is clear that pains were successfully taken.

The question of "San Séamas" was extensively discussed on these pages some time ago.

The practice of using "San" in Irish for apostles and foreign saints has the sanction of centuries of usage. - Is mise le meas,

AONGHUS Ó hALMHAIN, Páirc na Seilbhe, Baile an Chinnéidigh, Co Chill Mhantáin.

alek smart · 24-03-2006, 13:28

There...u see..? and that`s in the Paper of Record !!

23-03-2006, 08:05	#1
Navan Junction Really Regular Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Navan Posts: 305	[Ir Times letter] Irish on the Luas Irish Times Letter: Irish on the Luas 23.03.06 Madam, - Yesterday, for the first time, I took the Luas to St James's Hospital. While I was delighted at the service offered by the line stopping in the heart of the St James's compound, I was somewhat bemused by the Irish form of St James's in both the written and oral announcements: 'Ospidéal San Séamas'. 'San'? What does this mean? Literally, it would mean "The Hospital In The James" - "san" being a shortening of "ins an", or "in the". The Irish for saint is "naomh", and indeed on St James's Hospital's own literature, they refer to "Ospidéal Naomh Shéamais". Are there any plans to correct this? If the sign writer had incorrectly used English (as in, say, St James's Bordello) I am sure they would have no hesitation in correcting it. Why was the same not applied to the Irish? I also have to wonder if there are more instances of which I am not aware. For the amount of money expended on the Luas, could they not at least get the bilingual usage correct? - Yours, etc, MICHAEL O'RIORDAN, Monasterevin, Co Kildare.

24-03-2006, 07:49	#3
Navan Junction Really Regular Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Navan Posts: 305	[Ir Times Letter] 24.03.06 Madam, - Michael O'Riordan (Letters, March 23rd) queries the Irish version of the name of St James's Hospital, given as San Séamas on the Luas stop at the hospital. In my experience, the Irish signage on the Luas and environs is exemplary - accurate, grammatical and above all, natural. It is clear that pains were successfully taken. The question of "San Séamas" was extensively discussed on these pages some time ago. The practice of using "San" in Irish for apostles and foreign saints has the sanction of centuries of usage. - Is mise le meas, AONGHUS Ó hALMHAIN, Páirc na Seilbhe, Baile an Chinnéidigh, Co Chill Mhantáin.

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23-03-2006, 12:15	#2
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Mick O Riordan....Hmmmmm....I wonder .......Could it be the same firebrand who led the Irish Communist Party during the years when it was dangerous to be a lapsed Catholic,never mind a Red Revolutionary....? However the "San" Sheamuis issue has appeared before in the letters pages and was given the benefit of a very thorough response by the RPA`s ever watchful PR team. It appears that the RPA are prepared to delve much further back into the Celtic Mishts than even the most Gaelic inspired amongst us. They appear confident,and are supported in this assertion by some very well qualified and erudite Rev Professors that "San" is indeed a VERY ancient useage for the Anglicised word Saint. It appears that during excavations around the Carrickmines Castle site and out in the Meath boondocks the archaelogists found scraps of old flyers referring to San Marino...San Lorenzo...San Antonio....San Jose etc etc as well as a mysterious reference to San Pit,which was found along the N81 by a road sweeper attempting to part the grey sea......It`s quite a conundrum and the RPA are concerned that further investigations by their associates in the NRA and the Dail Committee on public accounts could delay completion of their projects leading to the San`s of time running out for them.... In the meantime let us remember our heritage and in the words of the Waltons Programme ..."If ye must sing a song-----Sing an Irish one "

24-03-2006, 13:28	#4
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	There...u see..? and that`s in the Paper of Record !!