[07/12/2015] - Sligo Service Disruption

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/weather...-storm-desmond

Weather Watch: Storm Desmond

06 December 2015

Bus Transfers in operation between Carrick-on-Shannon & Longford due to Flooding. All other services operating, some minor delays.

Storm Desmond Update: Sunday 6th December @ 18:50hrs

Sligo line:

There are currently bus transfers in place between Carrick-on-Shannon and Longford due to flooding. This is expected to continue until at least the afternoon of Monday 7th December.

All other services are operating on all routes with some minor delays.

Up to 40 minute delays to services so perhaps rethink 05.45 service plans if you are working.

[James Howard]

Extremely uncomfortable journey this morning. It would appear that the only option was to split the 8-car Longford commuter and use half of that for the 0545 Sligo train. There were a few people standing from Edgeworthstown and pretty much nobody from Mullingar got a seat.

Any idiot could tell on Saturday night that the line was going to be flooded. This happens every year and yet there doesn't seem to be a sensible plan in place. Really looking forward to the next fortnight.

[ThomasJ]

16:00hrs Connolly has been cancelled again tonight (Monday) just got a tweet about it.

[James Howard]

They've just announced it will be midweek at the earliest before it's back to normal and there will be "reduced capacity" (in english - massive overcrowding) on all of the evening services because nobody in Irish Rail thought to read the weather forecast so they've got three or four trainsets stuck on the wrong side.

Anybody with any experience of the Sligo line could have seen that it would have been wise to at least make sure that the 7-car ICR unit went no further than Longford on Saturday. This spot floods every year and I knew myself at about lunchtime on Saturday that there would be no trains on Monday morning. I was just hoping (in vain) that somebody at Irish Rail would have the brains to think to avoid getting everything stuck in Sligo.

[James Howard]

This evening's plan seems to be to cancel the 16:00 and operate the 17:05 with a fraction of the normal seating capacity.

[berneyarms]

Presumably there are several trains stuck on the Sligo side of the flooding - at least one of them is probably a 7-car set, including the set that remains there from Friday.

It's not going to be easy to replace that.

[Jamie2k9]

Presumably there are several trains stuck on the Sligo side of the flooding - at least one of them is probably a 7-car set, including the set that remains there from Friday.

It's not going to be easy to replace that.

The point been is how stupid and incompetent Irish Rail are, they should of moved all trains out of Sligo on Saturday evening as the area is known for flooding and even it didn't flood they should of bee moved.

Anywhere here is an update:

Weather Watch: Storm Desmond

07 December 2015

Bus Transfers in operation between Carrick-on-Shannon & Longford due to Flooding. All other services operating, some minor delays.

Storm Desmond Update: Monday 7th December @ 14:40hrs

Sligo line:

There are currently bus transfers in place between Carrick-on-Shannon and Longford due to flooding with delays of up to 60mins to each service. This is expected to continue until Midweek as water levels are still rising.

16:00hrs Dublin Connolly to Sligo has been cancelled
Reduced Capacity:

Due to train sets being blocked by flooding on the Sligo line, the following services will operate with reduced capacity this evening;

Monday 7th

15:43hrs Pearse St. to Drogheda
17:05hrs Dublin Connolly to Sligo
17:15hrs Dublin Connolly to Longford
18:15hrs Pearse St. to Drogheda
Tueday 8th

05:40hrs Longford to Pearse St.
05:45hrs Sligo - Dublin Connolly
06:15hrs Longford to Pearse St.
07:00hrs Sligo - Dublin Connolly
All other services are operating on all routes with some minor delays.

Any service disruption arising from Storm Desmond will be updated on this page or follow us on Twitter as we will post updates if there are any changes.

[James Howard]

The driver on the 1705 announced that there were 5 sets stuck in Sligo. Unbelievable messing.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

The driver on the 1705 announced that there were 5 sets stuck in Sligo. Unbelievable messing.

On any given night there are normally five trains in Sligo - the two sets on the 05:45, and the three sets for the 07:00, 09:00 and 11:00.

Nothing really surprising about that.

There have been similar flooding incidents on the British railway network and trains stranded north of Carlisle and in Holyhead in the last few days and trains either cancelled, curtailed or operating with reduced capacity as a result. I didn't see train operators moving their fleet "just in case".

There are limits to the "what-if" planning that can be done.

By that reckoning Ryanair should have moved their entire Dublin based fleet from Dublin to Shannon on Friday night rather than cancel their entire flight programme out of Dublin airport.

[Jamie2k9]

On any given night there are normally five trains in Sligo - the two sets on the 05:45, and the three sets for the 07:00, 09:00 and 11:00.

Nothing really surprising about that.

There have been similar flooding incidents on the British railway network and trains stranded north of Carlisle and in Holyhead in the last few days and trains either cancelled, curtailed or operating with reduced capacity as a result. I didn't see train operators moving their fleet "just in case".

There are limits to the "what-if" planning that can be done.

By that reckoning Ryanair should have moved their entire Dublin based fleet from Dublin to Shannon on Friday night rather than cancel their entire flight programme out of Dublin airport.

In the UK yes there could be some trains stuck however using the West Cost main line it is very possible to get sets back down South by heading back north and heading down East Cost etc.

The Sligo line did not "suddenly" rise up on Saturday night and flood, I expect waters were very high on Saturday and given the whether forecast and a Red working for significant amounts rain foretasted this was clearly going to happen and Irish Rail said earlier in the day the first service out of Sligo would be reduced speed because in case of damage. Line staff were tucked up in bed on Saturday night when either overnight inspections were required and immediate train removal should of taken place if waters were getting high.

There is no excuses here, precautions should of been taken and clearly were not.

[Inniskeen]

Am I right in thinking that the Sligo line closed overnight Saturday/Sunday between Longford and Dromod/Carrick on Shannon ?

I can understand that it might have been somewhat obvious that the line was at risk of closure at the same location as in previous years given the very heavy rainfall. Having said that I am not sure that I would have been overly impressed to be thrown out onto a bus at Longford in the miserable conditions last Saturday night just in case sets became trapped in Sligo and disrupted services on monday morning.

Would there have been sufficient drivers available in Sligo to bring the sets up to Longford on Saturday night ? Maybe a landslide might have closed the line on the Dublin side of Longford anyway and the whole exercise would have been pointless ?

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Am I right in thinking that the Sligo line closed overnight Saturday/Sunday between Longford and Dromod/Carrick on Shannon ?

I can understand that it might have been somewhat obvious that the line was at risk of closure at the same location as in previous years given the very heavy rainfall. Having said that I am not sure that I would have been overly impressed to be thrown out onto a bus at Longford in the miserable conditions last Saturday night just in case sets became trapped in Sligo and disrupted services on monday morning.

Would there have been sufficient drivers available in Sligo to bring the sets up to Longford on Saturday night ? Maybe a landslide might have closed the line on the Dublin side of Longford anyway and the whole exercise would have been pointless ?

Precisely - couldn't have put it better if I tried.

Hindsight is a great thing.

[Jamie2k9]

Am I right in thinking that the Sligo line closed overnight Saturday/Sunday between Longford and Dromod/Carrick on Shannon ?

I can understand that it might have been somewhat obvious that the line was at risk of closure at the same location as in previous years given the very heavy rainfall. Having said that I am not sure that I would have been overly impressed to be thrown out onto a bus at Longford in the miserable conditions last Saturday night just in case sets became trapped in Sligo and disrupted services on monday morning.

Would there have been sufficient drivers available in Sligo to bring the sets up to Longford on Saturday night ? Maybe a landslide might have closed the line on the Dublin side of Longford anyway and the whole exercise would have been pointless ?

When you say closed what's different to Mon-Fri?

The weather forecast was crystal clear and while just about everybody else took precautions etc Irish Rail did nothing in a flood area. As for the logistics yes it would be complicated however there is drivers in Longford/Sligo etc as well as all units are not required on Sundays so they could of been moved.

If the storm had forecast S/E Winds and heavy rain with flooding expected do you think IE would park 7 units in Waterford (prior to current set up), not a chance. I know it's not like with like but the same principal applies.

Somebody really dropped the ball here and with more bad weather on the way and one would expect plenty more storms in the coming months will IE do anything to prevent this from happening again. Very unlikely.

You have a lot of commuting traffic been forced to change plans for an indefinite period of time combined with been crammed onto 50% less capacity as all Dublin/Sligo/Dublin services are operating with up to 60 minute delays. The very least they could do is advance bus transfers by 45 minutes but no yet again they refuse to do the sensible yet again.

IE always take 24 to 48 hours to click on what is required in bad weather, it's the same usual story with cold spells IE do nothing for a while until the penny drops and they say right lads points freeze so we need to ensure full services operates a day or two after the cold weather kicks in.

Would be interested to know when the last inspection was carried out on Saturday as if it wasn't Saturday evening at around 21.00 then real questions need to be asked.

I would fully accept if it was an area on the line which never flooded before but didn't it spend some time closed not so long back.

Precisely - couldn't have put it better if I tried.

Hindsight is a great thing.

It is however IE never lean anything when it comes to weather related disruption.

It is not unreasonable to have contingency plans in place at times of expected bad weather, such a plan should of been in place for flood blackspots, Ennis/Limerick, Waterford and Sligo etc.

[James Howard]

My point is that Irish Rail should have known that there was a high risk of the line flooding between Longford and Dromod. The risk of a landslide is unknown since it doesn't happen regularly and Irish Rail can't be expected to deal with. Airlines actually quite frequently move aircraft if they know a major snowstorm is coming to avoid getting them stuck and this is exactly the same situation.

All it would have taken to move some units would be one driver. If they'd move the 7 car set that sits there all weekend, that would have been enough to keep things going with minimal disruption to anyone other than the driver who was moving the train. If they wanted to move more, I believe they can move 18 units in one consist although there are very few places they'd be able to cross such a big set on the Sligo line.

Now that it's all gone pear-shaped they could help things out a lot by treating the 0545 a bit differently and get it back on time by bussing the passengers from the Sligo side all the way to Dublin for the duration. There are never more that 40 or 50 passengers on that train before Longford and almost none of them travel every day.

[Jamie2k9]

Don't expect it back soon water is rising not falling before more rain is due!

[James Howard]

Based on the current weather forecast, it will take a dry week to get it clear. So we're looking at late next week at the earliest. I just asked Irish Rail on Twitter about the possibility of refunds on commuter passes since the service is not currently usable if you're travelling from Longford every day but nothing doing there.

I've managed to get to work from home for a couple of days so with any luck I'll only have 4 or 5 more journeys before I finish up but it will be rough going for anybody having to commute every day.

What really sticks in my craw about this is that this has happened about 4 times over the last 6 or 7 years yet there is no planning in place to mitigate the effects. Nor has any effort been made to raise the track-bed or otherwise resolve the flooding problem. It is not good enough to expect commuters to put up with spending an extra 90 minutes a day on horribly overcrowded trains for a couple of weeks a year.

[Thomas J Stamp]

there were reports on twitter last night of very bad overcrowding on the evening train.

Is moving one or two sets out of sligo to beyond expected flooded stretches of the track a feasible option? I take it that it would be uneconomic to food defend the line?

[Jamie2k9]

They simply dropped the ball here and it was flaged well in advance that flodding in the North West was expected. They got a warning on Saturday morning with flooding in Sligo station impacting signilling. Moving sets would not be a problem with planning and even if it was a last minute thing its more than doable.

As for economics, raising the line up a couple of foot would go a long way I expect and not really require significant captial spend. Given its a lake, it will take a lot of time to clear.

Question is what will they do next time, getting caught once might be acceptable to a degree but if it floods again this winter and units left in Sligo the NTA should be demanding answers.

I also say the reduced capacity on services currently is them been very lazy or un willing to swap rosters around. They could free up additional capacity if they put their minds to it for Mon-Thur at the very least. I know exactly where it can come from but I do not expect any change to happen. At the very least 05.45/17.05 could have extra capacoty but not be at normal capacity.

[James Howard]

This isn't the first time they got caught with this flooding. This is at least the fourth time over the last six years. From their reports, the line is under about a foot of water, so it wouldn't seem like it would cost millions to raise the trackbed by a couple of feet. They should have been on to resolving this the second time it happened. But you see this pattern all over the country where people are mopping out their houses for the second time in 6 years because nobody in power could be bothered fulfilling their public duty and investing in the proper flood defences and planning.

The fact that this is happening for a prolonged period every winter is exactly why I think it needs to be brought to the NTA. I often think that Irish Rail don't really have any respect for the capital assets they have control over possibly because they fund rolling stock out of gifts from the government rather than as part of their normal budget. This is the logic that results in the throwing out perfectly good 20 year-old carriages because it is operationally cheaper to replace it with new rolling stock, but if you considered the interest payment on the cost of replacement, it would have been far cheaper to muddle on. By my reckoning, they have over 20 million euro worth of public assets sitting idle in Sligo for a fortnight because of this.

In fairness, the simple change of bussing the Sligo passengers all the way to Dublin for the 0545 has made a massive difference to me and the bulk of the regular users. But traffic is very light this morning. It's a four car 22K and my car is around half-occupied after Enfield.

[Thomas J Stamp]

they'd want to be careful with that bus service, some scamp may start one up in opposition if its a great success after the flooding. that happened after the malahide viaduct thing.

Its interesting to note that in the national newspapers we appear to have a thing called transport infrastructure ireland. They seem to only appear to issue toll notices for the motorways.

maybe if they took over the lines from IE it may result in a form of capital investment potential along the (albeit hotly contested) Irish Water Model which IE simply do not appear to be in a position to provide.