Exit validation finally arrives

[Mark Gleeson]

Long awaited exit validation has finally arrived at Grand Canal Dock and by the looks of the queue this morning the get out it wasn't a altogether smooth operation

Of course muppet boy from CIE was out on Sunday for the photo, note he is entering the station at this point not leaving, kind of pointless, nor is Dr Lynch using his own annual ticket he is using a crouzet dummy test ticket

[Kevin K Kelehan]

Validation equipment is a necessary addition however the layout of these machines does not look encouraging in the way that lining them up at a 90 degree angle with clear demarcation between entry and exit stiles as on other commuter neyworks where they are used.

One fears that many stations simply may not have been designed to accomodate sufficient quantities of these machines

[Mark Gleeson]

There are major delays leaving Grand Canal Dock in the morning as a result of the new system.

Certain stations will be able to cope, there is a huge space in Tara Street that would be suitable

If the entire plan is to reduce fare evasion the best option would be to install the machines at lightly used stations where you currently don't get challenged for a ticket

Exit validation becomes important when you more to smartcard ticketing as you need to tag on and tag off

[al2637]

Is Exit validation really such a good thing? I can understand the argument about preventing fare evasion, but we should really be weighing it up against ease of use.

Personally I'd like to see open platforms with entrances/exits from all sides. There is nothing worse than having to walk all the way around or over a station to get in, only to have to walk back again to the opposite side of the platform.

It works fine in A'dam :-) and also seems to work perfectly well on the Luas!! Really makes the system nicer to use.

[philip]

Nevermind a bunch of fancy barriers. The only way to reduce far evasion is to present the would be offender with a serious possibility of actually getting caught. These machines in remote stations will do nothing to stop the evaders hopping over them or a nearby fence.

They should open the system up completely and mont regular undercover checks a la Deutsche Bahn. The doors close then the oul wan next to ou produces ID and demands your ticket! I have seen it and there's no escape from the 'wache' doing their 'knotrolle'.

[PaulM]

The thing that puts me off getting the DART home (Pearse or Tara) is trying to get out of the station. People using the turnstyles (that is what they're there for) and 'inspectors' letting people walk through the exit gates.

If exit validation stop people walking through these gates then it has done it's job.

[al2637]

Indeed, it's the same in A'dam.

Metro pulls in, a group of 8+ inspectors get on coming in via every door. Everyone getting off at that stop has their ticket checked, they then move in and check everyone elses ticket after the doors close.

Unlike the IE crowd, who can be quite predictable...

Summer Mornings - Howth for da breakfast
Winter Evenings - Clontarf Road (on da way home)
Afternoons/Nighttime - Non existant

[Mark]

The RPA were trying to convince IE to go to an open system with the honour fare, smart cards and flash ticket checking.

Its possible but a long way away and much easier implimented with proper integrated fares and ticketing.

[Mark Gleeson]

The potential revenue loss on the rail system is much greater than on Luas. I think people fail to realise how much revenue is being lost, which results in increased fares.

Its trivial to fare evade on Luas during the rush hour as its so crushed, I met the Luas revenue protection people once I waved my smart card and that was it that said someone was issued with a fine at 10:30 on a Sunday

The barrier is the typical solution on mass transit system, very handy on underground systems as you know exactly how many passengers in the system and also you can lock the gates instantly if needs be

The IE revenue team where in Sydney Parade southbound this morning, they are no longer predictable, game plan is to stake out one station in the morning and a different one in the evening (since on train checks are not feasible) then travel off peak

[PaulM]

My idea help to 'poor IE's revenue loss' would be to make it all open plan and redeploy the hardworking station masters as ticket checkers.

[Kevin K Kelehan]

I almost agree but in the absence of onboard ticket sales this could prove problematic for those who arrive at stations without coins. I remember waiting 45 minutes for a station manager to arrive once to buy a ticket; the sign of course said 'Back in 10 minutes'

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Kevin K Kelehan

I almost agree but in the absence of onboard ticket sales this could prove problematic for those who arrive at stations without coins. I remember waiting 45 minutes for a station manager to arrive once to buy a ticket; the sign of course said 'Back in 10 minutes'

I had forgotten the DART frequency issue. Still and all. The Luas manages to get customers to bring the correct amount with them.

[al2637]

Originally Posted by Kevin K Kelehan

I almost agree but in the absence of onboard ticket sales this could prove problematic for those who arrive at stations without coins.

But don't the machines already accept notes? AND Credit Cards? or am I mistaken...

[Mark Gleeson]

The machines take coin, cash and credit cards but they won't take €50 notes unless the change is less than a certain amount (€18 I think). The machines are limited in what they can sell

I tried the exit validation out, obviously with practice people will get faster going through, very London Underground style though. Notable increase in the width of the gate as well

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The machines take coin, cash and credit cards but they won't take €50 notes unless the change is less than a certain amount (€18 I think). The machines are limited in what they can sell

Yet they work puerfectly well on the Luas. Really it comes down to IE.

[Mark Gleeson]

The machines work fine, the €18 limit is a legal one not an random choice

One interesting thing with exit validation is a extra wide turnstile, big enough to take a wheelchair. They are all open turnstiles so there is no bar in the way a London Underground style door opens

[PaulM]

How is GCD layed out now?
Is there seperate exit and entry turnstyles?
How many of each?
What used to be there?

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The machines work fine, the €18 limit is a legal one not an random choice

I'm not doubting the machines, I'm doubting the motivation to move to a ticketless system. Luas manages fine with it's limit (I assume it isn't more than €18) so I don't see why IE can't other than they don't want to.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Paul Mulcahy

How is GCD layed out now?
Is there seperate exit and entry turnstyles?
How many of each?
What used to be there?

3 turnstiles, dual use both entry and exit
The one on the left as you exit (right as you enter) is the extra wide one
Same location as before, same number as before

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

3 turnstiles, dual use both entry and exit

I can already see this failing. At busy times people will be fighting over entry or exit and it causing huge delay, worse than my present gripe. IIRC in London they have seperate ones for entry and exit.

Open plan IE. It works for the Luas and if you bothered your arses it could work for you too!