Rumours of Waterford station downgrade

[RPI]

I was wondering if anyone had heard what the situation is regarding Waterford station?

There are rumours that it is being converted into a one platform terminus with all bar one of the running lines through the station being ripped out along with all the signalling.

They seem incredible - no other major city terminus has only one platform - but I am concerned that given IE's peculiar attitude to railway operations that they are using the rockfall as a pretext for a substantial downgrade of passenger rail services in the South East.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Jamie2k9]

Word is 16 million required to step back the rock face, x ray showed large fissures in the rock.

Can only see it being done is if the RAUI report say it has to be done, money or no money.

Guess we will have to see what happens on Monday.

[Traincustomer]

What is anticipated to happen on Monday? A meeting?

[Jamie2k9]

The lifting of tracks starts Monday if the rumour is true, take a look on boards.

I'm not to worried about a one platform station but it gives no operational flexibility. Just hope there is no train failures in the station.

The rock face will have to be done at some point so it's being put on the long finger. How do they hope to stop another slide?

[Colm Moore]

Comment from Barry Kenny.

Originally Posted by Barry Kenny

As you know, we've had temporary working arrangements in place since the start of January at Waterford while the cliff face works were continuing.

The cliff works are taking longer than anticipated so we have made the decision to remove a couple of point ends next week to make the temporary arrangements more efficient. This is not irreversible and does not indicate a longer term plan.

As we've said in public already, there are decisions ahead in the shorter term regarding possible operation of all signalling in the station area from Waterford West cabin, and in the longer term about the station as a whole given the increasing frequency of flood disruption over this and recent winters.

However, the shorter term issues are still under consideration, and there has been no detailed analysis of the longer term issues at this point (and needless to say, no funding to address longer term issues either). So as of now, all that is happening is ongoing cliff face works and minor points rationalisation to facilitate the temporary working arrangements in the station area.

[Inniskeen]

Given the greatly diminished scale of operations at Waterford, rationalisation was inevitable. It would appear from reading Barry Kenny's statement that the intention is to modify the track layout so that the only access to tracks east of the redundant overhead signal box will be via the goods yard. The passenger platform will probably be accessed via a single line from Waterford West. It is possible that all arriving trains will have to stop twice between Newrath and Waterford until a more standard method of working is established. I would guess that the ultimate arrangements at Waterford will be similar to those at Sligo, Wexford or Galway - ie a crossing loop immediately on the Dublin side of the station leading to one or perhaps two platforms.

[Jamie2k9]

Given the greatly diminished scale of operations at Waterford, rationalisation was inevitable. It would appear from reading Barry Kenny's statement that the intention is to modify the track layout so that the only access to tracks east of the redundant overhead signal box will be via the goods yard. The passenger platform will probably be accessed via a single line from Waterford West. It is possible that all arriving trains will have to stop twice between Newrath and Waterford until a more standard method of working is established. I would guess that the ultimate arrangements at Waterford will be similar to those at Sligo, Wexford or Galway - ie a crossing loop immediately on the Dublin side of the station leading to one or perhaps two platforms.

It may of happened but not so soon as they only finished do works with all the ponts they are removnign around November.

The statment from Barry dons't say a lot but only more less confirms that evertyuhgn arport from that one bay platform and the central line through the station to belview are being disconnected.

Him saying its "not reversable" is laughable. When have IE ever reversed decisions, it would take this to be discueed in the Dail for it to be given any consideration to be chagned.

As for the short and long term solutions suposedly under consideration, if P5 is extended once the tracks/points are removed to allow a 6 peice operatio. It will say a lot about the short term solutions being considered as it will be it most likely be the short term one. Hence the removal of points I expect.

[haddockman]

How are trains signalled from the platforms at present with the central box closed?

[Jamie2k9]

How are trains signalled from the platforms at present with the central box closed?

All manually, one train in the section at a time. The crossovers at end of P5 are being manaully swtiched to up and down lines and then Waterford West takes over where the train moves form Limerick line to Dublin line and CTC starts once it swtiches over.

[Traincustomer]

A brief point with reference to the longer term issue about the station as a whole mentioned in the IÉ quotation:

Any ultimate relocation of Waterford Plunkett station, would need to be mitigated by at least one appropriate measure to compensate for the increased physical distance between the station and city/central business district.

For instance,

Locating it at Sallypark would necessitate a dedicated bus link between the station and city.

Locating it east of the existing station would perhaps lend to the possibility of a pedestrian and cycleway bridge across the river.

There is the ultimate possibility of razing the entire current station and running the track to Belview and Rosslare through the site furthest away from the Mount Misery rockface. Hopefully such a draconian measure would not be needed. As an aside the red-brick eastern part of the station is possibly a protected structure.

[Jamie2k9]

Seems to be some movement on the rock fall in the last little while. Not sure what they are doing but they appear to possibly be building some form of defense along the rock face.

[Jamie2k9]

Extended platform due to open soon, almost complete. They are also back to using both signal cabins, something I didn't expect to happen. If it's save for staff to use that then can they really justify not re opening the main platform.

Interesting to see what impact the extended platform may have on future flooding as it extends just past the bridge and may change the flow of water, may benefit the main platform.

The accident report didn't really state much about issues with the rock and didn't say IE couldn't use it! In fact it was in good condition generally. IE being vague on whats happening, as many in the station believed it would re open but a few months on and they started to extend the bay.

Do we have any definite answers from IE?

[Inniskeen]

When you say using both signal cabins what do you mean ?

[Jamie2k9]

When you say using both signal cabins what do you mean ?

After the rockfall it was completely manual for some months. Central Cabin at the platforms was completely closed off and IE then began works to transfer all station workings to Waterford West. They renewed all track/signals between Belview and Sallypack (Dublin side) including main platform and also renewed the bay platform. Work on extending the platform began some months ago. (longest work in history) but recently the Central Cabin access cordon was removed and they are using it for some form of operation as lights are on and have saw staff going up. Can't really tell what they might be controlling as all those "not irreversible" works under taken in the above post by BK don't appear to me to be reversible any longer.

Both platforms have their own lines once you arrive at West cabin, you are no longer able to cross a train between Central and West if any severe delays happened which they have previously done. They had the second running line and crossover (buffer blocked, crossover) but all were lifted in recent months.

[Inniskeen]

Jamie is it not the case that you still have to go through the goods yard to reach the main platform at Waterford ? The main platform will not be brought back into use until points are provided to allow trains approach as at present via the passenger running line and then divert to main platform close to the station.

Waterford Central is not currently being used for signalling purposes and it is extremely unlikely that there will be two operational signal boxes in the future. Given the very simple layout it is likely that the entire operation in Waterford will be transferred to CTC in a few years with an emergency control facility somewhere in the station, perhaps in Waterford West.

[Jamie2k9]

Jamie is it not the case that you still have to go through the goods yard to reach the main platform at Waterford ? The main platform will not be brought back into use until points are provided to allow trains approach as at present via the passenger running line and then divert to main platform close to the station.

Waterford West is not currently being used for signalling purposes and it is extremely unlikely that there will be two operational signal boxes in the future. Given the very simple layout planned for the future, it is likely that the entire operation in Waterford will be transferred to CTC in a few years with an emergency control facility somewhere in the station, perhaps in Waterford West.

Correct about access but if it was a case of waiting for a set of points to re connect the main platform then why spend money on extending a platform which is taking months if they expect to reopen the main platform. Something doesn't quiet add up. A set of points cant be more expensive than extending a platform? We have spent 15 months waiting a few more wouldn't made much difference!

Not saying the extended platform wont be useful if the main re opens for operations to.

Didn't notice West was no longer in use guess that explains Central re opening. I agree about CTC transfer however that wont be until Limerick J is closed or upgraded as thats locally controlled between Waterford/Carrick I believe.

[Inniskeen]

Jamie, I have edited my previous post due to typo, West is in use and is the only operational cabin. The intention is that Waterford will ultimately be able to handle one six car in the bay and a somewhat larger train (or perhaps two) in the main platform.

[dowlingm]

It's a shame there isn't room at Belview (or money to do it) to push yard operations/timber/rolling stock storage out there, and then CTC the resulting simplified layout including the Carrick-on-Suir-Waterford section as was I believe done for Tipperary-Limerick Junction when the latter cabins closed.

[Jamie2k9]

Jamie, I have edited my previous post due to typo, West is in use and is the only operational cabin. The intention is that Waterford will ultimately be able to handle one six car in the bay and a somewhat larger train (or perhaps two) in the main platform.

Will be useful, guess I am just very unconvinced and will be until it re opens. I still don't see the reasoning behind extending the bay platform and yet not installing a set of points to the main platform when they completed the works some time ago. I know why they will need the bay platform in use because the running line to Belview has being removed and services using the main platform would block freight services however I hope this isn't the reason for the delay to reopening.

It's a shame there isn't room at Belview (or money to do it) to push yard operations/timber/rolling stock storage out there, and then CTC the resulting simplified layout including the Carrick-on-Suir-Waterford section as was I believe done for Tipperary-Limerick Junction when the latter cabins closed.

Wouldn't need to, yard is very simple now, coming off the Dublin line one line branches off passenger and then 3/4 others off that before some have buffers and the other few come back into one and onto main platform.

Could be wrong but the timber goes to Belview, not sure the reasoning the company transfer by road from Waterford to Belview.

[Inniskeen]

Jamie points won't go in until an appropriate signalling system is in place. There are two choices either re-open Waterford Central temporaily (or permanently) and use elements of the mechanical signalling frame or control the new points and signals from Waterford West.