Slow Service

lambo77 · 08-10-2013, 18:15

Has anyone noticed the slower service recently in both directions on the sligo - connolly line. There seem to be a few new speed restrctiions between Killucan and Enfield.

Anybody know what they are?/

Jamie2k9 · 08-10-2013, 20:20

Quote:

Has anyone noticed the slower service recently in both directions on the sligo - connolly line. There seem to be a few new speed restrctiions between Killucan and Enfield.

Anybody know what they are?/

It could be anything to be honest, small section or rail may need replacing, track bed need to fixed, track alignment issue are the main causes of TSR. It could be fixed within days, weeks or months just depends on what it is and weather its a major safety threat.

Colm Moore · 09-10-2013, 04:26

Leaf fall season and passing loops?

James Howard · 09-10-2013, 06:49

The 545 from Sligo was close to 10 minutes late Monday and Tuesday this week. Monday morning was delayed before Edgeworthstown and Tuesday was due to a Maynooth service running late.

As Colm suggested, I suspect it is leaf fall and the dire lack of passing loops between Maynooth and Mullingar that make it impossible to recover delays.

grainne whale · 09-10-2013, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

Leaf fall season and passing loops?

Gosh, however do they manage in other countries.

berneyarms · 09-10-2013, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by grainne whale

Gosh, however do they manage in other countries.

Several lines in Britain have special leaf fall timetables that add extra time to the journey to account for the wheelslip problem.

That particular problem is something all rail operators have to face.

James Howard · 09-10-2013, 09:23

Given how padded the Irish Rail timetables are already, I would rather they just do their best with the existing timetables rather than just have them waiting around even longer to catch up with the timetable when things actually go right.

My morning train takes 102 minutes for 69 miles using an ICR as it is currently with 5 stops. How much longer should it take?

grainne whale · 09-10-2013, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Several lines in Britain have special leaf fall timetables that add extra time to the journey to account for the wheelslip problem.

That particular problem is something all rail operators have to face.

No actually I'm talking about countries with a large areas of deciduous trees. ie USA - New England.

berneyarms · 09-10-2013, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by grainne whale

No actually I'm talking about countries with a large areas of deciduous trees. ie USA - New England.

They all have the same problem - this is not something specific to Ireland.

grainne whale · 09-10-2013, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms

They all have the same problem - this is not something specific to Ireland.

Fantastic - we can send a spacecraft to the outer reaches of our solar system but we cant solve wheelslip.

berneyarms · 09-10-2013, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by grainne whale

Fantastic - we can send a spacecraft to the outer reaches of our solar system but we can solve wheelslip.

Whether you like it or not, it's the truth - you seem to think that I'm making this up, but I can assure you wheelslip is a problem that every rail operator faces.

Making smart comments about it is not going to change that.

grainne whale · 09-10-2013, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Whether you like it or not, it's the truth - you seem to think that I'm making this up, but I can assure you wheelslip is a problem that every rail operator faces.

Making smart comments about it is not going to change that.

I'm only stating the obvious

James Howard · 09-10-2013, 13:31

Leaf-slip is a problem in other countries (See wikipedia) but it is particularly bad in Ireland and Britain because of the amount of rain we get around the time leaves are falling.

The delays are nowhere near as bad as they were a few years ago when Irish Rail were using locomotives on the Sligo line but when you have a single line railway where most trains have to cross with two others, knock-on delays are inevitable when you have poor traction.

The only real way to deal with it would be to provide more crossing points to mitigate knock-on delays or to run trains to clean off the leaves with high-pressure water or steam. One thing that would help at a relatively low cost would be to get the second platform at Enfield back in action so that it could be used as an unscheduled crossing-point.

Jamie2k9 · 09-10-2013, 13:49

Quote:

One thing that would help at a relatively low cost would be to get the second platform at Enfield back in action so that it could be used as an unscheduled crossing-point.

Was there not a threat on here a while ago saying plans were being made to reopen it?

Do all trains have to stop here or could you get by crossing trains there with one stopping and one not.

James Howard · 09-10-2013, 15:16

I thought I had heard that they were planning on sorting out Enfield but perhaps I am wrong.

They used to cross the 1700 from Sligo with the 17:15 to Longford at Enfield and it wasn't treated as a stop for the up-train.

But currently no trains are timetabled to cross at Enfield so it can't be used without reversing one of the trains. That leaves the choice between Maynooth and Killucan which incurs an extra 15 - 20 minute delay for one of the trains or reversing a train back into Enfield.

Mark Gleeson · 09-10-2013, 17:39

Folks lets keep things calm.

Wheelslip is a real and serious problem which has not been resolved and won't be as the laws of physics say transferring several hundred horsepower trough a contact area of about the size of a 1 cent coin is not going to work terribly well if you add anything which lubricates the patch, water, crushed leaves, oil etc.

As always Irish Rail are not exactly showing the way in addressing this issue

Inniskeen · 09-10-2013, 19:54

Yes the same physics which make the steel wheel on a steel rail so efficient is also an Achilles heel when it comes to leaf fall and other rail contaminants.

While the issue is not unique to Ireland, the problem here (and in the UK) has become more acute in recent years as modern braking sytems do not act directly on the wheels but are a combination of dynamic braking and axle mounted discs. Older brake sytems actually cleaned the wheels and removed contaminants, something which newer systems do not do.

While not a complete solution most modern braking and traction control systems worldwide incorporate automatic sanding systems. The reason locomotive hauled trains on Irish Rail were (and remain) particularly susceptible to leaf fall is that Irish Rail have been traditionally very reluctant to use locomotive sanding equipment. In some countries it is illegal and impractical to operate a train without a fully functional sanding system to support both traction and braking.

Jamie2k9 · 10-10-2013, 01:01

Wheelslip is not such a major issue however this time of year it gets a lot of attention. Every single delay is blamed on this for the next few weeks when probably out of 100% at most 30-40% will actually be this. Its an good excuse as passengers get very p*ssed off hearing its signalling etc and this time of year takes the heat of IE.

Wheelslip is very rarely an issue on Waterford route, there is largely no tall trees that drop leafs left on the route, IE always do major cutting of ditches during the summer. The only spot where it can be a problem sometimes in in Carlow station (Waterford end) where there is no trees next to the line as such but wind blows them onto the tracks and departing trains have some problems.

I expect its the same on most routes out of Heuston.

haddockman · 10-10-2013, 01:47

Where is the sandite train?

JohnnyBoy · 23-10-2013, 12:26

Pretty certain that leaf slip is not the issue in this case. The train is obviously braking at the same place each day. Maybe there are track issues. It does also pass a level crossing during its slow phase, so maybe it's something to do with that. Glad I'm not the only person it's bothering.

08-10-2013, 18:15	#1
lambo77 Regular Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 40	Slow Service Has anyone noticed the slower service recently in both directions on the sligo - connolly line. There seem to be a few new speed restrctiions between Killucan and Enfield. Anybody know what they are?/

09-10-2013, 04:26	#3
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	Leaf fall season and passing loops? __________________

09-10-2013, 15:16	#15
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I thought I had heard that they were planning on sorting out Enfield but perhaps I am wrong. They used to cross the 1700 from Sligo with the 17:15 to Longford at Enfield and it wasn't treated as a stop for the up-train. But currently no trains are timetabled to cross at Enfield so it can't be used without reversing one of the trains. That leaves the choice between Maynooth and Killucan which incurs an extra 15 - 20 minute delay for one of the trains or reversing a train back into Enfield. Last edited by James Howard : 09-10-2013 at 15:17. Reason: Missing line

09-10-2013, 17:39	#16
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Folks lets keep things calm. Wheelslip is a real and serious problem which has not been resolved and won't be as the laws of physics say transferring several hundred horsepower trough a contact area of about the size of a 1 cent coin is not going to work terribly well if you add anything which lubricates the patch, water, crushed leaves, oil etc. As always Irish Rail are not exactly showing the way in addressing this issue __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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09-10-2013, 06:49	#4
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	The 545 from Sligo was close to 10 minutes late Monday and Tuesday this week. Monday morning was delayed before Edgeworthstown and Tuesday was due to a Maynooth service running late. As Colm suggested, I suspect it is leaf fall and the dire lack of passing loops between Maynooth and Mullingar that make it impossible to recover delays.

09-10-2013, 09:23	#7
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Given how padded the Irish Rail timetables are already, I would rather they just do their best with the existing timetables rather than just have them waiting around even longer to catch up with the timetable when things actually go right. My morning train takes 102 minutes for 69 miles using an ICR as it is currently with 5 stops. How much longer should it take?

09-10-2013, 13:31	#13
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Leaf-slip is a problem in other countries (See wikipedia) but it is particularly bad in Ireland and Britain because of the amount of rain we get around the time leaves are falling. The delays are nowhere near as bad as they were a few years ago when Irish Rail were using locomotives on the Sligo line but when you have a single line railway where most trains have to cross with two others, knock-on delays are inevitable when you have poor traction. The only real way to deal with it would be to provide more crossing points to mitigate knock-on delays or to run trains to clean off the leaves with high-pressure water or steam. One thing that would help at a relatively low cost would be to get the second platform at Enfield back in action so that it could be used as an unscheduled crossing-point.

09-10-2013, 19:54	#17
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	Yes the same physics which make the steel wheel on a steel rail so efficient is also an Achilles heel when it comes to leaf fall and other rail contaminants. While the issue is not unique to Ireland, the problem here (and in the UK) has become more acute in recent years as modern braking sytems do not act directly on the wheels but are a combination of dynamic braking and axle mounted discs. Older brake sytems actually cleaned the wheels and removed contaminants, something which newer systems do not do. While not a complete solution most modern braking and traction control systems worldwide incorporate automatic sanding systems. The reason locomotive hauled trains on Irish Rail were (and remain) particularly susceptible to leaf fall is that Irish Rail have been traditionally very reluctant to use locomotive sanding equipment. In some countries it is illegal and impractical to operate a train without a fully functional sanding system to support both traction and braking.

10-10-2013, 01:01	#18
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	Wheelslip is not such a major issue however this time of year it gets a lot of attention. Every single delay is blamed on this for the next few weeks when probably out of 100% at most 30-40% will actually be this. Its an good excuse as passengers get very p*ssed off hearing its signalling etc and this time of year takes the heat of IE. Wheelslip is very rarely an issue on Waterford route, there is largely no tall trees that drop leafs left on the route, IE always do major cutting of ditches during the summer. The only spot where it can be a problem sometimes in in Carlow station (Waterford end) where there is no trees next to the line as such but wind blows them onto the tracks and departing trains have some problems. I expect its the same on most routes out of Heuston.

10-10-2013, 01:47	#19
haddockman Regular Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 113	Where is the sandite train?

23-10-2013, 12:26	#20
JohnnyBoy New to the board Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 27	Pretty certain that leaf slip is not the issue in this case. The train is obviously braking at the same place each day. Maybe there are track issues. It does also pass a level crossing during its slow phase, so maybe it's something to do with that. Glad I'm not the only person it's bothering.