Should Connolly be the terminating station for Rosslare services?

KSW · 19-12-2007, 16:08

Should Connolly station be the terminating station for Rosslare services?

Would passengers perfer the Rosslare trains to terminate at Connoly and start at Connolly, Rather coming from Maynooth/Drogheda?

Morgase · 19-12-2007, 16:14

Well I would love it. It would greatly increase the chances of getting a seat instead of standing the whole way home. Maybe the cleaners would even get a chance to clean the train and remove all the empty cans from the tables!

But then I don't use the service beyond Connolly, so I'm biased

Thomas J Stamp · 19-12-2007, 16:24

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showth...ghlight=arklow

we sort of had this discussion on the members section long ago.

I personally advocate them all stopping at Pearse.

Colm R · 19-12-2007, 16:33

I was waiting in Pearse recently and was thinking about this. <I was waiting a long time>

There has to be an argument to terminating "Intercity Train" in Pearse coming from Rosslare, rather than sending them onto Connolly and Maynooth.

Yes, it may require more trains, but surely having routes run independent of each other makes since. Pearse certainly has the room, that old platform beside the northbound platform, and a further area, currently used as a staff car park, which could be used to hold trains without interfering with the cross city Dart.

Consequently, services to the North and Northwest should leave by Connolly.

Is there any sense to what I am talking about, or is total BS.

Precedent in London is clear. Each of the major stations serves lines on their direction out of London. Is there a culture in Ireland ("Dublin") that people don't want to transfer and will pick their place of residence according to where they work so preventing the need to transfer?

shweeney · 19-12-2007, 16:49

i have no problem with them going on to maynooth or drogheda - makes sense not to block up a running platform in Connolly, though there is also plenty of holding space north of connolly where they could wait.

Stopping in Pearse isn't great, there's already 2 mainline stations in what is actually quite a small city - adding another does nothing for integrated transport and the transferring passengers would end up on the Dart anyway.

CSL · 19-12-2007, 18:05

Where do the trains come from then to run the outward services from Connolly that would have run with the train's you've just terminated in Pearse ?

Doing it the existing way needs 1 set.

Doing it the other way requires 2 sets

or am I mad as a loon ?

If we assume you have enough sets the only advantage is a reduction on paths required through tara and across the river

sean · 19-12-2007, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithStephen

Should Connolly station be the terminating station for Rosslare services?

No. IMO Sligo and Longford should.

Think about this - not only are there track-path advantages running through Dublin City Centre on merged Sligo and Rosslare lines, (that being less conflict with DARTs) but users on both lines would have more destination choices, with Sligo users having direct trains to Tara St. and Pearse, while Rosslare users could get direct interchange with the Metro at Drumcondra.

If some vision and lateral thinking had been applied to the Midland line, an interchange could have been built there and Maynooth-Bray DART, Longford-Arklow Commuter and Sligo-Rosslare Intercity could have all gone down the Midland line and into the suburban station at Connolly, this could have opened boodles of track paths to bring Kildare Commuter and Heuston-based Intercity trains into Connolly sheds, which would have had its own advantages. But alas, the Metro was built in such a way that an interchange with the Midland Line was impossible and the RPA didn't look at it because IE made their disinterest in that line very clear

But even without the Midland Line, matched, through running trains make a certain degree of sense.

Maynooth and Drogheda do not make sense as terminii for Rosslare service because they're Commuter destinations (the former soon to be DART) while Connolly and Sligo are Intercity terminii.

KSW · 19-12-2007, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean

Users on both lines would have more destination choices, with Sligo users having direct trains to Tara St. and Pearse, while Rosslare users could get direct interchange with the Metro at Drumcondra.

Maynooth-Bray DART, Longford-Gorey Commuter and Sligo-Rosslare Intercity could have all gone down the Midland line and into the suburban station at Connolly, this could have opened boodles of track paths to bring Kildare Commuter and Heuston-based Intercity trains into Connolly sheds,

Maynooth and Drogheda do not make sense as terminii for Rosslare service.

I Like where your coming from

Edward Ryan · 19-12-2007, 21:02

Interesting topic. I agree that all Rosslare services should stop and start from one of the city centre stations. These trains could be taken in for cleaning and servicing then returned to the platform 10min before departure.

However I do see the value of operating the Gorey/Enniscorthy services to and from Maynooth as I know there are a number of students commuting to and from collage in Maynooth and the service is really usefull for them.

The 1740 Rosslare to Drogheda and 0630 Drogheda to Rosslare operate more or less to get the trains to servicing at Drogheda depot. It makes more sense than stopping the train in Dublin then run it empty to the depot.

Ed

KSW · 19-12-2007, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Ryan

Interesting topic. I agree that all Rosslare services should stop and start from one of the city centre stations. These trains could be taken in for cleaning and servicing then returned to the platform 10min before departure.

However I do see the value of operating the Gorey/Enniscorthy services to and from Maynooth as I know there are a number of students commuting to and from collage in Maynooth and the service is really usefull for them.

The 1740 Rosslare to Drogheda and 0630 Drogheda to Rosslare operate more or less to get the trains to servicing at Drogheda depot. It makes more sense than stopping the train in Dublin then run it empty to the depot.

Ed

10mins would be good for me but I would perfer 20mins but 10 I'II settle for

.
Gorey/Enniscorthy Commuter services yes they are fine as they are its InterCity, I think should terminate at Connolly.
The 17:40 Rosslare/Drogheda they are Commuter Railcars so they are fine going to Drogheda for service. Hence why does the 20:05 Enniscorthy/Dublin just go to Conolly at not also to Drogheda Depot. But when the new 22000 trains come into action then they should go no futher than Connolly unless of course its the last service from Rosslare then it may go to where-ever they go for servicing.

KSW · 19-12-2007, 23:34

Quote:

Well I would love it.
It would greatly increase the chances of getting a seat instead of standing the whole way home.

I think Rosslare-Dublin Connolly should'nt change, Connolly is central and has the Dart, Enterprise, No 90 bus to Hueston, InterCity to Sligo its more a terminus for Rosslare than Pearse Station.

Can I ask everyone do you like the current stops at Tara Street ,Pearse & Dun Laoghaire from Connolly and all Rosslare services including Sundays?

Pierce · 20-12-2007, 01:53

Interesting question there KeithStephen,I would love to see all Rosslare trains terminate at Connolly and not Dublin Pearse. 20minutes for the train to be standing at the platform is'nt exactly asking for much. Could the train wait at Connolly for 20m's. I have to say I dont like the train stopping at the stations you've mentioned because I like seeing the train passing Tara and Pearse and all stations to Bray knowing your on an Intercity express train.

comcor · 20-12-2007, 12:58

I can't see the benefit of terminating Rosslare services in Pearse. For the passengers who want to travel onto Dundalk, Sligo or Belfast, you're adding extra complication and it wouldn't make all that much difference to DART running.

I'd agree with the idea of running them through Dublin completely, preferably on to Sligo or Dundalk.

ThomasJ · 20-12-2007, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierce

20minutes for the train to be standing at the platform is'nt exactly asking for much. Could the train wait at Connolly for 20m's..

20 minutes of DARTS and Commuters using just 2 platforms is alot. It causes quite a bit of disruption.

Bearing in mind you are cancelling a busy service by curtailing the service to Connolly do you allocate the commuter rolling stock that has been taken off the rosslare line and allocate it to a maynooth service thereby wasting the stock that has become surplus?

KSW · 20-12-2007, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by comcor

I can't see the benefit of terminating Rosslare services in Pearse.

I can't for the love of God either, It makes no sense.
Connolly has and hopefully will always be the terminating station for Rosslare Services.

Anyone else even considered why IE are stopping all Rosslare services at Tara, Pearse & Dun Laoghaire maybe they are planning this in advance.....

Colm Moore · 20-12-2007, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithStephen

Anyone else even considered why IE are stopping all Rosslare services at Tara, Pearse & Dun Laoghaire

They stop at those stations because they are popular stations with connections, e.g. 7, 46A and ferries at Dun Laoghaire. There is also likely to be a DART in front of them.

KSW · 20-12-2007, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

They stop at those stations because they are popular stations with connections, e.g. 7, 46A and ferries at Dun Laoghaire. There is also likely to be a DART in front of them.

I know all this, I just wanted to see if people would also disagree with those stops but I guess its not turning out that way (haha

)

I dont think there will ever be a Bray/Connolly direct for Rosslare ever again

James Shields · 22-12-2007, 01:18

Would you like them to extend the tracks up your front garden to save you the walk from the station?

Seriously, the purpose of the railway is to carry as many people as possible, and cutting out intermediate stops denies a proportion of the users from accessing the service. Unless there are enough Roslare passengers to fill the train on their own, you need the passengers for intermediate stops to keep the service viable.

Combining a Roslare service with a Maynooth/Longford/Sligo service saves a critical trackpath over the loop bridge, as one service is emptying as the other is filling up. I haven't experience of this, but I would expect that most passengers from the Maynooth leg will have alighted by Pearse, so even if you don't get a seat at Connolly, if you stand somewhere sensible you should be seated by Pearse.

And if you are left standing from time to time, try to remember the positive side - it means your line is growing and you can expect a greater range of services in the future.

ThomasJ · 22-12-2007, 01:50

Good point James re. combining rosslare and maynooth services!

passenger numbers on those rosslare europort and gorey trains have more than doubled as a result of running to and from maynooth. and dundalk. surely that can only be a good thing for the worst performing line on the railway network?

I remember years ago when there was a 7.30 clonsilla to rosslare europort train (was an mk2 set) that was always crammed as far as connolly and i actually remember cold winter mornings that less than ten passengers would get on at connolly.... how times have changed !

KSW · 22-12-2007, 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

passenger numbers on those rosslare europort and gorey trains have more than doubled as a result of running to and from maynooth. and dundalk.

Can you proof this? When I see the Maynooth train coming into P5 most of the passengers have got off then the Rosslare passengers crowd the train most people still start there journey at Connolly. Arriving into Pearse not so much Tara St there is more passengers for the line. Passengers travelling on the Rosslare line know that Connolly is best to get a seat than arriving into Pearse with the coach full. I agree Thank God the line has seen an increase etc....

19-12-2007, 16:08	#1
KSW Really Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Rosslare Line Posts: 600	Should Connolly be the terminating station for Rosslare services? Should Connolly station be the terminating station for Rosslare services? Would passengers perfer the Rosslare trains to terminate at Connoly and start at Connolly, Rather coming from Maynooth/Drogheda?

19-12-2007, 16:24	#3
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showth...ghlight=arklow we sort of had this discussion on the members section long ago. I personally advocate them all stopping at Pearse. __________________ We are the passengers

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19-12-2007, 16:14	#2
Morgase New to the board Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 26	Well I would love it. It would greatly increase the chances of getting a seat instead of standing the whole way home. Maybe the cleaners would even get a chance to clean the train and remove all the empty cans from the tables! But then I don't use the service beyond Connolly, so I'm biased

19-12-2007, 16:33	#4
Colm R Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 106	I was waiting in Pearse recently and was thinking about this. <I was waiting a long time> There has to be an argument to terminating "Intercity Train" in Pearse coming from Rosslare, rather than sending them onto Connolly and Maynooth. Yes, it may require more trains, but surely having routes run independent of each other makes since. Pearse certainly has the room, that old platform beside the northbound platform, and a further area, currently used as a staff car park, which could be used to hold trains without interfering with the cross city Dart. Consequently, services to the North and Northwest should leave by Connolly. Is there any sense to what I am talking about, or is total BS. Precedent in London is clear. Each of the major stations serves lines on their direction out of London. Is there a culture in Ireland ("Dublin") that people don't want to transfer and will pick their place of residence according to where they work so preventing the need to transfer?

19-12-2007, 16:49	#5
shweeney Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 180	i have no problem with them going on to maynooth or drogheda - makes sense not to block up a running platform in Connolly, though there is also plenty of holding space north of connolly where they could wait. Stopping in Pearse isn't great, there's already 2 mainline stations in what is actually quite a small city - adding another does nothing for integrated transport and the transferring passengers would end up on the Dart anyway.

19-12-2007, 18:05	#6
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	Where do the trains come from then to run the outward services from Connolly that would have run with the train's you've just terminated in Pearse ? Doing it the existing way needs 1 set. Doing it the other way requires 2 sets or am I mad as a loon ? If we assume you have enough sets the only advantage is a reduction on paths required through tara and across the river

19-12-2007, 21:02	#9
Edward Ryan Regular Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gorey Posts: 74	Interesting topic. I agree that all Rosslare services should stop and start from one of the city centre stations. These trains could be taken in for cleaning and servicing then returned to the platform 10min before departure. However I do see the value of operating the Gorey/Enniscorthy services to and from Maynooth as I know there are a number of students commuting to and from collage in Maynooth and the service is really usefull for them. The 1740 Rosslare to Drogheda and 0630 Drogheda to Rosslare operate more or less to get the trains to servicing at Drogheda depot. It makes more sense than stopping the train in Dublin then run it empty to the depot. Ed

20-12-2007, 01:53	#12
Pierce New to the board Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 26	Interesting question there KeithStephen,I would love to see all Rosslare trains terminate at Connolly and not Dublin Pearse. 20minutes for the train to be standing at the platform is'nt exactly asking for much. Could the train wait at Connolly for 20m's. I have to say I dont like the train stopping at the stations you've mentioned because I like seeing the train passing Tara and Pearse and all stations to Bray knowing your on an Intercity express train.

20-12-2007, 12:58	#13
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	I can't see the benefit of terminating Rosslare services in Pearse. For the passengers who want to travel onto Dundalk, Sligo or Belfast, you're adding extra complication and it wouldn't make all that much difference to DART running. I'd agree with the idea of running them through Dublin completely, preferably on to Sligo or Dundalk.

22-12-2007, 01:18	#18
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	Would you like them to extend the tracks up your front garden to save you the walk from the station? Seriously, the purpose of the railway is to carry as many people as possible, and cutting out intermediate stops denies a proportion of the users from accessing the service. Unless there are enough Roslare passengers to fill the train on their own, you need the passengers for intermediate stops to keep the service viable. Combining a Roslare service with a Maynooth/Longford/Sligo service saves a critical trackpath over the loop bridge, as one service is emptying as the other is filling up. I haven't experience of this, but I would expect that most passengers from the Maynooth leg will have alighted by Pearse, so even if you don't get a seat at Connolly, if you stand somewhere sensible you should be seated by Pearse. And if you are left standing from time to time, try to remember the positive side - it means your line is growing and you can expect a greater range of services in the future.

22-12-2007, 01:50	#19
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Good point James re. combining rosslare and maynooth services! passenger numbers on those rosslare europort and gorey trains have more than doubled as a result of running to and from maynooth. and dundalk. surely that can only be a good thing for the worst performing line on the railway network? I remember years ago when there was a 7.30 clonsilla to rosslare europort train (was an mk2 set) that was always crammed as far as connolly and i actually remember cold winter mornings that less than ten passengers would get on at connolly.... how times have changed !