Tipperary on track for Irish Rail fares offer

[Destructix]

From Tipperary Star

RISH Rail is to target householders along the Ballybrophy line with special offers to entice more people to use the local train service. The offer was revealed at this Monday’s Nenagh Town Council meeting by Cllr Virginia O’Dowd, a member of the Nenagh Rail Partnership that has been pushing for more promotion on the line for almost a decade

“The marketing executive, Paul O’Kelly, and a member of his staff, Cathal Lyons, have been travelling to Nenagh and Cloughjordan to discuss how to promote the line, and the fact that they were willing to come here instead of us having to go to Dublin shows they are serious in trying to attract new business on the service,” she told councillors.

Up to 6,000 homes along the line can expect to receive a letter in the post over the coming week giving a 50 per cent reduction on family fares to Dublin.

This means a fare of E33 for two adults and up to four children. The letter will also highlight the offer of E6 return fares to Limerick, with a E3 fare for children.

“This is about getting bums on seats and I appeal to people not to just bin the letters,” said Cllr O’Dowd, who hoped householders wouldn’t confuse the offers with their Property Tax demands.

She acknowledged that commuter traffic alone was not going to keep the line open, and, pointing to the success of the trains to Croke Park in the past two years, appealed to groups and organisations to either talk to Nenagh Rail Partnership or Irish Rail about special offers.

“For instance, it might have been possible to organise a special train to the Ireland- Austria match if around 200 people were interested in travelling. But the regular service can also be used for special occasions,” she said.

Mayor Lalor McGee pointed out that Nenagh railway station was celebrating its 150th anniversary this October and Cllr O’Dowd urged the council help NRP with its plan to restore one of the old water pumps at the station in time for the celebrations. Irish Rail’s heritage officer had urged them to seek Lottery funding for the project.

Cllr Seamus Morris described the offer as a “super deal. Iarnrod Eireann has bought into it and it should be supported.” Cllr Conor Delaney warned people to “use it or lose it,” saying: “You won’t know what you have until it is gone.”

[Jamie2k9]

Its a excellent marketing by IE as they know people won't use it and cutting fares by 50% will mean losses grow and it can be closed. The sooner the better. People have had loads of opportunities to use the service and just don't bother.

One wonders would Rosslare-Waterford still be here if we got these type of promotions.

[Destructix]

Exactly. A few weeks ago in the Nenagh Guardian the NRP claimed that they never asked for the 5:05 Limerick/Nenagh-Dublin service. It was Iarnród Éireanns idea to introduce this service and by doing so they axed the morning commuter service which was the busiest service on the line. Now that the Dublin service is gone and they have reverted to the 2011 timetable those few loyal customers they had in 2011 have now found faster alternatives and they will never get these passengers back.

[ACustomer]

Destructix: it wasn't so much Irish Rail's idea to change the timetable: it was Alan Kelly's and as usual a semi-state had to jump to the wishes of politicians, not matter how daft.

[dowlingm]

the problem the NRP has is that they made nicey nicey with IE's PR when the wind was blowing their way. Hard then to do a 180 when they get screwed. Of course they didn't want an 0505 but when you're not a significant financial contributor to a project you don't get to have much say in it.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Destructix

Exactly. A few weeks ago in the Nenagh Guardian the NRP claimed that they never asked for the 5:05 Limerick/Nenagh-Dublin service. It was Iarnród Éireanns idea to introduce this service and by doing so they axed the morning commuter service which was the busiest service on the line. Now that the Dublin service is gone and they have reverted to the 2011 timetable those few loyal customers they had in 2011 have now found faster alternatives and they will never get these passengers back.

What morning commuter service was axed ?

If you are talking about the evening commuter service, I think you are not accurately reflecting the actual situation since as persistently reported on this website, that service often turned back at Birdhill if there was no business offering beyond that point.

An 0505 service was never going to be a success as it simply didn't align with the market and was so slow, including being miserably slow between Ballybrophy and Heuston.

[Thomas J Stamp]

morning service from nenagh to limerick wasnt axed as far as i remember.

it was the balls up of the evening limerick-nenagh-ballybrophy which killed things in that regard.

the events of the time are accuratly detailed as they happened on this messageboard.

The idea of a train to the aviva the other night is pie in the sky stuff. I contacted IE when they had special trains for the Germany match to Cork and Limierick and they werent stopping in Tipp full stop - not even on the mainline.

Compairing Tipp in an All Ireland Final to a Soccer match is not realistic. Even last year in the All-Ireland Semi there was no thought given, nor needed of a special on the branch. I assume there was one on the mainline. Given the history of Tipp supporters travel movements to CP it was justified.

[Traincustomer]

If the 16.55 Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy was deferred to, for instance, 17.50 arriving into Ballybrophy at 19.46:

* no apparent pathing issue with a 17.50 departure ex Colbert.
* 17.20 Cork to Dublin would not necessarily need to serve Ballybrophy.
* 18.20 Cork to Dublin could instead call at Ballybrophy (circa 20.00).
* Connection to branch would be available from 19.00 Heuston - Cork (arr. Ballybrophy 19.59).
* Branch train could depart at 20.03 (with allowance to wait if needs be).

Don't know whether this would affect gatekeepers' shifts or if there are other issues/ constraints.

Plus-side is a timing from Limerick likely to suit the vast majority - slight downside passengers coming from Dublin finished business at 5/5.30 may have a slightly longer wait in Dublin than is ideal.

[dowlingm]

For me the possible winner was to have based the service in Roscrea with a based train and crew, from which there is no scheduled bus competition, rather than Nenagh from which JJK and BE compete with IE at approximately the same time. However, like Limerick Junction-Waterford, the overriding consideration of serving Dublin skews the timetable away from local service advantage since the Nenagh departure is determined by when the northbound service to Dublin reaches there.

BE Birdhill 0725 Augustinian Church 0810 (Castleconnell, Annacotty)
JJK Nenagh 0730 Albert Quay 0830 (Birdhill, UL)
IE Nenagh 0745 Colbert 0845 (Birdhill, Castleconnell)
BE Nenagh 0745 Henry St 0835 (Birdhill)

That area's transport service is locked into a timetable which is aimed at each companies own priorities rather than one which creates the best mix of fast and connecting service.

[Destructix]

Tipperary Star

Tipp Rail Group To Launch Website

WHEN it comes to attracting visitors from Dublin, the towns along the North Tipperary railway line have a rare competitive edge: the train service linking them with the capital, according to Nenagh Rail Partnership, which promotes the line in conjunction with Irish Rail.

However, very few local businesses do currently exploit it. The business community could get great benefit from the extra trade these visitors would bring, simply by joining forces to offer packages to attract them.

Nenagh Rail Partnership is developing a website to promote visits to Roscrea, Cloughjordan, Nenagh, Birdill and Castleconnell. It will have a page for each community served, with links to other local websites.

Each community page will suggest itineraries for a visit and will promote businesses within walking distance of the station.

The bait on the hook will be attractive discounts for visitors in possession of a current train ticket. Potential visitors could save the whole cost of their journey by choosing to travel by train, simply by giving their custom to local businesses.

As a result, the communities served could become uniquely attractive destinations.

The potential for repeat business should not be overlooked: Dubliners who have enjoyed their time here could become regular visitors.

The target markets would include walkers and others looking for an active day out, city-dwellers who do not own cars and overseas tourists who might be wary of driving “on the wrong side of the road” in an unfamiliar hire car. Visitors would arrive from Dublin mid-morning and would leave in the evening, which would give them around seven hours of spending opportunities. The potential for extra custom is substantial – and at little cost to business owners.

The website will be launched as soon as we have enough businesses signed up in just one of the towns or villages along the line.

Other communities will be added shortly after, once we have the critical mass of offers needed to make a viable visitor package.

Community bodies and business owners keen to take advantage of this initiative should email Duncan Martin, PRO of Nenagh Rail Partnership,

It isn't a bad idea but I think the businesses that do sign up to it would have to offer very big discounts to attract people to come to Nenagh and Roscrea. Iarnród Éireann did something similar to this a few years ago and it was nationwide in most towns and cities and it wasn't very successful.

[Jamie2k9]

WHEN it comes to attracting visitors from Dublin, the towns along the North Tipperary railway line have a rare competitive edge: the train service linking them with the capital, according to Nenagh Rail Partnership,

What a ridiculous statement, NRP need a reality check last time I checked Killarney and Galway to name a few have a connection to the capital, what is so special about this line links to Dublin. I can just see trains bursting with visitors from Dublin. Just how long more will I read stories that go from fanticity to even more unbelievable. I can wait to see there next plans for the line.

[Eddie]

Isn't it about how you interpret the statement?

I think the statement itself is perfectly reasonable. The North Tipperary towns on the line have a competitive advantage over the North Tipperary towns that are not on the line.

However, clearly a 2 train a day service does not have a competitive edge over any line that has 4, 5, 6 or more services a day.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its not a direct service

Name me one major Tipperary town which does not have a train station, only one I can think of is Cashel

[finnyus]

...add to that:

Who even knows that a connection is possible at Ballybrophy for a railway line to Limerick via Nenagh? I've been on both an ICR and MK4 set, both heading to Dublin and heading to Cork that stopped at Ballybrophy. Both services were the trains that connect with Limerick (via Nenagh) bound services.

The automated announcement on mainline trains just informed passengers the next station was Ballybrophy. Not one mention of "change here for Roscrea, Cloughjordan, ....". The same could be said for Limerick Junction: I've never heard any announcement for "change here for Tipperary, Cahir, Clonmel...". Likewise, apparently no station exists north of Ennis on the automated announcements.

I would imagine to the majority of mainline users, Ballybrophy is just another standard stop on the Cork mainline.

[Jamie2k9]

The same could be said for Limerick Junction: I've never heard any announcement for "change here for Tipperary, Cahir, Clonmel...". Likewise, apparently no station exists north of Ennis on the automated announcements.

In Heuston they announce the connection and one of the hosts on the Cork line announces it to when they are on that service.

I think the statement itself is perfectly reasonable. The North Tipperary towns on the line have a competitive advantage over the North Tipperary towns that are not on the line.

However, clearly a 2 train a day service does not have a competitive edge over any line that has 4, 5, 6 or more services a day.

Can you post a list of reasons why visitors would want to visit these towns other than driving through. They are not exactly know for tourism.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

In Heuston they announce the connection and one of the hosts on the Cork line announces it to when they are on that service.



Can you post a list of reasons why visitors would want to visit these towns other than driving through. They are not exactly know for tourism.

Roscrea and Nenagh are heritage towns, Roscrea has the castle and grounds right in the centre of the town, and we have several abbeys and other sites of historical significance dotted about. It really is an under promoted place, but i have seen many coach tours from the uk and europe truck into town during the summer.

I cant fault the NRP for doing this website, I hope it is a success, and anything that keeps the branch open is also a good thing.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Roscrea and Nenagh are heritage towns, Roscrea has the castle and grounds right in the centre of the town, and we have several abbeys and other sites of historical significance dotted about. It really is an under promoted place, but i have seen many coach tours from the uk and europe truck into town during the summer.

I cant fault the NRP for doing this website, I hope it is a success, and anything that keeps the branch open is also a good thing.

I hope it works but I can't see many if any passengers being generated. Its the locals that need to use it if they want it open.

[James Howard]

There simply isn't enough service on the Nenagh Line to make it viable. Not ever having experienced the charms of Roscrea castle, I may not be qualified to make sweeping judgements on it, but it might be difficult to pass the 8 hours and 3 minutes between the morning train and its return service.

Similarly, there is no realistic commuter service in either direction on the line nor is there a train that gets you to Dublin in time for a morning hospital appointment which are usually block booked at 9:30. So that rules out most of the other opportunities for generating traffic, leaving the line with the weekend student traffic and the odd shopping trip that of necessity lasts all day.

When Irish Rail upped the service frequency to 2 hourly on the Sligo line (and effectively hourly to Longford between 15:00 and 19:00), I thought they were mad as the services before then were hardly jammed. But it made a massive difference. They have a structured fare system where the day returns get progressive cheaper after the commuter trains in the morning and you can just turn up in Connolly to go home after you are done shopping. The result is that most of the afternoon trains are very busy and while the line may not be paying for itself in raw financial terms, it is generating valuable economic and social activity for the country. This kind of jump in frequency is the only way that the Nenagh Line is ever going to be a success and you can't blame the local population for not responding to a half-assed commuter service that seemed designed to prove that extra services don't work.

The common feature between both lines is that the only meaningful traffic originating in Dublin is the weekend student visits home. They have tried and failed with early-morning down services and matching evening returns from Sligo.

[Jamie2k9]

The majority of people who have hospital appointments in Dublin don't pay a penny to travel there so rule that reason out.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by James Howard

There simply isn't enough service on the Nenagh Line to make it viable. Not ever having experienced the charms of Roscrea castle, I may not be qualified to make sweeping judgements on it, but it might be difficult to pass the 8 hours and 3 minutes between the morning train and its return service.

Similarly, there is no realistic commuter service in either direction on the line nor is there a train that gets you to Dublin in time for a morning hospital appointment which are usually block booked at 9:30. So that rules out most of the other opportunities for generating traffic, leaving the line with the weekend student traffic and the odd shopping trip that of necessity lasts all day.

When Irish Rail upped the service frequency to 2 hourly on the Sligo line (and effectively hourly to Longford between 15:00 and 19:00), I thought they were mad as the services before then were hardly jammed. But it made a massive difference. They have a structured fare system where the day returns get progressive cheaper after the commuter trains in the morning and you can just turn up in Connolly to go home after you are done shopping. The result is that most of the afternoon trains are very busy and while the line may not be paying for itself in raw financial terms, it is generating valuable economic and social activity for the country. This kind of jump in frequency is the only way that the Nenagh Line is ever going to be a success and you can't blame the local population for not responding to a half-assed commuter service that seemed designed to prove that extra services don't work.

The common feature between both lines is that the only meaningful traffic originating in Dublin is the weekend student visits home. They have tried and failed with early-morning down services and matching evening returns from Sligo.

we have long argued that what the branch needs is a regular little two carriage service running up and down all day. We even, long ago, produced a draft timetable, the important starting point being towards Limerick. This would suit this tourist idea down to the ground so you could get off at BB, hop to Roscrea then Nenagh and finally Limerick where you could stay.

However, and this is the important bit - IE are very happy to use the likes of the NRG and ourselves to provide input/publicity/awareness but nothing whatsoever will get them to change the timetable as it suits managment and unions down to a tee. The passenger, as usual, is not actually relevent.