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Graham · 20-07-2006, 22:04

At the risk of playing devil's advocate here, there is a certain reason for people not giving up seats: most commuters I imagine are simply very tired, especially in the evenings. If they've been vying for a seat all week, and they finally get one after a long day, and maybe only two days in the week, the last thing they want to do is give it up – especially in the context of standing for up to an hour as the potential alternative.

I appreciate that is no excuse for allowing somebody to stand who clearly needs a seat more than you do, but it is fair to say that the public in general isn't quite the shower of ignorant b*stards as is often painted - uncharitable perhaps, but not wholly inconsiderate. There is an unstated rule of 'we're all in this together', so whether you're 25 or 55 you take what you're given; everyone is tired, every one is peed off, so just be quiet and get on with it - some of us will stand today, others tomorrow etc.

There is also a certain element of waiting for someone else to give up a seat before you have to, though certainly this does not explain how some worthy people are left standing after more than a minute or two – completely unacceptable.

Where the problem arises is when this 'commuter culture' of taking what you're given doesn't take into account 'outsiders' - the elderly, pregnant women, people with a physical impairment etc etc - often persons that don't use commuter services normally. Commuters also switch into a self-absorption mode, sitting down and taking out a book to read, or going asleep, or spreading the broadsheet that restricts one's view of other passengers - all blocking out the outside world, which is understandable but it makes them oblivious to others’ needs.

So it is often up to other commuters to inform each other of a person that shouldn’t be standing, and similarly sitting people also ought to pay more attention, as much as they may not want to.

Whereas it’s simply not acceptable to let patently unsuited people stand on services, the situation isn’t always as clear cut as ‘young people nowadays, I don’t know…’. On modern day services everyone just accepts the situation, takes their lot when they can, and put up with it when they don't.
It’s when they become oblivious to clearly needy people, that things fall apart.

As a general rule of thumb, if someone looks like they need a seat more than you, offer it.

20-07-2006, 22:04	#8
Graham New to the board Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: crawling behind a DART Posts: 25	At the risk of playing devil's advocate here, there is a certain reason for people not giving up seats: most commuters I imagine are simply very tired, especially in the evenings. If they've been vying for a seat all week, and they finally get one after a long day, and maybe only two days in the week, the last thing they want to do is give it up – especially in the context of standing for up to an hour as the potential alternative. I appreciate that is no excuse for allowing somebody to stand who clearly needs a seat more than you do, but it is fair to say that the public in general isn't quite the shower of ignorant b*stards as is often painted - uncharitable perhaps, but not wholly inconsiderate. There is an unstated rule of 'we're all in this together', so whether you're 25 or 55 you take what you're given; everyone is tired, every one is peed off, so just be quiet and get on with it - some of us will stand today, others tomorrow etc. There is also a certain element of waiting for someone else to give up a seat before you have to, though certainly this does not explain how some worthy people are left standing after more than a minute or two – completely unacceptable. Where the problem arises is when this 'commuter culture' of taking what you're given doesn't take into account 'outsiders' - the elderly, pregnant women, people with a physical impairment etc etc - often persons that don't use commuter services normally. Commuters also switch into a self-absorption mode, sitting down and taking out a book to read, or going asleep, or spreading the broadsheet that restricts one's view of other passengers - all blocking out the outside world, which is understandable but it makes them oblivious to others’ needs. So it is often up to other commuters to inform each other of a person that shouldn’t be standing, and similarly sitting people also ought to pay more attention, as much as they may not want to. Whereas it’s simply not acceptable to let patently unsuited people stand on services, the situation isn’t always as clear cut as ‘young people nowadays, I don’t know…’. On modern day services everyone just accepts the situation, takes their lot when they can, and put up with it when they don't. It’s when they become oblivious to clearly needy people, that things fall apart. As a general rule of thumb, if someone looks like they need a seat more than you, offer it.