[Thomas J Stamp]

he mentioned luas a lot last night on how it has no subsidity - apart from the billions it cost to build it.

the reality is that the subvention to CIE is one of the lowest in Europe, and it is a part of the programme for government to reduce it.

now, some months ago I went into the whole issue of the subsidy on the boards.ie infrastructure forum. To avoid repetition I wont report it, but the basic question is framed in the context of the fiscal treaty we passed this year. This commits the state to a balanced or almost balanced budget, and I caluclated the maximum we can borrow/deficit on the budget of about 1 to 2 billion a year.

The question, will each department have to balance its budget, and will each agency within or semi state do likewise.

Interestingly, I forsaw a situation for local authorities having to run themselves out of their local household/rates tax. This appears to be the intention as County Councils will be free to set the Household Charge in their area.

So, will this mean that CIE must come in on Budget without a sibsidy sometime in the near future? Perhaps. I cannot see the intercity operation surviving in that senario. A very basic skeletal service at most. I cannot see the attraction of it to a private operator, unless it is tendered as one lump, and even then, I cant see it being anything like the system we have today.

If you want the service we have, we need a subsidy. What amount is the question. The Minister believes, and it would seem correctly, that there is terrible wastage going on. That €36 million would ahve been wasted, down a black hole. It hasnt been. The next question is how much of a black hole is there?