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Derek Wheeler · 18-12-2006, 01:10

In a city such as paris, that has more than one ring road, an extensive underground metro system, excellent approach roads and a suburban and intercity rail system, any comparison with Dublin being a trendsetter is utterly laughable.

Light rail is a very useful and reletively cheap solution. It is easier to implement in Paris, because it is not a car dependent city. The road space is available to build on. These new trams are being built to integrate with the existing and very efficient system.

In Dublin the luas integrates with virtually nothing and hasn't even put a small dent in addressing congestion. Our existing rail system is a badly planned joke. Government priority rates it as low to middling. (while it actually has the potential to put a big dent in congestion.) Metro North and Metro west are by my reckoning already outdated concepts before a sod has been turned. I remain unconvinced that this new "light metro" concept can help Dublin. Furthermore I don't believe that any of the proposed Luas lines will ease things either.

You see, its about proper planning. We need to examine car commuting patterns and congested routes. Ascertain the reasons for using the car on these routes. Study the existing and future locations of high employment Industrial/business parks and their requirements for public transport. When we have done that we can start solving the problems.

T21 , in railway/bus terms, is a joke. Its a grouping of "pet" high profile infrastructural projects that are ill thought out and stand at the precipice of billions in expenditure on projects that won't make one bit of difference to Ireland's eternal slide into car dependency.

Love T21 all you like, but in terms of helping Dublin, its based on Government and state agency whims and not on the actual problem of problem solving. Ive studied it for a year, discussed it for a year, done the IE Vs RPA Vs DB thing and I arrive at the same conclusion. Its not a plan. There is no plan. Only individual projects based on the DTOs platform for change, which was based on plans/ideas formulated in the 1970s. We already have a ringroad (M50) that resulted from the same 1970s thinking. We are currently spending millions on upgrading it and planning another ringroad to be an actual ringroad.

The mistakes on roads are about to be repeated on public transport projects just when we need them the most. I'll bet my house on it.

18-12-2006, 01:10	#2
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	In a city such as paris, that has more than one ring road, an extensive underground metro system, excellent approach roads and a suburban and intercity rail system, any comparison with Dublin being a trendsetter is utterly laughable. Light rail is a very useful and reletively cheap solution. It is easier to implement in Paris, because it is not a car dependent city. The road space is available to build on. These new trams are being built to integrate with the existing and very efficient system. In Dublin the luas integrates with virtually nothing and hasn't even put a small dent in addressing congestion. Our existing rail system is a badly planned joke. Government priority rates it as low to middling. (while it actually has the potential to put a big dent in congestion.) Metro North and Metro west are by my reckoning already outdated concepts before a sod has been turned. I remain unconvinced that this new "light metro" concept can help Dublin. Furthermore I don't believe that any of the proposed Luas lines will ease things either. You see, its about proper planning. We need to examine car commuting patterns and congested routes. Ascertain the reasons for using the car on these routes. Study the existing and future locations of high employment Industrial/business parks and their requirements for public transport. When we have done that we can start solving the problems. T21 , in railway/bus terms, is a joke. Its a grouping of "pet" high profile infrastructural projects that are ill thought out and stand at the precipice of billions in expenditure on projects that won't make one bit of difference to Ireland's eternal slide into car dependency. Love T21 all you like, but in terms of helping Dublin, its based on Government and state agency whims and not on the actual problem of problem solving. Ive studied it for a year, discussed it for a year, done the IE Vs RPA Vs DB thing and I arrive at the same conclusion. Its not a plan. There is no plan. Only individual projects based on the DTOs platform for change, which was based on plans/ideas formulated in the 1970s. We already have a ringroad (M50) that resulted from the same 1970s thinking. We are currently spending millions on upgrading it and planning another ringroad to be an actual ringroad. The mistakes on roads are about to be repeated on public transport projects just when we need them the most. I'll bet my house on it.