Rail Users Ireland Forum - [article] Land row puts key rail station in jeopardy

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Mark Gleeson

05-07-2008 13:20

[article] Land row puts key rail station in jeopardy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Examiner

Land row puts key rail station in jeopardy

By Sean O’Riordan
A ROW over who owns a plot of land has put the future of a new multi-million euro railway station in jeopardy.

Iarnród Éireann’s plans to build a new station and 360-space park and ride facility on the outskirts of Cork have run into trouble, after the National Roads Authority (NRA) claimed it owned the land and needed it for one of its own projects.

The station at Dunkettle is one of three to be created along the Cork-Midleton railway line, which is due to be reopened early next year.

Cork County Council has approved planning permission for the station.

But the NRA has objected to An Bord Pleanála and is adamant that it has to use the land for a key upgrade of the Dunkettle interchange, which is the busiest junction in Cork.

The NRA supports improvements in public transport, but we are disappointed that we weren’t formally consulted on the plans by Iarnród Éireann, said the NRA spokesman.

He said the land was earmarked for large NRA improvements at the Dunkettle interchange, which will have to be undertaken in the future to prevent it from becoming gridlocked.

In addition, the NRA claimed there were several other more suitable locations Iarnród Éireann could use for the facility.

However, the war of words intensified last night after the rail company claimed that the NRA didn’t actually own the disputed land.

The fact of the matter is it is not their land. It is registered to Cork County Council for transport needs and the park and ride facility comes within this ambit, said an Iarnród Éireann spokesman. He claimed the rail company did consult the NRA before applying for planning permission.

However, the spokesman admitted that the appeal to An Bord Pleanála had the potential to impact on the railway company’s plans at Dunkettle. We will try and work constructively with Cork County Council and the NRA to see if we can resolve this issue, he said.

http://examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pag...619-qqqx=1.asp

Mark Hennessy

05-07-2008 13:24

:rolleyes:

Nothing, absolutely nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to transport "planning" in this country.

The Dunkettle train station has been part of the CASP to my knowledge.

The Midleton line has been "in delivery" since 2003.
So why couldn't the NRA have paid attention?

Colm Moore

05-07-2008 21:50

I think the old Dunkettle station was at the 'old' roundabout (which is still there). There isn't enough space there for a park and ride, there might be space on the far side of the railway, but the roads required just add to the complication of the Dunkettle Interchange.

The might be space to the east of the interchange near the freight yard (is that closed?).

Prof_Vanderjuice

06-07-2008 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor (Post 34291)

I think the old Dunkettle station was at the 'old' roundabout (which is still there).

I'm pretty sure it was across the Glashaboy River bridge from the roundabout. The building survived into the late 1980s. The station shows up on my 1985 street map of Cork, despite having been closed for about two decades at that point, and it's indicated as being immediately east of the river bridge (and apparently west of the road bridge that now carries the N8 from the old towards the new roundabout).

Quote:

The might be space to the east of the interchange near the freight yard (is that closed?).

The site in the Faber Maunsell feasibility study was immediately east of the road bridge carrying the N8 north towards Fermoy (which is itself farther east than the other bridge) and west of the closed North Esk level crossing; on Live Search's bird's-eye views, the study's intended car-park site looks like an abandoned site compound. Access was going to be from the eastbound N25. I don't know whether IÉ have changed the location of the platforms, parking or access in the meantime. The freight yard (North Esk) is farther east again; there are a few industrial buildings and another road bridge separating the crossing from the yard.

Colm R

07-07-2008 08:56

NRA = State agency paid for by us.

IE = Semi State company essentially owned by us.

Cork County Council = State agency paid for by us.

Work together God Dam it. Come up with a solution that will make Dunkettle partially free flow with easy access to a station car park for people coming from the East and North. And how to go about this - hire one Architect, one tender process, one contruction company.

Dkettle

07-07-2008 12:24

This is really intriguing. The County Development Plan was revised just over a year ago to accommodate the Park and Ride, this was a very public process. The map shows the new Park and Ride facility wedged up against the North East of the Dunkettle Interchange, but amazingly this sailed through at the time.

I was at an exhibition of RPA / Cork Co Co's plans for an upgrade to Dunkettle Road last week, and when I queried the fact that footpaths did not continue all the way to the railway site I was told that O'Flynn's would be providing these as part of their massive development (which does not have planning permission).

It seems also that a slip road will be built coming from Cork, underneath the N8 North of the Dunkettle Interchange, to allow fast access FROM THE CITY to the Park and Ride, logical or what? Again provided by O'Flynn's!

The North Esk freight yard has plenty of space for a Park and Ride, and would not impinge on any junction upgrade. It would however make O'Flynn's proposal (1200 "units") seem less sustainable as it would massively reduce the amount of it within 20 minutes walk of the station, the guideline that they themselves are touting as ideal.

There is more than just a lack of joined up thinking going on here.

Derek Wheeler

07-07-2008 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dkettle (Post 34318)

There is more than just a lack of joined up thinking going on here.

Ask Fianna Fail. I bet they know.:eek:

dowlingm

08-07-2008 14:44

Can we have the banging head against wall emoticon imported please? (see below)

Really needed...

Colm Moore

09-07-2008 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dkettle (Post 34318)

It seems also that a slip road will be built coming from Cork, underneath the N8 North of the Dunkettle Interchange, to allow fast access FROM THE CITY to the Park and Ride, logical or what? Again provided by O'Flynn's!

That would be the original N25 before the dual carriageway was built.

/wanders off to CCC website.

EDIT: Dunkettle information is listed, but not online.

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%2...opment%20Plans

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%2...0Plan%20Review

Is the Faber Maunsell study available online?

comcor

09-07-2008 20:31

Would North Esk not be too close to Little Island station for it to be practical as a station location in its own right?

Colm Moore

09-07-2008 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by comcor (Post 34414)

Would North Esk not be too close to Little Island station for it to be practical as a station location in its own right?

The problem - and I imagine this is what the row is about - is that the interchange needs a lot of land. Its going to be more complicated than the N7-M50 Red Cow interchange with the added complication of the slope from the Glanmire Bypass down into the tunnel restricting the options available, although at least the railway isn't at grade. :)

Prof_Vanderjuice

10-07-2008 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor (Post 34407)

Is the Faber Maunsell study available online?

It was, but it doesn't seem to be any more. (I have a local pdf copy if anybody's interested.)

Mark Gleeson

10-07-2008 16:30

The ARUP study is online though

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/2558.pdf

Various other reports http://www.railusers.ie/resources/rail_projects.php

A copy of the Faber Maunsell study would be nice :)

Colm Moore

24-07-2008 23:11

So this is a copy of the variation that included the park and ride in the development plan. Its not online on the Cork County Council website for some reason - maybe this is why the NRA missed it. :) The variation modifies both the overall county development plan and the local development plan, hence it is in two parts.

There are two issues:
1. It is really difficult to make the interchange freeflow without the site suggested for the park and ride.
2. The access to the site suggested for the park and ride is problematic:
a. It can't come off the existing roundabout as it is already overly busy.
b. If the interchange is upgraded the park and ride still won't have access as any potential access will be designed out to make the interchange freeflow.

Neither of these is fatal, as you could access the park and ride from the local roads, but it does make the P&R car park rather complicated with two slip roads running through it and another two elevated slip roads over it.

I also attach a drawing with a suggested layout for the interchange upgrade. The design would probably need to be quite close to this if it is to be fully free-flowing. The main problem arises with the slope down to the tunnel, which prevents the layoutt from being mirrored. The P&R site is outlined in white.

http://localhostr.com/files/ce21aa/D...ndment%201.pdf
http://localhostr.com/files/8f97e6/D...ment%201. pdf
http://localhostr.com/files/a1eb76/D...iation%205.pdf
http://localhostr.com/files/dbab25/dunkettle4a.jpg

Colm Moore

02-03-2009 23:21

€400m housing development in Cork gets the green light

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...241835024.html

Quote:

€400m housing development in Cork gets the green light
LOUISE ROSEINGRAVE

THE DEVELOPER responsible for Ireland’s tallest building, the Elysian tower in Cork, has got permission for a €400 million development of 1,200 houses on the outskirts of Cork city. Planning was granted yesterday for the 235-acre site close to the Dunkettle roundabout and Glanmire village.

Developer Michael O’Flynn, managing director of O’Flynn Construction, plans to proceed with the project despite plummeting property prices.

O’Flynn completed the €150 million Elysian apartment complex and Japanese Gardens in Cork city last year, but most of the apartments in the 17-storey tower lie empty. His latest project will see two new neighbourhoods built at Dunkettle and Ballinglanna – 6km east of Cork city – to include local retail and community facilities.

The historic Dunkettle House, a protected structure which is located on the site, will be fully renovated and a management plan to ensure its long-term future is to be put in place. It is hoped Dunkettle House will become a visitor attraction and its extensive grounds will serve as parklands for the estimated 2,500 residents of the new housing development.

The 1,200 homes will be built on a phased basis over a 10-year period and will eventually be served by a new railway station at Dunkettle, part of the Cork to Midleton rail line.

The approved development is an amalgamation of two separate planning applications turned down by An Bord Pleanála in 2004. At the time, the planning board had recommended that a masterplan including both developments be drawn up for the greenfield site.

The decision to permit the O’Flynn Construction scheme provides for substantial new improvements to the Dunkettle Road and the Dunkettle interchange, two of the main eastern gateway points into Cork city, which will be carried out in conjunction with the proposed new neighbourhoods.

Facilities at the site will include a retail centre, two creches and a medical centre. A parcel of land is to be reserved for the provision of a 16-classroom primary school and a day-care centre for older people.

Recreational amenities will include a multipurpose community hall, play areas and “multiuse games areas”.

dowlingm

06-03-2009 18:54

So the trick is wait for the station to be built and then you don't have to pay for its provision, just the roads? Or has the IT missed a contribution OFC are making to the project?

Dkettle

12-03-2009 14:10

They are required to pay 6m euro towards the upgrade of Dunkettle Road, just under 1m euro towards the railway station, and intriguingly, operate a shuttle bus from Glanmire to the Dunkettle station for a period of 3 years after it opens. But let's wait and see...

Thomas Ralph

12-03-2009 14:14

Those upgrades would both be badly needed in Cork.

Prof_Vanderjuice

11-12-2009 18:59

Bord Pleanála has refused permission for the station as "premature pending the determination by the Planning Authority and the NRA of a road layout for the Dunkettle Interchange" - http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/229796.htm

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