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-   -   13:05 Dublin - Sligo 25th May (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=15705)

sublimity 27-05-2018 21:00

13:05 Dublin - Sligo 25th May
 
Took this train on Friday to Sligo and I was genuinely horrified when I realised it was a 29K at the platform.

Some of my friends had to stand for the whole journey. The toilets were also filthy.

How can Irish Rail justify using these commuter trains for a 3 hour journey all the way to Sligo?

I cannot believe they are still being used. Can they not use a MK4 if there are no 22ks available?

All trains to Sligo should be of intercity standard.

I will be lodging a complaint to Irish Rail tomorrow.:mad:

Jamie2k9 27-05-2018 21:40

You are wasting your time complaining, its been a 2900 for years however was briefly replaced by a 22000 for a few months but I guess numbers exceeded capacity.

The Mark IV are not available either.

Inniskeen 28-05-2018 09:52

I don't think it has anything to do with capacity on the 1305 - the 4 car 2900 provides less seats than the ICR.

The set of the 1305 is used to augment the 1600 to Sligo on Fridays. There are alternatives

1) Run the standard sized 1600 Sligo non stop Drumcondra to Mullingar (or beyond) on a Friday with a 29k relief to Mullingar.

2) Requision an ICR from either the Docklands/M3 Parkway or Grand Canal Dock/Newbridge service and substitute with the 29k currently used on the 1305.

ThomasJ 28-05-2018 11:49

Icrs should not be used on m3 parkway. They don't have the capacity and are known to leave passengers on that line on the platform as theres no space on board.

Direct switch

sublimity 28-05-2018 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 (Post 79453)
You are wasting your time complaining, its been a 2900 for years however was briefly replaced by a 22000 for a few months but I guess numbers exceeded capacity.

The Mark IV are not available either.

Well the more people complain about this, the better the chance of Irish Rail actually doing something about this.

sublimity 28-05-2018 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen (Post 79454)
I don't think it has anything to do with capacity on the 1305 - the 4 car 2900 provides less seats than the ICR.

The set of the 1305 is used to augment the 1600 to Sligo on Fridays. There are alternatives

1) Run the standard sized 1600 Sligo non stop Drumcondra to Mullingar (or beyond) on a Friday with a 29k relief to Mullingar.

2) Requision an ICR from either the Docklands/M3 Parkway or Grand Canal Dock/Newbridge service and substitute with the 29k currently used on the 1305.

I like the second option

sublimity 28-05-2018 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJ (Post 79455)
Icrs should not be used on m3 parkway. They don't have the capacity and are known to leave passengers on that line on the platform as theres no space on board.

Direct switch

Agreed Thomas. Let's hope this happens soon.

Jamie2k9 29-05-2018 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen (Post 79454)
I don't think it has anything to do with capacity on the 1305 - the 4 car 2900 provides less seats than the ICR.

The set of the 1305 is used to augment the 1600 to Sligo on Fridays. There are alternatives

1) Run the standard sized 1600 Sligo non stop Drumcondra to Mullingar (or beyond) on a Friday with a 29k relief to Mullingar.

2) Requision an ICR from either the Docklands/M3 Parkway or Grand Canal Dock/Newbridge service and substitute with the 29k currently used on the 1305.

It is a capacity issue, the 13.00 cannot cope with a 4 ICR due to overcrowding hence the 2900 is used instead.

Inniskeen 30-05-2018 20:16

A 4 car ICR has around 280 seats, a 4 car 2900 about 190. The 1305 Sligo (on a Friday or any other day) wouldn't typically load more 300 passengers. The reasons for the Friday arrangement is to release the 1305 set to strengthen the 1600.

ThomasJ 30-05-2018 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen (Post 79460)
A 4 car ICR has around 280 seats, a 4 car 2900 about 190. The 1305 Sligo (on a Friday or any other day) wouldn't typically load more 300 passengers. The reasons for the Friday arrangement is to release the 1305 set to strengthen the 1600.

The issue is, if there are more than 280 on board, there's not much standing room.

I have done it before and i can tell You it is not a nice experience standing on a 22k. It's far better standing on the 29k trains .

Inniskeen 31-05-2018 12:48

The point I am making is that there are rarely 280 or more passengers on the 1305 to Sligo on a Friday or any other day. So by subsituting a 29k you are degrading the customer experience considerably by offering less seats, more noise and little or no luggage space.

There is a surprising amount of standing space on an ICR but the corridors and vestibule sizes make ingress and egress difficult and unpleasant. Mind you a hopelessly stuffed 2900 is not a pleasant experience eithet.

ACustomer 31-05-2018 22:07

On the customer-merits of 22k ICRs versus 29k scommuter stock on the Sligo line, take
Quote:

A 4 car ICR has around 280 seats, a 4 car 2900 about 190
(Inniskeen),
Quote:

it is not a nice experience standing on a 22k. It's far better standing on the 29k trains
(ThomasJ) and
Quote:

there are rarely 280 or more passengers on the 1305 to Sligo on a Friday or any other day
(Inniskeen).

I assume the choice is between 4-ICR and 8-29k (4-29k is obviously inferior on any count). This is effectively a choice between 280 seats (ICR) and 380 seats (29k). Assuming 300 to 350 passengers this means 280 seated comfortably in the ICR with 20 to 70 standing, probably only as far as Mullingar for the most part. While they will all be seated on the 29k they will not be nearly as comfortable. You have to look at the comfort of both seated and standees, plus the numbers involved and the likely duration of having to stand.

In my opinion the ICR scores best in this situation.

Inniskeen 01-06-2018 06:41

Just to be clear, we are taking about a 4 car 2900 operating the 1305 on a Friday , so if you had 350 passengers at least 160 would be standing. On a 4 × ICR, the number standing would be 70. To be honest I am not sure whether the normal 1305 formation is a 3 or a 4 car ICR.

Jamie2k9 01-06-2018 13:23

4 car is 264 seated. Inniskeen are your passenger estimates reliable because I was always under the impression it they needed to run a 7 car instead of the usual 4 car. Student traffic should be heavy on this service and there was differently reports of overcrowding in the past (i.e when it was 4 car, 2900 before reverting back to 4 car and now 2900).

The 15.05 is increased from 4 to 7 and I suspect the 16.00 was only 4 however, the latest reasoning behind the return of the 2900 may be to have also increased the 16.00 to 7 as well.

Between 40-60 standing on a 4 car ICR can become very cramped when you add baggage as well so if numbers are 350 then you can see why a 4 car 2900 has replaced a 4 car ICR.

Traincustomer 04-06-2018 17:12

Quote:

“Iarnród Éireann will be introducing a 10-minute frequency on DART services, additional off-peak services on the Maynoothline, an additional service in each direction on the Sligo line and new off-peak services on the Kildare line operating through the Phoenix Park tunnel.
Bold text: my emphasis

Source:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/new...-numbers-jump/
Published Sunday 3rd June. Aside: rather unusual to release over a bank holiday weekend.

berneyarms 04-06-2018 17:41

I would imagine this is simply reinstating the trains that were cut from the timetable during the recession to cut costs.

Restoring the 07:05 and 09:05 ex-Dublin and the 17:00 and 19:00 ex-Sligo which were merged.

Inniskeen 05-06-2018 06:57

Hope the NTA & Irish Rail are following the timetable change chaos saga in the UK. Ten minute DART alone will generate unwanted congestion, adding additional Maynooth and Kildare services as well should ensure near peak period congestion all day. Expect a much less reliable timetable, increased cancellations (particularly of Greystones services) and even slower journey times for longer distance users on the northern, eastern and midland lines. Not very clever or progressive at all.

While off peak frequency increases on the Maynooth line and to a lesser extent on the Kilare line are justifiable and just about deliverable, a 50% increase in DART is neither required nor operationall sustainable.

Inniskeen 05-06-2018 07:11

Incidentally restoration of the early morning service to Sligo and the later evening return service together with, I assume, the re-scheduling of the 0800 from Dublin and the 1800 from Sligo requires no additional rolling stock.

berneyarms 05-06-2018 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen (Post 79469)
Hope the NTA & Irish Rail are following the timetable change chaos saga in the UK. Ten minute DART alone will generate unwanted congestion, adding additional Maynooth and Kildare services as well should ensure near peak period congestion all day. Expect a much less reliable timetable, increased cancellations (particularly of Greystones services) and even slower journey times for longer distance users on the northern, eastern and midland lines. Not very clever or progressive at all.

While off peak frequency increases on the Maynooth line and to a lesser extent on the Kilare line are justifiable and just about deliverable, a 50% increase in DART is neither required nor operationall sustainable.

That’s a lot of doom and gloom predicted there.

Given that DART running times are to increase (per the last draft) to reflect reality that should mean greater reliability not poorer.

Let’s wait and see before being unduly negative.

berneyarms 05-06-2018 18:07

Just to add that the reasons for the collapse of the service with Northern Rail are:

1) Delays in delivering infrastructure improvements by Network Rail resulting in insufficient drivers completing route learning and rolling stock being cascaded elsewhere in line with contracted dates before the electrification is in place.

2) The existing rest day working with crews not being renewed.

3) A complete redraft of the new timetable being required with only 3 month notice - pretty much impossible

Both of the first two mean insufficient drivers to drive the trains and hence we have chaos.

None of these should apply to IE with regard to their new timetable.

Jamie2k9 05-06-2018 20:59

Not a major difference between IE and the UK operators, all tried to implement a schedule that was never workable. Management in complete denial or expected to get away with it.

The only difference is the UK forced an amended timetable to be put in place within days but what will happen here is delays will continue for 6-12 months before they adjust the schedule to clean up the mess. Anyone remember Galway/Westport schedule a few years ago, 6 months before they acted....

Inniskeen 07-06-2018 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms (Post 79471)
That’s a lot of doom and gloom predicted there.

Given that DART running times are to increase (per the last draft) to reflect reality that should mean greater reliability not poorer.

Let’s wait and see before being unduly negative.

I would love to be more positive but it is clear and obvious that the existing infrastructure is challenged to efficiently and reliably support the present level of service. We know that the 50% increase in DART frequency will heavily impact non DART services (the previous timetable draft tells us that). In all probability it will also impact on DART as well with smaller trains at the peak period (maths tells us that), hugely increased contention at Malahide and reduced timetable stability throughout the Connolly routes. The current off peak 15 minute interval DART service (with 8 car trains as necessary) is generally more adequate even on the sunniest of summer days at the height of the holiday season (Bray airshow and similar events excluded).

Inniskeen 07-06-2018 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms (Post 79472)
Just to add that the reasons for the collapse of the service with Northern Rail are:

1) Delays in delivering infrastructure improvements by Network Rail resulting in insufficient drivers completing route learning and rolling stock being cascaded elsewhere in line with contracted dates before the electrification is in place.

2) The existing rest day working with crews not being renewed.

3) A complete redraft of the new timetable being required with only 3 month notice - pretty much impossible

Both of the first two mean insufficient drivers to drive the trains and hence we have chaos.

None of these should apply to IE with regard to their new timetable.

I believe item 2) (or a very similar variant) may come crashing onto the stage shortly resulting in service cancellations.

Another major issue with IR's proposed timetable is not that the necessary infrastructure hasn't been completed but that a) it doesn't exist and b) that apart from the Grand Canal Dock improvements, much operational flexibility that once existed or could easily have been provided is missing e.g Dun Laoghaire loop and south crossover, Merrion crossovers, Howth Junction (north trailing crossover), Clongriffin (missing up loop), Skerries (north crossover) and Mosney (loop and crossovers).

Another significant recent change is the introduction of a penal 10 mph speed restriction at the south end of the loop line platforms at Connolly which adds greatly to congestion by increasing running time. (this was imposed shortly after the connections at that end of the station were removed).

I am not privy to new DART links but I imagine there will be even more crew changes at the Fairview staff platform, a ridiculous arrangement which unnecessarily reduces the limited track capacity available.

Ten minute interval DART might make off-peak DART marginally more attractive but risks diminishing the relevance, revenue and market share of the Connolly routes as a whole.


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