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-   -   Navan Rail link - Phase 2 (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=14366)

Traincustomer 17-09-2017 16:11

Both ideas are very good and if money were no object both are ideal.

However I'm thinking of the solution which can be delivered at the lowest cost and implemented in the shortest possible timeframe.

A basic commuter rail service from Navan would need to be accompanied by a suite of complementary measures e.g. dedicated connecting buses from around the town (in any case the Navan town bus network is being redesigned in the near future).

In my view the main barrier to such a project is not financial but the will to actually do it; like most things rail related every conceivable project or idea will generate an artificially high price tag and a list of reasons to make it seem impossible.

Goods 21-09-2017 11:18

Naval link
Today it would not be possible to put the rail infrastructure in place that already exists around Navan, bridges, crossings, and even purchasing the line route. Despite this the authorities cannot come up with an imaginative idea of connecting up all this and making it accessible for commuters. The structure is already in place but the creativity and ideas are missing. Politicians in Ireland can only see new roads because there is a very powerful road building lobby that can influence the TDs but because rail is in public ownership there is less momentum. The people of Meath should insist on linking up the current infrastructure before it dissappears

Inniskeen 23-09-2017 15:46

While introducing Navan/Dublin commuter rail services via Drogheda is not the ideal option, a useful service could be established by investing a small fraction of what would be required to complete the line from Clonsilla.

The main requirement would be to upgrade the line to a sufficient standad to support up to 90 mph thus bringing the Navan to Drogheda jorney time down to 15 minutes or less. Navan trains could run limited stop beyond Drogeda, perhaps with a similar stopping pattern to the 0630 from Newry, but continuing to the Grand Canal Dock turnback. Journey time to Connolly of 55 to 65 minutes should be possible and would be sufficiently competive to attract business. Completion of the layout at Clongriffin would give some flexibility for faster trains to overtake the capacity hogging and slow moving DART trains.

This would be an interim measure to parially satisfy the demand for commuter rail services from Navan.

Thomas Morelli 23-09-2017 22:57

Would it be a good idea to have a Drogheda to Navan shuttle service that would connect with the Dublin to Belfast trains, and also the Dublin to Dundalk expresses?

ACustomer 24-09-2017 18:54

Services from Navan via Drogheda would involve more costs and complications than one might think. For a start, one would need lots of capacity enhancement between Drogheda and Dublin as it's already congested in places. Other possible projects such as an Airport link from Clongriffin and also the Interconnector already run up against constraints in the first 7 miles or so out of Connolly.

No doubt signalling improvements and plenty of options for two-way working would help, but South of Clongriffin there would be a need for 3 or 4 tracks (hugely costly because housing has been allowed close to the existing line).

Doesn't help if we have a Transport minister who is more fixated on law enforcement issues (breath tests, Sandyford Garda Station and judicial appointments) than on actual transport issues. Sorry to get political, but lack of real political will on public transport infrastructure is at the root of many problems, such as housing.

Goods 26-09-2017 08:02

Costs have been put forward as issues with both the Cloncilla and Drogheda options from Navan but if you compared the costs of the motorways it would be only a fraction. The key is that the infrastructure is in place but not the political will. Look at the Phoenix park tunnel. CIE resisted its introduction for years pointing to a congested Connolly and signals difficulty. In modern cities trains are moving within minutes of each other but with modern control systems this is possible. Navan is already connected by rail but has no political punch to deliver - cost is not the issue its vision and will.

Thomas Morelli 03-10-2017 20:47

Does anyone have the figures for daily journeys made on Clonsilla - M3 Parkway at the moment?

Goods 04-10-2017 11:16

nationaltransport.ie rail review 2016 has a lot of data including about Clonsilla. Of course at the moment it's a poor option for Navan commuters.

Goods 15-11-2017 03:42

Navan rail

The demand is there but the strategic thinking is not in the Dáil where they are only keeping an eye on the next election fixing potholes. The rail infrastructure around Dublin and especially Navan rail link should be restored.

Inniskeen 16-11-2017 17:18

Navan North, on the Kingscourt line, was part of Phase 2 of the line from Clonsilla. I would think that this would be a common sense part of any reopening either via Dunboyne or Drogheda.

Not sure that I would commit to opening a station at Duleek given that costs would be high and it would be another drag on the journey time.

comcor 16-11-2017 17:27

Is the alignment up from M3 Parkway in a good enough state that there's any significant financial benefit in using it?

I was wondering if a future airport line could be extended Ashbourne and Ratoath to join it near Dunshaughlin. It would mean a lot more significant population centres on the way to Navan than going entirely up the old alignment.

Mark Gleeson 19-11-2017 21:19

Alignment is a bit of mess, multiple points where the alignment is encroached

M3 - Navan was priced at 450 million and it didn't stack up

Coming over from Dublin airport is unlikely as the alignment from Clongiffin is overland and that keeps costs down

Goods 10-12-2018 13:53

Reopen Navan railway link
"The Government’s recently published Project Ireland 2040, comprising the National Planning Framework (NPF) and the National Development Plan (NDP), confirms a number of key public transport investment priorities. It also recognises that over the period of the plan it will be very important to examine the role that the interurban rail network can play in enhancing regional connectivity. In this regard, the NDP notes that the NTA is required to review its Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy every six years and by the end of 2021. This review will include a reappraisal of the proposed extension of the Dunboyne/M3 Parkway line to Navan taking into account the scale of new and planned development along the route, and this will allow for its consideration during the NDP Mid-Term Review".

James Shields 11-12-2018 13:32

I don't think there's any political interest in the Navan rail project in the current government, and I really don't think it has any chance as long as we have a FF/FG led government.

However, I do think it will resurface eventually.

The old alignment is still fairly intact, though there's not much trace of the railway to be found. There are a few parts that have been built on, and it would have to be evaluated whether it will be more viable to reroute or reclaim the original alignment. Using the old alignment should at least mean a level straight path a new trackbed can be built on.

A new alignment from the airport is an interesting idea, but I can't see it being considered with the current Metro plan as it would be 3-4 times the length of the line from the city centre, and would have radically different service frequency. If a Clongriffin-Airport DART extension was under consideration, then perhaps they could look at extending that to Ashbourne/Ratoath, and following the N2 past Kentstown, before joining with the Navan-Drogheda line to the east of Navan. It's hard to see this being the cheaper option, and it would probably need 4-tracking of the Howth Junction to Connolly section to cope with the traffic.

I think the only viable way a Navan line might happen in the shorter term is via the Navan-Drogheda line, which would need to be upgraded for passenger use. The problem is the Drogheda commuter line is already pretty busy, and fitting extra trains into the gaps between DARTs is getting increasingly difficult.

Mark Gleeson 11-12-2018 14:35

Had the M3 not been built we would have a railway to Navan, no question.

Had the M3 Parkway station been on the northern side of the toll as was the original plan to site it at Drumree near Dunshaughlin, the story could be different again.

There were some serious games going on with the M3 which may justify some investigation, the planning docs alone were questionable and missed the magic bridge issue where the M3 blocked the railway.

Goods 11-12-2018 22:11

The likelihood is that the Navan rail project was scuppered by vested interests that had the ear of the politicians in a similar way to many major infrastructural projects in Ire. Public interest projects rely on senior civil servants to implement them but they must have the political support to make the agenda in the first instance. So far Navan rail links appears to be missing the political punch depite the senior political figures that hail from Meath.

Goods 23-04-2019 09:56

Navan railway link
Navan rail line motion in the Dail. So much discussion when political action necessary to reopen railway to Navan this is an overdue public transport project that will alleviate the congestion on commute to Dublin. No vision in govt and no fight in Navan for this option.

Goods 26-04-2019 13:26

Looks like Irish Rail have seen the light regarding rail development with very positive outlook and thinking reflecting the increasing passenger figures. Public will use the rail services if they are efficient and railway lines like Navan are an option for communities in the future.

Goods 11-05-2019 08:12

No carriages to meet demand
Poor transport planning has meant that there are insuffient carriages for commuter demand. Rail is the solution to carbon crisis yet it’s obstructed at every turn.

James Shields 14-05-2019 10:59

That Eolas piece appears to have been written by Irish Rail! I'd have liked some critical analysis rather than a IE press piece.

There are new trains allegedly on the way - in a few years. Our government knows that rail investment is needed, but is doing everything it can to kick the can down the road.

If we know that new trains are coming, and that electrification will be the future, why not start work on the electrification of the Maynooth, Kildare and Drogheda lines now? Some of the new trains will be dual mode diesel/electric, but the sooner electrification starts, the more rail can contribute to emissions reduction. Does it make any sense to delay the project till new rolling stock arrives?

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