The barrier system in Heuston
 

Below you will find an e mail i have just sent to Irish Rail. It relates to the fact they are now making every person put their ticket into the barrier machine when they know full well that A LOT of them don't work and never have.

Its the same staff members every day and i have the same conversation. Its causing me to miss a bus some mornings and the knock on is that i am in work late, have to stay late, have to get a later train and am home late. Its just a complete joke and all the staff to is say the mantra "talk to customer services" when they know well you are either in a hurry to get to work or get a train to go home.

Here is what i sent them............

I am sick to the teeth of the my ticket not working in the barriers in Heuston.

This morning 6 staff members stood around 1 barrier to get people who's tickets did not work ( at least 50 )to put theit tickets in the machine 1 by 1.

This is fine if you want to check that the customers ticket is valid. But 1 machine and 6 staff memebers.

One of these staff members named ****** ( sorry i do not have his surname ) personally told me "to have some manners" when i questioned why this idiotic shambles of a system is still being used when months its clearly not working.

Perhaps the staff member in question should look at the customer charter on how to treat customers.

With the above in mind i am due to collect my new ticket which will be valid from April 1 of this year ( great date to go with the level of service you provide 0) and i want to know how i go about getting the plastic card and not the pointless paper one i will be given that WILL NOT WORK in the barrier system in Heuston.

If you hold a rail only short hop zone ticket i.e the 1030 one it will be replaced with a smartcard either on request or on renewal. Several thousand annual smartcard tickets have been issued. Due to restrictions imposed by the DoT no smartcard with luas/bus may be issued.

Any ticket which is refused is as a result of the ticket being defective, the software glitches last year have been sorted, though it is likely the ticket will need to be replaced before it will work again.

The level of ticket failures at Heuston massively exceeds that seen elsewhere. What error message does the barrier give?

If your ticket is a rail-only, as Mark said, you will get the smartcard ticket when you renew. Current holders of rail-only tickets can exchange them for smartcards by request to the Taxsaver office.

If your ticket is rail and Dublin Bus, or any other non-rail-only ticket, the new ticket will be magnetic stripe for rail. This is expected to change to smartcard "soon".

We have noted increased reports of poor staff attitude at Heuston

There doesn't appear to be any major hassles in Tara, Pearse and Connolly

Anyone who holds a Dublin bus issued annual ticket, the one with the separate ID card, there is a known issue with the barriers since the gate reads the smartcard on the ticket and rejects it as you insert it into the ticket reader

Mark Gleeson: you say: "Due to restrictions imposed by the DoT no smartcard with luas/bus may be issued".

I can understand why incompatible systems might lead one operator not to issue smartcards until the technical glitches get sorted. But what on earth does this have to do with the DoT? I thought the department was responsible for policy (God help us!) and not technical issues.

DoT told DB and IR that they could not make their tickets interoperable because it would impede the work of the PRA in developing the full integrated ticket. God knows why.

The systems are fully compatible with each other, it politics which stand in the way

My ticket is for rail and feeder bus ( 92 )

I really am sick of this, i pay 2640 for this rubbish.

I don't want excuses etc, i want a system that works before its launched or don't have it at all.

I thoroughly agree.

My ticket didn't work last year and the new ticket doesn't work either. Staff in Heuston stand around chatting or on their phones. Some are mannerly but you get the occasional rude one whom you feel like you're asking them a favour to let you through the barrier...One of them said to me last week that "you have to put the ticket into the machine (I had told him it gets stuck etc) because the managers are around and are watching us"....I really don't want to hear excuses etc. I just want to get to work and get out of the frigging station!!!

Why are we paying over 2,500 euro for annual passes that don't work?

I would agree. If the ticket machines don't work with a lot of valid tickets then the ticket machines shouldn't be used. Simple.

On a related note...I have been on board quite a few trains on which the next and only stop is Heuston and before stopping at Heuston with its brand new automatic ticket validation system a ticket inspector - possibly jealous of the new ticket machines? - comes around checking for tickets anyway.

Same here. That's been going on since before the automatic checks in Heuston though. They wait until after the last stop before Heuston to do a sweep cause they're lazy. I'd say it's easy to get from the likes of Kildare to Portlaoise without having a ticket.

I wonder if the original poster would let us know if he ever receives a reply to his e-mail from Irish Rail. I would be very surprised if they even acknowledge it.

No so; on many occasions my ticket is refused - actually the machine will not even ingest the ticket despite the green light - but works happily for the next dozen occasions. In general, if no-one is using a gate it does not work, if someone else has just gone through, it never fails. If it is refused, it has always worked at another gate.

I have a point to point with Luas/90 addon so it is still the magnetic strip type.

I notice this morning a group of staff dirercting everyone to machines when previously they frequently let people through without checking.

If you look carefully you will see that the machine is likely displaying 'smartcard only' or some other message It does that when the mechanism is jammed.

The key to getting this resolved is to get the exact text which is displayed by the turnstile when it refuses the ticket. From that we can find out if

1. Is it the software in the gate
2. The ticket is unreadable
3. The ticket is encoded wrongly

We have put a fair few ticket scenarios to IE which tripped up the gates and they did get fixed. Irish Rail did issue a batch of annuals with the wrong expiry date a while back. The software was changed and a number of defective readers replaced and from experience the gates in Heuston have a very permissive set of rules compared to elsewhere.

The biggest tip, do not insert the ticket into the validator on the bus, thats a very common point at which the ticket becomes unreadable. If a ticket is refused it was probably damaged by the previous validation.

If you do have a rail only Dublin Short Hop zone ticket, get it replaced with a smartcard for free. There is a proactive program on going to swap these tickets out which has included IE staff showing up at large taxsaver customers to swap the tickets. The smartcard solution is the best as the magstripe option is never going to be 100% robust plus it eliminates the excessive resissue charge following loss/theft.

In Heuston: Gate with green arrow illuminated:-

• Display says 'Please wait' - ticket cannot be inserted into the ticket slot.
• Display says 'Ready' - the ticket passes throught and the gate opens.

I think a more positive signal is required if the machine is not accepting magnetic stripe tickets than the display saying 'Please wait'. Perhaps if a yellow light was displayed to indicate smartcard only or, if the machine is faulty, a red light.

The yellow light request is in for several months

I don't know how old any of the other posters here are but I have been travelling on CIE trains since the mid-1960s and have seen more different ticket barriers than you can shake a big stick at. The one thing they have all had in common is that they do not work! They are the product of a management obsessed with shedding staff at whatever cost. Why have a team of ticket checkers who can check tickets/provide a level of security and perform other useful tasks when you can spend thousands on the latest useless barrier technology. The pic below shows crowds arriving in London in 1934 for a football match - how many barriers did they pass through? And don't give me the bull about the cost of wages back then.

When my annual pass goes into the machine, the machine gives the message "Ticket invalid". The pass goes in and out of the reader section a few times and eventually the machine just spews it back at me!!! The ticket is valid since January so it's not invalid and it didn't work from the first day it was valid from. One of the guys at the gate, told me I must have had it in with my mobile phone! Which I didn't...

Is it possible that my ticket can't be read by a machine at Heuston because of the bus/luas add on? In order to get this option on the pass, I had to get it vaild to Connolly. At least that's what I understood when ordering it through work.

Does your ticket state

X to Heuston
Valid Bus 90/Luas

OR

X to Connolly
Valid Bus 90/Luas

That sounds like a software validity error, if the ticket was damaged you get the wrong side up error normally. Normally through Heuston the ticket is to Heuston plus the 90/luas add on, so to Connolly despite being valid could be confusing the system. We have asked for an elimination of Heuston/Connolly/Tara/Pearse/Docklands into a single destination of Dublin Central either with or without the 90/Luas

Hi Mark,

It's :

Athy to Connolly
Valid Bus 90/Luas


When ordering it to Heuston with a city centre bus/luas add-on, that's the ticket I got...

Hmm

Thats a software glitch, I'll forward it up the tree and find out what the solution is, either software fix or replace with Athy-Heuston bus90/luas which is exactly the same. Hopefully the ticket will just magically work.

Mark thats the same as mine, i am so sick of it. I don't have time wander around ordering new tickets.

Mine worked the 1st day and that was it, no more.

I have a new ticket from next week so we'll see if it works at all..........:rolleyes:

Athy-Connolly?

My Annual ticket is Kildare-Connolly with Luas/90 addon and, once a ticket gate accepts it, the ticket normally works.

I think tickets issued by TVM are to Hueston with City Centre add-on (which I think only goes as far as Abbey St)

The issue has been flagged with IE, once there is a way to recreate the issue it can be fixed. Clearly the software in the gates sees Connolly and rejects on that

The city centre add-on is valid on the Red line in the Central 1 zone (i.e. Heuston to Connolly and George's Dock), or on Dublin Bus routes 90, 91, and 92.

Not with my Kildare-Connlolly ticket! It works fine.

The only issue I have with gates at Heuston is that some have a green arrow, but will not accept a ticket - ticket will not go into the machine. If the ticket won't go in, it can't be validated. There is no problem with the ticket being valid or otherwise.

If you get a gate with a green arrow, it could be smartcard only (yellow arrow fix requested) or just confused. We have devised a reset procedure, presenting any smartcard normally causes a reset if the gate is not in smartcard only.

I spoke to the customer service desk last week and one of the "managers" at "meet the managers" on Tuesday, about the fantastic charade that must take place every time I come to a ticket barrier.

Apparently smartcards are not available for annual ticket holders with destinations that are not "short hop" (or some other hop like that) but that they realise that such tickets are not going to work in the machines. They said that the software had been changed to accept more tickets, but that they were informing their staff that they were to let annual ticket holders with valid tickets through, without trying the tickets.

Yesterday, I had to drive, but this morning in Heuston, there was only one ticket checker, who was dealing with an inbound train. As I had 3 minutes to catch my train I waved my card at him, but no, the charade had to happen again. The staff member told me that he hadn't been told anything.

Maybe Irish Rail ticket checkers need to "meet the management."

On the 18.35 Heuston-Waterford at the moment. As far as could see everyone was sent through the barriers before we got on. Not even 20 mins into the journey and the ticket checker is doing his rounds. We are not due to hit the first stop at Athy for another 20+ minute or so. Anyone know why they do this? Are the barriers for show only?

To check for people traveling beyond the station on the ticket, or 'gapping' for having a ticket for the start and end but not the middle

A headcount on each train is important as well

There was a incident on an afternoon train from Waterford today as well so eyes are out to prevent the troublemakers from returning home

The barriers only check that you have a valid ticket - not a ticket to where you are going. For example a ticket valid to Sallins will pass the barriers but not an on-board inspection.

There are a number of services, especially suburban to Portlaoise, Carlow, Athlone, Thurles etc that have no on-board staff, apart from the driver, and, for these, the barriers are the only check.

Until the time when all stations have exit barriers ticket checkers will still have a job.

UPDATE: This evening 3 checkers in orange coats decended on the 1840 to Thurles - at least on person was found without a ticket; maybe these 'no staff' trains are a bit tempting for those risking travelling without a ticket?

hmmm
I'd like to see the "business case" for the barriers.

Hard to see how they might be value for money....

I noticed that my annual ticket (Kildare-Connolly) is being rejected, after the machine make several attempts to read it, by some of the exit gates at Platforms 6-7-8 but usually works at the main concourse. Strange.....

In the case of tickets not working please try to check the message on the orange LED screen (just below the green arrow), as it helps in diagnosing errors. "Wrong side up/Bun os cionn" and "Ticket failed/theip ar an ticeid" usually mean either the ticket, the reader, or both are faulty. "No valid route/nil aon bealach ceart" means the ticket was read properly but the system thinks it's wrong.

And if its says No valid route/nil aon bealach ceart post here the start and destination stations, the ticket type and when the error was seen, on entry or on exit

We can then forward that to our contacts in Irish Rail who can debug the fault. Other errors try another turnstile if you have no joy likely the ticket is a dud

Tickets collected from booking offices will NOT work the gates, ticket collected from the machines SHOULD work the gates. Ticket collection machines will be available at all intercity stations in the next few weeks.

Ok here is the reply i got from Irish Rail................

Hi Ron,

I understand the frustration that your Annual ticket not working is causing you and on behalf of Iarnród Éireann I would like to apologise for the inconvenience caused to you.

The interim Rail Only Smartcard is currently being rolled out to the Short Hop Zone (as far as Balbriggan, Maynooth, Kilcoole and Hazelhatch).

I note from checking the Taxsaver orders that you hold a Portarlington – Connolly, Point-Point ticket, purchased through the **********
As this is an integrated ticket, with Luas and Dublin Bus services, it falls under the Railway Procurement Agency Smartcard project. The integrated Bus/Rail/Luas
Smartcard project is organised outside the CIE group, by the Railway Procurement Agency. The latest date for go live of the RPA integrated project is March, 2011

In the interim period, I am planning on organising a replacement procedure on site at Heuston in the coming weeks for any Customers that have faulty magnetic tickets. This will be communicated through Taxsaver administrators, ******** in your department.

I have forwarded your email to the relevant Manager in Heuston station in relation to your comments on the Customer Service at the station. I trust this clarifies the matter
for you but do not hesitate to contact me directly on 7034003 if you require any further assistance.

Regards,

******




Ok so i get my NEW ticket on April 1:rolleyes: and it lasts for 3 days before it stops working just like the last two tickets i've got...........

Here is my reply this morning to Irish Rail


I used my new annual tickey for 3 DAYS and it has stopped working already.

Rude staff again, pointless waiting again, money wasted again !

I am paying for a product which does not work as described.

Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services act, good must be fit for their purpose. This ticket clearly is not as it won't work in the machines that are there over a year.

Your company have had enough time to sort this out.

I want to new ticket to be delivered to Heuston for my collection and every time it gives up ( which it no doubt will ) i want another one until you get this complete mess sorted.

There were a que of over 40 people waiting to get through the pointless barrrier this morning and one member of staff who couldn't care less and went at his Irish Rail pace.

As i have stated above i would like a new ticket to be available for collection in Heuston ASAP.

I am also considering connecting the press about this matter as there are a number of people in the same boat as me who pay a lot of money for this rubbish system and level of customer service as Heuston Station.

Regards,

A train ticket is not a good, so section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1893 (as amended by section 10 of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980), requiring goods to be of merchantable quality, does not apply to it. What you've bought is a service (transport) and your ticket is evidence that you've bought it.

I refer to my post #16 in this thread - which has had no response due to the fact that I'm either correct or a nutter - and I still maintain that properly trained, well motivated platform staff are better and more all round use to the travelling public than ticket barriers with very limited shelf lives. RUI in common with CIE/IE have an unhealthy fetish with modernity.

well, i didnt see anyone disagreeing with you.

Ok i bought the service and i need to get through the barrier to use the service and i need my ticket to work to get through the barrier ??????

Chicken + egg :confused: