Public Consultation PPT & Heuston Services 2016
 

Not had a look but minor changes to sum Heuston services as a result.


http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenix...icconsultation

Yep services to gcd will be peak time only for the time being.

These are the changes to existing services I can see:
08.30 to Portlaoise - Advanced to 08.25
17.20 to Portlaoise - Deferred to 17.25
17.25 to Limerick - Advanced to 17.20
17.55 to Newbridge - Cancelled
18.10 to Portlaoise - Advanced to 18.05
18.55 to Portlaoise - Deferred 19.05

06.05 from Waterford - Advanced to 06.00
07.20 from Portlaoise - Advanced to 07.17
19.15 from Newbridge - Cancelled

Useless for me as the are no Feeder Bus times shown fron Celbridge to / from Hazelhatch Station - it looks I will be applying for a Dublin Bus Taxsaver Ticket this year for the first time in the umpteen years of having such a Rail (Short Hop) Taxsaver Ticket.

gw: If bus feeder times from Hazlehatch are not shown, you should enquire about them. It doesn't mean that there aren't any, just that a draft rail timetable hasn't listed them, possibly because the whole thing is only a draft and buses will be finalised only when the train arrangements are finalised.

Thanks for that but I have to apply for my Annual Taxsaver Ticket next month - what am I supposed to do with it, if the Feeder Bus does not suit the trains that I generally use to get to Heuston. It won't be possible for (Birchalls) to provide extra buses to service trains to GCD as well, as they also run School Buses in the Celbridge area. I am assuming that the times of the Feeder Bus will be changed to connect with both services. I cant see the point in hanging around at Hazelhatch Station just to get a train that brings me into Heuston. :eek:

What specific changes would people like?

In pushing for faster trains, the number of connections lost is huge. From Cork to Westport, the first arrival of the day is is 15:55(!), it could be 10:55.

The seem to not be stopping the PPT trains at Platform 10 and it seems Kishogue isn't opening.

One of the early morning Limerick Colbert to Heuston services should start at Ennis. Based on the draft timetable, the earliest arrival in Heuston from Ennis is 09:47 (via Athenry).

This appears to only be a temp schedule to get it up on running. I would expect another in 2017 when PPT is expanded and they cut IC times.

They can't...

I don't see any radical changes such as a remove possibility of an Ennis link as it's incredibility difficult because of the 40 minute single track journey. The only way you could fit it in would be converting the 05.55 Galway to an ICR and joining up the regular 06.40 set and run to Ennis at 05.10 and split continuing to Galway and the return to Heuston departing at 05.55. You then have platfrom issues and all. I don't think they can do much as the 05.55 is a big commuter in Galway and the 06.50 to Limerick from Ennis is probally a busy commuter service and touching them could cost IE more than a direct Dublin service is worth.

I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself Colm. This is purely a timetable change to get the PPT trains up and running, rather than a complete Heuston timetable change. The changes to other Heuston trains are just to let the PPT trains operate.

I wouldn't expect any major changes on the Heuston side until the ballast cleaning programme on the Dublin/Cork line is completed. At that point then I would be hoping for a recast. But that's not likely to happen until the end of next year.

P10 cannot be used as there is no crossover for trains heading north beyond it. Given the remote nature of the platform, the limited nature of the service, and the fact that Heuston still has the same level of service as before I don't really see any point.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realise that the crossovers where in parallel instead of sequence. They need to move the crossover ... or build Platform 11. :) http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/53.34726/-6.30417

Not as remote as one might think - thousands of people live right next to it and many more pass right by on the bus.

Where once we had two 'never the twain shall meet' networks* with dysfunctional links, we will now have one (heavy rail) network. Each additional node on the network is worth more than the previous one. The opportunities are vast and the investment needed is modest.

* The splitting of the networks only really happened in the 1980s when Galway services were moved to Heuston.

The cost of putting in a crossover and/or access to Conyngham Road would far outweigh the approved cost of the project. There is no clearance room either side of the tracks so what you would need would be an over-track concourse with very long ramps. Not cheap.

There needs to be an element of realism here - it's a low cost project.

If service levels improve significantly in the medium term then I'd agree with you but right now it ain't going to happen.

None of that is within the scope of this consultation frankly.

Remember submissions close on Monday.

21 November start date, loaded in JP.

Have they worked out what they're going to charge people yet?

Presumably they will use the fare zones per the recent fare determination with the existing fares.

Formal announcement should come Monday

Hopefully they'll have fares for P2P annuals as well.

So here we are 10 days out before opening and nobody knows what using this new service is going to cost.

Imagine this scene in a private business.
1. I have a piece of infrastructure sitting semi-idle for around 100 years that I can't be bothered to use
2. My board of directors forces me to use this infrastructure and hands me some free money to tidy it up.
3. I invest said free money and tidy things up
4. I do service planning, make usage projections, allocate operational capacity, train staff, etc.
5. Then I decide what I'm going charge customers
6. I expect business to come flocking to me and new customers to all abandon my competitors who they've been dealing with for years.

Is it just me or would this not be an ideal way to go about doing business if one expected to be profitable and stay in business?

Did anyone spot any changes from the original draft or was the public consultation simply a wasted exercise ?

Where has the extra rolling stock come from ? Is it simply stock released by resurrecting the MK4 ?

Anybody open a book on whether it will happen on November 21st given that Irish Rail have been stalling for months using the "we are reviewing the public consultation" excuse.

There are almost zero interchange opportunities with Heuston based Intercity services despite the availability of almost unlimited idle capacity at the expansive Kildare route stations.

Given the poor integration with Heuston services and the very limited opportunities to travel to/from stations beyond Hazelhatch the new service will largely depend on business generated by the inner stations between ParkWest and Hazelhatch. Might be a slow build up but time will tell !

The fares from Sallins inwards are all in the fare determination - the final page has the suburban fares matrix.

Out proposed changes all happened but:

17.25 (Limerick) remains the same (proposed 17.20 dep)
17.20 (Portlaoise) deferred to 17.28 (proposed 17.25 dep)
17.55 (Newbridge) remains the same (proposed to cancel)****
19.15 (ex Newbridge) cancelled (proposed to cancel-note stock from 17.55 operates this

****Note that 17.55 and 17.28 (ex GCD) are working the same path to Newbridge from Park West so either it is cancelled and a journey planner error. Given the 19.15 has been removed I expect it is canceled as the 18.10 is advanced to 18.05 as proposed ex Heuston.

The 17.28 change for the 17.20 is great, anytime I get the 14.50 ex Waterford its always up to 15 minutes late (14 minute turnaround between services) and and passengers don't even give you a chance to get off the train.

Probably and likely an expectation that x service will see a drop in numbers and possible a re shuffle.

I suspect it's not all IE's fault for any delays happening...

Given only a peak service I don't see how they could. IC passengers would be more annoyed if they added stops at peak hours to cater for a few. There is not real need for IC to connect. Speed to/from Heuston needs to be priority.

But the vast majority of intercity passengers don't live / work / study across the road from Heuston - they are coming from somewhere else and many people would benefit form the possibility of getting a train from their local station and then a cross-platform change of trains to their destination.

Yes I'm sure it would, but I don't think it should not come at adding 3 minutes to a service.

It's not as if Heuston badly linked in terms of transport and every single train passenger doesn't need the opportunity to travel via PPT. Stopping all trains at Hazelhatch to connect is madness.

The Luas to Connolly, 145 more less at Tara and Pearse St.

What is the problem with transferring from IC to Commuter to Commuter/DART over IC, to Bus or Luas, to DART etc The actual time difference is minutes.

Also bear in mind it's the first set of services, I'm sure if there is a genuine case for such travel then they can more less swap/alter and operate hourly PPT to Portlaoise and maintain Heuston-Portlaoise with Cork/Limerick and shuttles as well next year.

I wouldn't be stopping every service at Hazelhatch but I would certainly consider stopping Intercity services at either Parkwest or Clondalkin (for access to/from the M50 and to get some value from the empty car park and little used station).

Initially it would only make sense to stop services at the morning and evening peaks and then only where convenient connections can be readily created.

Fair enough could be some merit in it however I think it's not an immediate priority. Should just give the service a chance and prehaps review when there is an actual new schedule from Heuston in place.

I think there will be a gradual switch of some road traffic from to GCD Kildare via PPT service, due to simpler direct service to North-South rail corridor and lower fare (inclusion into Leapcard zone for Naas).

Actually there are a large no of people who find that Heuston is the best station for them : HSE, Revenue, Dublin City Council, Courts Service, St James Hospital, students/staff DIT. Trains running to GCD are of no use to them.

________

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenixparktimes
______

Details in link of some customer feedback

20. PPT fares queries.

ADDRESSED: Travel to/from Drumcondra to GCD from stations on Heuston corridor will be within existing fare structures, with Leap fares distance based, and for cash Drumcondra to GCD treated as "city-centre add-on" as currently occurs with Luas services.

Looks like:
Leap - use new fares table
Cash - use city centre add-on fare

No info yet on Taxsaver P2P but, probably P2P + City Centre add-on at €430 per annum.

For the short hop stations the fares for services through the PPT are in the new fares table in the fare determination (cash and LEAP), and is distance based.

For outside the short hop zone I read it as you will need the city centre add on in addition to a ticket to Heuston to travel to Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara St, Pearse and GCD.

Confirmed.

Apologies for being the cynic . But I can see questions being raised in good time for why Kildare services can't use the midland line.

Thats the 37 million euro question

Lets be clear the track layout in place around Connolly works

Trains to/from Docklands can run in parallel with Phoenix Park Tunnel, so trains from Phoenix Park Tunnel are using capacity that could not be otherwise used

So launch looks to of gone rater well with minimal delays and some ticket issues. Suspect the 08.10 and 08.35 inbound services may need to be adjusted slightly as been held up at Park West because of late running IC services, time will tell.

apparently inbound maynooth trains got held up near glasnevin junction and drumcondra this morning

Quite a few Maynooth trains heavily delayed before reaching Glasnevin this morning, so can't be blamed

Some delays this evening with 15 and 25 min delays.

One service, 1758 ex GCD arrived 10 mins late in Hazlehatch at 1856 according to realtime but the connecting service to Portlaoise left on time at 1851. Therefore connecting passengers had a long 35 wait for the 1905 from Heuston. The next train, 1816 GCD-Newbridge was 25mins late. Probably a knock on effect of the DART delays.

Presumable IE don't want to disrupt Heuston services if a GCD is late. If the 1825 had been held for 10mins, it might have delayed the 1900 to Cork.

Looks like it could be complicated for those relying on connections.

Although there's a big car park there, I presume there would be some CPOs of houses required if anyone wanted to put in an additional terminating platform at Hazelhatch?

Not really, couple of options such as replicating the bay platform at Nass end with a set of points (signal equipment located currently at the bridge).

I believe IE have a little land at Dublin end of car pack, there is 2-3 houses there no occupied

I think that they may have been sold a while ago, but not developed yet.

The current arrangements in Hazelhatch would support a train every 15 minutes without issue

You also have a turn back at Adamstown which again could support a train every 15 minutes without issue.

And of course the platform in Newbridge

There is space for headhunt south of Hazelhatch is needed but no extra platform needed

Plenty of places to hide trains

Car park isn't exactly full at any station enroute