[24.09.08] 06:30 Drogheda Rosslare - A 4 Car set
 

This morning we had a 4 car 29k set in place of the usual 8 car non-29k. No announcement was made about reduced capacity.

Same story this morning on the 06:30 ex Drogheda. Is there a shortage of rolling stock on the Northern line recently?

6:30 is a 6 coach 2800 unit, not a 8 coach 29k. There isn't a spare 28k so if one breaks you get a short train. Of course be nice to be told

This one's a 4-car 29K again today, 29X21 to be specific. Car 3 has a horrendous smell in it and it doesn't even have a toilet. The accessible toilet is in an awful mess. How often are the railcars supposed to be serviced and cleaned? I miss the Mk4s and their onboard cleaner and train host...

Back on 29X21 on my way back north. The PIS has just gone insane and is going through the messages:

• 06
• 06
• 06
• .noitatS yllonnoC rof si niart sihT .murdhtaR si noitats txen ehT
• hgnohC Ã*U tS Ã*td og nieart na oeS
• .VTCC htiw dettif si niart siht ytiruces dna ytefas ruoy roF

I pity any foreigners on board trying to decipher that.

Back to the 4 car 29k set today

No change there then...

I think it is necessary to reactivate this topic. For the last weeks Irish Rail keeps sending a 2-set train to Rosslare in the mornings (6.30 am service). After Rush and Lusk the train is totally overcrowded and most uncomfortable to use. I have complained to Irish Rail numerous times since 2007 where that issue started to occur. There are periods when there is a 3-set train but now they have fallen back again.
I was told by there Customer Service team that there is a shortage of commuters trains and their %usage of the carriages is one of the highest in Europe. I was also told that new trains will be in Service (for example the Sligo line) which would free old stock. Now that these new trains are in service what happens.... nothing. Same old story. I cant except the excuse for a shortage of trains any more and I expect a basic service is provided for all trains.

What are you thinking about that issue?
Looking forward to hear from other affected people.

Cheers

Shortage of Commuter trains? Find that hard to believe.You have every right to be angry with Irish Rail.

A lot of these new InterCity trains cannot be used until the new timetable is implemented in May. For example Dublin to Rosslare.

The new timetable should've been introduced in Dec 08 but Irish Rail love to delay and complicate things. It is their fault there is a 'shortage of commuter trains'.

By June this mess better be sorted out once and for all.

thanks for the info sublimity.

I hope this mess will get sorted soon, Its really a pain to complain to Irish Rail about the same issue over an over again, I actually complained so often that my e-mails were answered by the Customer Service Manager for the Northern Line. Thats were I got the info with the shortage and the high utilization rate of carriages in a lengthy e-mail in October last year.

So where are these "extra" carriages are they standing idle or are they used in other trains? The thing is sometimes there is a 3-set train on the 6.30 am Rosslare line for 1 or 2 days then its gone (Some weeks ago it was nearly every day of the week when we got 3-train set, only recently it has turned i a complete bummer again). I guess some stock breaks down and is in repair, but then there definitely is a need to get more carriages if thats the point.

I wish more people would complain about it (they do on the train for sure but then don't seem follow up with e-mail, customer service hotline etc, might work ;) )

guys, just got an update from high up on my most recent complaint to Irish Rail (I do appreciate that my e-mails are taken seriously)

There is a repair for some set of carriages at the Maintenance
Department in Drogheda in place which cannot be replaced until the beginning of march. I was told the the situation should improve then. Irish Rail confirmed that normally there should be a 6 train set in operation on that line and they apologize for the inconvenience caused.

Fingers crossed :)

Great. Fairplay for your perseverance.

There was been long standing shortage of railcars, we are quoted in the Sunday Business Post a while back on the topic

The 6:30 service is booked for a 6 coach 2800 railcar and is currently running as a 4 coach train (it can't possibly be 3 coaches)

There is an overhaul project of the 2600 fleet currently underway which is impacting on train lengths. The 2600 fleet are the most unreliable fleet and have inflicted much pain on commuters in recent years with frequent breakdowns so the work is required.

I've been given the tour of the depot in Drogheda as have senior engineers from numerous rather envious railways across Europe. They currently hold the unoffical most reliable fleet of diesel commuter trains in Europe title, can't fault their efforts. Irish Rail simply never order enough coaches for the demand, always seems to be out by just that small amount to result in these kind of unacceptable situations.

A further 51 coaches are on order and tenders out to overhaul 48 intercity coaches of which 32 are to provide a hourly service Dublin Belfast, however with Midelton and the Western Railway Corridor opening this Summer things are not going to get anyway better

These 51 coaches are the 22ks right?

yeah thats correct, when I said 3 train set I meant 3 set's with 2 coaches each = 6 coaches.
I meant to highlight that they are running the train thats supposed to run but not always.

after 3 weeks of normal service we were back again to the 4 car set this morning...
No announcement on the train why and no apology for the reduced service (at least not in between Rush/Lusk - Connolly when I was on the train)

back to the "we have an issue, but we don`t tell you - deal with it" mentality

what a ignorant service

short again today. I am pretty much :mad:. steam coming out of my ears.....

Is there anything else one can do against this misery other than writing endless e-mail complaints to the Customer Service Manager for the Northern and Eastern department?

Your six coach train worked the 0746 Maynooth-Connolly this morning. This service is booked for four coaches :mad:

Who is in charge putting these trains together? Whats the criteria?

Obviously Irish Rail seems to think a 4 car set is enough for commuters from Drogheda into town in the mornings. Or they just don't care (only after you complained long enough).

There is a 8 car set leaving Connolly at around 7.30am towards Maynooth. Its nearly empty all the time. Sure it will get more crowded later but I doubt there is that many people leaving town (in case I am wrong, please let me know). If IR is short of carriages they should at least try to make a fair use of them instead of pulling the joke on certain services all the time.

I have to agree with you. I boarded the train at Connolly for Gorey(07.26) and that train was just crazy with the amount of people. I had to wait to Pearse Station which was ok but people coming from Drogheda and stations in between they must feel this everyday. The 13.05 Connolly Rosslare service is a 4 car 29000 set which then operates 17.40 Rosslare Drogheda maybe this train will be the 06.30 Drogheda Rosslare the next morning. Personally I so much prefer the 29000 sets for the Rosslare/Gorey line the 2800's are uncomfortable the 29's have much better seating and engine performance than the 28's mixed in with 2600's.

:)

The 7.30 service towards Maynooth you refer to returns inwards as the 8:15am Maynooth Pearse (originally that set would run from Longford in the morning). a very busy service inwards.

Unlike Drogheda, there is no depot for Maynooth trains to sit overnight so they have to run outbound from connolly to run inbound. Don't know if you remember the whole hullabaloo over empty trains out this way and the lack of options for Maynooth University students.

Don't forget you have so many drogheda trains heading out to Bray and even onwards... how many extra services would you get if they terminated in connolly and ran back?

For the record I was on the 7:46 ex Maynooth this morning and it was packed to the rafters!

Hi roamling, we know who's in charge, but the mysteries in the planning are unknown to us, certainly no one is accountable for the service, we know that.

To my knowledge the person in charge is:

Myles McHugh
Service Planning Manager Mainline & Commuter
Heuston Station

Exactly. Why do we have drogheda trains going out to Bray? That's the whole point of the DART, you change at Connolly to get the DART to Bray. Its ridiculous.

For the future all commuter trains from Dundalk, Drogheda and Maynooth should terminate in Connolly or Pearse. Then we might have some extra services to these destinations.

Now if we just had his email... actually it's probably myles.mchugh@irishrail.ie or something like that.

The reasoning behind this is that they need to have somewhere for the trains to go when they arrive into Pearse in the morning. The sidings and GCD platform 1 can hold three trains maximum. And getting them over there causes a blockage on the northbound DART.

Thanks for clarifying that.

-----

Overall it seems to me that there is an increasing demand for trains but the IR network and fleet is not able to handle that demand in a sufficient way. Fair enough if there are 8-car sets running and they are still packed then we can talk about increasing the frequency. At the end of the day more customers for IR can only be a good thing, as long as these customers are satisfied with the service...

My point is that there is no justification just to send out a 4-car train on a busy service in the morning and cause all this tension. Just 2 extra cars will do the job! (by the way the train was 6-cars this morning, it just to unpredictable what will happen next week).

Well then most should terminate at Connolly then. These commuter trains going all the way out to Bray has to stop.

The only commuter trains going to Bray should be the ones going to Gorey.
This situation must be rectified in the new timetable.

The problem is not the size of Intercity cars its the commuter service is running within the intercity part!

This applied for both the morning service from Drogheda and the afternoon service to Maynooth.

The key concept of intercity services is meant to be comfort you are meant to have a seat as it is a long distance journey. If the Rosslare service starts from Drogheda and arrives at connolly packed to the rafters then the intercity traveller has to stand for a period.

The new intercity railcars are designed for passenger comfort ie more seats its not designed for packed commuter services so the process of seperation between drogheda/maynooth from rosslare services is being planned and when this happens rosslare services should start from connolly! The intercity railcars are not suited to sardines-in-a-tin like services.

On a aside I think too many drogheda/dundalk services terminate in bray if one of the earlier services terminated in connolly, ran back to skerries or balbriggan to alleviate the pax boarding there it might help the overcrowding situation and might get an extra service over the loopline, maybe a DART!

Lord knows when this will happen with the Govt finances in the merde but as far back as the 2001 timetable (completed by 2006!), Irish Rail were planning on resignalling the city centre to accomodate more trains and allow Drogheda and Maynooth trains to turn back at Grand Canal Dock.

They cannot do this currently and to stop them blocking the DART, services run out to Bray. Changing trains at Connolly would make sense if the DART actually ran at 5-7 min frequencies during the peak hours but given the hit or miss nature of that timetable, it might actually result in a worse service all round.

They probably would be able to run at 5-7 min frequencies if the commuter trains from drogheda/maynooth terminated at Connolly!!!

Theres only so much you can park in Connolly! Furthermore having commuters from maynooth/drogheda to move onto DARTs is not enough sure DARTs coming from Howth/malahide are every 5 minutes at stages during the morning and come in stuffed to the gills! These DARTs tend to only clear out at pearse!

Oh come on! don't give that excuse. The DART is an 8 coach at peak times.

There's also Grand Canal dock for the termination of the commuter trains so you have 3 stations for them to terminate; Connolly, Pearse and Grand Canal.

so we would have two options here:

1. Irish Rail gets more carriages to accommodate their current schedule without running out off stock when there is a car failure/repair

2. Irish Rail gets his commuter/dart network up to date to increase the frequency of travel to smooth out issues of overcrowding on services

well, in both cases there is an investment necessary but option 1 seems to me the best option in the short term. Of course long term both options are desired ;)

Grand Canal Dock is not a terminus the tracks currently are not setup for it and if trains were to terminate in pearse they would have to switch/cross tracks to get to the resting point holding up northbound/citybound trains from gorey/rosslare in the process.

You might not notice but the 07:22 Maynooth and connolly and a morning service from dundalk both 4 piece trains get in at the same time and everyone goes for the next DART which is always stuffed and people are left behind to wait on the next DART. sure its mentioned here http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=73

The DARTs maybe longer but they're not making much difference!

Well given that Irish rail are proceeding to electrify the Maynooth line, northern line, hazelhatch line it is pointless ordering diesel stock given their long term plans

Odds are about 1 in 3 for a 4 coach train, there are 3 Rosslare sets which rotate in turn on the 6:30 (4 coach was on the morning Rosslare Dublin today)

There is a shortage of commuter trains a fact we have clearly identified and where able to prove Irish Rail's little story to be misleading

A curious problem arises, up in Drogheda they could have a 4 car 29k set and a 4 car 28k set available i.e. enough to make up a 6 car set, but due to laziness no one in Irish Rail has bothered to complete the paperwork to allow a 28k to couple to a 29k type train (They have done the 26/27 and 26/28 paperwork though)

Sadly its not possible for safety reasons to send a 8 coach train south of Greystones

so technically it would be possible to couple these sets? (sorry for asking, but I don't have the background knowledge on that issue :o). So whats all the paperwork about? If its only filling out forms and approving procedures than laziness is the word of the day :)

Paperwork is just a checklist drawn up by the engineers, couple train up test the doors, brakes and other safety systems work and then make a few trips back and forwards between Dundalk and Drogheda late morning early afternoon under the supervision of a senior member of staff

It would go some way to easing matters, only downside is part of the train won't be seeing the catering trolley

Well they won't be ordering anymore with the future electrification of maynooth/drogheda.

I say bring back the Mk3 push/pulls onto the Drogheda line to make up for the shortage of commuter trains.