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-   -   [13-14/07/2010] Enterprise services (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=12568)

ThomasJ 13-07-2010 08:35
[13-14/07/2010] Enterprise services
 
irish rail are saying that enterprise services are running between portadown and dublin only

Bus transfers are operating from newry for belfast passengers

What is deeply worrying is the bbc are saying in the height of the parade trouble yesterday, there was an attempt to hijack and set fire to an enterprise train in lurgan yesterday and the driver had just managed to pull off.

They are saying translink are not taking that risk at the moment and rightly so!http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/northern_...d/10609926.stm

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 08:46
The video post incident looks extremely dodgy

http://www.u.tv/News/Trouble-flares-...e-eb091bf4d146

karlr42 13-07-2010 10:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 57180)
The video post incident looks extremely dodgy

http://www.u.tv/News/Trouble-flares-...e-eb091bf4d146
Certainly does!

Colm Moore 13-07-2010 10:56
Theres a candidate for a bridge.

ThomasJ 13-07-2010 11:41
from translink http://www.translink.co.uk/latesttra...p#story_184114

Quote:
Enterprise - Dublin Line Closure 13-Jul-2010 6:53
Due to earlier civil unrest in the Lurgan area the rail line from Belfast to Dublin is closed between Lisburn and Portadown.

As a result passengers will be bused between Belfast Central and Newry...the Enterprise service will still operate between Portadown and Dublin however some delays may be experienced.

For further information please call the Translink Contact Centre on 02890 66 66 30.

Colm Moore 13-07-2010 13:54
Some delays to Enterprise and Northern line commuter services.

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/travel_alerts.asp?action=view&news_id=847
Quote:
Security alert - Belfast line by Corporate Communications

UPDATE 13th July 2010 - 06.30hrs

Due to an ongoing security alert, Belfast Enterprise services are currently operating as follows:

Trains will operate between Dublin and Portadown only.

Customers travelling to/from Belfast can avail of a bus transfer between Newry and Belfast.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

ThomasJ 13-07-2010 14:05
did anyone listen to liveline? Apparently peoples luggage was stolen and burnt according to boards.ie and barry kenny was on liveline

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 14:12
I see a massive lawsuit here...

It wasn't a terrorist incident so CIV and EC/1371/2007 applies and certain requirements must be satisfied

Someone opened a door and I don't think the scumbags know the emergency door release. Even if a gun was present, from track side you are extremely secure position onboard. The scumbags tried to knock in the windscreen but it held

No sign of any police or army, and the train was stationary for quite a while thats not good enough. That said management of Irish Rail and Translink need a risk assessment, Lurgan was going to be a problem

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 15:05
Quote:
1. The carrier shall be liable for loss or damage resulting from the total or partial loss of, or damage to, registered luggage between the time of taking over by the carrier and the time of delivery as well as from delay in delivery.
2. The carrier shall be relieved of this liability to the extent that the loss, damage or delay in delivery was caused by a fault of the passenger, by an order given by the passenger other than as a result of the fault of the carrier, by an inherent defect in the registered luggage or by circumstances which the carrier could not avoid and the consequences of which he was unable to prevent.
3. The carrier shall be relieved of this liability to the extent that the loss or damage arises from the special risks inherent in one or more of the following circumstances:
(a) the absence or inadequacy of packing; (b) the special nature of the luggage; (c) the consignment as luggage of articles not acceptable for carriage.
Good old CIV, Extract from Uniform Rules concerning the contract for international carriage of passengers and luggage by rail (CIV)

zag 13-07-2010 15:17
From that wording ("registered luggage") it looks like people won't be covered unless they checked in luggage - if that's still possible these days.

z

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 15:19
Ah but registered is luggage stored by the railway company, not stuff you carry yourself

Under the law the fact you had no ticket for it doesn't release the railway company. Legally if the luggage was in the care of the company it is deemed registered

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 15:32
Listened to it and its not clear

1. How the scumbags accessed the train is unclear, it was through the offside cab door, which should have been locked

2. After gaining entry the secure luggage area in the control car was emptied. The door between the luggage and first class area is a security door as previously it was used to carry mail

3. The passenger area remained secure. From the video I have a single window in the first class coach/control car was damaged but intact. The secondman side windscreen on the control car had damage from several rocks thrown at it

4. Usual incompetent delivery of information in Connolly, staff standing around not knowing what was going on and a information display saying the train was on time.

5. How the train was brought to a halt in the first place is question the line is in a curve at the point in question so the driver wouldn't have a clear line of sight and certainly wouldn't be able to stop

karlr42 13-07-2010 15:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 57212)
Listened to it and its not clear

1. How the scumbags accessed the train is unclear, it was through the offside cab door, which should have been locked

2. After gaining entry the secure luggage area in the control car was emptied. The door between the luggage and first class area is a security door as previously it was used to carry mail

3. The passenger area remained secure. From the video I have a single window in the first class coach/control car was damaged but intact. The secondman side windscreen on the control car had damage from several rocks thrown at it

4. Usual incompetent delivery of information in Connolly, staff standing around not knowing what was going on and a information display saying the train was on time.

5. How the train was brought to a halt in the first place is question the line is in a curve at the point in question so the driver wouldn't have a clear line of sight and certainly wouldn't be able to stop
The RTE report doesn't shed very much more light on it:
Quote:
The driver stopped the train and the group then set his cab on fire.

The driver locked the doors on the train so the attackers were not able to get onboard. However, they did steal several pieces of luggage.
As regards the offside door, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was unlocked- I often see trains coming out of Pearse with the cab doors for cabs sandwiched in a formation wide open from the driver having changed ends, and the interior cab doors don't seem to be locked either in my experience.

Kilocharlie 13-07-2010 15:49
Perhaps they interfered with the barriers and, if thebarriers failed to close properly, that would have given the driver a caution aspect at the distant signal ?

Was the driver not in that DVT cab where they gained entry?

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 16:01
The passenger doors on the train are locked and can be only be unlocked when stationary using a guards key from a coach end control panel or by the driver from the locomotive or control car. They can be opened from outside if you know how

Entry was via the offside control car cab door, where the driver was.

Had it been a signaling stop, the train would have stopped 200m from the crossing.

Colm Moore 13-07-2010 17:33
16:43 - Portadown-Dublin Connolly running 23 minutes late at Balbriggan

http://irishrail.ie/your_journey/results.asp
Quote:
16:43 - Portadown to Dublin Connolly (A131) 18:15 18:48 20 Mins Departed Balbriggan

chris 13-07-2010 17:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 57212)

5. How the train was brought to a halt in the first place is question the line is in a curve at the point in question so the driver wouldn't have a clear line of sight and certainly wouldn't be able to stop
First of all: Christ - is it any wonder I left.

Mark, I understand from the pictures the train was travelling southbound. Is it possible the signal just north of Lurgan stopped the train? It slows every local train to a stop while the barriers come down on the Antrim Road and Lake Street. I've never been sure if it affects the Enterprise in the same way, since I'm never on the Enterprise the whole way from Belfast.

It does seem the barriers were closed correctly.

ThomasJ 13-07-2010 18:47
how many passengers were on this train mark?

Also with regards to the cross-border commitee can this issue be raised given there is constant disruption in lurgan before yesterdays incident

Whats the next move for passengers on that train?

chris 13-07-2010 18:53
http://www.u.tv/News/Trouble-flares-...e-eb091bf4d146

55 passengers

Mark Gleeson 13-07-2010 19:12
RTE quoted 110 on board

If luggage was stolen/damaged a passenger should apply in writing to Translink or Irish Rail under the CIV rules providing evidence that they were onboard and a statement of the loss incurred

http://www.otif.org/pdf_external/e/RU-CIV-1999-e.PDF

The only exclusion I can find in the rules applies to nuclear incidents

chris 13-07-2010 20:10
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0713/nor...87053,null,230

Six One said 110

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_...d/10617267.stm

BBC went with 55

Based on the very low number of people on the 11:00 ex Dublin yesterday, I'd say 55 could be the correct figure. Of course, if they can't even get that straight, then how are they going to start compensation..

ColmmacO 14-07-2010 09:26
Was it the locomotive that the people got into? Or the other thing at the front.
I've often seen doors open on loco's leaving connolly.

According to this mornings metro there was people standing on the track which was why the train stopped. Apparently it was a group of scouts who had there luggage taken on the train.
Personally, bar the usual lack of info and customer service, I would be fairly slow to attach blame to the rail companies for this one. It sounds like a fairly crazy occurance, not something you would expect to happen.:eek:

Mark Gleeson 14-07-2010 11:35
Well the cab door should have been locked...

Barry Kenny's performance on Liveline was a disgrace as he refused to provide information as to how to deal with the luggage issue.

Its not 'unforeseen', its not the first time someone got access to the cab of an enterprise service and caused trouble.

Not like Irish Rail isn't used to gangs of youths need I mention Broombridge?

ThomasJ 14-07-2010 12:35
BBC Newsline did a piece on this yesterday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/n...nd/8817357.stm

ThomasJ 14-07-2010 12:45
irish times

Quote:
Iarnród Éireann has praised the reaction of staff during an attack by masked rioters on a Belfast to Dublin train on Monday evening. Up to 60 people forced the Enterprise train to come to a stop near Lake Street, Lurgan, Co Armagh, at about 5pm. Petrol bombs were thrown in an attempt to set fire to the driver’s area. However, staff were able to lock off the main passenger area from the rioters, Iarnród Éireann said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...274659316.html

Mark Gleeson 14-07-2010 12:50
Doesn't the rule book require that all doors be locked at all times?

Quote:
staff were able to lock off the main passenger area from the rioters, Iarnród Éireann said.

ThomasJ 14-07-2010 12:59
ahh i see what you mean, sorry i misread it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson
The passenger doors on the train are locked and can be only be unlocked when stationary using a guards key
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Times/Irish Rail
However, staff were able to lock off the main passenger area from the rioters, Iarnród Éireann said.
:confused:

hopefully lessons are learned from this experience.

ThomasJ 16-07-2010 22:51
Quote:
By Kevin Doyle and Claire Murphy
Friday July 16 2010
THUGS who hijacked a Dublin - bound train
doused passengers ' bags in petrol in an
attempt to commit "mass murder".
A community worker was hailed a hero today
after confronting rioters who attacked the Irish
Rail train in Lurgan on July 12.
The full horror of the incident only emerged
today as Iarnrod Eireann confirmed to the
Herald that some pieces of luggage were
soaked in an attempt to burn up to 60 people
alive .
Footage showing bags being thrown off the
train initially led investigators to believe they
were being stolen.
However, it has now emerged that a
community worker risked his life to remove the
petrol - soaked bags, most of which belonged to
boy scouts.
"Some were doused and some were burned , "
explained an Irish Rail spokesperson .
"They were trying to set the driver ' s cab on fire
and they also poured petrol on to some of the
heavy bags and luggage."
Steven Moutrey DUP said ; "But for the work of
a community worker on Monday there could
have been mass murder. "
Today, a hero community worker told how he
confronted the vicious mob and tried to alert
those on board the train to the danger. The
man , identified only as John , told UTV how he
confronted a masked man as rioters were
intent on killing all 55 passengers .
"I told him that there were women and children
on the train, he said ' f them, let them burn' , "
he recalled . Having confronted the masked
man , who had a five galloon drum in his hand ,
John got into the driver' s carriage.
"I move from there through the carriage and
started to shout at the people because
somebody shouted to me that they were going
to set the train on fire . They just couldn ' t
comprehend what was going on."
Irish Rail said that an investigation is ongoing
but the spokesperson was unaware of the
community worker ' s heroic actions .
hnews@ herald.ie
- Kevin Doyle and Claire Murphy
from todays herald. very worrying ! :-(

on the move 17-07-2010 00:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson
Listened to it and its not clear
The Dublin-Belfast train has been hijacked before, but this has to be one of the lowest depths of rail history in Ireland.

I don't care what side of the religious fence people sit on, or how they feel about parades in Northern Ireland. I'm not interested in history lessons or how oppressed they feel, there are not enough words to describe how appalling the incident this week is.

The Enterprise service is one of the rail network's best services. The trains are clean, the carriages are comfortable, the service is one of the most reliable in the network. But this is currently a bad time for rail transport in Ireland. Last year, a major viaduct collapsed and suspended services for 3 months, leading to colossal loss of revenues, we're just about to have a line closed, fares are climbing, while competing modes of transport in Ireland are getting faster and cheaper.

No "cause" political or otherwise, would have been advanced or resisted had even more damage occurred this week. Mass murder was miraculously averted, but the individuals responsible should have the full weight of the law thrown at them. There is no room in civilised society for those who indiscriminately terrorise 60 innocent rail passengers for no reason. If they get away with their actions, it's only a matter of time before it happens again on trains or even north-south bus services.

The incident this week had nothing to do with parades, it had nothing to do with politics, it had nothing to do with terrorism. It was vandalism for vandalism's sake. Pure and simple. The only solution is to deploy police forces from both sides of the border on the service around this date in the future, to calm the concerns of passengers. Gardai on the Irish side of the border and the PSNI on the other side. The financial impact is immaterial. Every precaution has to be taken to prevent what happened this week ever happening again.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

ThomasJ 17-07-2010 04:48
so we may have an idea of why luggage left the train :eek:
http://www.u.tv/News/Rioters-tried-t...1-bcfea086550e


Quote:
Rioters "tried to firebomb" Lurgan train
Rioters who attacked a train in Lurgan on July 12 were only prevented from firebombing it by a community worker trying to save passengers, it has emerged.

Thursday, 15 July 2010
TAGS: LOCAL NEWS
Footage showed the man throwing luggage from the train - they were actually soaked in petrol and, minutes later, he confronted a man with a five gallon drum of diesel in his hands.

The man - who did not want to be identified - told UTV a rioter wanted to let those on board the train burn.

"I told him there were women and children on the train," he said.

Article Continues
"He (the rioter) said 'Let them burn' - this person was intent on killing everybody on the train with no regard for their lives."

There were 55 passengers of all ages on the Dublin-bound Enterprise train when it was surrounded by a mob who blocked its path, on the line close to the Kilwilkie estate - a dissident republican stronghold.

The community worker described seeing one woman who "just looked terrified".

The passengers, staff and the driver had locked themselves in a carriage. They were so terrified the rioters would board the train, the community worker had to persuade them he was on their side before he could gain access to where they were.

Speaking about those responsible, the man said: "They were quite willing to kill anybody on board. No regard for human life whatsoever.

"There were people who were completely innocent. There were women and children. People had no regard for life whatsoever."

He managed to convince the driver to move the train and stayed with him until it reached Portadown.

Sinn Fein representative for the area John O'Dowd said there was no doubt dissident republicans were behind it.

"Some of the known faces in the area were there.

"I think that people were dragged into situations once the trouble flared who may not have sympathies with the dissidents."

The DUP's Stephen Moutray added: "But for the work of a community worker, there could have been mass murder on the railway line and not for the first time."

© UTV News
backing this up a comment on the bbc news website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern+ireland-10627977

Quote:
My two adult daughters and I were passengers on board the 1610 train from Belfast to Dublin on Monday. Just south of Belfast, the train was stopped by people blocking the tracks. We didn't know this initially, but started to wonder what was happening as we saw a small crowd of people gathering on either side of the tracks and looking toward the front of the train. Two men passed through our car with grease-stained hands and arms (and some said with blood on their hands, but I didn't see that). One was talking on a phone, saying that the train had been hijacked. By this time, the train had begun moving again. As we passed the crossing where people were gathered, we saw young men wearing masks over their faces. What we did not see at any time was any sign of a police presence. Shortly after the train resumed moving, a conductor passed through our car and told me that protesters had thrown bricks and petrol bombs at the engine, that the two men that passed through our car were members of the community who had jumped into the fray to disarm the situation, that the train was under the control of the railway, and that we were safe. At the next station, when we left the train, we passed the engine. Half of the front windshield was shattered in several places, one side window was also shattered, the window of the door to enter the engine was completely broken out, there were signs of fire inside the cab, and scorching on the front of the engine.

James Grant, Belfast
100% agreement with on the move great post, by the sounds of things, what we have heard today sounds genuine based on what irish rail have said and a major "mass murder" event has been averted

dowlingm 17-07-2010 16:45
I think that IE and NIR should consider suspending the Enterprise as a through service. Every time these thugs disrupt the service it must cost a mint of money and disruption to the timetable.

ThomasJ 18-07-2010 15:13
Given the stories that have come out over the past few days, how urgent is a risk analysis on lurgan required?

There are too many "security alerts" in this area. A major incident was,narrowly averted, do we hope tht this doesnt happen again or take action?

Theres a possability this could affect passenger numbers on the enterprise.

on the move 18-07-2010 15:24
You take action to prevent it happening again. "Hoping" that it doesn't happen again is not an option. FFS, even Al Qaida don't pull a stunt like what happened on that train last week, and a fortune is spent around the world to try to deter them.

ThomasJ 18-07-2010 16:05
Agreed, that is my point (although badly put) we cannot wait for a major disaster to take place to try to resolve it, too many lessons have been learnt this way.

As a rail passenger i decided not to take a rail trip up north because of this

Colm Moore 18-07-2010 19:19
It seems the trouble was at Lake Street (not to be confused with Lough Road) which is hte first level crossing north east of Lurgan station: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=t2b...62&lvl=1&sty=o

Mark Gleeson 20-07-2010 11:18
Some good news finally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Times
Man held over attempted train hijack

Police in Northern Ireland have arrested a 23-year-old man in connection with an attempted hijacking of a train in Lurgan, Co Armagh.

A group of up to 60 masked rioters forced the Belfast-Dublin Enterprise train to come to a stop near Lake Street, Lurgan at 4.30pm on July 12th.

Petrol bombs were thrown in an attempt to set fire to the driver’s area. However, staff were able to lock off the main passenger area from the rioters and the driver managed to regain control and continue the journey.

The man was arrested in the Drumnamoe Avenue area at 4.40am. Police also carried out a number of searches across Lurgan this morning. A number of items were seized by the PSNI for further examination.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking29.html

Mark Gleeson 25-07-2010 12:31
1 Attachment(s)
Further news is Irish Rail has had a change of heart and will now compensate the passengers who had luggage in the luggage van.

Its in todays Sunday Times, page 5.

Mark Gleeson 05-08-2010 10:59
The UK rail accident investigation branch will not be investigating the matter.

on the move 19-06-2011 07:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ
Agreed, that is my point (although badly put) we cannot wait for a major disaster to take place to try to resolve it, too many lessons have been learnt this way.

As a rail passenger i decided not to take a rail trip up north because of this
Almost 12 months on, have Irish Rail and/or NI Railways put firm plans in place to guarantee the safety of rail passengers travelling on the service in early-mid-July 2011?

Mass murder was narrowly averted last summer. Next time, passengers might not be so lucky, if extra security procedures are not put in place to prevent a repeat of what did happen. At such a sensitive time, the fate of passengers cannot and should not be left to chance.


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