However the dutch still use the strippenkard in all cities dont they? Outdated but very flexible.

Yes they do and its a very good system, but you can't use it on the trains nor train tickets on the bus.

ccos, we are really considering the suburban area when we talk of this add on. We are considering say Kildare or somewhere as the extremity for example. Intercity would be different and you would have the add on as an option.

Take for example Kildare and Drogheda. These might both be in zone 6 for example. But in order for the Kildare passenger to get to the city centre they have to pay this "add on" fee whereas the Drogheda passenger wouldnt. So if the destination was "zone 1" as opposed to "Connolly" then it would be fairer.

Strippenkaart is on it's way out.. to be replaced by smartcards... god help us.

ccos, it's true that the InterCity and individual cities metro/bus/boat/tram (a single ticket does you for all modes!) systems are different, and you can't use the strippenkaart, but you can buy monthly/yearly InterCity tickets which include 'local transport' in the cities you are travelling between.

I've never really found it a problem tho, mainly because I don't commute on the InterCity network.

I'm not looking forward to it either.

Its not just intercity its all rail services, I travel between Haarlem, Amsterdam an Schipol a lot by rail (stoptrains, sneltrains and IC's) and on arrival I must buy another ticket to continue my journey by bus etc. This seems to be true in most other countrys I've lived, worked or visited. The fact that you can get a LUAS or 90bus add on to your train ticket is someting thats not so widespread anywhere else.
The biggest problem with tickets in Ireland is DB and their ridiculous stage system but I thought P11 was a railusers lobby group.

http://www.rpa.ie/its

"RPA has been given the responsibility to implemen an integrated ticketing system between the different providers of public transport. This section will provide details of our progress towards achieving a National Integrated Ticketing System."

Awaiting details... :rolleyes:

I used to use the strippenkaart quite regularly in Rotterdam and when I would travel around the rest of the nederlands I could use the same ticket. What I was trying to use the Dutch example for was the fact that there is an all-Netherlands zonal system.

I don't understand why a simple system like the strippenkart isn't in place already for the Bus & LUAS whats going to happen when the metro arrives a new ticket system??? I remember using a similar system in Copenhagen years ago except it was "knips" instead of strips.

It'll be the same system as Luas aka the RPA system. Some zones etc.

It is a olde-timey throwback alright and goes back even further than CIE. The GSR was pulling the same stunt with the DUTC trams at Hueston back when Queen Victoria was still in her child bearing years, and even when both companies merged to form CIE the practice contiuned. One of the reasons CIE was formed was to do away with this stuff and they only made it worse.

CIE is still filled with loads of old victorian leftover culture like this. This is the reason why I'll always maintain that CIE/IE cannot be reformed ever. There is too much entrenced cultural baggage from the past.

The "CIE" in the CIE never stood for "Change, Innovation and Efficency".

Note the emphasis is still on "integrated ticketing" not "integrated fares" or a common zone system.

There's no need for a choice. The standard rail fare should include additional transfer to the "city centre" because Heuston is remote. It was remote over 150 years ago and its still remote.

Thats not a like with like comparison to the point Im making in relation to Heuston. Heuston (in terms of rail termini) is in a poor location for city centre penetration. The onward connection is unavoidable and once again should be automatically included in standard rail fares. Obviously, if you wish to travel beyond the city centre area additional fares apply for whatever form of public transport you wish to use.

Heuston is Dublin right? Its the main inter city terminus for the city. Its also a growing commuter terminus for the city. Shouldn't people expect that a standard rail ticket actually entitles them to a journey that delivers them to the city. In my opinion, the operation of "add-ons" is unecessary and a very basic anomally that borders on rip-off.

Heuston is in an infamously remote location and I don't accept that passengers should be expected to pay anymore in order to reach the central business and shopping districts of the city. CIE had the chance to negate this issue, but they chose to use it as a method of generating more income.

Finally. Please keep thread on topic. The core issue here is not integrated ticketing. Its a fares issue.

Derek,
I agree that Heuston is in the back of beyond for most people and commuters especially. But I'd like you to at least consider that transfers would be an improvement in service that costs money, unlike a free improvement in service that requires an attitude change.

Who do you think should fund the cost of the transfer to the city centre?
Should there be a reduction for people who don't want to go to the city centre?

How should the transfer to the city centre be done ( i.e. tram, dublin bus, some other bus)?

Where is the city centre? Where would you like people to be transferred to free of charge with their train ticket? Henry st is the prime shopping location, around St Stephen's Green is the prime business location. Where do you see the transfer to?

You haven't walked from the Gare to the City Centre in Luxembourg then? You should try Brugge or Leige in Belguim out as well.

Essentially then a trip from say Cork to Heuston should be a trip from Cork to the Dublin Central zone (ie the fares zone) and that your ticket should entitle you to continuing your trip within the central zone?

It would only require CIE companies to jump on the zonal bandwagon then..

And that bin company that runs the tram service too...

I was talking to a friend last night about the whole heuston transfer thing and the lack of integrated ticketing and zones etc

as i understand it IE get less subvention than other european operators ~10% as compared to up to 50% for others

this means that IE are much more sensitive to any fluctuation in income such as would follow in the aftermath of either not charging for heuston-city centre transfer or implementing a proper zonal integrating ticket thingy. this isn't necessarily a permanent drop and also IE would make savings from having more people using prepaid tickets cos that's more efficient than cash

so as with everthing in this country maybe the pressure needs to focus on the Dept of Finance to give IE the leeway neccessary to still be able to function with the reduced income. DoF is legendry though for its rectal fistitude - AHEM I mean fiscal rectitude, of course :eek:

For over 40 years Colm (1945 - 1987) CIE had total and absolute control of both bus and rail in Dublin. It could have and should have been done then. It was the one set of accounts. We've had loads of time for an attitude change. But you must remember that CIE didn't run the network on that basis. They actually followed the models of two completely seperate entities...GSR and the DUTC. After failing for 40 years, the Government divided the group into four parts and that has compounded the problem and returned us to a competing scenario that still offers little benefit to the customer. The proposed break up of CIE met with the usual fits of rage and regardless of that, it would be meaningless, with a DTA and integrated ticketing on a national level.

Just because its similar in those locations, that doesn't make it right. While P11 has always promoted "best international practise", personally, I don't swear by the ethos that, "If its done that way in this European country, it must be okay."

Unless we know public opinion in your quoted locations, they're irrelevent and still open to question, in an Irish context.

Comparisons are useful, but not particularly helpful to a specific issue in a specific area.

I think we may agree to differ on the Heuston question.

I can see an argument for both sides on this one.

If I travel to the UK and want to get a train to central London, the default ticket only takes me to one of the London IC stations (there are quite a few). However, it generally only costs a pound or two to get a travelcard added on, which gives access to London commuter trains, Tubes, Busses, Trams and the DLR.

I would be quite happy to see a similar arrangement, where an Intercity takes you to the terminating station of the route (let's not forget, Connolly is not exactly city centre either), but for a nominal amount extra you get access to DART, Luas and busses. This would be particularly relevant once the Interconnector is in place.

This really boils down to the old issue that we need a common zone and fare system, though.