Rail Users Ireland Forum - Autumn leaves and wheelslip

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- - Autumn leaves and wheelslip (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=10919)

Also I am getting a but sick of looking at the same poster for the last six years. Apparantly they have been working to improve track adhesion for all that time. Perhaps it is time they tried a different approach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Howard (Post 59592)

The 1805 Connolly to Longford has been almost half an hour late yesterday and today. Got quite badly stuck leaving mullingar which has always been a bad spot. You would think there should be some way of sorting out places where you have an incline after leaving a station or signal.

yep have this problem quiet often when leaving Coolmine

Colm said earlier in the thread

Quote:

Quite a few of the 22000 fleet has some equipment to help deal with leaves.

Ive noticed the odd 22k on the 18:05, have you been on one on the 18:05 and is there less trouble leaving Mullingar on the 22k

A fairly serious incident on the UK railways as a result of wheelslip.
From daily mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aves-line.html

Quote:

A major investigation has been launched after a commuter train slid at speed for more than two miles because of leaves on the line.
The train from Charing Cross sped through one station at 65mph and then over a level crossing before finally coming to a stop.
The terrified driver had immediately contacted signal control to raise the alarm. He told investigators how he put on the brakes when approaching Stonegate station in East Sussex but the train failed to slow.

It had been travelling to Hastings on November 8 when the problem occurred.

The level crossing was fortunately closed to cars and pedestrians at the time and there were no red signals on the route.
Rail bosses are stunned by the incident and thankful no one was hurt.
'The thought of what possibly could have happened at the level crossing is just too horrible to imagine,' one senior source told the Evening Standard.
The Rail Accident Investigation Branch said: 'At around 8.10am, the train encountered poor adhesion conditions as its driver applied the brakes to make a scheduled stop at Stonegate station while travelling at about 65mph.
'The train was unable to stop and came to a stand some 2.45 miles beyond the station.' The RAIB said: 'The investigation will identify the reasons for the train's inability to stop normally. It will also examine the arrangements for the servicing and maintenance of the rail head [surface] sanding equipment on the trains used on the Charing Cross-Hastings line.'
Enlarge

Train operator Southeastern and Network Rail, which is responsible for the tracks, have joined forces and set up their own investigation.
A Network Rail spokesman said: 'The train had green signals and a clear route ahead.'
Every winter, Network Rail spends tens of millions of pounds keeping the tracks clear of leaves.

Rain and wind produce the worst conditions.
The wind blows the leaves on to the tracks where they stick on the wet lines. The first train along then crushes them into a substance similar to black ice on the roads.
Investigators will also look at whether a fault with the train was to blame.
The longest previous train slide caused by leaves on the line happened at Slough station 15 years ago.
A train approaching a dead-end platform at 56mph slid for 1,300 yards - about three-quarters of a mile - on the slippery track.
The front coach smashed into the buffers, mounted the platform, careered across the concourse and demolished the station buffet.
Miraculously only two people, including the train driver Paul Farrell, 29, were injured

Thats pretty crazy, definitely something amiss technically

Has anyone experienced any wheelslip related problems yet?

There's a lot of fallen leaves around my area, and with the strong winds and heavy rain we've been having the last couple of days I thought it might cause problems.

[11-9-2011] 20:45 pearse maynooth

Had that wheelslip experience on this train this evening

the train struggled after leaving stations between ashtown and clonsilla

Train journey certainly fealt more turbulent this evening and with the forecast for the coming days could cause problems

[25-9-2011] bad night wheelslip wise

heading inbound tonight it was really bad slow and quiet bumpy in spots, the rain not helping things

Irish Rail is having trouble with the local authority in Castleknock about the trees, Irish Rail want to fell them, the council are stalling

Plenty of trouble on the 22:12 Pearse Maynooth last night. We were following another train to Glasnevin so crawled along there, then we had significant trouble leaving Ashtown. There were massive problems between Castleknock and Coolmine, we never once managed to get going properly , any time we built up some revs the wheels slipped and we lost it. To top it all off, there was an emergency brake application between Coolmine and Porterstown, due to what sounded like a problem with the vigilance device(some frantic pedal stomping was heard). The train was about 10 minutes late into Clonsilla and seemed to have trouble leaving there too.

Interestingly enough, the particular train involved, 29010, for some reason has had the integral retarder (engine-assisted brake) reactivated after it was disabled a few years back on the 29s. It's been this way for a couple of weeks.

Article in Daily Mail

Rail bosses tackle 'leaves on the line' by running trains early to allow for slower journeys

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1ZuLgUoPt

The retarder was disabled as it only worked on one pair of axles so the brake disks did not get worn equally.

I'm guessing someone has done the math and realized that brake disks cost money

NIR has the retarder enabled on all C3K stock which is basically the same under the floor as the 29k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack O'Neill (Post 64376)

Rail bosses tackle 'leaves on the line' by running trains early to allow for slower journeys

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1ZuLgUoPt

In fairness, their headline of "Rail bosses tackle 'leaves on the line' by running trains early to allow for slower journeys" is misleading. It conveys the impression that trains are leaving before the scheduled time, when in reality they have changed the schedule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 64216)

Irish Rail is having trouble with the local authority in Castleknock about the trees, Irish Rail want to fell them, the council are stalling

Quote:

Question: Councillor M. Murray “To ask the Manager to make a report on the number of trees to be removed in the vicinity of Castleknock Railway Station in Laurel Lodge, also can he state if pruning would suffice in some cases and can the Manager provide a map indicating which trees and what respective action will be taken at each location?”

Reply: A total of approximately 25 trees were removed from the group on the open space at Laurel Lodge adjacent to the Castleknock Train Station.

In early October a request was received from Iarnród Éireann to remove all of the trees in the group due to worries over leaves falling onto the track from trees overhanging the station platform. This request was made under the Railway Act. The Council considered the removal of all of the trees excessive, and proposed to remove only those trees and limbs closest to the station, this was subsequently agreed with Iarnród Éireann on site, and the trees in question were removed by a contractor appointed by the Council. In all cases the removal of trees was only considered as an absolute last resort.

The work is now completed, and it is considered that minimal impact has been caused to the visual amenity of the open space as a result.

And

Quote:

“To ask the Manager to report on the number of trees removed at Clonsilla Railway Station, also can he state if so many needed to be cut down and who carried out the felling?”

Reply: Iarnród Éireann are currently undertaking tree pruning/removal works in the vicinity of Clonsilla Train Station. Any works carried out here were not on land under the control of the Council, and were carried out by contractors working on behalf of Iarnród Éireann.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/mee...s.aspx?id=1201

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJ (Post 59628)

A fairly serious incident on the UK railways as a result of wheelslip.
From daily mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aves-line.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 59631)

Thats pretty crazy, definitely something amiss technically

if there was something amiss with the brakes it would have been takin out of service and hauled to a depot, just goes to prove its not something made up by rail companies to cover over delays to services.. leaves fall+ rain= slip and slide,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJ (Post 63946)

heavy rain actaully cleans the rail head.. worse time for wheelslip, is loads of leaves falling in a calm days just geting getting mashed into the rail head or into a damp rail head, then followed by ( dry spell or without a dry spell) light hazy rain.. then you will hear the wheel slip protection systems kick in.. drivers are told to break earlyer to help avoid slip slide and take power in a lower notch to avoid just spining the wheels but both these can add time on to the journey. problem areas laytown skerries rush and lusk donabate portmarknock, raheny to killiester... lansdowne to sydney, glenageary and shankill.. just cut down the trees!!!!:eek:

For the UK case the investigation report found the train to be unsafe due to a failure to fill the sand boxes despite the train reporting that it had a low sand condition the night before

Can we take it that the sand boxes are kept topped up on Irish Rail rolling stock ?

the sand machine boxes not full is a issue, but hav u ever seen how much sand actaully comes out of them things. not a lot per wheel. .more of a aid to the wsp, wsp that does the real work like abs on ur car, id say the driver broke to late, but more of a case of to hard and the train just took off 65 mph and would say it easly gained speed as it lost traction with the slippy rail head so i can see how it traveled 2.25 miles past the station , LRA is like ice on the road,
Look at the rail heads at the moment there black. unless a heavy rain shower comes or after the sandite machine with the high powered water jet cleans it(if its not broke) then it get the shine back on it,when its black like tha from the leaves been mashed into a paste on them, little bit of light ran and its lethal.

The formal investigation showed it was the lack of sand that was the cause and that the driver drove exactly per the training. Not the driver, machine was at fault.