no ticket machine available

[roamling]

There is on topic that "haunts" me for a while.

For example in Rush and Lusk the only ticket machine is inside the station but the station is not always open. So sometimes I cant buy a ticket (e.g. Sunday afternoon). I usually do when getting off the train, explaining the issue to to the guy at the exit.

What is the position of Irish Rail when you can't buy a ticket before travel commences and and somebody wants to check your ticket on board the train? Common sense would suggest that you would not be liable for not having a ticket or do I have an obligation to have a valid ticket all the time :confused:

[Mark Gleeson]

We have received a written response from Irish Rail on this

You are fully legally permitted to travel without a ticket if you are unable to obtain a ticket. Problem is Irish Rail have adopted issue fine ask questions later approach. The legality of this is to be challenged

There is an obligation on Irish Rail to issue the ticket on train or at destination if a member of staff refuses you a ticket despite boarding at an unstaffed station a world of trouble will occur

[ThomasJ]

The problem I have is the You are fully legally permitted to travel without a ticket if you are unable to obtain a ticket. part

The problem I have here is if you have bought a ticket from a machine at an unmanned station and the train is cancelled you have to go get a bus instead. Because the station is not manned you need other change for your bus seen as though you cannot get a refund there at the unmanned station.

In this case where do you go to get the ticket refunded and will they know the train has been cancelled will they refund it?

[Colm Moore]

Often if trains are cancelled en masse you ticket will be valid on Dublin Bus. If its only one cancellation, that might be another matter.

[Colm Moore]

You are fully legally permitted to travel without a ticket if you are unable to obtain a ticket.Do I have it right that it is the opposite with Luas, i.e. no ticket, not travel, even if the machines aren't there.

[Thomas Ralph]

Yes, there is no provision in the light railway bylaws permitting ticketless travel when you have been unable to purchase a ticket. (Or, more precisely, you can travel wherever you want but you're liable to pay the standard fare of €45.)

I rather doubt that a prosecution for failing to pay a standard fare would hold up in the event that every ticket machine at a stop was broken and you got on a tram to the next stop and bought a ticket there. I understand the Veolia CSOs can radio in to verify if ticket machines are down.

(Aside: They managed to make it illegal to smoke while crossing tram tracks, so they surely could have come up with something about ticket machines being out of service?)

[MOH]

Just to drag this further off topic, suppose I start a journey to, e.g. Sligo from a DART station, allowing enough time to purchase my ticket all the way to Sligo (which according to Irish Rail I should be able to do). If the person in the ticket office is unable/unwilling to issue my ticket all the way, do I have to go and buy one at Connolly (which could well result in me missing my train) or can I board and pay on the train (Sligo train often being beside the DART platforms, so I don't need to pass through the turnstiles)?

Seems to me that I've made every reasonable effort to purchase the correct ticket at the start of my journey, but I can imagine IR having a different view.

[Mark Gleeson]

There is a clause in the book for that case on the grounds that the delay in issuing the ticket would delay the train.

We are increasingly becoming worried at the approach Irish Rail is taking, we certainly want a crackdown on fare evasion but not one which actively seeks out to make the lives of honest people difficult

[Thomas Ralph]

You have to get permission from an authorised person to board the first train in that case though, and you could get in trouble on the DART for not having a ticket there.

And if you do buy a ticket at the first station and another at Connolly, you end up paying more.

We would like to see a system like the UK whereby if you are unable to buy the ticket you want at your starting station you can buy a ticket that covers a part of your journey and part-exchange it for the right ticket on the way.

[Colm Moore]

We would like to see a system like the UK whereby if you are unable to buy the ticket you want at your starting station you can buy a ticket that covers a part of your journey and part-exchange it for the right ticket on the way.
How about a a "please issue this passenger with a ticket to ......... Dated: XX YYY 2009"?

[Thomas Ralph]

That wouldn't accomplish the same aim, which is to get at least some revenue from passengers who would otherwise travel free.

[Colm Moore]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, they would have to pay for it. :)