Night trains

[Cubassist]

Just wondering what P11's position is on having DART and/or northern/western commuter trains leaving Dublin late night on Thur/Fri/Sat evenings. Surely this makes sense. Think of the reduction on pressure on the Nightlink/Rider services this would bring about.

[Derek Wheeler]

Our position is bring it on.

DART did operate a late night service in the run up to last Christmas. However Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines are still stuck in the dark ages even at christmas. IE management will claim theres no demand. But hey, we all know thats balloney.

One small example of our frustrated work with IE is the case of the last train to Kildare. At a recent public meeting with IE management, we suggested an 11pm departure (currently 10.45 ex Heuston) of this train from Pearse station, serving Tara St and Connolly and running via the Phoenix Park Tunnel to Kildare. Response.....We'll look into it. Result....still waiting, as they hope the proposal disappears off the radar. It won't.

While 11pm is hardly late night, it actually gave people more flexibility to catch the train downtown, without the rushed prospect of Luas or the 90 bus.

Cost to the Irish tax payer....nothing.

Hard pressed resuorces within P11 prevent us from doing more on a bigger scale, with this issue, but we always endeavour to try.

[Mark Gleeson]

Just to add to that its trivial to add a midnight DART Connolly Bray simply change the driver to Bray based one

Maynooth really is the big one its needs a post 11pm service. Drogheda has a 11:20

Sadly I don't see IE making any positive moves on this. The reality is mid week its very quiet out there, I'm talking single figures on the 12:30 7N, got to be very careful how to proceed as fares won't come close to paying for it

The biggest success last year was getting IE to charge normal fares on the lare night DART service http://www.platform11.org/successes/#latenight

[Cubassist]

Surely there is a demand for a service on weekends though. I'm fairly sure that people wouldn't mind shelling out €7-15 for a train to Balbriggan/Drogheda/Maynooth etc on a Saturday night where a taxi would cost €50+ and a bus would take up to 2 hours in some cases.

The only potential problem that I could forsee is drivers looking for overtime etc.

[Mark Gleeson]

Weekdays all suburban destinations should have a service post 11pm, so thats Kildare/Drogheda/Maynooth

Anything past midnight is not a goer unless its Friday/Saturday Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann can prove that

On the fares issue, the Luas is normal fares till 12:30 and remember that means monthly/weekly and annual ticket holders don't have to pay

[James Shields]

In Drogheda we only got our 11:20 service last year, and it's been quite popular. While midweek it's fairly lightly loaded, at the weekend there's quite a lot of people using it. It's a great service, and since the train has to get back to the depot at Drogheda, it costs next to nothing to put it on. I think if there was a post-midnight service it would be popular too, and it could probably be done using a train that needs to go to Drogheda as well.

I'm sure if similar services were offered on other lines they would be used too, particularly Thurs-Sat, though obviously it would cost IE to put on such services.

I think the late train from Pearse-Kildare is a fantastic idea. They could probably also do a dawn run, say leaving Kildare 6:15 arriving Pearse 7:30 before the main commuter rush. I guess they're worried it will start people asking questions like "why can't we have this all the time?"

[craigybagel]

Im sorry if most of my postings on this and the boards.ie board are probably overly pessimistic but can anyone see IE actually providing a late night service? It was only in the last 6 years we saw such exotic things as "sunday services" on the suburban lines, and even then not on the Kildare line, and only in the last two years have we had post 11pm suburban trains. With all the extra hassles of prividing staff at that time of night will IE think its worth the hassle? Drivers in particular whats the chances of them agreeing to work trains that time of night, especially the Pearse Kildare one if it involves going through the dreaded tunnel? :(

[James Shields]

I think we are seeing gradual change, but it's a slow process. Some of the stations are a bit out of the way, and dark and lonely places at night, which can be offputting to say the least. I think we should be pushing IE for DART to run to 12:30, and for commuter trains on all three routes around 11:30 in the near future. If those take off, we can push for later trains.

[AZ1]

Why should passengers pay more for taking a train (or DART) at 11:30pm?

[craigybagel]

Last darts already are at 11:30 from the city. And id be happy to pay more to travel after that if it meant a visible security presence both on trains and at stations was provided. And i presume ordinary IE staff get extra pay for such unsociable hours?

[AZ1]

I don't agree you should be happy to pay more to travel off-peak (which is what late evening service is).
24hr supermarkets don't charge more because you choose to shop at 2:00am when they are the very ones delighted to see you shop at that hour.
Phone companies charge you LESS when you call off-peak.
Ditto Airlines.
It can be done, and IS done. Please don't set us up for another rip-off scenario!
I often take trains at 11:30pm, and feel no obligation whatsoever to pay extra. I'm thankful the service is there, and I use it, but have no interest in being ripped-off.

[Mark Gleeson]

Up to 12:30 I can see no justification for charging more (IE thought about it and rolled back last year)

The costs are higher, you need security staff. The DART is a loss maker off peak, I've been on trains at 7:30pm with less than 30 people aboard

The fairest way to play it is to allow weekly/monthly/annual ticket holders to travel at no cost, then lump say €2 on top of the normal fare

The whole thing revolves around how it is managed is it a once off event, ie overtime or a normal rostered turn at which point no payment. There is no shortage of trains moving around early morning its accepted practice

[James Shields]

I have to say, I think night trains and busses should stick to the standard fares. I know in London night busses used to be more expensive, but now they're the same as daytime fares and you can use travelcards. Fantastic.

On the other hand, I think it has to be recognised that the transport companies can't be expected to put on late services and make a loss unless someone is footing the bill. We could really do with a red Ken to sort it out.

[ThomasJ]

Next Friday's Robbie Williams concert at Croke Park will have extra late night trains. Looking at a sign at the ticket check point they will be:

00.05 Portmarnock,malahide then all stations to Drogheda

00.15 All stations to Maynooth EXCEPT Drumcondra

Not to sure what the story is re. Heuston based commuter/intercity

But it would have been an idea to run a service to Kildare through the Phoenix Park tunnell. I don't think they did it last time. From what I remember the platform allocation was:

platform 2: Maynooth

Platform 3: Drogheda

Platform 4: DART to Howth

Platform 5: Dart to either Bray or Greystones

Platform 6&7 remained closed

nevertheless Platform 1 would have been a good spot to run Kildare trains from. Will they be running an extra late night service from Heuston

[Mark Gleeson]

I am aware of a 00:30 Dublin Heuston Cork special train (B216) with a connection at Limerick Junc, call Charleville and Mallow arrives Cork 3:10 am

This is a business driven operation you run trains you know you can fill, thats the problem and its all done on overtime. To be fair to Irish Rail there has been a noticeable increase in special trains in recent years

None of the suburban trains are shown on the system yet

Means I can get a later train home hopefully

[ThomasJ]

Just confirming what was said already apart from the 00.05 operating to Dundalk and not Drogheda as previously stated. No details on extra DART's yet and Maynooth and Drogheda/Dundalk timetable not updated yet

From irishrail.ie

Extra late night service on the Northern and Maynooth lines after Robbie Williams Concert by Corporate Communications


Extra late night services will run on the Northern and Maynooth lines after the Robbie Williams concert on Friday night (9th June) /Saturday morning as follows:

00.05 Connolly to Dundalk (Arrive 01.22)

00.15 Connolly to Maynooth (Arrive 00.50)

[Derek Wheeler]

Until confirmation from IE, its fair to assume that either they don't realise Robbie Williams fans live south and south west of Connolly or negociations with staff havent concluded.

No real reason why DART or Kildare line can't operate for this excuse for a concert. However I continue to be offended by IEs belief that late night trains are only relevent if you are going to see a coked up loser rather than enjoying a few pints in a boozer with some decent conversation.

I propose Robbie Williams for PRO at the AGM.:D

[Red Alert]

They could try the Craven coaches with an 071 loco, then the driver's security risk is nil and it really doesn't matter if someone smashes up the place ;)

I can't believe how you suburban rail users cope without a real night train service - taxis are expensive enough out here to ballinteer! In spite of my support for Irish Rail as a semi-state, like with the freight I really believe if they couldn't be arsed providing a night train:


get new management and fire the incompetent people
let a private crowd like Connex run one

[Mark Gleeson]

IN true last minute style IE posted today the DART details for tonight

From Connolly
00:07 to Howth
00:10 to Bray

All stations normal fares

[James Shields]

Nothing to Kildare, though?

[Mark Gleeson]

Though denied by Irish Rail it is clear they have a vendetta against the good people of Hazelhatch, Sallins, Newbridge and Kildare

[Derek Wheeler]

Looks that way Mark. Have Press release ready for locals. Yet another opportunity to talk park tunnel, Sunday services etc etc etc....yawn.

Just what is their problem.

[Mark Gleeson]

I'm getting the 00:15 home tonight very convenient after having a few beers

All the buses going past are jammed solid, if Connolly Kildare was provided it would be used tonight no question

[Mark Gleeson]

Just to prove how useless Irish Rail are can't even get the platform diaplays to work

198

The ticket checker at Pearse didn't even know it was running when I arrived at midnight, about 10 joined the train at Pearse, not bad when you consider no one knew it was running until this afternoon

On board heading south to Bray approx. 100

[ThomasJ]

Also, information on late night DART's was posted on the DART site and not irishrail.ie. Which website do DART passengers look? The DART website is useless, never updated and despite the fact that its called DART and Suburban, Commuter lines information is never posted there. Despite that, they obviously though DART passengers would use WWW.IRISHRAIL.IE/DART or WWW.DART.IE. (edit:Sorry, didn't know it was up on Irishrail.ie, still tink the DART site is a crap site and that irishrail.ie should be the one website)

Last nights Dundalk amd Maynooth were a success. For Maynooth 5 carriages were packed. The other 3 carriages had some passengers but not that many. It was also good for once to say Maynooth being the last train out of Connolly. The success of last nights train should help push the case for a train at 23.00 on a weekday night. Dundalk was pretty much the same good passenger levels. The Howth-bound DART was empty (looked as if there was less than 50 on board when leaving connolly). Kildare should have run even if not from connolly Heuston was running the extra cork service. (just out of interest which management team are running Kildare services, are they the same as maynooth and drogheda or are they the Heuston Intercity team)

PR and Information was a disaster. No information anywhere on the status and routes the trains were taking. The Maynooth train, had longford on its destination board, No audios or visuals working internally or externally and the destination board at connolly only displayed the DARTS. The big destination panels at connolly displayed nothing and add to the fact that the Maynooth and Dundalk timetables were not updated for yesterday.

So mixed fortunes on this. The people who lost out most on this- Kildare passengers. Maybe IE can learn from these mistakes, but I doubt it!!!

[Mark Gleeson]

Kildare local services seem to fall under Heustons control

The matter was mentioned (in person) to the manager on Thursday evening

Its as if they don't want the business

[ThomasJ]

Would the service get better treatment if there was a general Commuter Service manager looking after all commuter services in the Greater Dublin area

[ThomasJ]

Just to prove how useless Irish Rail are can't even get the platform diaplays to work

198

The ticket checker at Pearse didn't even know it was running when I arrived at midnight, about 10 joined the train at Pearse, not bad when you consider no one knew it was running until this afternoon

On board heading south to Bray approx. 100

Two quick points on this

1. It was the same case with the Connolly PIS, however I noticed that the Real-time timetable information board just before the ticket validators/checks at Connolly was showing the DARTs at Platform 5 & 6. I thought that PIS were a snapshot of these information screens.

2. clontarf Road was showing the extra train on its PIS. How was it so different to Connolly?