Sligo trains

[jscales1]

Folks i am delighted to report that the trains to and from sligo has never been as busy. In the last month i commuted to Dublin twice and the trains have been full The first day there were only three coaches on the train and i was left to stand i gave my seat to a mother and child today 18/2/09 i travelled to dublin and there were six carriages on the train and it was full when about forty to fifty people boarded at Mullingar. I hope this will be in our favour if the timetable is changed later in the year due to economic downturn.

[sublimity]

Your account illustrates that more 6 car trains are needed AND it also deserves a FIRST CLASS/DINING carriage.
Irish Rail should start treating the Sligo line with the same respect as it does with the Westport, Galway and Waterford lines.
It's 2009 not 1999

[Mark Gleeson]

But adding the first class actually removes 20+ seats. Will people pay to travel first in the current climate?

As of today all Mon-Sat services to Sligo are Intercity Railcars

Being realistic, what is needed is a 21:05 departure from Dublin and a 21:00 from Sligo. The three morning and evening peak services are already 6 coaches

[sublimity]

But adding the first class actually removes 20+ seats. Will people pay to travel first in the current climate?



I see your point but what about dining? Shouldnt passengers have the option of a meal for that lenght of a journey?
If only dining carriages were ordered separately.
Good thing about the mk3s was that there was a 'Restaurant' carriage without having a first class.
I just think Sligo passengers deserve more than just a trolley service especially for peak journeys

[Colm Moore]

What are the relevant layouts for the "food" carraiges?

Do I have this right:

Mark 2: all gone

Mark 3: Half catering, half dining seats (dine in the dining car or at your own seat)

Mark 4: Half catering, half standard class (dine at your own seat)

22000: Half catering, half first class (dine at your own seat)

Most / all long distance services: trolley.

[jscales1]

But adding the first class actually removes 20+ seats. Will people pay to travel first in the current climate?

As of today all Mon-Sat services to Sligo are Intercity Railcars

Being realistic, what is needed is a 21:05 departure from Dublin and a 21:00 from Sligo. The three morning and evening peak services are already 6 coaches

Cmon there is no need for a 21:00 service in either direction from the west/north west when cork has only a 21:00 ex dublin. Okay maybe a bus at 21:00 ex dublin to mullingar no sligo the roads are pretty clear at 21:00 IMO

[dowlingm]

Will people pay to travel first in the current climate?If subsidised air travel was got rid of, maybe...

A shrewd marketer might look at a 10-journey ticket for First for business people travelling to Dublin once or twice a week say.

[Mark Gleeson]

Well the trains are stuffed during the day, so why not 21:00. The last train west of Maynooth is 19:05 a later service is required

[on the move]

There should be night trains on all major routes. Even if it means less capacity. Almost every country in Europe has a 24h rail service, including the UK.

As is shown by the Luas in Dublin, there is demand for late-night rail services. There is even a nightbus from Sligo to Dublin introduced by CIE this year, so why not a overnighter on the train?

[PLUMB LOCO]

Population!

[Colm Moore]

There is even a nightbus from Sligo to Dublin introduced by CIE this year, so why not a overnighter on the train?Its designed for people heading for Dublin Airport (something the train can't do directly) and takes in more than just Sligo. The overhead in running a train (CTC, stations, ticketing) at that hour is much more than the overhead of running a bus.

[Mark Gleeson]

CTC is staffed 24 hours, well the Sligo line isn't yet but will be soon

All you need is one driver and one ticket checker, its about as cheap as a railway comes

Remember the later train would also generate extra business during the day, as most people are making return journeys. If they can't get back they won't make an outward journey.

[Colm Moore]

Remember the later train would also generate extra business during the day, as most people are making return journeys. If they can't get back they won't make an outward journey.

Sure, but:
Ballina dep 01.30 Dublin Airport arr 04.45
Sligo dep 02.00 Dublin Airport arr 05.25

Probably aren't great times for trains.

[on the move]

It doesn't have to stop at every station on the route, just the bigger towns, with maybe 2 carriages on the train. It reduces costs, and provides a service, so it's a win-win situation for everyone. Dublin-Cork should have two overnighters, given the population of both places.

There are overnight services in every country in Europe, except some of the small islands down south, so it should happen here as well.

[sublimity]

Can't be 2 carriages. The days of commuter trains going to Sligo are over, thank God.
It would have to be a 3 car 22k.
I'd imagine there'd be enough 22ks to facilitate an overnight service.
As much as I'd like to see it happen I'd have my doubts

[Mark Gleeson]

I'm talking of a 9pm train here, nothing crazy

While the classic costs issue raises its head, the railway has a massive fixed cost the only way to seriously alter the financial position is to sweat the assets and get value from the investment, more trains more passengers

Rail services are still at a quite low level compared to the UK in particular and it is crazy the last train west of Maynooth is still 19:05

[on the move]

Can't be 2 carriages. The days of commuter trains going to Sligo are over, thank God.
It would have to be a 3 car 22k.

I'm thinking similiar to the new small trains going from Heuston-Newbridge/Kildare. They would easily cover demand on an overnighter.

We do have a serious problem with single track lines nationwide, which cause unnecessary delay. I've been on trains to/from Sligo, that have sat and waited 15 minutes at stops waiting for incoming trains on the other side of the line. In 2009, a country like Ireland shouldn't be reliant on one line serving vast areas of the country.

You wouldn't have a one-lane motorway, so why should you have a one-lane track?

[comcor]

I can't see the demand for 24H services, even on Dublin-Cork. You might just justify it between Dublin and Port Laoise and between Cork and Mallow and then decide you'll run it through as a through train.

Later departures from Cork and Dublin would be nice though (especially from Cork on a Sunday).

It's probably wise to remember that overnight closures provide a good opportunity for engineering works.

[KSW]

I'm thinking similiar to the new small trains going from Heuston-Newbridge/KildareIs'nt the Kildare-Hueston train a new 3coach 22k train, Or is it the 29000 train you are talking about ??

[Mark Gleeson]

Is'nt the Kildare-Hueston train a new 3coach 22k train, Or is it the 29000 train you are talking about ??

Don't see how that is relevant

A consistent common fleet is essential, a consistent passenger experience, consistent performance and the ability to move things around if something goes wrong

[PLUMB LOCO]

I'm talking of a 9pm train here, nothing crazy

While the classic costs issue raises its head, the railway has a massive fixed cost the only way to seriously alter the financial position is to sweat the assets and get value from the investment, more trains more passengers

Rail services are still at a quite low level compared to the UK in particular and it is crazy the last train west of Maynooth is still 19:05


One word - Fastrack! :)

[Mark Gleeson]

One word - Fastrack! :)

For which the passenger is paying through the nose as it loses cash and requires every station to be staffed enroute

[jscales1]

Folks if we keep the eight services we have on the Sligo line at the moment in the current environment I will be happy. I think the service has turned around this year will all trains fifty to sixty % full in either direction. I would suggest if you want to get a 21:00 train west of Maynooth is to get rid of the 17:15 or 18:18 trains and sent the 18:00 train to Longford with eight carriages and get rid of the 20:50 train from Longford to Dublin since there is a train at 20:20 ex Sligo. I think rosslare europort could do with another train at peak time since there is an expansion going on at the moment of the Carpark. I also suggest that Irish rail start making use of the tunnel from Hueston to Connolly and introduce a cork to Belfast service and Galway to Waterford service and Sligo to Gorey and Westport to Tralee service all via Connolly and Hueston to capitalize on the train investment. There is definitely use for that tunnel now instead of forking out borrowed money for more trains. I know that the sligo trains sit waiting until the next service is ready sometimes for an hour

[on the move]

The peak time trains can't be removed, but I would like to see later services than the last train out of Sligo and Longford.

Agree with use of the tunnel. It's a farce that it's not used.

[PLUMB LOCO]

For which the passenger is paying through the nose as it loses cash and requires every station to be staffed enroute

You really are getting desperate in your answer to this question! You talk about sweating the assets - you really haven't a notion do you? What private company would last a week operating the way IE do? Trains passing throughout most of the 26/32 counties, stopping at already staffed stations and they turn away the simplest type of business imaginable. Indeed, what private company would order a new fleet of trains and exclude the capacity to carry parcels, traffic or serious amounts of luggage, bicycles etc. Not to mention the millions spent extending platforms when S.D.O. would have achieved the same result?

I think your argument that Fastrack has meant that every station has to be manned is outrageous as there are numerous other reasons why stations have been manned - ticket sales, signal cabins, toilets and station upkeep. It also ignores the fact that vast majority of the travelling public prefer to have stations manned for security reasons. I really don't know where you are coming from - who do you (and R.U.I) represent - some far right wing organisation like IBEC? Your vision for Irish railways seems to be of a largely unmanned system running nothing but spartan passenger sevices on a very skeletal system concentrated on Dublin - a vision which is a recipe for the eventual closure of the entire railway outside the Greater Dublin Area.

[Mark Gleeson]

Lets face some realities Irish Rail is in serious financial trouble, we are talking 30 odd million. The overtime paid to booking office staff last year is I'm told a 8 digit number. There is a serious need to review the staffing levels in order to meet the needs of the 21st century. There are heaps of stations which should be staffed, there are others which just don't have the numbers to justify it. Thats the European norm, having 4 staff on duty at a station with no more than 2 trains an hour doesn't add up

Curiously enough despite the majority of stations in Northern Ireland being unstaffed, they won a stack of customer service awards last week, why since they have focused on delivering the best service. We need to learn from them

We need an effective efficient passenger service, effective and efficient are not two words known to Irish Rail. There is a case for a later service to either Longford or Sligo, there is a train lying idle and a railway line lying idle

[jscales1]

I agree with Mark. I know that the station i use on a regular basis has a least seven station masters and there is a service every two hours and offpeak and hourly peak I think Irish rail needs to do a voluntary severence package and more automated services to reduce headcount. I know in Belfast Central there are only four in the station at anytime.

[PLUMB LOCO]

I agree with Mark. I know that the station i use on a regular basis has a least seven station masters and there is a service every two hours and offpeak and hourly peak I think Irish rail needs to do a voluntary severence package and more automated services to reduce headcount. I know in Belfast Central there are only four in the station at anytime.

Well bully for you. By the way which station in Ireland has 7 'station masters'?
In his reply to my post - if it was to my post - Mark showed all the hallmarks of his mortal enemies in IE. Just like Dick Fearn if he can't answer a specific point he ignores it. :D

[markpb]

I think your argument that Fastrack has meant that every station has to be manned is outrageous as there are numerous other reasons why stations have been manned - ticket sales, signal cabins, toilets and station upkeep. It also ignores the fact that vast majority of the travelling public prefer to have stations manned for security reasons.

I'd tend to agree with you that Fasttrack should be retained but I disagree with staffing levels. Station upkeep can easily be contracted out to a cleaning company like most other companies (public and private) do. Ticket sales can be handled by a TVM or on-train staff. Signal cabins are heading into the past where they belong and lastly, wanting station staff must be an Irish thing because I've used rail systems in several countries and never felt the need for a human presence locked in an office somewhere. All those things can be done while retaining the same (or better) level of service for most customers.

At the end of the day, the aim of RUI is to achieve a better passenger rail system. If Mark is right and FastTrack is losing money, then keeping it is contrary to the aims. If you think he's wrong, there's nothing stopping you setting up a FastTrack lobby group yourself.

[sean]

+1. Though I do think restructuring FastTrack would have been better than axing it.

[sublimity]

Agreed. Fastrack should not have been axed.

[PLUMB LOCO]

But being CIE/IE and the fact that things are done differently in Ireland I bring you this recent gem! :D

"Fearn Dick" <Dick.Fearn@irishrail.ie>
Sent by: "Reardon Heidi" <Heidi.Reardon@irishrail.ie>
11/02/2009 14:27
To <thomas.broughan@oireachtas.ie>
cc
Subject RE: FasTrack


Dear Deputy,

I refer to your e-mail below regarding Iarnrod Eireann's decision to withdraw from the Fastrack service.

The cessation of this element of Iarnrod Eireann?s business followed a management review undertaken in the second half of 2008.

However special arrangements will be made to continue handling medical items due to the important nature of this particular service. Mr. Gerry Conlon, Manager Fastrack will be in contact with customers in due course to outline the details of the revised service.

Many thanks

Dick Fearn

[sublimity]

But the 22ks aren't able to accomodate fastrack packages.

Does this mean Mk3's will be retained to accomodate some fastrack 'medical' services?

[Mark Gleeson]

This is a passenger forum, if you want to bitch about Fastrack talk to IBEC or ISME. And yes there are facilities to carry parcels on a 22k and are being used right now

[sublimity]

sorry, got a bit carried away with the fastrack issue. apologies

[PLUMB LOCO]

sorry, got a bit carried away with the fastrack issue. apologies

God help you! Are you a man or a mouse? :D

[Mark Gleeson]

Thats enough