2009 timetable

[KSW]

2009 due May/June

I was told by a ticket officer on the Rosslare service that the Rosslare line will not get a totally direct change on its daily services. He was telling me that the existing 13.05 might stay the way it is with a new 22k train but not the 18.35 and the morning service this afternoon train will be taken from a Sligo service and a 2800 class train will be swapped. I thought IE ordered more railcars for Sligo & Rosslare or is it the fact that not all 22k trains are in service yet.

He also said that the 2009 timetable will not be until June/July.

[sublimity]

[QUOTE=KSW;41142]I was told by a ticket officer on the Rosslare service that the Rosslare line will not get a totally direct change on its daily services.
QUOTE]

Thats not on. All services to Rosslare must be converted to 22ks. That was always the plan.

[KSW]

Thats not on. All services to Rosslare must be converted to 22ks. That was always the plan.

I agree that was the plan but we the customers:Ddont actually know what was the plan.

I think everyone on the line will have their own opinions on the line by june or july if this does happen.:D

[Mark Gleeson]

As I had posted many times, staff are only briefed on changes at short notice. This is just speculation

Not all trains south of Greystones will be 22k operated thats always been the position, 3 more 3 car 22k sets are awaited plus several 6 car sets

As it stands today there is no reason why the following services cannot be run

6:00 Gorey Dublin
16:30 Dublin Gorey

According to the Irish Rail staff timetable they should be 22k services

[sublimity]

Not all trains south of Greystones will be 22k operated thats always been the position,


Yes, the Gorey trains will remain commuter railcars so that's probably why the train times you mentioned are still 28ks.

Beyond Gorey we all fully expect 22ks to be used with some 2x3 car formations for the busier time slots.

[ThomasJ]

i reckon that if the formation i suggested would happen there wont be any 6-coach 22k formations on the rosslare line

[Thomas Ralph]

Several of the wrong-side platforms are too short for them anyway.

[sublimity]

i reckon that if the formation i suggested would happen there wont be any 6-coach 22k formations on the rosslare line

One train each way should be a 6 coach. E.g afternoon train to Rosslare and the evening return to Dublin. Only Rathdrum is a problem with platforms.

[Mark Gleeson]

The platform thing isn't a problem, they stop in Woodlawn which is also short

The doors are software controlled so there is no problem locking out the last door of the train if required, could even be done manually by the ticket checker

[sublimity]

Great, so there is no reason why a 6-coach 22k should not be used on the Rosslare line. Glad we sorted that out

[ThomasJ]

Great, so there is no reason why a 6-coach 22k should not be used on the Rosslare line. Glad we sorted that out

Not quiet, just yet by the looks of things! :confused: why couldnt rotem have done this?

http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC111145

[Mark Gleeson]

It was my understanding that the fleet was ordered to have SDO, the computer console certainly displays the status of all doors

There are 183 ICR coaches, the tender says 234 so either Irish Rail are ordering 51 more or they are talking about the commuter fleet as its "up to 234 DMU vehicles of the same class / build type" . So Irish Rail have given the game away, they have a contract option on the ICR fleet most likely

The problem with SDO is to know when to disable the doors and which ones, thats where you need a complex technical solution and no GPS isn't a great solution

They are talking about 100 platforms, which is somewhere upwards of 50 stations in total, I only count 8 platforms in need of this on the Rosslare line

[ThomasJ]

They are talking about 100 platforms, which is somewhere upwards of 50 stations in total, I only count 8 platforms in need of this on the Rosslare line

Could this include taking into account 9-coach trains?

[Mark Gleeson]

Heuston side most platforms are 210m, long enough for a 9 car if required, Thurles needs a short extension on one platform but I can't see where 50 platforms is coming from, unless its the entire Sligo line and Rosslare lines

[wobbles]

51 extra 22000 class carriages were ordered nearly six months ago.

IE opted against SDO in the original order for the 22000 class. A nine coach consist (1 six car coupled to 1 three car) was tested recently. IE are looking at using 9 car consists on some of their busier services. A nine coach 22000 would be longer than most platforms so hence the tender for SDO.

[ThomasJ]

Upgrading Rosslare and Sligo line to 9-coach?

For the Rosslare side that would be a waste, 6 coach is sufficent

What about the commuter services side of things Mark?

Any short platforms or possible upgrades?

[ThomasJ]

51 extra 22000 class carriages were ordered nearly six months ago.

IE opted against SDO in the original order for the 22000 class. A nine coach consist (1 six car coupled to 1 three car) was tested recently. IE are looking at using 9 car consists on some of their busier services. A nine coach 22000 would be longer than most platforms so hence the tender for SDO.

Sorry wobbles! misread that! me bad :o Are there many stations on the heuston line like that?!

[ThomasJ]

Just what was said on boards

Yes this is for the 22000 fleet.

I can't say why this was not in the original specification. It (in my opinion) should certainly have been. However, what this will now allow is 6-car operation on the Rosslare route and perhaps 9-car operation on other routes if the need allows.

Now what other piece of information that has not really been in the public arena can you glean from the notice?

[Mark Gleeson]

No contract award notice for a further order, only published orders are

1. 20 * 3 + 10 * 6 = 120
2. 10 * 3 = 30
3. 1 * 3 + 5 * 6 = 33

Been saying for ages that Irish Rail where 40-60 coaches short so it would make sense. For Rosslare, Limerick area and WRC most likely

[ThomasJ]

and pace and the upgraded kildare line

[Colm Moore]

Sorry wobbles! misread that! me bad :o Are there many stations on the heuston line like that?!Heuston-Cork all have longer platforms (210m?).

All other new / extended stations are being built to 174m (8-car DART/2600-2900).

I'm not sure about existing stations.

[sublimity]

51 extra 22000 class carriages were ordered nearly six months ago.



Well that is great news. I wonder are they all in 3 coach formats (17*3) or a combination of 3 coach and 6 coach.

They really should have ordered a lot more 6 coach sets in the first place.

[sublimity]

Sadly its not possible for safety reasons to send a 8 coach train south of Greystones

And what about the 6 coach 22k?

Mark you said there should be no problem with a 6 coach 22k going to Rosslare. Are you still of that viewpoint? Any confirmation from Irish Rail about this issue?

[Mark Gleeson]

There should be no problem with a 6 car 22k set, once there is some way to lock the very rear door at the stations where a short platform exists. It was indicated a long time ago that the new trains had selective door opening turns out they don't

Curiously enough the platform at Woodlawn on the Galway line is short as well, but the new trains stop there. The Mk4 stopped at Templemore and Portarlington which both had very short platforms until recently

[PLUMB LOCO]

There would be no problem operating 6 or 8 carriage trains on the Rosslare line if CIE/IE wished to. They do exactly what suits them and throw up all sorts of Health & Safety concerns when it suits them. Without doubt two of the busiest stations in the country - Cork and Connolly (Platform 5) - are two of the most dangerous for passengers but they are not shut down. I refer to 'mind the gap' - the yawning chasm between the train door and the platforms in these locations. I am not advocating that they be closed but just that CIE/IE cop themselves on and sort out the nonsense about platform lengths.:D

[dowlingm]

Curiously enough the platform at Woodlawn on the Galway line is short as well, but the new trains stop there. The Mk4 stopped at Templemore and Portarlington which both had very short platforms until recentlyWhen Rathdrum was extended I guess it lost its grandfather rights?

[roamling]

There would be no problem operating 6 or 8 carriage trains on the Rosslare line if CIE/IE wished to. They do exactly what suits them and throw up all sorts of Health & Safety concerns when it suits them.

I guess there would be health and safety concerns if a platform is to short (at the latest when a passenger uses the wrong exit and misses the platform :rolleyes: ) But seriously, when I came to this country 5 years ago (before that I was complaining to Deutsche Bahn :) ) I could not believe that I had to go into the first two carriages to leave the train at Castlebar for example. I considered that a health and safety issue and actually people DID leave the train there off limits the platform because the doors weren't locked.

[Thomas Ralph]

There is very much a problem running anything longer than a 6-car 2800 set south of Greystones, as that is the longest that the platforms at Rathdrum, Arklow, Enniscorthy, Wexford, and Rosslare Strand can manage.

[sublimity]

Wexford is one of the longest platforms in the country.

Mark seems to think a 6 car 22k will be fine once the rear door is locked. Try not to be so negative.

[ThomasJ]

Wexford is one of the longest platforms in the country.

Mark seems to think a 6 car 22k will be fine once the rear door is locked. Try not to be so negative.

The question is though is it needed?

Where did I hear before that a 6 coach 22k has more seats than an 8-coach 29k? My point is that seperation of Rosslare and Maynooth/Drogheda is about to take place is there sufficent passengers using the rosslare services to warrant a train with that capacity on the line? Especially in light of passenger numbers falling.

[sublimity]

is there sufficent passengers using the rosslare services to warrant a train with that capacity on the line? Especially in light of passenger numbers falling.

They'll rise again once the new trains operate the line! People will realise that the journey will be much more comfortable with the new trains.

It's worth noting that more people will probably be holidaying at home this year which means more people will be using the train. Rosslare is a major holiday destination and if this summer happens to be a good one weatherwise I'd imagine the trains to Rosslare will be packed.

Yes I think it does warrant 6 coaches, maybe not for every train to/from Rosslare but certainly some.

[Thomas Ralph]

Whoops, scratch Wexford.

The problem with the concept of only opening the front five doors is that it can't be done :(

[KSW]

Try not to be so negative.
:)

Rosslare and Maynooth/Drogheda is about to take place is there sufficent passengers using the rosslare services to warrant a train with that capacity on the line? Especially in light of passenger numbers falling.

Don't be thinking negatively :). But I honestly cant blame people for not using the train service on the Calafort Ros Lair line. People have I bet just about enough of these 2800 Commuter Railcars they aren't exactly comfortable especially coming from i.e Gorey & Wexford where the journey is 1hr40mins & Wexford 2hr30mins. Im using the 07.26 Connolly Gorey in the morning and the thought of the 2800 train is literally pissing me off:). Where-as if that was a new 22k train then I guarantee you I and many others would feel different.

They'll rise again once the new trains operate the line! People will realise that the journey will be much more comfortable with the new trains.
Yes I think it does warrant 6 coaches, maybe not for every train to/from Rosslare but certainly some. Certainly a case for the last train and the first early morning train from Rosslare to Dublin. But the 3car sets can hold 200 people so maybe that will be enough.

"Try not to be so negative." Maybe this messgae should be sent to the head of IE for the Rosslare line.:);)

[sublimity]

Whoops, scratch Wexford.

The problem with the concept of only opening the front five doors is that it can't be done :(

Where there's a will there's a way...:cool:

[dowlingm]

well, IE have tendered for the way, we just can't figure out why it wasn't in the original spec...

[KSW]

When is the Rossalre line going to see the new timetable, Its obviously not Sep27th as proposed will it be next month then maybe the next month or with IE the following month.

Is the Malahide viaduct causing this problem with the new timetable to be issued?

[sublimity]

Is the Malahide viaduct causing this problem with the new timetable to be issued?

It shouldn't be but it looks like it is

[ThomasJ]

Bear in mind that a few things to be factored in...

- Connolly timetable
- DART timetable
- DARTS enroute on the Bray/Greystones route
- Northern/Western commuters in the Connolly Pearse area
- reported new clockface DART timetable which Rosslare needs, in order to work

The new Rosslare timetable is unworkable with the current DART timetable and would be a disaster if introduced before the rest of the DART/Commuters. The timetable has to be integrated.

[Mark Gleeson]

Malahide has really screwed things up, there are 52 DMU coaches north of Malahide, in simple terms thats a third of the entire fleet

The two remaining 3 car 22k sets have yet to show up

[KSW]

I think Irish Rail should really consider putting the last service to Rosslare/Wexford leaving Dublin @19.30 or 20.00

People as like myself need a late service back home.

[PLUMB LOCO]

I think Irish Rail should really consider putting the last service to Rosslare/Wexford leaving Dublin @19.30 or 20.00

People as like myself need a late service back home.

You're joking aren't you? CIE/IE is operated for the benefit of management and a social employment scheme for staff - passenger requirements are not part of the equation. Where are the wonderful 22000s??

[sublimity]

I'm happy and relieved that 100% of trains to/from Rosslare and 80% to Wexford will comprise of Intercity stock.

However, the 13.30 and 18.30 to Rosslare will be a big test capacity wise. I've a strong hunch that a 2x3 car 22k may be required.

[Mark Gleeson]

Just because it says intercity doesn't imply it will be an ICR

[PLUMB LOCO]

I'm happy and relieved that 100% of trains to/from Rosslare and 80% to Wexford will comprise of Intercity stock.

However, the 13.30 and 18.30 to Rosslare will be a big test capacity wise. I've a strong hunch that a 2x3 car 22k may be required.

How do you suggest that a 2x3 car set will operate given CIE's and the Dept.of Transport's newly developed interest in rail safety? i.e the platform at Rathdrum!!!:rolleyes:

[Mark Gleeson]

Don't blame Kildare Street, its not allowed up north, in the UK or many other countries with high level platforms. There is at least one case in recent enough history involving an over long train at Dalkey where a passenger suffered a head injury

It will be all 3 car sets anyway

[KSW]

I have got to say this is the worst timetable for the Rosslare line I have ever seen, What are we going back to 2005 with a 12pm service going to Arklow.

I am upset that the 10.30 Dublin-Rosslare did not go ahead that service I think would have been a winner. It would have been perfect if Passengers did'nt suit the early 07.32 service.

Services from Gorey to Dublin, The 08.01 11.21 15.30 would have literally made the line.

Looking at the new waste of time timetable, from Gorey the 06.00 06.45 & 08.56(was 08.50) still the same. Next service is 14.01 and 19.04 from 9am to 2pm and 7pm thats a 5hour space between them has IE not learned something by now. With the last train 20.27(Wex-Dub)

Important do Intercity trains terminate all its services to/from Rosslare/Wexford at Connolly and does not go beyond????

Fair enough new trains but at the end of the day Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus have a much better service, with Wexford Bus been the fastest from Gorey. I can honestly see now why the Rosslare line has few passenges.:mad:

[Graham W]

I too am disappointed especially when i saw no 10:30 to Wexford. The 12:05 service to Arklow is pointless.
Happy with the new trains and the fact most of them terminate at Connolly but thats all.

[sublimity]

From looking at the PDF'S it appears the 13.30 and 18.30 to Rosslare will be 22k and possibly the 16.30 to Wexford as well.:)

[wobbles]

All services except the 12.05 Arklow and the 17.30 Wexford are 22K operated

[sublimity]

Anyone travel on the the wexford/rosslare trains today? Any long delays? Were there many people standing on the peak services??
I didn't get a chance to travel on them yet but hopefully by the end of the week.

[Mark Gleeson]

No probs with seats on the 13:30 from Connolly, as in 4 to yourself

Delays were no worse than normal

[KSW]

Im not at home in Ireland i wanted to know is the new timetable with the new trains in effect

[Thomas Ralph]

The new timetable is in effect. Some Rosslare line services are 22K-operated; some are not.

[Mark Gleeson]

All services to Rosslare at 22k, commuter services are still 28/29k

[drumcondra commuter]

It may have been posted already but I noticed that in the new timetable from November 29th, the 16.53 from Maynooth to Rosslare via Connolly arrives in Drumcondra 6 minutes later than the same scheduled service ante November 29th. :confused:

[Mark Gleeson]

That Maynooth train now terminates at Pearse, a separate train operates the 18:30 to Rosslare

[ThomasJ]

That train that drumcondra commuter is referring to is the 16.53 maynooth wexford (calls at leixlip louisa bridge, coolmine and drumcondra). Departs connolly at 17.30

[dowlingm]

How do you suggest that a 2x3 car set will operate given CIE's and the Dept.of Transport's newly developed interest in rail safety? i.e the platform at Rathdrum!!!:rolleyes:How many people get on/off at Rathdrum anyway? How about skipping it for certain services?

[ThomasJ]

How many people get on/off at Rathdrum anyway? How about skipping it for certain services?

Is rathdrum the only station ? I thought there was two or three ?

[sublimity]

All services to Rosslare at 22k, commuter services are still 28/29k

When you say commuter services are 28/29k I assume you mean the 12.05 to arklow and the 17.30 to wexford only. The 16.30 is InterCity right?

[sublimity]

How many people get on/off at Rathdrum anyway? How about skipping it for certain services?

I don't think thats going to happen! Hopefully next year or early 2011 we will have 6 car 22ks on the Rosslare line when SDO arrives.

It still angers me greatly that you can't put a 2x3 car set on the line at present because of one platform at Rathdrum. This safety malarky grinds my gears

[sublimity]

That Maynooth train now terminates at Pearse, a separate train operates the 18:30 to Rosslare
Thank God!

[wobbles]

When you say commuter services are 28/29k I assume you mean the 12.05 to arklow and the 17.30 to wexford only. The 16.30 is InterCity right?

The 1630 to Wexford and 1930 ex Wexford are 29 operated. The 09.05 to Sligo and return trip have also returned to 29 operation. Quite simply there are not enough 22K trains to cover all services.

[sublimity]

If they hadn't put some 22ks going to Cork then maybe there would be enough to cover all Sligo services and the 16.30 to Wexford!!

This is not acceptable. I thought they ordered plenty of 22ks back in 2006? Should they really be used on newbridge/kildare services??? I think 29ks are more suitable. You really have to question the deployment of some of the 22k

[dowlingm]

sublimity - some 22Ks were ordered in commuter config to replace the Mark 3 Push Pulls.

[sublimity]

sublimity - some 22Ks were ordered in commuter config to replace the Mark 3 Push Pulls.

Does this mean the plan is for 29ks to be limited to Maynooth and Dundalk commuter lines?

What is the plan for the commuter stock? Are they planning to withdraw some of the 2600/2700/2800/29k class soon pending the arrival of more 22ks?

[Mark Gleeson]

All of late 2011 all services from/to Longford and Dundalk will be 22k operated. There 22k fleet are common, either 3 or 6 car and the 6 car either has first class or no first class. No Cobh or Midleton services are 22k, only Cork-Mallow-Kerry in the 2010 timetable as it should be.

Remember 6 coaches had to be sent back to Korea due in transit damage, they have been scrapped and 6 new ones built. The final 3 car set should appear in service in coming days and a number are trapped beyond Carrick-in-Shannon

The released trains go to Dunboyne and elsewhere

[sublimity]

The final 3 car set should appear in service in coming days and a number are trapped beyond Carrick-in-Shannon

The released trains go to Dunboyne and elsewhere

Lets hope that final 3 car set is shared between Sligo and Wexford!

Remember Sligo still has 29ks on Sundays which is disgraceful. This must come to an end soon.

[Kilocharlie]

Remember 6 coaches had to be sent back to Korea due in transit damage, they have been scrapped and 6 new ones built. The final 3 car set should appear in service in coming days and a number are trapped beyond Carrick-in-Shannon



I think the final set for service is a 6-car non-premier version 22045. All 3 car sets bar the two returned to Korea are in service. These two will apparently not be replaced until the next deliveries in late 2010 as they will added to the 51 car order.

[PLUMB LOCO]

How many people get on/off at Rathdrum anyway? How about skipping it for certain services?

How about shutting the line south of Greystones? :confused:

[dowlingm]

Hey if I was doing radical surgery I'd cut the line before Bray Head.

[PLUMB LOCO]

Called down to the station today in the forlorn hope of getting the full book version of the new timetable - the staff haven't even received copies yet! Normal service has been resumed anyway as the 07.32 from Connolly (ICR ) arrived 17 minutes late with about 8 passengers aboard. Walking back from the station I was passed by an empty, but in service, #2 Bus Eireann service to Rosslare Harbour. This wasteful duplication of services is decimating the railway, wasting tax payers money as well as polluting the planet.

[drumcondra commuter]

That Maynooth train now terminates at Pearse, a separate train operates the 18:30 to Rosslare

I think to Wexford as I stayed on it last night until Tara St. And there was no physical switching of trains needed at Connolly.

But apparently the delay in the "fast" 16h53 train that makes three stops from Maynooth to Connolly is now slower because an 'all stops' commuter train leaves Maynooth at 16h40! WTF?

[KSW]

I think the new timetable is outrageous. The 13.30 arrives into Gorey at 15.23 1hr53mins total time, where-as the 2009 timetable the total time was 1hr38mins. It takes 15mins longer to reach Gorey simply outrageous.

[KSW]

I just wanted to ask,will there be a new 2011 timetable published this year or will the current timetable continue???

[Colm Moore]

It is unlikely to be changed much until they get more 22000s.

There may be minor adjustments as seen over the last 6 months.

[Jamie2k9]

When are more 2200's due and how many units??
When is 6 car set due back into service? (Half in Glasgow being repaired and other sitting in Portlaois).

On the journey planner all services are only available until mid Feb. The need to have a new timetable for some routes as the current one is a complete mess.