View Full Version : Exit validation finally arrives
Mark Gleeson
18-04-2006, 21:59
Long awaited exit validation has finally arrived at Grand Canal Dock and by the looks of the queue this morning the get out it wasn't a altogether smooth operation
Of course muppet boy from CIE was out on Sunday for the photo, note he is entering the station at this point not leaving, kind of pointless, nor is Dr Lynch using his own annual ticket he is using a crouzet dummy test ticket
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Kevin K Kelehan
19-04-2006, 07:29
Validation equipment is a necessary addition however the layout of these machines does not look encouraging in the way that lining them up at a 90 degree angle with clear demarcation between entry and exit stiles as on other commuter neyworks where they are used.
One fears that many stations simply may not have been designed to accomodate sufficient quantities of these machines
Mark Gleeson
19-04-2006, 08:34
There are major delays leaving Grand Canal Dock in the morning as a result of the new system.
Certain stations will be able to cope, there is a huge space in Tara Street that would be suitable
If the entire plan is to reduce fare evasion the best option would be to install the machines at lightly used stations where you currently don't get challenged for a ticket
Exit validation becomes important when you more to smartcard ticketing as you need to tag on and tag off
Is Exit validation really such a good thing? I can understand the argument about preventing fare evasion, but we should really be weighing it up against ease of use.
Personally I'd like to see open platforms with entrances/exits from all sides. There is nothing worse than having to walk all the way around or over a station to get in, only to have to walk back again to the opposite side of the platform.
It works fine in A'dam :-) and also seems to work perfectly well on the Luas!! Really makes the system nicer to use.
Nevermind a bunch of fancy barriers. The only way to reduce far evasion is to present the would be offender with a serious possibility of actually getting caught. These machines in remote stations will do nothing to stop the evaders hopping over them or a nearby fence.
They should open the system up completely and mont regular undercover checks a la Deutsche Bahn. The doors close then the oul wan next to ou produces ID and demands your ticket! I have seen it and there's no escape from the 'wache' doing their 'knotrolle'.
The thing that puts me off getting the DART home (Pearse or Tara) is trying to get out of the station. People using the turnstyles (that is what they're there for) and 'inspectors' letting people walk through the exit gates.
If exit validation stop people walking through these gates then it has done it's job.
Indeed, it's the same in A'dam.
Metro pulls in, a group of 8+ inspectors get on coming in via every door. Everyone getting off at that stop has their ticket checked, they then move in and check everyone elses ticket after the doors close.
Unlike the IE crowd, who can be quite predictable...
Summer Mornings - Howth for da breakfast
Winter Evenings - Clontarf Road (on da way home)
Afternoons/Nighttime - Non existant
The RPA were trying to convince IE to go to an open system with the honour fare, smart cards and flash ticket checking.
Its possible but a long way away and much easier implimented with proper integrated fares and ticketing.
Mark Gleeson
19-04-2006, 10:01
The potential revenue loss on the rail system is much greater than on Luas. I think people fail to realise how much revenue is being lost, which results in increased fares.
Its trivial to fare evade on Luas during the rush hour as its so crushed, I met the Luas revenue protection people once I waved my smart card and that was it that said someone was issued with a fine at 10:30 on a Sunday
The barrier is the typical solution on mass transit system, very handy on underground systems as you know exactly how many passengers in the system and also you can lock the gates instantly if needs be
The IE revenue team where in Sydney Parade southbound this morning, they are no longer predictable, game plan is to stake out one station in the morning and a different one in the evening (since on train checks are not feasible) then travel off peak
My idea help to 'poor IE's revenue loss' would be to make it all open plan and redeploy the hardworking station masters as ticket checkers.
Kevin K Kelehan
19-04-2006, 11:26
I almost agree but in the absence of onboard ticket sales this could prove problematic for those who arrive at stations without coins. I remember waiting 45 minutes for a station manager to arrive once to buy a ticket; the sign of course said 'Back in 10 minutes' :o
I almost agree but in the absence of onboard ticket sales this could prove problematic for those who arrive at stations without coins. I remember waiting 45 minutes for a station manager to arrive once to buy a ticket; the sign of course said 'Back in 10 minutes' :o
I had forgotten the DART frequency issue. Still and all. The Luas manages to get customers to bring the correct amount with them.
I almost agree but in the absence of onboard ticket sales this could prove problematic for those who arrive at stations without coins.
But don't the machines already accept notes? AND Credit Cards? or am I mistaken...
Mark Gleeson
19-04-2006, 12:39
The machines take coin, cash and credit cards but they won't take €50 notes unless the change is less than a certain amount (€18 I think). The machines are limited in what they can sell
I tried the exit validation out, obviously with practice people will get faster going through, very London Underground style though. Notable increase in the width of the gate as well
The machines take coin, cash and credit cards but they won't take €50 notes unless the change is less than a certain amount (€18 I think). The machines are limited in what they can sell
Yet they work puerfectly well on the Luas. Really it comes down to IE.
Mark Gleeson
19-04-2006, 13:03
The machines work fine, the €18 limit is a legal one not an random choice
One interesting thing with exit validation is a extra wide turnstile, big enough to take a wheelchair. They are all open turnstiles so there is no bar in the way a London Underground style door opens
How is GCD layed out now?
Is there seperate exit and entry turnstyles?
How many of each?
What used to be there?
The machines work fine, the €18 limit is a legal one not an random choice
I'm not doubting the machines, I'm doubting the motivation to move to a ticketless system. Luas manages fine with it's limit (I assume it isn't more than €18) so I don't see why IE can't other than they don't want to.
Mark Gleeson
19-04-2006, 13:19
How is GCD layed out now?
Is there seperate exit and entry turnstyles?
How many of each?
What used to be there?
3 turnstiles, dual use both entry and exit
The one on the left as you exit (right as you enter) is the extra wide one
Same location as before, same number as before
3 turnstiles, dual use both entry and exit
I can already see this failing. At busy times people will be fighting over entry or exit and it causing huge delay, worse than my present gripe. IIRC in London they have seperate ones for entry and exit.
Open plan IE. It works for the Luas and if you bothered your arses it could work for you too!
Kevin K Kelehan
19-04-2006, 13:40
That was the point I was making above about turning the stiles at 90 degrees in long slender concourses. Unfortunately some of the stations are simply too small to accomodate this equipment and either new exits will have to be built or chaos will result for the commuting public. :confused:
James Shields
24-04-2006, 11:43
I was on the 7:28 from Drogheda this morning, and there was a huge crowd waiting to pass the ticket checkers (edit: in Connolly). The few people heading the opposite way had to fight their way through the crowd. If we have a limited number of bi-directional gates, it's hard to see how people can get in at all.
The LU is a good example of a similar system, and it works well, but they have lots of gates, and at any given time each gate only operates in one direction, with the number of gates varying at different times of day according to the number of people entering and leaving the station (though you'll always need more exit gates, as people arrive at the station in dribs and drabs, but everyong getting off a train leaves together).
I know space is a problem in many stations (including the city centre ones), but IE need to either find enough space to make exit validation workable, or move to an open system like Luas.
In Connolly they could move all the machines into the foyer. There is plenty of space there.
but that would interfere with their retail space and we all know CIE are more interested in stuff like that than actually providing integrated public transport. So I wouldn't be holding my breath. Honestly, can anyone see them EVER installing the numbers of these barriers that you see on the LU? They'll never do it all-out and it'll be a mess. Open system all the way and stop selling tickets to people who have obviously tried to evade paying the damn fare! More actual ticket inspections, more TVMs, fewer bloody barriers.
James Shields
25-04-2006, 16:36
One possible solution at Connolly would be to remove the sliding doors between the foyer and the platforms and put a long row of barriers there.
Reopening the old suburban station so that everyone isn't concentrated through a single point would also be a good idea.
Kevin K Kelehan
25-04-2006, 16:53
Or even having the Amiens Street station as exit only in the mornings and entry only in the evenings with those who wish to access the main station doing so as a choice.
Mark Gleeson
06-06-2006, 10:37
The new turnstiles are in place in Clontarf Rd having arrived sometime in the last week or so, they had yet to be switched on when I passed through on Sunday
What happens if you don't have a ticket when you arrive at the exit validation machine?
I assume they will have to have a member of staff available at all times to open the gate and let you through? or how is this going to work? In other cities, there is always someone manning a gate on one side who can let you through.. are we going to have this at every station?
Of course the best solution is to have open platforms, but we seem hell bent on going down the wrong road :mad:
Mark Gleeson
14-06-2006, 22:42
The turnstiles are directly opposite the ticket office. There is a release button under the desk
I have no problem with the entry exit system its the standard practice it would be fine if there were enough turnstiles to handle the flow of people
Clontraf Rd should be a more suitable location for this kind of setup
why_does_planning_suck
18-06-2006, 23:48
never mind the turnstiles and exit validation nonsense, no need for it at all.
Totally agree. Perhaps the unions don't want to have to implement in inevitable change in ticket procedure.... ....
A reguler user of the suas luas, ticket inspection happen a lot more often than might appear to the occasional user. And you are right it works.
Of course you are trying to apply sense , which is not something that springs to mind with I.E. !!!:) :) :)
Ease of access to the station is my main gripe with entry/exit validation. For instance, in Clontarf, they could put an extra set of steps at the opposite end of the platform which would make it a LOT easier for the majority of rush hour passengers accessing East Point. Would help alleviate the exit problem from the station too.
Also, does anyone know if the new exit validators will keep the ticket? I want to keep mine for expense purposes, and as the ticket vending machines don't give receipts, what options will there be. I believe I'm legally entitled to a receipt?
Luas stuff moved to members discussion.
James Shields
26-06-2006, 11:37
I agree an extra exit in Clontarf Road would be a good idea. In theory exit validation makes this easier, as you won't need ticket checkers at both exits. I presume this will be the case with the new exit being added at Tara St.
I've used the exit validation at Grand Canal Dock, but I have a yearly ticket, so I don't know if it keeps single tickets. This is generally the norm in other countries. The TVMs do give you a receipt if you pay by credit card - but you can't pay for a single DART journey by credit card. A simple solution would be to have a "print receipt" button, like you have on car park machines.
Hmmm, that's an issue in the LU too. Single tickets are retained on exit.
I'm sure they could add a receipt option.
I actually find the LUAS TVMs better programmed than the IE versions. The bit that really annoys me is that when you enter the destination etc.. it still asks you to press CASH before it'll open the coin slot.
Surely it should just open the coin slot etc anyway unless you press CARD
Also, neither the Luas nor the IE TVMs will accept my AIB Laser/Maestro card. It constantly comes up as "card unreadable" .. is there a particular problem with chip & pin Laser cards?
Mark Gleeson
29-06-2006, 14:49
Breaking news as many will have noticed AIB have festooned Pearse with ads, one of them had the tag line
......... faster than you can get through the new gates at Grand Canal Dock
The posters (at least 2) were removed within 48 hours but the gaps where they once were are still there
James Shields
29-06-2006, 15:34
Breaking news as many will have noticed AIB have festooned Pearse with ads, one of them had the tag line
......... faster than you can get through the new gates at Grand Canal Dock
The posters (at least 2) were removed within 48 hours but the gaps where they once were are still there
I saw the posters. Surprised at their removal.
Mark Gleeson
29-06-2006, 15:40
Much as I would have liked to obtain one they disappeared before I got a chance with the camera
Just goes to highlight the poor acceptance of the new gates at GCD, its just too confined a space for it to work
Saw the posters too. when I went looking yesterday they were gone :D seems IE cant take a joke
Mark Gleeson
12-07-2006, 10:18
Latest update is Clontarf Rd went live about 2 weeks ago, Lansdowne Rd secondary exit is the next one to be switched over, its probably the best location chosen so far
Terrontress
14-07-2006, 11:36
Does anyone know when Lansdowne will be up and running by?
It would appear that they are starting with the 3 central stations: Connolly, Pearse and Tara which have human ticket collectors and then working out from there. GCD, Clontarf and Lansdowne.
Next stations to be done maybe Killester and Sandymount?
I think either Blackrock or Dun laoghaire is next after the cc
Mark Gleeson
14-07-2006, 15:02
Pearse and Connolly are not on the list to be done at this time
Terrontress
14-07-2006, 15:30
But that is because they have human ticket checkers there so they do not need the deterrent so urgently as the others.
How long does it take to install and test the checkers?
But that is because they have human ticket checkers there so they do not need the deterrent so urgently as the others.
The ticket checkers who let people on to the platform with out validating thier tickets and rarely check people leaving? A mechanical bull would be more effective than them.
Ticket checker's not much use when he's just sitting there reading the newspaper ...
James Shields
15-07-2006, 13:12
But that is because they have human ticket checkers there so they do not need the deterrent so urgently as the others.
How long does it take to install and test the checkers?
No, that is because unless you install them on the scale of central London tube stations, the build-up of people waiting to leave the station will be so great that the stations will become unsafe. Both stations will require a major redesign to facilitate exit validation.
There are plans on the drawing board for a new enterance lobby on Pearse St, which will presumably be designed with exit validation in mind. Hopefully the Westland Row enterance will remain as a secondary exit and exit validation may then be installed.
Exit validation would be possible in Connolly if the old Suburban station was reopened as this has more room for the barriers. People would then have a choice exits and neither would get overloaded.
Maynooth_Line
15-07-2006, 20:42
Sorry if its a bit off topic but do you know if there's any chance of the Suburban station at Connolly re-opening? Does anyone know if thats in the pipe-line or even been discussed? I know there use to be a lot of anti-social stuff going on there back when it was open.
Mark Gleeson
24-08-2006, 15:43
Does anyone know when Lansdowne will be up and running by?
Kit arrived yesterday at the main station building, no sign of the secondary exit being fitted
Usual two normal, one large
Mark Gleeson
06-09-2006, 16:02
There are 4 machines in Lansdowne Rd, the fourth is to the left of the original 2 on the way out
I have tested the machines and it is possible to walk through quickly, as soon as the person infront has removed there ticket insert yours and the gate will stay open
Mark Gleeson
07-09-2006, 13:56
3 more arrived today on the southbound platform exit, 1 large 2 small as always
Thankfully common sense seems to have prevailed, and they now permanently have one open in Clontarf Road.... :D
Hopefully next step is to remove them totally. ;)
Mark Gleeson
20-09-2006, 14:26
Lansdowne Rd went live today with a total of 7 turnstiles, 4 on the station side 3 on the new exit side
Mark Gleeson
25-09-2006, 19:44
Blackrock is next on the list, kit arrived Thursday evening
Principle problem is the fact people don't have there ticket, I witnessed one woman spend the best part of a minute furiously searching through her handbag
Now given you are supposed to have your ticket ready for inspection anyway once again the human element fails
People will get used to that requirement rather quickly once it's introduced widely.
IE do need a little presence on the platform at peak hours though if they plan to push people through the barriers as quickly as possible. Even small L.U. stations will have someone manning the gate at peak times to prevent someone with a jammed ticket causing chaos!
Then again, you wouldn't dare block an L.U. gate at rush hour, you'd be eaten alive / trampled to death!
Terrontress
05-10-2006, 10:48
To be honest, I think that the introduction of the ticket barriers in Lansdowne has been useless on the southbound platform anyway.
Due to the numbers of people trying to get out and the delays it causes, I have taken to just walking through the barrier behind the person in front.
The consequence? A comedy train doot doot sound.
I have a ticket to be inspected by anyone who wants to but nobody has challenged me.
luasifer
07-10-2006, 01:50
well aren't you great. The design of these barriers means it is quite feasible for you to be able to put your ticket in the machine and walk through without the gate ever closing from the person in front of you
Thomas J Stamp
09-10-2006, 09:55
well aren't you great.
No need for that, ok?
Mark Gleeson
09-10-2006, 11:54
Principle problem at Lansdowne is human and the need to burrow into the wallet etc to find the ticket, otherwise it works just fine and it is possible to walk through at a reasonable pace, faster than before in fact since the barrier will stay open
Mark Gleeson
10-10-2006, 18:28
Blackrock is next, there will be 4 barriers
4 are accessible from the waiting room side door (the far end one next to the ramp to the bridge), only 2 are accessible from the second door
Tara Street northbound is next on the list, if they place a line of 6 or 7 turnstilies in the vacant area at the bottom of the stairs it should go down very well and speed up exit
Time and time again its people not having there ticket ready which is holding up the system
James Shields
11-10-2006, 20:38
Posters up in Tara St saying "Automatic ticket checking on exit coming soon to this station."
There are currently no machines operating in Tara Street - theyve all be ripped out.
Blackrock is next, there will be 4 barriers
4 are accessible from the waiting room side door (the far end one next to the ramp to the bridge), only 2 are accessible from the second door
Tara Street northbound is next on the list, if they place a line of 6 or 7 turnstilies in the vacant area at the bottom of the stairs it should go down very well and speed up exit
Time and time again its people not having there ticket ready which is holding up the system
Are you sure its not 3 plus 3? Someone told me they are staggered. Maybe not.
Perhaps better signage reminding people to have their ticket ready is needed. It'll take a while for the mindset to change.
Are you sure its not 3 plus 3? Someone told me they are staggered. Maybe not.
Perhaps better signage reminding people to have their ticket ready is needed. It'll take a while for the mindset to change.
I was there yesterday, it looked staggered alright, 3 + 3 as you say.
Mark Gleeson
12-10-2006, 08:46
The next station is Tara Street, mind the gap between the train and the platform please have your ticket ready for inspection.........
I was there yesterday, it looked staggered alright, 3 + 3 as you say.
I am yet to see how that is going to work. It just makes fare evasion easier from what I have seen.
The next station is Tara Street, mind the gap between the train and the platform please have your ticket ready for inspection.........
Yeah and just some signage/announcements on the way down the stairs.
I havent used them yet, tell me, do they take the tickets?
Mark Gleeson
12-10-2006, 09:59
Well the 29000 units have been slowly driving us mad with the have your ticket ready pa
Its standard practice to retain the ticket. me thinks a field trial is justified
Terrontress
17-10-2006, 08:26
It seems that there is one barrier left open in Lansdowne every morning with a piece of paper on it stating "Not in service".
What's the point in putting up the barriers if they are not going to turn them on?
And what is the point in people using those which have been switched on if they can just saunter through the open one.
I experienced manual ticket exit validation in person on Sunday evening.
Seapoint DART station has no ticket machine and no ticket office after it closes. Got the train to Tara and came down the stairs. Told yer man that I got on at Seapoint and wanted to get the luas to Hesuton. He hesisitated so I gave him 2 euro and he gave me 5 cent change. Is that the way it happens? no ticket, no receipt, just change from the checkers pocket?
How will the exit validation machines do this?
Mark Gleeson
18-10-2006, 21:31
Seapoint is fun at night, normally when the ticket checker is faced with the werid ticket they point you towards the ticket office to sort it out
Interesting who a smartcard would deal with this
Maynooth_Line
19-10-2006, 16:47
And what if you got on at Broombridge? :rolleyes:
Maybe get on at seapoint and off at broombridge, for free:D
Mark Gleeson
21-10-2006, 20:26
Blackrock is now on line with 4 gates
James Shields
26-10-2006, 00:44
I passed through Tara St tonight. As mentioned earlier, the old-style turnstyles have been ripped out. There is now a row of new about 8 new-style gates at the bottom of the escalator/stairs to the northbound platform, perpendicular to the way the gates were before. It's not entirely clear where the gates for the southbound platform will go.
The gates all currently carry signs stating that they arenot in service.
Expect mass confusion on the first day they switch the new gates on!
I was there last night James. Will be interesting to note if the machines will continue in line right along the foyer in front of the O'Reilly's window or what. There obviously isnt that much room at the foot of the southbound escalator.
Does anyone know if the EV machines are in place in the new Townsend Street exit? Opening date for that actually??
For anyone that doesnt know what the machines look like when turned on:
343
Dont ask me why there are two green arrows on the lefthand machine..
Donal Quinn
26-10-2006, 15:44
maybe i've misunderstood but
isn't putting barriers at the bottom of an escalator a bit dangerous?
if two people get confused then the crowd coming down has nowhere to go???
James Shields
26-10-2006, 20:37
maybe i've misunderstood but
isn't putting barriers at the bottom of an escalator a bit dangerous?
if two people get confused then the crowd coming down has nowhere to go???
There's a fairly bi gap at the bottom of the stairs/escalator (there are only "up" escalators in Tara St). Continuing the line right across the station would seem to make sense. That's more or less the way a lot of London Underground stations do it.
Incidently, itcould just be my perception, but the IE barriers feel slower than the LU ones. On the tube, if you have your ticket ready, you can insert the ticket, catch it as it spits out the top and keep walking through the barrier without breaking stride.
Incidently, itcould just be my perception, but the IE barriers feel slower than the LU ones. On the tube, if you have your ticket ready, you can insert the ticket, catch it as it spits out the top and keep walking through the barrier without breaking stride.
I have only used the new barriers for entry but I did notice that, I was in a rush (DART at platform) and was trying to run. That two seconds was too long. London and Paris you can just keep walking. Once again IE existing technology and do it half arsed. Well done IE, you've kept up your standard. :mad:
Colm Donoghue
27-10-2006, 10:47
Had a good look at the tara st barriers today.
For people exiting from the southbound platform, Zig-zag down the stairs, pass the glass wall beside the shop, cross across people going up to the platform, turn back on themselves through the exit machines.
I think some of the machines should have been where the glass wall is outside th efront of the shop.
It also looks narrow to get to the exit machines, resulting in people bunching.
a Serial in Parallell out scheme is never optimal for people queueing. parallel in/ parallel out like on the other platform side is best.
robdrysdale
27-10-2006, 12:39
I've a colleague who has stumbled onto a serious (for him anyway) problem with the new Exit Validation?
He starts his journey in the morning on a feeder bus in Portmarnock, on which he pays an integrated fare to Blackrock. When he arrives in Blackrock he can't get through the gates (due to a Dublin Bus paper ticket that the machine can't take)?
Did IE think about this problem?
Mark Gleeson
27-10-2006, 12:43
This was an obvious thing that would catch the system out, few of us even know that ticket exists
Blackrock can issue a ticket for the following day for the journey or maybe the bus driver should be given a stack of use once exit tickets and issue them to rail users
Thats actually too simple, must write to Joe Meagher in DB so
I had thought about that. I sometimes get a ticket on the Feeder to Blackrock and leave at Tara....
Maybe CIE will do something right and start putting ticket machines at bus stops. :rolleyes:
Mark Gleeson
05-11-2006, 20:39
It doesn't retain single tickets, I checked
It doesn't retain single tickets, I checked
I was actually about to post that. I used the exit side today and was shocked to see it doesn't retain tickets.
Seriously IE, you have surpassed yourselves here. You have take off the shelf technology and made a balls of it. Well done, you're not getting there, you're going back in time.
I'm pretty sure it ate the ticket I bought from the ticket office, but returned the one from the TVM.... although that was a number of weeks ago... maybe it has changed?
As the TVM's don't issue receipts, I'd have them if they didn't return the ticket!
Mark Gleeson
06-11-2006, 14:37
I'm pretty sure it ate the ticket I bought from the ticket office, but returned the one from the TVM.... although that was a number of weeks ago... maybe it has changed?
As the TVM's don't issue receipts, I'd have them if they didn't return the ticket!
Exactly correct, I had a TVM ticket.
In many cases the ticket has use after leaving the station eg valid on feeder bus and intercity passengers can break their journey
Only booking office can issue a receipt, from my experience the legal guys in IE are very on the ball in terms of legal matters on ticket sales, max coin change etc so it figures
Mine was from the TVM too. But still, how hard is it to get simple things right?
They are actually fast for exiting, you don't have to wait for the doors to close so if you are in a queue they are very quick. They seem to take a long time to read a counter bought ticket and open the doors though.
I agree they are much quicker than the old style ones, but it really negates their use by keeping the gate open between passengers. Look at Clontarf Road at 8:30am when a Northbound Dart arrives... everyone just walks through.
Not that I'm complaining! I'm still all for an open-system.
(oh, and I'm not 100% sure it retained the ticket office ticket... it was a few weeks ago when the barriers were first introduced, and I was 1/2 asleep)
Mark Gleeson
06-11-2006, 15:08
Legally the setup is correct, either way it has no impact on the system. Keeping the ticket means very little, since the ticket won't allow you enter or exit again
I've had no problems with normal booking office issued tickets, unlimited tickets eg monthly are always faster on entry (no need to print on rear) but no different on exit to singles/returns
The question becomes what happens if the machine fills up with used tickets what does it do, shut down for exit or simply not retain the ticket ?
Legally the setup is correct, either way it has no impact on the system. Keeping the ticket means very little, since the ticket won't allow you enter or exit again
Keeping the ticket means a lot. It makes it simpler for people. As I keep saying, a disabled elephant can understand this, why can't IE?
I've had no problems with normal booking office issued tickets, unlimited tickets eg monthly are always faster on entry (no need to print on rear) but no different on exit to singles/returns
They didn't print on the rear of the tickets I have used in Blackrock (2 now). They are just slow. A disabled elephant could sketch an escher picture quicker.
The question becomes what happens if the machine fills up with used tickets what does it do, shut down for exit or simply not retain the ticket ?
That is a tough one. The disabled elephant empties them once, maybe more per day depending on how big the bin is and how busy the station is. I have no idea how IE could get over a conundrum like this. It has baffled other transport operators for years too. Oh wait, no, they keep the tickets in other countries.
Colm Donoghue
07-11-2006, 14:45
The question becomes what happens if the machine fills up with used tickets what does it do, shut down for exit or simply not retain the ticket ?
The tickets get stored and dumped on the track in Donabate.
some get scattered around the car parks too....:rolleyes:
The machines at Blackrock do not keep tickets, TVM or ticket office issued. I checked today.
I am actually impressed. IE have managed to make a mess of something that other operators have done for years. They truely are one of the, if not the, worst rail operator in the developed world. Give yourselves a pat on the back lads but don't get too comfortable. There is a disabled elephant who is coming for your jobs.
IE have managed to make a mess of something that other operators have done for years.
I'm not a fan of Exit Validation at all, but I don't see too many problems with the way IE have implemented it. I (along with plenty of others) DON'T want it to retain my ticket.
Mark Gleeson
08-11-2006, 10:42
To be honest who cares if it keeps the ticket? It in no way impacts on the systems functionailty the entire point of exit validation is to ensure you have a valid ticket it works. The machines are provided by one of the world leaders in revenue collection so its decent kit
What we do know is it can keep tickets, we also know there is sound legal reasons for not retaining the tickets owing to the right to obtain a receipt
There are two very good reasons which it should keep tickets. One is that is speeds up exit because people just walk through and forget about their tickets. The second is, seeing as this is Ireland, it will clean up the areas around train stations by denying people the chance to drop their tickets on the ground as soon as they leave.
packetswitch
08-11-2006, 11:42
As far as I remember a single on the Underground in London is retained by the exit validator. However, when you buy a ticket from a machine, you have an option to print a receipt at the same time. For times when I've wanted to 'keep the ticket' (i.e. for an expenses claim), this has been fine.
There are two very good reasons which it should keep tickets. One is that is speeds up exit because people just walk through and forget about their tickets. The second is, seeing as this is Ireland, it will clean up the areas around train stations by denying people the chance to drop their tickets on the ground as soon as they leave.
Beaten to it. Thanks Mark, that is exactly what I was going to say. :)
The other problem is the slowness of entry. Far slower than London or Paris.
http://www.franklinandrews.com/projects/?mode=type&id=24423
http://www.scheidt-bachmann.com/content/blogcategory/171/180/
http://www.needham-group.com/cocoon/needham/fare/gates.html
http://www.scheidt-bachmann.com/images/stories/fahrausweis/references%20Fare%20Collection%20Systems.pdf
(Page 19 and 20)
Ho, ho, ho, those canny designers/engineers sure have a sense of humour in the F&A picture above. They obviously aren't familiar with the IE design philosophy covering ease of movement within stations. If only we could have a DART station with that number of gates lined up directly facing an entrance/exit *and* the access to the platforms.
z
shweeney
14-11-2006, 15:02
noticed that IE have installed ducting all around the platform entrances in Connolly (ie where the waiting seats in the concourse are now) so looks like a whole load of turnstiles are going in there.
noticed that IE have installed ducting all around the platform entrances in Connolly (ie where the waiting seats in the concourse are now) so looks like a whole load of turnstiles are going in there.
I suspect they've realised that they need more of them in bigger stations. It would be good if they get the city centre correct.
I noticed in the morning that most people get off at GCD with huge queues every day. I have never been in that station but something needs to be done with it.
Thomas J Stamp
14-11-2006, 15:33
I have never been in that station but something needs to be done with it.
Why havent you? You're a disgrace.
Mark Gleeson
14-11-2006, 15:42
People still fumbling for tickets is a real hold up on the operation you can see it clearly in Lansdowne, the queue getting out has actually reduced since exit validation went in
There always was a queue out of GCD even before the exit validation went in, station was never designed for the numbers it now takes
Tara Street has been set up with at least 15 turnstiles, you will infact be able to exit quicker if arriving from the southside since you will exit via 8 turnstiles at the bottom of the stairs directly to outside avoiding the right and left turn and any passengers heading up to the platform which currently which slows things down
Why havent you? You're a disgrace.
I apologize to the group. I have a confession. There are many train stations I know nothing about. I am not the gricer I profess to be. I apologize. :D
Tara Street has been set up with at least 15 turnstiles, you will infact be able to exit quicker if arriving from the southside since you will exit via 8 turnstiles at the bottom of the stairs directly to outside avoiding the right and left turn and any passengers heading up to the platform which currently which slows things down
Now, Tara st. is one that no thought went into. I have difficulty getting to the southbound Platform in the mornings as the people leaving the platform have to walk across the people trying to get to the Platform.
IE, I know this is probably over your heads but if you swap the entry and exit points for the southbound platform, people would flow in and out a lot faster. As they will not be crossing paths anymore.
Thomas J Stamp
14-11-2006, 15:51
IE, I know this is probably over your heads but if you swap the entry and exit points for the southbound platform, people would flow in and out a lot faster. As they will not be crossing paths anymore.
Typical post from a P11 committee member - telling those saints in IE what to do. Dont you know they sweat blood on your behalf? You're a right arrogant so-and-so.
Typical post from a P11 committee member - telling those saints in IE what to do. Dont you know they sweat blood on your behalf? You're a right arrogant so-and-so.
That makes me a sad panda. ;)
Someone in work this morning tried to board a train in Blackrock but found that none of the ticket validators would accept her ticket. They were all set to exit-only until the train arrived and people got off the train. Has anyone heard of that happening before? Seems a little odd when there are 6 of them in that station.
Someone in work this morning tried to board a train in Blackrock but found that none of the ticket validators would accept her ticket. They were all set to exit-only until the train arrived and people got off the train. Has anyone heard of that happening before? Seems a little odd when there are 6 of them in that station.
There are 4 of them in the station and it is a mess. When I was leaving Blackrock this morning they were all open so anyone could walk through. Not sure if it changes at the time of day or what. From What I have seen of IE exit validation, it is a complete mess and they should go back to the drawing board.
I am nearly certain the machine at blackrock kept my ticket today. I put it in, waited a second and the barrier was open so I walked through. Either the machines are slow (and broken) or they are going to start keeping tickets.
If they do keep tickets, thank you IE. :)
Colm Donoghue
23-11-2006, 11:13
Tara st online this morning.
stupid system has entering and exiting passengers crossing.
Also wife's ticket doesn't scan any more. guys in ticket office us to either Connolly or Abbey st. to get a replacement.
I thought you could get a replacement in your local station, or even at a stretch the "busiest station in Dublin" but no you can get it is a place not served by trains, or Connolly (allegedly)
Tara st online this morning.
stupid system has entering and exiting passengers crossing.
I meant to mention Tara st. went online.
I posted somewhere how they could alleviate the passenger crossing a bit by swapping where people enter and exit, maybe they'll learn simple route planning one day.
Theres always kind of a settling in / trial period in this circumstances. Dont worry about it now but if it persists in a week or so we'll look into it.
Were the new automatic doors at the bottom of the northbound platform operating?
Mark Gleeson
23-11-2006, 12:11
Also wife's ticket doesn't scan any more. guys in ticket office us to either Connolly or Abbey st. to get a replacement.
I thought you could get a replacement in your local station, or even at a stretch the "busiest station in Dublin" but no you can get it is a place not served by trains, or Connolly (allegedly)
Protocol is that you complete a form with your details you hand that in at your local station you then come back a few days later surrender your ticket and they give you the replacement.
Thats the theory and if it works like that you really can't fault it, I'll see if I can track down the form
(excuse jumping in for my first post, I don't know if there's some protocol whereby you're obliged to introduce yourself or anything)
so, I have a question regarding this exit validation. I use tara street sometimes, thought not on my regular commute. I have an annual bus/rail ticket which is almost a year old and the magnetic strip is worn, it doesn't validate on buses, or on entry validation - so I assume it's not going to work on exit either. is there a gate where you can show your ticket to the bloke in the cap as well as the auto gates?
Yeah there's a kiosk in the middle. Itll be slower but no probs as long as you have a valid ticket.
There are 4 of them in the station and it is a mess. When I was leaving Blackrock this morning they were all open so anyone could walk through. Not sure if it changes at the time of day or what. From What I have seen of IE exit validation, it is a complete mess and they should go back to the drawing board.
I arrive in Blackrock a bit before 10 every morning (or up to 10 past given the cr*p Dart service the last couple of weeks). Since the exit validation went live, some or all exits have been open more than half the time. I've given up having my ticket ready since I don't need it more often than not.
Any idea how you're supposed to get out if you arrive and your ticket doesn't scan and the guy in the kiosk is off on one of his 'buy your ticket from the vending machine' naps?
I arrive in Blackrock a bit before 10 every morning (or up to 10 past given the cr*p Dart service the last couple of weeks). Since the exit validation went live, some or all exits have been open more than half the time. I've given up having my ticket ready since I don't need it more often than not.
I have the same issue.
Any idea how you're supposed to get out if you arrive and your ticket doesn't scan and the guy in the kiosk is off on one of his 'buy your ticket from the vending machine' naps?
I reckon shout and make a scene or jump the railing. There is no other option.
Colm Donoghue
24-11-2006, 09:11
They've given up on Tara today.
I used a different machine today in Blackrock and it did not take my ticket....
I didn't use a machine in Tara today though as they were dead. I wonder if you use a single in a new machine twice (entry and exit) does it keep it?
I had my second experience of these wonderful machines last night. None out of three machines in Blackrock station would accept my ticket (didn't try the fourth)
Was this because:
1) I bought my ticket from the machine in Tara
2) The ticket was not validated on entry at Tara
3) CIE don't like me?
p.s. noises from Thomas the Tanked Up Engine or something coming out of them.
shweeney
01-12-2006, 14:36
"Exit validation coming soon" signs are up in Connolly.
they also have a stall for people with faulty annual tickets to fill our a form for a replacement.
There were people fighting with all 4 machines in Blackrock today. Oddly my ticket worked, probably because it wasn't validated in Tara.
I am now 90% certain the machines do not retain used tickets.
The roll out / implementation of them has been a complete mess leaving customers confused.
IE, can you contact me? I have some projects I need managed and I would like to hire the same drunk 4 year old you used for this.
Yesterday morning (1000ish) all the machines at Blackrock & Clontarf Road were out of action. I presumed there was some sort of upgrade going on.
In terms of how to get out when the tickets don't swipe - I *strongly hope* that the barriers can be easily opened when there is a power failure or . . . say . . . fire which has knocked out the electrics. This would be especially usefull in Clontarf Road where they have a habit of blocking the fire exit with the sun-screen - you know the one that looks like a roll-down shutter.
z
Mark Gleeson
01-12-2006, 17:08
It the event of a power failure or the fire alarm activating the gates will open automatically
Mark Hennessy
01-12-2006, 17:19
What happens if you arrive sans ticket after getting on at somewhere like Broomebridge?
There were people fighting with all 4 machines in Blackrock today. Oddly my ticket worked, probably because it wasn't validated in Tara.
Was it machine generated or from the ticket office?
There were people fighting with all 4 machines in Blackrock today.
Who won?
"Exit validation coming soon" signs are up in Connolly.
they also have a stall for people with faulty annual tickets to fill our a form for a replacement.
On the wall outside Connolly in the IFSC there is a pp application for upgrading works to the foyer in Connolly. Cant remember what but something about a mezzanine level above where the seats are and relocating the toilets.
They could relocate those toilets to hell and even that would be an iimprovement!
I am now 90% certain the machines do not retain used tickets.
Who cares if they retain tickets or not? It does't affect the quality of the service, I've been on lots of different metro systems some retain tickets some don't, I even used to keep old ticket stubs as souveniers from different cities I'd visted.
I really think its a non issue, there certainly is more immediate problems that IE need to be made address, then the collection of old tickets.
Mark Gleeson
01-12-2006, 19:45
Exactly who cares once it opens the door to let you out
I posted more or less the same thing a while back http://forum.platform11.org/showpost.php?p=13105&postcount=89
It has no impact on the performance or efficiency of the system, the ticket won't work again anyway
Tara Street isn't finished yet but the northbound side is ace its as good a implementation as you will find for exit validation
Who cares if they retain tickets or not? It does't affect the quality of the service, I've been on lots of different metro systems some retain tickets some don't, I even used to keep old ticket stubs as souveniers from different cities I'd visted.
I really think its a non issue, there certainly is more immediate problems that IE need to be made address, then the collection of old tickets.
Having to take your ticket slows you down, it is an inconvinience. IE do have bigger problems, this was remarkabley simple, just to make it easier for people but no, not in IE land. As was pointed out above, it will keep the stations cleaner too.
As for "The system works" have you ignored the posts about people not being able to get out through the machines? They don't even work well.
It was a machine bought ticket that I used that let me out.
I think the machines won the fight, people couldn't get out.
luasifer
24-12-2006, 01:24
there is quite an amount of these barriers set up in Connolly now. last time I saw they were not in operation. It looks to be set up well. my only worry would be that there will be congestion as people will tend not to go over to the barriers at the toilet side as they are further away.
Perhaps a setup of 4 in, 4 out, 4 in, 4 out across the row of 16 barriers would work well
Colm Moore
27-12-2006, 01:33
Who cares if they retain tickets or not?People who need them for expenses claims.
James Shields
27-12-2006, 23:39
Perhaps a setup of 4 in, 4 out, 4 in, 4 out across the row of 16 barriers would work well
Generally speaking you need more "out" than "in" because people going "in" arrive in dribs and drabs, while people going "out" will arrive a trainload at a time.
In the morning rush, there would probably only be a need for about 2 "in" barriers, while lots of "out" barriers are a must.
In the evenings there should probably be more "in" barriers, but it probably still doesn't need to be as much as 50%.
Rushed2nowhere
28-12-2006, 16:14
Passed through Connolly yesterday.Where do people waiting for a train sit down if there train isn't in the station yet?
shweeney
02-01-2007, 15:48
Passed through Connolly yesterday.Where do people waiting for a train sit down if there train isn't in the station yet?
there's still some seats around the edge of the concourse - not many though.
Mark Gleeson
03-01-2007, 16:59
There is now a separate area for Enterprise passengers on your right as you walk across the concourse
My new annual ticket (suckered for another year) is sporadically working. It worked OK on the bus home New Year's Eve (I think), failed to work in the old turnstiles in Killester on Tues morning, kept saying wrong way up although I tried every way.
Worked fine in the new machines in Blackrock Tuesday evening.
Arrived in Blackrock this afternoon, there was another guy repeatedly trying his ticket in different turnstiles, no joy. Mine didn't work either. We were both there trying to get the tickets to work for a couple of minutes while the guy in the ticket booth was standing staring into space. Presumably communicating with the mother ship. Eventually I shouted at him, and he pushed a button to let us out.
Not sure what kind of ticket the other guy had, but is there a problem with some combination of new/old turnstiles accepting new/old tickets?
For those who need to submit DART tickets as expense claims:
The ticket vending machines should be able to offer a printed receipt (on a ticket) (same as a carpark machine does)
Likewise, the ticket desks could easily issue a receipt
They have cash registers?
The machines absolutely should retain used tickets.
The volume of used DART single/return tickets around where we live is absolutely disgraceful. People just deposit them in front gardens, on the pavement, in drains etc..
IE do provide bins, but sadly some people are just incapable of using them.
From e-tenders:
"Iarnród Éireann (IÉ) has introduced new entry/exit validation gate systems in 8 commuter stations in the Dublin area during 2006. The system supports magnetic central stripe ticketing and is smartcard enabled. There is an existing entry validation system operating in most other commuter stations.
To further improve revenue protection and safety within the rail network, IÉ wishes to expand the new entry/exit validation system within the Greater Dublin Area (GDA). A shortlist of ten stations is to be considered for the purposes of this study."
Mark Gleeson
30-01-2007, 11:32
I don't get the 8
Clontraf Rd
Connolly (not working)
Tara Street (does the unopened Townsend Street station count as well ?)
Grand Canal Dock
Lansdowne Rd
Blackrock
Am I missing something ?
The new gates are networked up to a local computer with touch screen which looks overly clever for just mag stripe
There is a smartcard trial underway but no one knows that, that would explain why the new turnstiles have been switched on and off frequently
packetswitch
30-01-2007, 17:37
Tara Street (does the unopened Townsend Street station count as well ?)
The what?
Mark Gleeson
30-01-2007, 17:46
There is a second station entrance underneath the platforms of Tara Street, head down Townsend Street and when you walk under the bridge look for the gate with no parking on it which is set back from the street, its there
Its all complete, fitted out with barriers and signs but strangely still not open
James Shields
30-01-2007, 21:30
Maybe they've already been fitted in Docklands as well? Just a guess...
Colm Moore
04-02-2007, 03:31
Maybe they've already been fitted in Docklands as well? Just a guess...Is is planned - for the future. They (I think 8) haven't been "introduced" yet.
Colm Donoghue
05-02-2007, 14:00
On Saturday, A few friends and I got train into Tara from R&L.
R&L station was closed so I presumed we'd buy tickets in Tara.
Got in anyway about 7or 8 minutes late.
Got off in tara. we were at the back of the train so got off first.
the exit validation gates were on so I got out ok.
Friends had to buy tickets of the guys. So the inspector has to:
get out pen
write ticket
stop to ask other inspector how much ticket is.
finish writing ticket
take money,
give change,
give friendA his ticket
So friendA is standing there, with his paid ticket looking at a closed gate.
"Do I put this non-magnetic ticket into the machine or what?"
"No that wont work in the machine." pause. Inspector gives smartcard to security guy standing about a yard away. Security guy waves smartcard gate opens, security gives smartcard back to inspector. Friend A gets out.
FriendB waits for inspector to write ticket ....
...
...
FriendC has his turn. has a fiver for a 3.70 ticket. tells inspector to keep change and just let him out. "No I can't do that here is your 13 ten cent coins instead wait 'til I count them out very slowly." (this may be made up not a real quote)
Eventually we get out while the crowd of about 50 people wait behind us.
We go into O'Reilly's, get stout and after it has settled, we see people still queuing to get out of the station. I notice the 4 ticket machines are unused because they are outside the barriers.
Oh yeah Rush&Lusk station is allegedly staffed til 9pm on a Saturday according to IE, even though at 8:20 it was closed. which would have prevented this jam.
James Shields
06-02-2007, 11:26
If IE are serious about exit validation, they will have to make it possible to buy a proper ticket at every station you could be coming from. Then, if you get to Tara St with no ticket, it's a penalty fare. Otherwise everyone can say they got on at Broombridge.
Colm Donoghue
06-02-2007, 11:50
IE aren't serious though.
If their stations aren't staffed when they are advertised to be staffed, how can you expect any better?
It was live at 10:10 last night. I know because I abandoned my ticket in the machine:D
James Shields
07-02-2007, 08:01
Yes, went through last night. Seemed to go quite smoothly - except the former ticket checkers kept having to tell people entering the station to use the machines with the green arrows, not the ones with the red Xs.
2Funki4Wheelz
07-02-2007, 10:55
except the former ticket checkers kept having to tell people entering the station to use the machines with the green arrows, not the ones with the red Xs.
How do people that dumb not hurt themselves more often? :D
Colm Donoghue
07-02-2007, 11:38
It was live at 10:10 last night. I know because I abandoned my ticket in the machine:D
'twas off this morning
Maybe they are only operating off peak to start off with, would make sense.
One thing I find confusing is that the machines are all for right handed people!:D
Colm Donoghue
07-02-2007, 12:04
as are the old machines.
Colm Moore
08-02-2007, 14:07
How do people that dumb not hurt themselves more often? :DHumans are intelligent, people are stupid.
Note how if a crowd of people are exiting a room through double doors, most will use the same door leaf, ignoring the other one. Sheep.
Note how if a crowd of people are exiting a room through double doors, most will use the same door leaf, ignoring the other one. Sheep.
This could be intelligence. Physics. If the door is already open it takes less energy to go through.....
Colm Moore
12-02-2007, 03:30
This could be intelligence. Physics. If the door is already open it takes less energy to go through.....But more time and energy waiting. :p
Mark Gleeson
12-02-2007, 09:57
It went live Connolly and Tara Street this morning
There where notices up on trains over the weekend
shweeney
12-02-2007, 10:31
yeah signs all over Connolly this morning - "Exit validation starting Feb 12" and "Exit validation in operation - please have your ticket ready"
and was it actually operating?
was it f**k! - all the turnstiles were open with "Not in use" signs on them, and as an added bonus there was no-one checking tickets at the gate either...
shweeney
13-02-2007, 10:01
and again this morning - no exit validation, no ticket checking.
order machines - check
install machines - check
put up loads of posters - check
right, jobs a good 'un, let's go home
lads! you need to turn the machines on!!
has it been used in connolly yet?,each time i've gone through it hasn't been in use,yet friends tell me they've used it
The validators seem to be working in Tara Street, have you noticed the sound effects when you put in your ticket or when the separator moves across to let you pass though? Train sounds, coo coos and all that? Bit cute I have to say. :)
Mark Gleeson
13-02-2007, 11:53
The sound triggers if you are too quick after the person in front
As soon as the ticket of the person in front is taken out insert yours and only pass through when the person in front is clear of the turnstile
Colm Donoghue
13-02-2007, 12:16
Mark, It shouldn't be necessary to alter customer behavior with these gates. They should have been designed to work quicker than people could pass through.
Another mark of the efficiency of these machines is the fact there are now twice as many ticket checkers working at Tara in the mornings as when there was no machines.
Is the second exit in Tara opened yet? Cos the only exit signs visible on the platform point to the closed exits and have for a few months now.
Mark Gleeson
13-02-2007, 12:19
The idea is to catch people coat tailing on other passengers to sneak through
No word on the second exit
Colm Donoghue
13-02-2007, 13:46
I've seen two gates used to stop this elsewhere. or a turnstile...
Yea, the train noise is quite funny... you get it non-stop at Clontarf Road in the morning... combination of people trying to get through too quickly, and people with tickets that can't be arsed sticking them in the machine.. people just walk through...
How long do they actually stay open? About 2 weeks ago the person in front of me went through.. the machine wouldn't accept my ticket (it WAS valid), but after 3 attempts I just gave up and walked through the already open gate...
Colm Donoghue
14-02-2007, 08:31
this morning in tara, put my ticket in, it came out the top, walked into a shut exit gate. wouldn't open til I stepped back to try put my ticket in again.
shweeney
16-02-2007, 10:58
well, they've managed to get through the whole week in Connolly without turning them on. On Wednesday evening there were 5 (five) guys standing at the gate and none of them were checking tickets.
well, they've managed to get through the whole week in Connolly without turning them on. On Wednesday evening there were 5 (five) guys standing at the gate and none of them were checking tickets.
They were on for a few hours at lunchtime on Wednesday. There were plenty of staff (three customer service and two security guards) to help and it seems to work okay except for the constant cho-cho sound whenever a group of people went through. They were firmly off and out-of-order notices on all of them a few hours later.
On a side note, I'm glad they put loads of machines into Connolly, it's a huge improvement over the old joke of a system but I'm not sure it's the best design. Since most of the people using them will be for Dart/Suburban platforms, everyone tends to enter and exit using the 3-4 at the side. I'm not sure how well that's going to work when a big crowd of people try to leave at the same time, the trains were fairly quiet when I was there.
Colm Donoghue
16-02-2007, 13:06
In tara they have 4 or 5 to exit and 4 to enter to get onto the Southbound platform. I would have thought they should hae more to exit as people exit in a burst rather than enter a station.
On the other hand the bottleneck of exiting down a winding stair may reduce the need for more exit gates.
Colm Donoghue
23-02-2007, 10:30
Yesterday and today, the exit gates didn't open when I took my ticket back out of the exit gate.
Yesterday I bursted into the gate walking on, while today I decided to wait til the gate opened before proceeding but had to wait til the woman behind me put her ticket through to open the gate.
What is the story with these?
Am I stoopid for assuming you can just pass through at normal walking speed?
Is this unreasonable?
I don't remember this happening in Paris or London at exit gates.
Is this another IE snafu?
Mark Gleeson
02-03-2007, 15:57
They have a booth set up in Connolly even with a queuing system where fines are doled out
Of course I boarded in Broombridge should see you sail through
None of these systems are perfect. The London Underground system is glitchy at times. It's a case of getting used to the quirks.
E.g. I was going through the barriers with an oyster card in london. The lady ahead of me had put a paper ticket in and started to walk through. Her ticket hadn't actually worked, and I touched my oyster card to the sensor just as her ticket came out. Turned out the machine had read my oyster card, and let her through!
I then couldn't get in as it wouldn't open the barriers twice for the same oyster card until a certain time period has elapsed.
I haven't found the DART barriers any worse than anywhere else really.
The choo-choo noise is a little less harsh on the ears than a piercing beep though.
I do think they need to roll them out faster though. There's no point in having a half-rolled out system. There aren't that many stations on the DART network, they should *ALL* have the same barriers. 2 to 6 months would be more than adequate time to get it up and running.
Having various combinations of automatic barriers with or without exit validation, manual validation and open stations is a bit confusing to say the least.
My favourite ticket validation picture:
http://www.real-dublin.com/Images/seapoint.JPG
My phone says it was 10:47am on 3rd March 2007.:D
Mark Gleeson
13-05-2007, 20:42
Think the clock is handy in the background, 29/04/2007
510
luasifer
14-05-2007, 00:51
Considering none of the ticket machines in Dart stations acknowledge the existanceof the Kildare line what would happen if I went to one of these stations with such a sign in the hope of going to Kildare??
Would I have to buy individual Dart/Luas/Commuter to Kildare tickets at an extra cost to myself or could I say at Connolly to the inspector that there was nobody at xyz station to sell me the ticket which I wanted to purchase??
Or would I be fined in Connolly if I did this?
Mark Gleeson
14-05-2007, 07:36
Hazelhatch, Cherry Orchard and Clondalkin appear on the DART TVM's but the ticket isn't valid on the Luas compared to the one from the booking office. You would have to purchase in Connolly and its not a problem
Mark Hennessy
14-05-2007, 07:53
4 machines which had been working in the new exit at Tara St. were today covered in bubble wrap and out of use.
Broken already?
Mark Gleeson
15-05-2007, 13:07
Ticket vending machine issue moved to own thread http://forum.platform11.org/showthread.php?t=2467
luasifer
15-05-2007, 14:14
Ok I would also like to make a comment on the new ticket validation machines.
I observed these machines for a period of about 30 mins while waiting in Connolly recently. During this time a lot of people had a problem with which side to walk through when they put their ticket in, locals and tourists alike. There were many people putting the ticket in on the left side so they are then walking through the wrong gate.
This could easily be avoided if IE only had one green arrow illuminated on each gate. What I mean is that on top of each slot where you enter your ticket there is a green arrow pointing in both directions. Surely there should only be one arrow illuminated to tell you which way to walk in!! This is certainly the case in other places such as London etc.
Colm Donoghue
15-05-2007, 14:44
Luasifer, it's not an issue in places less exotic like Pearse station either....
Colm Donoghue
16-05-2007, 07:28
The brand new machines at Tara south exit are now reduced to one working machine, one with XX and the rest in bubble wrap and hazard tape......
Correct me if I am wrong.
You need a valid ticket to get onto the Platform / DART.
Not having one is illegal.
Paying at the other end is considered fare evasion and you must pay the "standard fare".
That station master in Seapoint / IE are complicit in illegal activities and should therefor be punished in our legal system.
I observed these machines for a period of about 30 mins while waiting in Connolly recently. During this time a lot of people had a problem with which side to walk through when they put their ticket in, locals and tourists alike. There were many people putting the ticket in on the left side so they are then walking through the wrong gate.
This could easily be avoided if IE only had one green arrow illuminated on each gate. What I mean is that on top of each slot where you enter your ticket there is a green arrow pointing in both directions. Surely there should only be one arrow illuminated to tell you which way to walk in!! This is certainly the case in other places such as London etc.
Yes, it doesn't look right at all. I don't think both arrows are supposed to be switched on.
I'm left handed and for some reason did that too without thinking about it and ended up invalidating my ticket at landsdown road on two occasions.
Why would it be any more obvious to someone that the ticket should to in on the right rather than on the left?!
Colm Donoghue
16-05-2007, 11:19
Given there's sensors to detect people in the gate anyway,
they could have been programmed to work as you say mrX.
just to see if anyone noticed, the last time i was on a train, i went through right behind my friend at the ticket validators at connolly. I had a ticket, but just walked straight through. there were two ticket checkers by the machines, but none noticed. I also boarded at coolmine, where the ticket office was closed (it was a sunday afternoon and i bought one from the tvm) and could quite easily have completed the journey without a ticket. easily.
You are defo right, I dont think both arrows are supposed to be on. It is certainly confusing.
Apparently between 8 and 15% of people are left handed. Perhaps we should have one dedicated left-handed exit validation gate? Or would that be deeming left-handed people disabled? kidding. If the Christian Brothers ran the railway...
Seriously though, with all the advantages in medical science you would think they would have found a cure by now... :D
Colm Donoghue
17-05-2007, 14:57
You are defo right, I dont think both arrows are supposed to be on. It is certainly confusing.
Apparently between 8 and 15% of people are left handed. Perhaps we should have one dedicated left-handed exit validation gate? Or would that be deeming left-handed people disabled? kidding. If the Christian Brothers ran the railway...
Seriously though, with all the advantages in medical science you would think they would have found a cure by now... :D
If the brothers ran the railways ther'd be no spelling mistakes.
Agus go deimhin, nÃ* bheadh aon litrú micheart....
Thomas J Stamp
17-05-2007, 15:42
as a left handed person (the women appreciate it you shower of right handed loosers) i find the damned things so confusing i always head to the one at the end!!!
Odd, I'm also one of the left handed elite but I haven't had any problems working out which side to go through
2Funki4Wheelz
17-05-2007, 16:10
Odd, I'm also one of the left handed elite but I haven't had any problems working out which side to go through
Elite.:rolleyes:
We need a poll on the amount of ciotógÃ* vs normal people.
Perhaps there's a disproportionately high amount in p11....
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