Clamping issue

[Jimbo]

Can anyone help me out here. I commute from Newbridge to Dublin Mon-Fri. I returned one evening to find my car clamped. I did have a valid parking ticket but it had obviously fallen on the ground. I called the clamper who was still in the car park and he took off the clamp but still had to pay even though I showed him the valid ticket. He said to write a letter to their offices about it which I did but they said that they couldn't do anything about it.
Anything I can do here? Seems very harsh when I did have a valid parking ticket.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you had a valid ticket, you had a valid ticket.

If the ticket had fallen from view the clamper was correct to clamp

http://www.ncps.ie/ file a formal complaint, then file one with Irish Rail

[Colm Moore]

I did have a valid parking ticket but it had obviously fallen on the ground.I don't wish to flame, and am genuinely interested in this. How do such tickets fall on the ground?

[Jimbo]

Victor,

The ticket is just placed on the windscreen and could easily slip off as it is not stuck on.
Thanks Mark - I know the clamper was correct to clamp as he couldn't see a ticket but I thought they'd refund me the fine when it was a genuine case of a ticket falling to the floor which the clamper verified.

[Mark Gleeson]

Given the clamper has admitted you had a ticket, there really is no question you should get your money. Can't blame him for doing his job

Call IE 703 44 99, they have subcontracted the service, you not happy and NCPS aren't playing ball. You could threaten to call your solicitor and see what happens

[Colm Moore]

Actually in case like this, an appeal will often result in a 50% refund of the clamping charge - assuming there isn't a pattern of "it fell on the floor".

[weary rushian]

I was also clamped in the same manner, ticket fell on the floor of the car, arriving home on a wet miserable Friday to find the dreaded clamp on my car. Sent off my appeal letter to NCPS to the address on the back of the unclamping notice, only for the letter to be returned to me by An Post marked " gone away" Phoned NCPS to be told by them that "the clamper must have been using an old fine book as they have moved" Not very sympathetic to my plight either! Needless to say I was (and still am) seething at their incompetence. So had to post it off again, I asked her would I have to wait 28 days for reply again and she said she would "put a note on the system so I would get a swift reply" Not holding my breath in anticipation. A friend from work clamped at different station last week, I phoned her to see what address she is sending her appeal to, and lo and behold it's the same "gone away" address. Is this a conspiracy by NCPS to put us off appealing? I am not hopeful of getting a refund after seeing original post, quite devastated to think I will have lost €125 because the clamping company issue very flimsy tickets, why can't they have ticket machines like the ones Dublin City Council have i.e. that you can actually stick onto your windscreen. Will keep the forum posted when (if) I get a reply from NCPS. I could be looking for advice as to my next move as I am prepared to take this further.

[Mark Gleeson]

For the benefit of others what are the

Good?

Bad?

Addresses

[chipper]

I was nearly caught out the same way last week when the ticket blew off the dashboard as I was closing the door. I just happened to spot it as I walked away. I now use a bit of blu-tack to hold the ticket in place.

[weary rushian]

Bad address: Port Tunnel Development, Willsborough Industrial Estate, Coolock, Dublin 17.

Good address: 6 Mount Street Crescent, Dublin 2

[Mark Gleeson]

Much appreciated

In light of some recent events it look like we need a clamping page on the website

[Colm Moore]

why can't they have ticket machines like the ones Dublin City Council have i.e. that you can actually stick onto your windscreen. Will keep the forum posted when (if) I get a reply from NCPS. I could be looking for advice as to my next move as I am prepared to take this further.

Dublin City Council changed their bye-laws, tickets and prodecures ... becuase people were saying "I stuck it on the window, but the window was was and it must have fallen off". So now you have to display it on the dash board or other prominant location.

[Mark Hennessy]

I have now heard reports of dodgy clampings going on in both Newbridge and Kildare stations, clamping folks who have paid like above.

We'll be needing that Clamping help page because we have unaccountable clampers operating on property of an an unaccountable property company that happen to operate trains.

[plant43]

I have now heard reports of dodgy clampers going to town in both Newbridge and Kildare stations, clamping folks who have paid like above.

We'll be needing that Clamping help page because we have unaccountable clampers operating on property of an an unaccountable property company that happen to operate trains.

Well there were three cars clamped in Newbridge yesterday evening - two had no tickets, and one had a ticket that had expired that morning.

One Saturday a couple of weeks back, fifteen cars were clamped.

[Mark Hennessy]

Well there were three cars clamped in Newbridge yesterday evening - two had no tickets, and one had a ticket that had expired that morning.

One Saturday a couple of weeks back, fifteen cars were clamped.

Nothing wrong with that, those folks had no valid tickets.

We have had reports of unjustified clamping though with folks who have had valid tickets.

[ccos]

Mark when you say xxxxx clampers are you refering to clampers other than NCPS are going around clamping in Newbridge and Kildare. Or are these xxxxx clampers employed by NCPS?

Thats avery leading question, why would you try to make somebody say something that could be misconstrued as libel????????????

[weary rushian]

Further to my post of 17/11/2008 have now heard back from the clamping company, saying they are not allowing my appeal. As I thought they would, they say it is my responsibility to have the ticket displayed in such a way as to be read by their operatives blah blah. Am still very upset at losing this money as I had a valid ticket. I am wondering can anyone advise me about taking this further? Also, as outlined in my first posting, the address to send my appeal to on the unclamping notice was wrong- I presume this does not invalidate it? (Really clutching at straws here!) Would really appreciate any advice offered, especially from Jimbo who was the first poster on this issue, and was in the same situation. Did you get any further Jimbo?

[Mark Gleeson]

We know of several complaints currently ongoing, some of what we are hearing is truely awful

However one issue arises as an ltd the registered address of the company must be on all invoices, correspondence etc. Use of out of date stationary particularly in a case where it prevented someone from contacting the company would get the back of the company registration office up

[Colm Moore]

Ask for their independent appeals procedure (if they have one).

[chris]

My tuppence-ha'penny worth: (which is not legal advice)

Displaying the ticket visibly will either be in the terms and conditions, or it will be implied into the contract on the basis of business efficacy.

What isn't clear is whether the signs warning you of clamping as the sanction are visible enough to imply this into the contract, since this could be viewed as an onerous term. As a general point, that would depend on each individual station. Of course, if you start admitting you knew you could be clamped for contravening the T&Cs, then it doesn't help you anyway...

Your best hope is to get them on the radio, make them seem unreasonable, and that will hopefully make all the law go away.

[Colm R]

we have unaccountable clampers operating on property of an an unaccountable property company that happen to operate trains.

Post of the year

[weary rushian]

Hi, me again! Am still raging over being clamped by NCPS at Rush & Lusk Station late last year, & despite 2 appeal letters and one from one of my local TDs, NCPS still refuse to refund my money. (Ticket fell off dashboard on very windy day) My question now is, have I exhausted all options open to me in trying to get refunded the €125 or does anyone know if this is the kind of thing that you could bring to the small claims court?

I know I sound like a dog with a bone but am still bristling at the unfairness of it all! Any advice greatly appreciated.

[Thomas Ralph]

You could certainly try the small claims court, but you'll need to hurry on. There's a twelve-month statute of limitations on most claims there.

[Mark Gleeson]

I'd agree with that, you can file online.

In a lot of cases the company doesn't bother to show up, generally resulting in a victory for the little guy

Just need to identify a article of consumer law which has been broken

[hoopsheff]

Just a quick question....under what laws do the clampers have a right to clamp your car? What is the basis (under the law) for the clamping? Is it to make u pay a fine (to unclamp your car) or is it for illegally parking your car (in which case it would seem that you are being punished twice for the same offence -clamping and a fine..which afaik is not legal)

the reason clampers get away with clamping (as far as i can see) is that nobody has challenged this in a court of law (not the small claims court)...and until such time as this happens they will get away with it. I'd imagine that if somebody threatened to do so they would quickly (and quietly) rescind any clamping fine- well thats my view anyways...based off basic law studies from first year college :D

[Mark Gleeson]

Its private property so they can set the rules.

Pay the correct charge such that the car has permission to be there or else you will be hit with a penalty

Where the games start is when the rules are not clearly stated within the car park or when the car park operator sets up the payment system to catch you out

[Thomas Ralph]

To hoopsheff: it's contract law. In consideration of them permitting you to park your car there, you agree to pay the fee, or to be clamped and pay the declamp charge if you break the rules.

Presumably if they then proceeded to seek a prosecution under the Housing Act or to sue you under the law of trespass for parking on private property, you could say there was a failure of consideration for the clamping agreement and demand that that money be refunded.

Of course the practical reason for clamping is to enforce payment. Since the car parks are unattended, if there was no deterrent there would be no incentive for anyone to pay. In Scotland, where clamping is illegal, privately-owned unattended car parks effectively don't exist.

[Colm Moore]

These car parks have the added benefit of the bye-laws.

[Thomas Ralph]

I don't think CIÉ's bylaws allow clamping (although I haven't read them lately). Veolia's, on the other hand, do.

[Colm Moore]

Ah, what I mean is its an specific offence to mis-park on CIÉ property, whereas in other car parks you are relying on the Housing Acts (prohibition on preventing an occupier from using their own property).

[Thomas Ralph]

Ah. Yes it is.

[Thomas Ralph]

And when I say the Housing Act, I mean section 19C of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994, as inserted by section 24 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 2002.