[Articles] DART Underground

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0811/1218232689921.htmlPlans for underground rail line for Dublin to go on public display
OLIVIA KELLY

THE ROUTE and station plans for the new underground rail line from Heuston Station to Dublin's Docklands, will be put on public display by Iarnród Éireann from tomorrow.

The line, which the company is calling an "underground Dart", will have just five stations along its 5.2km length, at Heuston, Christchurch, St Stephen's Green, Pearse Street and Docklands.

A spokesman for Iarnród Éireann said the company intends to apply for a railway order to build the underground line, which is a Transport 21 project, in autumn 2009 and hopes to complete the project in 2015. While he would not reveal the cost of the project, it has been estimated to be in the region of €2 billion.

The line is one of the most important elements of Transport 21, Iarnród Éireann said, as it will connect a number of services.

At Heuston the line will connect to the Luas Red line; at Stephen's Green it will be linked to the Luas Green line and the proposed Metro North; at Pearse Street it will connect with the Dart and commuter services; while at Docklands it will again connect with the Luas Red line. The Christchurch stop will see this area of the city connected to rail for the first time.

The new line will increase the capacity of Dart and commuter services from 33 million to more than 100 million on completion.

The company is beginning its public consultation phase with a series of four open information meetings to be held over the next two weeks. The meetings will be held by Iarnród Éireann staff between 5pm and 8pm on the following dates:

August 12th: Ashling Hotel, Parkgate Street, Dublin 8
August 13th: Central Hotel, Exchequer Street, Dublin 2
August 19th: St Mary's Youth Club, Strangford Road, Dublin 3
August 20th: Alexander Hotel, Merrion Square, Dublin 2

[Mark Gleeson]

We have had the expected dates in the members area since last Tuesday. As usual only a days public notice to the first event. RPA gave considerably more notice for Metro North

Just to note the Alexander Hotel is not on Merrion Square, its on Fenian Street. (Top of Westland Row, go left, pass Gingerman Pub on your left, Davenport Hotel on right, cross Cumberland Street, you have arrived at your destination)

[Mark Hennessy]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/downturn-will-not-affect-83642bn-plan-for--rail-tunnel-1452423.html




PLANS to build a €2bn underground DART tunnel through Dublin city centre will go ahead despite the economic downturn.

The Government has told Iarnrod Eireann that its plans for a 5.2km "interconnector" linking Heuston Station to the Dublin Docklands is to proceed as planned, and the project is expected to be delivered by its 2015 deadline -- a year after Metro North is completed.

Yesterday a spokesman for the rail company said the interconnector was the main priority over the coming years and it expected to seek planning permission in autumn 2009.

Physical work is expected to begin in late 2010, with a five-year construction timeframe.

There had been concerns that the project could have been delayed given the precarious state of the Government's finances. However, Iarnrod Eireann last night said it had been told to proceed as planned, and that it would be hosting four open days so the public could see the final route.

"DART Underground is a core part of Transport 21, and the Transport Minister and his Department have made it clear to us that the delivery of this project is their number one priority for Iarnrod Eireann. It's full steam ahead," the spokesman said.

"For such a crucial project for the public transport needs of the city, we want all those living along the route, and those who will benefit from it in the wider community, to be able to examine the plans, and see the service frequency and capacity benefits which will result. These public meetings are the first of many in the months ahead, to ensure that all have the opportunity to see the route, and have their say."

The interconnector, in effect a second DART line, will run underground through the heart of the city and link the Northern line to the Kildare line, with underground stops at Docklands, Pearse Station, St Stephen's Green, Christchurch and Heuston.

It will be a vital piece of infrastructure and will see the DART extended to the Northern, Maynooth and Kildare commuter lines and allow train users to travel from Cork to Belfast without leaving Iarnrod Eireann property.

Terminate

The first DART line will run from Maynooth/Pace to Connolly Station, Pearse Station, Bray and Greystones, while the second line will run from Howth/Northern Line and serve Clontarf Road, Docklands, Pearse, St Stephen's Green, Christchurch, Heuston and terminate in Hazelhatch.

Passenger numbers on DART and commuter services will increase from 33m today to over 100m on completion. It also links all rail modes -- DART, Commuter, Intercity, Luas and Metro -- to form an integrated cohesive network.

The information meetings take place on four dates from 5pm to 8pm. Today's meeting is in the Ashling Hotel on Parkgate St, while another will take place tomorrow at the Central Hotel on Exchequer Street.

Another two meetings are next week. The first on August 19 at St Mary's Youth Club on Strangford Road and the second the following day at the Alexander Hotel on Merrion Square.

- Paul Melia

[Colm Moore]

It will be a vital piece of infrastructure and will see the DART extended to the Northern, Maynooth and Kildare commuter lines and allow train users to travel from Cork to Belfast without leaving Iarnrod Eireann property.But, for such a trip, will the Luas Red Line still be the best way to get from Heuston to Connolly.

Should there be a "super stop" either on the Kildare and/or Northern lines to transfer from InterCity to local services?

For Enterprise services, is the main objection to the Dogheda stop (a) the stop / time delay or (b) the potential overcrowding?

[dowlingm]

Donabate would be a good candidate for a superstop if Enterprise, DART and Metro North (extended beyond a Lissenhall field) all served it.

[Mark Hennessy]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0813/1218477454427.html

Did Frank not write an article a few weeks back opposing this because of the loss of some trees in Stephens Green during construction?



IARNRÓD ÉIREANN is under "huge pressure" from the Department of Transport and politicians to make rapid progress in delivering an underground rail link between Dublin's Heuston and Docklands stations.

Project manager Peter Muldoon also said there was "not a peep that the project is being targeted for cuts" by the Government to trim public expenditure - even though it carries an estimated price tag of €2 billion.

Omagh-born Mr Muldoon, who spent most of his working life in the private sector, told The Irish Times he had made a full presentation of the "Dart underground" project to Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey last month.

"The Minister has told us that this is Iarnród Éireann's number one priority, because he wants to get it done," said the company's spokesman, Barry Kenny. "Every aspect of it is being pushed as well as being scrutinised by the department."

The latest plan is now out for public consultation, with meetings taking place over the next week. Tenders are also being prepared with a view to engaging a multidisciplinary team of consultants to take it forward as a public-private partnership (PPP) project.

Consultants are expected to be appointed later this month to prepare an environmental impact statement on the 5.2km (three miles) route, including the excavation of underground stations at Heuston, Christ Church Cathedral, St Stephen's Green, Pearse Station and Docklands.

At Christ Church, the intention is to excavate the amphitheatre of the Civic Offices to install a station there and also a green area on Cook Street just north of St Audoen's Catholic Church, to provide a second means of access to and from the station.

Mr Muldoon said four tunnel boring machines would be used to dig twin tunnels through limestone bedrock, with two starting from Docklands in the direction of St Stephen's Green while the other two would work their way from Heuston towards the Green.

The average depth of the tunnels would be 25 to 30 metres, each with an internal diameter of six metres - sufficiently wide to accommodate an eight-carriage Dart-type commuter train and the overhead 1,500-volt electricity wires.

Some of the tunnelling work, particularly for stations, would involve substantial cut-and-cover excavations and/or "mining" from the surface to minimise the impact at ground level. But Mr Muldoon conceded that there was bound to be some disruption to traffic.

At Heuston Station, two options are being considered. One would involve excavating an underground station beneath the old station hall, necessitating the closure of four platforms, or alternatively excavating part of the vast Guinness transport yard nearby.

Diageo plc, which owns Guinness, has serious concerns about the impact on its freight movements if the latter option was to be chosen.

But given that the company is rationalising its brewery at St James's Gate, Iarnród Éireann expects a "positive outcome". Mr Muldoon said the Civic Offices amphitheatre had been chosen to excavate the Christ Church station because it had already been "archaeologically resolved"; alternative locations in High Street were ruled out because the "risks were too great". He said the excavation would stop short of the old Viking city wall on Wood Quay, just three metres to the south. "We'll be carrying out an archaeological excavation in these areas [on the Civic Offices site and Cook Street] to make sure there are no surprises".

The Dart station at St Stephen's Green would be slotted in beneath the station planned by the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) for Metro North, which would require the excavation of the north-western corner of the Green, including removal of the Fusiliers Arch.

After starting out separately, Iarnród Éireann and the RPA have been holding bi-weekly project meetings over the past year to co- ordinate planning of this multi-level station. It is also likely that tracks for a Luas city centre link will be laid within the enclosure.

Mr Muldoon conceded that Iarnród Éireann's works would have a negative impact on the north side of the Green, facing Dawson Street and Kildare Street, and also on the north of Merrion Square, where an entrance/exit is planned for the station serving Pearse.

He emphasised that the huge cut-and-cover excavation for the Docklands underground station would have no impact on traffic that will be using a new bridge linking Macken Street with Guild Street, as it would all be done on vacant land to the east.

The twin tunnels would be bored some five metres beneath the bed of the river Liffey to take the underground trains to and from Docklands station, where there would also be a direct connection with the Luas extension from Connolly to the Point on Mayor Street.

Mr Muldoon said electrification of the rail lines to Maynooth and Hazelhatch (on the Kildare line) was "fundamental" to the project, though it is not included in the cost estimate. However, he stressed that there was "no fat in this programme whatsoever".

© 2008 The Irish Times

[Mark Hennessy]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0813/1218477454443.html



TWENTY ELECTRIC trains per hour - one every three minutes - would run through the planned tunnel linking Heuston Station with Docklands, according to Iarnród Éireann.

But the tunnel is intended not only to provide the missing link between Dart and suburban commuter rail services in Dublin; it will also transform services on the existing Dart line.

Dart trains originating in Bray or Greystones would terminate at Maynooth, while those originating in Howth or Malahide would run through the tunnel to Hazelhatch and, ultimately, Kildare.

Anyone wishing to travel from, say, Dún Laoghaire to Howth (or vice versa) would have to change at Pearse Station, Westland Row; the continuous service around Dublin Bay would cease.

One major benefit, according to Iarnród Éireann, is that the current bottleneck at Connolly Station would be freed up, enabling the company to provide a wider range of rail services.

Another major benefit - indeed, the raison d'etre for this €2 billion project - would be to bring an end to the historic isolation of Heuston Station, knitting it into a new suburban rail network.

The journey time between Heuston and Docklands would be less than 10 minutes, with just three intermediate stops - Christ Church, St Stephen's Green and Pearse Station, all roughly 1km apart.

Along the way, the Dart underground - as the company has branded it - would link up with the Tallaght Luas line at Heuston and Docklands as well as the Sandyford Luas line at St Stephen's Green.

"Every rail line into Dublin will see a massive increase in capacity from this project," according to Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny. "Without it, we would have guaranteed gridlock for evermore."

Resignalling at Connolly is intended to increase its throughput from 12 to 18 trains per hour in each direction, including the Maynooth line, but even this would be less than the interconnector's capacity.

The company forecasts that the number of peak-hour passengers using its commuter rail services in the Greater Dublin Area would increase almost threefold, from 22,000 now to 62,000 in 2020.

Mr Kenny said four-tracking the Kildare line as far as Hazelhatch - currently its biggest rail project, costing €350 million - would be "dwarfed" by the investment in the Heuston-Docklands tunnel.

Electrification of the Kildare line to Hazelhatch is provided for in the Government's Transport 21 programme. The Maynooth line would also have to be electrified in order to make Dart Underground work.

Diesel engines would only be used in the tunnel section after hours for maintenance; otherwise all trains would be electric. Anyone travelling to or from Kildare would have to change at Hazelhatch or Heuston. Asked why no station was being provided to serve the Digital Hub in Thomas Street, project manager Peter Muldoon said this area was within walking distance of Heuston or the proposed station at Christ Church.

It is also intended to retain the relatively new station above ground in Docklands, probably as a terminus for the proposed Navan commuter line. This would be 100 metres from the entrance to the underground.

[dowlingm]

6m internal diameter, that's 19'8 - how much clearance from rail to wire/tunnel is that likely to be? The Mount Royal tunnel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Royal_Tunnel) in Montreal has a 14'6" height limit but AMT are ordering the same reduced height multilevel coaches (http://bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/projects/details?docID=0901260d8002952f) as New Jersey Transit - although they are locohaul push/pull not EMUs.

[Mark]

Are they planned on removing the TBMs in St. Stephen's Green?

[Colm Moore]

Thats really a matter for the contractor.

With Metro North the suggestion is that the TBM be parked in a stub tunnel and stripped, leaving the lining in place.

Interconnector is a bit more up in the air. (Not! - pun!)

[stupido]

The TBMs will be buried. it is cheaper to leave them in the ground then to dismantle them and dispose of them later.

Metro TBMS will stay under St Stephen Green. Interconnector TBM will be buried also.

Problem is each machine is individually designed for a project and the projected ground conditions. It is not that easy to sell them second hand!

[Brian Condron]

Problem is each machine is individually designed for a project and the projected ground conditions. It is not that easy to sell them second hand!

Surely there is an abundance Ocean's 13 type situations out there, where TBMs are required to create an artifical earthquake. Or has Hollywood lied to me again?

[Thomas J Stamp]

we shall be using them to build our large, retro-style undergound headquaters.

[Colm Moore]

The TBMs will be buried. it is cheaper to leave them in the ground then to dismantle them and dispose of them later. Some parts like electrical equipment and the cutting heads are suitable for re-use or even just salvage.

Problem is each machine is individually designed for a project and the projected ground conditions. It is not that easy to sell them second hand![/QUOTE]Actually one of the Port Tunnel TBMs was reused.

[weehamster]

IÉ DART Underground Promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_M6JyxNnDY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishrail.ie%2Fprojects%2Fda rt_underground.asp&feature=player_embedded) :)

[essoII]

It think that's quite a good promotional piece and certainly sets in stone the importance of this piece of infrastructure. Very well establishes the idea of the expanded dart network. Well done IE. But follow through with those expansion figures!

[Thomas Ralph]

Sunday Times today has a suggestion about increasing use of the Phoenix Park tunnel. Can't find it online though.

[Kilocharlie]

Here is the article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6806595.ece


Think tank: Radical departure for Dublin rail plan
Irish Rail loves to spend big, but there is a cheaper way to connect the capital Ruadhán MacEoin

An Bord Snip Nua has said €55m should be saved by closing about 240km of railway around the country. Irish Rail, however, has different plans. It is seeking to build a €100m office block on top of Tara Street station in central Dublin, in conjunction with a property developer. The problem is, of course, the capital has a glut of post-Celtic tiger office space lying empty and it’s hard to think of any developers with money to invest.

Irish Rail is also advancing a plan to build about 8km of underground railway in Dublin city centre, at a cost of up to €2 billion. Connecting Spencer Dock in east Dublin with Heuston station on the western outskirts, the interconnector certainly has merit. Once completed, suburban trains will be able to go from Balbriggan in north Dublin to Naas,

Co Kildare, via Spencer Dock, St Stephen’s Green and Heuston. Trains will also be able to travel from Maynooth via Connolly station to Wicklow. Pearse station would be the interchange.

My point is that most of these link-ups can be achieved using existing CIE lines. These include the so-called “secret” railway, which includes a tunnel under Phoenix Park, connecting Heuston to Connolly and Spencer Dock stations, forming an arc that hugs the North Circular Road. Twin-tracked all the way, this line meets safety standards and serves some of the most populated areas in the capital, including Phibsborough, Cabra and Croke Park, each of which could be served by a new station.

Five years ago, Joe Maher, then chief executive of Irish Rail, told the Dail’s transport committee: “We certainly intend to use the park tunnel in the short term to bring trains from the Kildare/Newbridge area into Spencer Dock because there is demand for that.” But it never happened.

While there might be additional engineering costs for works next to the Royal Canal at Phibsborough, developing what has become known as the “ghost line” would be far less expensive than building the interconnector, or Dart Underground, which was estimated in 2003 to cost €1.3 billion, but would undoubtedly be €2 billion now.

The interconnector’s new stations will be in areas already well served by public transport. St Stephen’s Green has Luas, and the proposed station at Christ Church will be within 300 metres of the Luas’s Four Courts station. These areas will be even better served when the two Luas lines are eventually connected.

The first step in my plan would be to run Arklow trains around to Kildare, connecting Connolly and Heuston in the process. There are no engineering impediments to this.

Within a few months, Spencer Dock station will be served by a Luas extension. A minor junction change there would allow direct access from the Heuston and Dundalk lines. This would mean Balbriggan-Kildare trains could enter Spencer Dock and proceed in the opposite direction to Phibsborough or the Clontarf Road. A similar arrangement exists on the Dublin-Waterford line at Kilkenny. Trains could go from Balbriggan to Naas, and Maynooth to Wicklow using existing stock and infrastructure.

Complementary to that would be the completion of the green Luas line from Stephen’s Green via O’Connell Street and Broadstone station to Phibsborough, connecting with the commuter trains. Based on Luas construction costs to date, this could probably be done for €120m.

Under my plans, Dublin could have an integrated rail and Luas network for less than €200m. Most of the population between the canals would be no more than 10 minutes from a railway station.

Irish Rail’s plans involving tunnelling under Dublin Castle, Wood Quay and Stephen’s Green; it is difficult to think of more environmentally sensitive areas in the city. Instead, using existing but idle assets offers a frugal yet realistic integration of its rail network.

These days Irish Rail seems more interested in projects other than its core business. Public transport users are entitled to the best possible use of existing infrastructure without having to wait for grandiose schemes that may take years to build and cause huge disruption.

To use the current rail infrastructure, it may be necessary to privatise the network and lease it to a company similar to Ryanair, whose operation is based on end-to-end demand-driven services. If don’t, we may end up with closed lines and another empty office block for the National Asset Management Agency to conjure with.

Ruadhán MacEoin is a journalist and chairman of the Mountjoy Square Society

[essoII]

someone on archiseek.com already destroyed this loopy journalist:


"one problem is: why in the name of all that's bad and unholy would anybody coming from the Kildare direction go on a 25 min magical mystery tour to a docklands timbucktoo station when they can get the Luas from Heuston to OCS taking 10 mins.
IE has surveyed this and 90% plus said they would get out at Heuston and get the Luas.

In reality you could walk to OCS quicker from Heuston than going via the PP tunnell (speed redtricted lines) to Docklands and then finding your way back to the CC.
IE has already scrapped the off peak Clonsilla trains to Docklands because the trains were arriving with no passengers.
Nobody wants to go there.
Neither does anybody other than the one passenger and his dog want to go to Phibsboro from Heuston.
If you knew anything about this part of the city this would be clear to you.
Nor can the PP trains get into Connolly which has no capacity for more services..

This author of this 'hold on I have the answer to everything' article could have saved making himself look like a fool if he'd made a phone call to IE for their take on it."

[weehamster]

someone on archiseek.com already destroyed this loopy journalist:


"one problem is: why in the name of all that's bad and unholy would anybody coming from the Kildare direction go on a 25 min magical mystery tour to a docklands timbucktoo station when they can get the Luas from Heuston to OCS taking 10 mins.
IE has surveyed this and 90% plus said they would get out at Heuston and get the Luas.

In reality you could walk to OCS quicker from Heuston than going via the PP tunnell (speed redtricted lines) to Docklands and then finding your way back to the CC.
IE has already scrapped the off peak Clonsilla trains to Docklands because the trains were arriving with no passengers.
Nobody wants to go there.
Neither does anybody other than the one passenger and his dog want to go to Phibsboro from Heuston.
If you knew anything about this part of the city this would be clear to you.
Nor can the PP trains get into Connolly which has no capacity for more services..

This author of this 'hold on I have the answer to everything' article could have saved making himself look like a fool if he'd made a phone call to IE for their take on it."

You've seemd to have left out the very first part of his comment.
the platform11 anoraks have an absolute fetish for the 8th wonder of the world the PP tunnel.
www.archiseek.com (http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=99466&postcount=124)

[Mark Gleeson]

This guy had spoken to us and we very clearly stated the Interconnector was the only show in town, Park Tunnel only really came into its own when the Interconnector was built

The numbers are interesting 2,000 per hour vs 30,000 per hour, its an easy choice

[Peter1966]

The lads on the www.archiseek.com forum were critical of Ruadhan Mac Eoin's article in the Sunday Times and he has (well it appears to be him) signed up and posted a reply:
http://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=6803&page=6

I'm just an average punter, but his plan seems hair-brained to me. I can't see how it would be much use. Would be very grateful if anyone here could shed more light on the subject...

[Mark Hennessy]

Hey Peter,

This page has a lot of information on the project:

http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/extendthedart/

[Peter1966]

I had read the info on http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/extendthedart/
It's all good stuff and a compelling case is made for the underground interconnector - which I am strongly in favour of.

I am worried about Ruadhan Mac Eoin's idea of using the Pheonix Park Tunnel instead of buliding the underground interconnector. It's strikes me that his scheme would be inadequate due to:

1. Lack of capacity
2. Slow train speeds
3. Lack of integration
4. No service to the Dublin 2 area.
5. Still a two track from Inchicore to Heuston

Can anybody provide some facts and figures to flesh it out ?

i.e. Under Mac Eoin's scheme:
What would the additional journey time be to get from Parkwest to Spencer Dock ?
How many less passengers and trains per hour could the line from Parkwest to Spencer Dock accomodate ? I noted that Mark says 2,000 vs. 30,000 - is that the PPT route (2,000) vs. the Underground Interconncetor (30,000) ?

[Mark Gleeson]

I noted that Mark says 2,000 vs. 30,000 - is that the PPT route (2,000) vs. the Underground Interconncetor (30,000) ?

Yup

The park tunnel really can only be used to its maximum after the interconnector and let us be clear it must be used. But it cannot match the interconnector tunnel in terms of capacity, journey times or connectivity

Inchicore to St Stephen's Green would be 10 minutes up to 16 times an hour

Park West to Docklands by interconnector by about 15 minutes via the Park Tunnel be somewhere in the bracket of about 25 minutes plus

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1229/1224261353133.htmlDart line to be split to make way for underground
OLIVIA KELLY

DUBLIN’S DART line, which has carried passengers from Howth to Bray for 25 years, is to be severed following construction of the Dart Underground, Iarnród Éireann has confirmed.

The company will next March seek a railway order to construct the new Dart line, which will run underground from the Docklands to Heuston Station and Inchicore via St Stephen’s Green.

The underground line, due to open in 2015, will result in the current north-south Dart line being split in two.

Currently Dart trains run from Howth on the north coast of Dublin to Greystones, south of Bray, Co Wicklow, with city centre stops at Connolly, Tara Street and Pearse stations.

Once the underground line is built, passengers travelling from the north side will no longer have direct access to Connolly or Tara Street stations. Their Dart will run as normal to Clontarf Road, but will then enter a tunnel at East Wall and continue to underground stations at Docklands, Pearse, St Stephen’s Green, Christchurch, Heuston, and emerging at a surface station at Inchicore.

Passengers heading south will have to change at Pearse to return to the current Dart route.

Southside passengers travelling into the city will still have access to Pearse, Tara Street and Connolly stations. However, after passing through Connolly, their train will turn west, through Drumcondra and out to Maynooth in Co Kildare. To head north on the current Dart line, they also will have to change at Pearse Station.

Presenting the proposed lines to a recent meeting of Dublin city councillors, Dart underground project manager Peter Muldoon said the severing of the current Dart line would not affect journey times.

“If you are going from one side of the city to the other, you will have to change trains; just like every other major city. We hope to have one train every five or six minutes, so the time from leaving your house to arriving at work will not be adversely affected,” he added.

Capacity constraints at Connolly Station meant it was not feasible to construct the underground line from Connolly to Heuston stations and preserve the existing north-south Dart line.

“We have a major capacity problem with the tracks coming into Dublin,” Mr Muldoon said. “There are a huge number of tracks coming into Connolly and only one track coming out.”

The current line capacity at Connolly meant that extra trains could not be added to improve the frequency of the service, he said. The changes would allow a far greater number of trains to move through the city and would ensure passengers had a fully integrated public transport system, which brought them quickly to their destinations.

“This proposal takes people where they want to go – the Docklands and the south inner city. Merely transferring people between Heuston and Connolly doesn’t take people where they want to go,” Mr Muldoon said.

Iarnród Éireann will begin a new round of public consultation on the line and the proposed stations in the new year before it seeks a railway order, for permission to undertake the project, next March.

[karlr42]

This article does a disserrvice to the underground project- it could be phrased in a better light as creating a new DART line, which is what it is doing.

[Mark Gleeson]

Slow news day indeed.

It once again exposes the inability of Irish Rail to actually communicate clearly with the public as to the scope and impact of what is proposed

Under the current plans you could have Maynooth-Hazelhatch and Balbriggan-Bray if you wanted, in fact it will be built such that such would be possible for non service trains, but in use it doesn't make sense

The logic behind the two routes is sound and provides the maximum level of integration and ensures you can get from any rail (or metro) station in Dublin to any other with at most a single change,.

[ThomasJ]

It does raise a question that given this very point has been mentioned in the twenty or so articles the irish times have written about the interconnector why highlight it now.

Slow news day indeed and waste of space on the paper. Advertisements would have been more constructive.

[Oisin88]

RTE ran with it as well: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1229/1news_av.html?2675006,null,230
Noot quite what is says on the tin though.

[losexpectation]

it gets worse

dart-row-is-brewing-over-plan-to-split-routes
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/dart-row-is-brewing-over-plan-to-split-routes-1992896.html

[James Shields]

Where has this come from? They're hardly all copying the Times. There must be somebody behind this story. It seems to take every positive point about the Interconnector and twist it to highlight the downsides.

For example,

The plan is controversial because passengers coming from the northside will no longer have the same luxuries as those travelling from the southside, which will still have the same city centre stops.

Are these the same stations I travel through - I don't think there's much about Connolly and Tara St that could be described as "luxury". More to the point, it completely fails to mention that north side passengers will have new city centre stops at Stephen's Green and Christchurch, something I expect many south side passengers will be envious of.

[markpb]

Where has this come from? They're hardly all copying the Times. There must be somebody behind this story. It seems to take every positive point about the Interconnector and twist it to highlight the downsides.

A cynic would suggest the government are softening up the beachhead for an attempt to delay or stop work on the IC.

[ACustomer]

For heaven's sake, no need of conspiracy theories.

1. Lazy journalists just copy one another all the time
2. People who might lose out (i.e commuters from Malahide to Blackrock) will kick up a fuss, and those who might gain get left out of the argument. Typical of this country: again happens all the time.

[Oisin88]

2. People who might lose out (i.e commuters from Malahide to Blackrock) will kick up a fuss, and those who might gain get left out of the argument. Typical of this country: again happens all the time.
You could hardly call it "missing out." The Malahide DARTs will be serving Stephen's Green!
I agree, people here, even when they don't have it cushy, prefer to stick with what they have instead of improving things for others.

[Jack O'Neill]

For heaven's sake, no need of conspiracy theories.

1. Lazy journalists just copy one another all the time
2. People who might lose out (i.e commuters from Malahide to Blackrock) will kick up a fuss, and those who might gain get left out of the argument. Typical of this country: again happens all the time.

I agree - 'twas a pity the headline didn't read...

"Dart line to be doubled to make way for underground "

Just aggro stirring in the newsroom - everyone and more gains with the Interconnector

[essoII]

The procurement process for the DART Underground rail project has commenced with the publication today of a notice in the Official Journal of the European Union (OJEU) informing interested parties of the project and inviting market soundings from participants.

It is the first major phase in what is set to be a year of major significance in the development of DART Underground, with the application for a Railway Order also due to be lodged next month.

DART Underground will run underground through the heart of Dublin City Centre. The tunnel will be approximately 7.6 Km in length and will connect the Northern & Kildare rail lines, with underground stations at Docklands, Pearse, St. Stephen’s Green, Christchurch and Heuston as well as a new surface station at Inchicore.

It will, for the first time, link all rail systems together into an integrated and cohesive network – DART, Commuter, Intercity, Luas and Metro.

With capacity for DART services to operate up to every 3 minutes, DART Underground will complete the transformation of the Greater Dublin Area’s rail service capacity from 33 million passenger journeys annually now to over 100 million passenger journeys. The project is a central part of the Government’s Transport 21 investment plan and will be the single most important piece of infrastructure in the state to ensure a modal shift from private to public transport.



Procurement – Periodic Indicative Notice

The DART Underground Project will be procured as a public private partnership (PPP), and the publication in the OJEU of the Periodic Indicative Notice (PIN) is the first stage of the competitive process to select a private partner for its delivery.

The PIN informs interested parties, such as potential contractors, of the proposed scope and duration of the PPP contract. It also states that DART Underground intends to publish a Contract Notice in the Official Journal of the EU in the second quarter of 2010, which will set out a process to pre-qualify potential private partners who will be invited to tender and negotiate for award of the PPP contract through a competitive process.

Under the PPP contract the successful private partner will be responsible for the design, construction, financing, commissioning, operation and maintenance of the tunnel, stations and associated facilities over the period of the PPP contract. At this stage, the contract is envisaged to last for between 25 and 35 years, including the design and construction stages. In return the private partner will receive an annual availability and performance based payment.

Iarnród Éireann will at all times retain responsibility for the operation of DART services through the tunnel, which will be handed back to Iarnród Éireann at the end of the concession period. The PIN also alerts interested parties, principally potential contractors, to Iarnród Éireann’s market sounding exercise.

Interested parties who register their interest will receive the DART Underground Market Consultation brochure, which includes a questionnaire and invites views on the scope and procurement of the contract. Replies are due by 4 March 2010. In the interim Iarnród Éireann has prepared a reference design to support its application for a Railway Order at the end of March 2010.

By addressing regulatory and planning issues early in the procurement process, Iarnród Éireann expects to provide greater certainty to its stakeholders, bidders and funders as to safety, cost and the potential to attract significant private finance.






http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=641

[sean]

So we're doing this with a PPP :( wonder what kind of premium that's going add. Still, I guess it's something.

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0224/1224265093538.htmlOpposition to Inchicore Dart plan

FRANK McDONALD Environment Editor

RESIDENTS OF the historic Railway Estate in Inchicore, Dublin, claimed yesterday they were being “railroaded” by Iarnród Éireann’s plan for a Dart underground link between Heuston station and the Docklands area.

John Beck, chairman of Inchicore on Track, the residents’ new campaign group, said the plan – to cost €2 billion – was being “pushed through without any proper consultation”.

“The Iarnród Éireann plan will see the heritage estate, ironically built for railway workers in the 1840s, turned into Dublin’s largest 24-hour a day construction site. At its centre there will be a hole the size of a football pitch,” he said.

Inchicore on Track commissioned London-based tunnelling consultants OTB Engineering to review the proposal, which would involve excavating the local football pitch to provide an entry point for the tunnel boring machines.

The report recommends relocating the construction works a few hundred metres to an Iarnród Éireann works site, saying it would be “completely unreasonable” for the construction to be carried out in a residential area.

A spokesman for Iarnród Éireann said the site for the tunnel portal in Inchicore had been selected to avoid demolition of any houses, that the construction work would be temporary, and that local people would benefit from having a new station.

[weehamster]

I just wondering what are the view points of members here about inchicore. Are the residents right or is it just all hot air by a few. Could it get nasty and cause a major delay in the project?

[ColmmacO]

I am usually very sceptical about local residents groups who commission consultants. Usually the consultant will be given a brief to find an alternate site and then come up with reasons why the alternate site is better than the proposed site, rather than taking the logical approach and investigating whether the proposed site is suitable. So usually from the outset their report will be biased in favour of the residents group. I have also never come accross a consultants report commissioned by such a group that hasnt found in favour of the residents.

My opinion would be that if Irish Rail have actually consulted properly with the locals, and have given assurances to perform all reasonable distruption and noise abatment procedures,and have adhered to all european and national environmental directives then they should be cleared to go ahead with the plan.
This project will make a huge difference to hundreds of thousands of people all over dublin, and should not be held up unduely by a small minority.
I would also hope the residents of the estate appreciate the irony of objecting to a rail infrastructure development given the name of the estate they live in.

[ccos]

I like the hole the size of a football pitch reference, did anybody think that a tunnel entrance would require a hole the size of a monopoly board?

[Colm Moore]

This hole is the launch pit for the tunnel boring machine(s) which is likely to be in the actual (CIÉ?) sports ground. The actual tunnel portal will be further into the site.

[Oisin88]

People, be reasonable and see the big picture here please.

I am usually very sceptical about local residents groups who commission consultants. Usually the consultant will be given a brief to find an alternate site and then come up with reasons why the alternate site is better than the proposed site, rather than taking the logical approach and investigating whether the proposed site is suitable. So usually from the outset their report will be biased in favour of the residents group. I have also never come accross a consultants report commissioned by such a group that hasnt found in favour of the residents.

Read the facts first.

The report is available on www.iot.ie (http://www.iot.ie) so you can judge for yourself. In this case the report looked at the Irish Rail plans first, and as I recall spent alot of time on them. Remember also that the original engineers were probably told "we want it to go from here to here" and had to work with that. It also looks like they didn't bother to bring in the population centres along the way (see http://www.inchicoreDARTstation.com)

My opinion would be that if Irish Rail have actually consulted properly with the locals, and have given assurances to perform all reasonable distruption and noise abatment procedures,and have adhered to all european and national environmental directives then they should be cleared to go ahead with the plan.
(1) Considering CIÉ/Irish Rail don't have a track record with consulting with anyone except their property developer and FF hack loaded board, do you think that it is likely that they consulted properly with any residents along the route?
(2) CIÉ/IR Failed to comply with the Aarhus Convention, which is a European directive which it has taken Ireland 10 years to implement (not quite there)
(3)Assurances from CIÉ are not worth the paper they are printed on, and you as a passenger should know that.
(4) It is way more than noise abatement etc. Consider that you lived in a small terraced house with no front garden and a small road in front of you, and then a soccer pitch. Now consider a gantry big enough for a Tunnel Boring Machine big enough for 2 railway sized tunnels, all the spoil for 3.5 Km coming out, and all this operating on a 24 hour basis for 5 years? And all this when there is a 72 acre site a few hundred metres away, largely empty and an even larger industrial site to the west of that with multiply vacant units.

This project will make a huge difference to hundreds of thousands of people all over dublin, and should not be held up unduely by a small minority.

If the project is delayed it will be completely Irish Rails fault for not looking adequately at the alternatives. There is no plausible reason why the tunnel boring machine launch pit should have been put in the pond field and not further west in the works estate. If the job is going to be done at all:
(1) It should be done properly
(2) All stakeholders must be consulted fully (not just informed by glossy brochures and spin)

[Colm Moore]

In fairness, it is all ready a heavy industrial site that operates 24 hours a day.

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail made a mess of the consultation, the plans appeared first in the Sunday papers

It appears feasible for the portal of the tunnel/cut and cover section to be within the CIE site subject to the levels being correct. It works for everyone and makes life simpler for everyone.

Thats the solution we proposed to Irish Rail

[Oisin88]

In fairness, it is all ready a heavy industrial site that operates 24 hours a day.
The pond field? More a soccer pitch that is used once or twice a week!

The "heavily" industrialised area is about 240m to the west, inside the actual works. Most of what is to the east of the engine shed seems to be offices. Besides, how much heavy (noisy) industrial work takes place in Inchicore now?

[Colm Moore]

Trains running by and locos starting, shunting, etc. doesn't make noise?

[Oisin88]

Trains running by and locos starting, shunting, etc. doesn't make noise?
The noise caused by the normal running of the trains /shunting along the 3 tracks from Inchicore to Heuston would be nothing compared to the noise caused by tunnel boring, removal of 3.5km worth of soil, 24 hour construction noise, not to mention floodlighting, reversing lorries etc. Look on google maps at where west terrace is compared with (1) the launch pit and (2) the mainline, and see why people there might be worried.

[ColmmacO]

People, be reasonable and see the big picture here please.



Read the facts first.

The report is available on www.iot.ie (http://www.iot.ie) so you can judge for yourself. In this case the report looked at the Irish Rail plans first, and as I recall spent alot of time on them. Remember also that the original engineers were probably told "we want it to go from here to here" and had to work with that. It also looks like they didn't bother to bring in the population centres along the way (see http://www.inchicoreDARTstation.com)


(1) Considering CIÉ/Irish Rail don't have a track record with consulting with anyone except their property developer and FF hack loaded board, do you think that it is likely that they consulted properly with any residents along the route?
(2) CIÉ/IR Failed to comply with the Aarhus Convention, which is a European directive which it has taken Ireland 10 years to implement (not quite there)
(3)Assurances from CIÉ are not worth the paper they are printed on, and you as a passenger should know that.
(4) It is way more than noise abatement etc. Consider that you lived in a small terraced house with no front garden and a small road in front of you, and then a soccer pitch. Now consider a gantry big enough for a Tunnel Boring Machine big enough for 2 railway sized tunnels, all the spoil for 3.5 Km coming out, and all this operating on a 24 hour basis for 5 years? And all this when there is a 72 acre site a few hundred metres away, largely empty and an even larger industrial site to the west of that with multiply vacant units.



If the project is delayed it will be completely Irish Rails fault for not looking adequately at the alternatives. There is no plausible reason why the tunnel boring machine launch pit should have been put in the pond field and not further west in the works estate. If the job is going to be done at all:
(1) It should be done properly
(2) All stakeholders must be consulted fully (not just informed by glossy brochures and spin)

Oisin,

You dont happen to live in the area affected by the plans by any chance do you?
The amount of emotion in your post would indicate that either you do, or you have some bone to pick with IE or the present government.
If either of the above are true, I really cant see how you can post on this subject with any objectivity.

I can see the bigger picture very clearly.
The big picture is that a relatively small group of people are threatening to hold up a piece of infrastructure that will benefit a far larger group.
This is a problem that is endemic in irish society today.

I would implore you to reread my post, particularily the part of it that says if IE do things properly.

Also what evidence have you for your statement below?
"Remember also that the original engineers were probably told "we want it to go from here to here" and had to work with that"

Are you an engineer, or have you got any experience of large infrastructure projects? What is your interest in the interconnector?

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0315/1224266296888.htmlDart underground application delayed
OLIVIA KELLY

IARNRÓD ÉIREANN has had to delay its application to construct the Dart underground following discussions with An Bord Pleanála.

The company had been due to apply for a railway order for the project by the end of this month. However, due to “issues” raised by An Bord Pleanála in pre-planning meetings, it has had to look at its plans again; it now hopes to submit an application by the end of June.

A company spokesman said he could not give details of the issues raised by the planning board, but that they related to the detailed design and alignment of the route.

Opposition to the plans from residents in Inchicore, where the line will terminate, was “not one of the issues raised” by An Bord Pleanála and was not the reason for the delay, he added.

The 7.6km underground line, due to open in 2015, will link Heuston station to the Dart line for the first time, with underground stations at Spencer Dock, Pearse Street, St Stephen’s Green, Christchurch, Heuston and with a ground-level station at Inchicore.

However, some residents in Inchicore are opposing the development, claiming that tunnel-boring and station construction in such a densely populated area would make life unbearable.

A recently published report by London-based tunnelling consultants OTB Engineering, commissioned by residents group Inchicore on Track, recommended relocating the construction works a few hundred metres to an Iarnród Éireann works site.

The Dart underground project will involve splitting the current Dart line which runs north-south along the coast and creating a new interchange at Pearse Street. Once built, passengers travelling from the north side will no longer have direct access to Connolly or Tara Street stations. Their Dart will run as normal to Clontarf Road, but will then enter a tunnel at East Wall and continue to Inchicore.

Southside passengers will still have access to Pearse, Tara Street and Connolly.

However, after passing through Connolly, their train will turn west out to Maynooth, Co Kildare. To head north, they will have to change at Pearse.

[Oisin88]

Oisin,

You dont happen to live in the area affected by the plans by any chance do you?
The amount of emotion in your post would indicate that either you do, or you have some bone to pick with IE or the present government.
I don't live in the area, I live on the quays. I have no bone to pick with Irish Rail, except the bone that has developed from their shortcomings experienced by a daily traveller for the last 8 years. I have no bone to pick with the current government (on public transport policy) and am in fact a fully paid up member of the junior partner. I do, however, sympathise with the residents, and have joined their campaign. They are attempting to ensure that the process is consultative, despite Irish Rails unilateral approach to things.


If either of the above are true, I really cant see how you can post on this subject with any objectivity.
If either of the above were true, would there be any reason why I couldn't?


I can see the bigger picture very clearly.
The big picture is that a relatively small group of people are threatening to hold up a piece of infrastructure that will benefit a far larger group.
This is a problem that is endemic in irish society today
Really? And the evidence for this statement is available where? And are IOT delaying this or is the fact that the project team had to hurriedly move the tunnel portal to Inchicore delaying the project? I would challenge you to provide any evidence of delay by residents to the project up to this point.

I would implore you to reread my post, particularily the part of it that says if IE do things properly.
Read again, and I agree, with the emphasis on the word "properly" but having been a member on here for a few years, I have seen precious little evidence of them doing things properly, and plenty about where they have got it wrong. In fact you even discuss it, in a way, in your own post here (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpost.php?p=53894&postcount=76)

Also what evidence have you for your statement below?
"Remember also that the original engineers were probably told "we want it to go from here to here" and had to work with that"
Note the use of the word "probably" here. Reading your post, I note that you also made assumptions about the OTB report. Am I not entitled to make similar assumptions about the IÉ commissioned work? I have experience of seeing work done by other consultants and how they are commissioned.

Are you an engineer, or have you got any experience of large infrastructure projects? What is your interest in the interconnector?
No, I am not an engineer, but I wasn't aware that a degree in engineering was the only license to have an opinion or to have knowledge about infrastructural projects. I have a number of siblings that are engineers. I note you are one of the blessed ones, however, you could be a chemical engineer (or even a fuel injection engineer)

My emotion was mainly piqued by your predictable broadside against the 700 residents in the works estate (and many more around the area) legitimate concerns with a hastily thrown together plan by a monolithic state organisation. I want to see the interconnector delivered, more than most people. I can't wait to see it and will use the train alot when it comes. But it has to be done properly, not shoddily, and that means probably putting the portal in the place where it has the least impact on residents. Looking at the plans, that probably means a few hundred yards west of where currently planned, in the middle of a largely abandoned railway works (much of the work has been moved out of here) as stated in the OTB report. In any event, due to the nature of the rock interfaces underneath, this option might even be cheaper.

In fact, I also think that the location of a station in the works is also not optimal. Something closer to either Ballyfermot Village or to Inchicore Village would have better patronage, and would allow for better linkage with other modes such as buses etc. But that's another story.

Oh, and I had granola (non-organic) from the Dublin food co-op, a banana, and a latte for breakfast. Now are you happy?

[ColmmacO]

I don't live in the area, I live on the quays. I have no bone to pick with Irish Rail, except the bone that has developed from their shortcomings experienced by a daily traveller for the last 8 years. I have no bone to pick with the current government (on public transport policy) and am in fact a fully paid up member of the junior partner. I do, however, sympathise with the residents, and have joined their campaign. They are attempting to ensure that the process is consultative, despite Irish Rails unilateral approach to things.



If either of the above were true, would there be any reason why I couldn't?



Really? And the evidence for this statement is available where? And are IOT delaying this or is the fact that the project team had to hurriedly move the tunnel portal to Inchicore delaying the project? I would challenge you to provide any evidence of delay by residents to the project up to this point.


Read again, and I agree, with the emphasis on the word "properly" but having been a member on here for a few years, I have seen precious little evidence of them doing things properly, and plenty about where they have got it wrong. In fact you even discuss it, in a way, in your own post here (http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpost.php?p=53894&postcount=76)


Note the use of the word "probably" here. Reading your post, I note that you also made assumptions about the OTB report. Am I not entitled to make similar assumptions about the IÉ commissioned work? I have experience of seeing work done by other consultants and how they are commissioned.

Are you an engineer, or have you got any experience of large infrastructure projects? What is your interest in the interconnector?
No, I am not an engineer, but I wasn't aware that a degree in engineering was the only license to have an opinion or to have knowledge about infrastructural projects. I have a number of siblings that are engineers. I note you are one of the blessed ones, however, you could be a chemical engineer (or even a fuel injection engineer)

My emotion was mainly piqued by your predictable broadside against the 700 residents in the works estate (and many more around the area) legitimate concerns with a hastily thrown together plan by a monolithic state organisation. I want to see the interconnector delivered, more than most people. I can't wait to see it and will use the train alot when it comes. But it has to be done properly, not shoddily, and that means probably putting the portal in the place where it has the least impact on residents. Looking at the plans, that probably means a few hundred yards west of where currently planned, in the middle of a largely abandoned railway works (much of the work has been moved out of here) as stated in the OTB report. In any event, due to the nature of the rock interfaces underneath, this option might even be cheaper.

In fact, I also think that the location of a station in the works is also not optimal. Something closer to either Ballyfermot Village or to Inchicore Village would have better patronage, and would allow for better linkage with other modes such as buses etc. But that's another story.

Oh, and I had granola (non-organic) from the Dublin food co-op, a banana, and a latte for breakfast. Now are you happy?

************************************************
Oisin,

The second post on this thread (pre merging) asked for posters opinions on the project. I gave mine. Clearly yours is different to mine. I would ask you to respect my opinion and agree to differ rather than childishly attacking it (and me).

With respect to the part of your response highlighted in bold above, My experience of such reports prepared by consultants is such that the reports always always come out in favour of the commissioners i.e. Those who pay for the report. In the past most consultants worth their salt wouldnt touch such a residents group with a ten foot barge pole mainly because doing so would tarnish their reputation. My experience is such that, the views of such consultants reports can and have been warped and misquoted by the residents group to fit their own messages and aims. Maybe it is a sign of the recessionary times that consultancies are happy to take on this work.

I would appreciate a mature and reasoned debate on this Oisin but until you can grow up and post without sarcasm I dont think that will happen.

[Thomas Ralph]

Hi folks, just a reminder to all parties involved that it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Full debate is encouraged, but some recent posts have been straying from that.

[ColmmacO]

Interesting if perhaps slightly off topic article in todays times on the PR / consultation process behind major infrastructure projects.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0322/1224266807354.html
It would probably be a bit difficult to make a work of art out of dart underground, but nonetheless it shows what can be done to make a controversial infrastructure project a success.
Shows the need for give and take on both sides.

[Thomas J Stamp]

stop the "grow up" and "childish" references please, ta.

[ColmmacO]

stop the "grow up" and "childish" references please, ta.

And are you going to ask Oisin to quit the sarcastic messages directed at me?
Or is there one rule for him and another for me?

[Colm Moore]

Thomas and I have both ask the two of you to stop.

[Mark Hennessy]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0505/dart.html

Delayed until 2018 now...

I guess giving 1.3bn to Greece this week and zillions to Anglo etc was never going to expedite the process :rolleyes:

[ThomasJ]

does this mean electrification is on hold too?

[eugene]

That sickeneds me to hear this, never voted FF since the first time I could in 1994 and never will. Great little country all the same. I just hope the Maynooth line at least is completed according to plan..

[Thomas Ralph]

Sigh...

[drumcondra commuter]

Such a critical piece of infrastructure does not get priority, even in a downturn. It shows in whose interests the resolution of the fiscal crisis is and it ain't us. We can borrow for Anglo, AIB and BoI but not for something that will improve the lives of millions of passengers?

[Colm Moore]

Surely it should enable other projects as the resources aren't being used on the DARTU.

[eugene]

The laughable thing about this too is that the poxy Green Party (the most pro-public transport party you would think), haven't stopped this decision. Won't be voting for them either any more...

[Mark Hennessy]

does this mean electrification is on hold too?

My guess is that the only budget will be for websites, leaflets, crayons, consultations and the odd PR release to tell everyone that the project has not been cancelled but just "elongated".

Anything that involves cold hard cash, well we know where that is being spent....

[essoII]

Interesting points being made on the archiseek.com thread on this latest news:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=7008&page=11

Apparently Noel Dempsey wasn't aware of this date setback and was actually at a meeting this morning with IrishRail. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0505/dart.html


Also there are open days starting from tomorrow with regards to the DartU:
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dartunderground/Meetings%20DART_03.pdf

[Mark Hennessy]

Planning permission sought for €2.5bn Dublin Dart underground system


http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/planning-permission-sought-for-25bn-dublin-dart-underground-system-50158.html

[Mark Gleeson]

Happy days

[Colm Moore]

Site is there, but not live. http://www.dartunderground.ie/

[Mark Gleeson]

Dart underground plan lodged

An artist's impression issued by Irish Rail of the proposed Heuston Dart Underground station

ÉANNA Ó CAOLLAÍ

The formal application for the Dart underground rail project in Dublin has been lodged with An Bord Pleanála.

If approved, the Dart underground, which is estimated to cost at least €2.5 billion, will deliver a high-capacity rail line through the city centre.

The €2.5 billion project will involve the construction and operation of some 8.6 km of new rail, 7.6 km of which will be in twin-bore tunnels.

The tunnels will connect the northern and Kildare rail lines with underground stations located at Spencer Dock, Pearse, Station, St Stephen’s Green, Christchurch and Heuston Station, as well as a surface Dart station at Inchicore.

Frequency and capacity on the Dart Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines will be increased while the Dart would be extended to Maynooth, Hazelhatch/Celbridge and the Northern line, with Pearse Station acting as a central hub connecting all lines.

It is estimated that as many as 7,000 people will be employed each year during its proposed construction.

Iarnród Éireann said the system will be up and running by 2018.

The Government says the network will treble the numbers travelling on the Greater Dublin rail system to over 100 million passengers journeys annually.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey said the application was "an important stepping stone" towards and improved system of public transport in Ireland.

"The submission of the Railway Order for the Dart Underground brings closer the vision of a mass transit system outlined in Transport 21, and in tandem with Metro North will transform public transportation in the Greater Dublin Area”, Mr Dempsey said.

A Railway Order is the equivalent of a planning permission for new rail schemes and, if granted, will authorise CIÉ to begin the project.

The Government will apply to the European Investment Bank - which recently pledged €500 million towards the Metro North project – for some of the financing.

Potential private backers have until July 20th to express an interest. Investors would take a share in profits under the plans.

“There has already been significant interest,” Mr Dempsey’s spokesman said.

Additional reporting: PA


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0630/breaking4.html

[weehamster]

New video promo (http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/230-2780115-512-288.smil) showing what the stations etc will look like. :)

p.s requires real player :rolleyes: as this came from RTE website

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=824 DART Underground - Railway Order application submitted by DART Underground

The DART Underground rail project takes another significant step towards delivery today (Wednesday, 30th June) when the formal application is lodged with An Bord Pleanála for the Railway Order granting planning approval for the construction of this key public transport infrastructure scheme.

The application by CIÉ represents a further milestone in the progress of the project which is considered the most important piece of rail infrastructure to be constructed under the Government’s Transport 21 investment programme.

DART Underground will transform public transport services into and throughout Dublin and will be an enduring transport legacy benefiting generations into the future.

DART Underground will deliver a second high capacity DART line which will run underground through the heart of Dublin City Centre. The twin bore tunnels will be approximately 7.6 Km in length and will connect the Northern and Kildare rail lines, with underground stations strategically located at Spencer Dock, Pearse, St. Stephen’s Green, Christchurch and Heuston Station, as well as a new surface DART station at Inchicore.

Crucially, DART Underground will link all rail systems- DART, Commuter, InterCity, Luas and Metro- to form an integrated and seamless transport network that will treble the numbers travelling on the Greater Dublin rail system to over 100 million passengers journeys annually.


Minister welcomes application

The Minister for Transport, Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D. today welcomed the news of the submission of the Railway Order application. He stated: "Today marks an important stepping stone in our efforts to increase and improve public transport in Ireland. The submission of the Railway Order for the DART Underground brings closer the vision of a mass transit system outlined in Transport 21, and in tandem with Metro North will transform public transportation in the Greater Dublin Area”.

Minister Dempsey added: “I particularly welcome the fact that this project will strengthen Iarnród Éireann's routes in the Greater Dublin Area into a network by the introduction of a second DART line. Not only will this project connect Iarnród Éireann's routes it will also provide links with the Luas and Metro at St. Stephens Green, Spencer Dock and Heuston stations. It will also provide for new stations at Inchicore and Christchurch thus opening up new areas for travel by train. This Government is committed to investment in important infrastructure that will serve us for many generations to come.''

The Railway Order is the equivalent of a planning permission for new rail schemes and, if granted, will authorise CIÉ to construct, maintain, improve and operate the DART Underground.

The project will involve the construction and operation of approximately 8.6 Km of new rail (7.6 Km of which will be in tunnels) from the CIÉ Inchicore Works to tie into the Northern mainline south of East Wall Road and north of the Docklands area. The project will be managed on behalf of CIÉ by Iarnród Éireann, supported by expert advisers with international experience of similar major infrastructure projects.

Subject to the granting of the Railway Order it is anticipated that construction will commence in 2012 and that the system will be operational in 2018.

The tunnels will be constructed using two Tunnel Boring Machines, launching from the Docklands, at an average depth of 24 metres, or some 80 feet, below ground level. The underground stations will be constructed using techniques that will minimize the effect for the local residents, communities and environment. There is potential for more than 75% of the spoil from the construction of the project to be removed by rail. This in turn has the potential to reduce the traffic impacts during the construction phase.

Advertisements have appeared today (30th June) in national newspapers detailing the display of the Railway Order plans, and inviting submissions from interested parties ahead of An Bord Pleanala’s adjudication on the project.


Major economic impetus

DART Underground will provide a major economic impetus, bringing jobs to people and people to jobs and will have a central role to play as a driver of economic growth. It will create significant employment, up to 7,000 jobs during each year of construction and thousands more indirectly as a result of the significantly improved access that the project will deliver to retail, commercial, leisure and tourist destinations in Dublin.


DART Underground to transform rail service

DART Underground is set to be developed with a capacity for up to 20 trains each direction per hour, allowing up to 64,000 commuters to use the line hourly.

With capacity for DART services to operate up to every 3 minutes, the line will complete the transformation of Iarnród Éireann’s Greater Dublin area’s rail service capacity from up to 33 million passenger journeys annually now to over 100 million passenger journeys.

The new line will dramatically increase frequency and capacity for commuters on DART Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines - the three fastest growing population corridors in the country - and relieve the current congestion at Connolly Station. Development plans also include the extension of the DART network to Maynooth, Hazelhatch/Celbridge and the Northern line.

DART Underground provides the missing link that that will deliver a fully integrated rail network for the Greater Dublin Area , linking all modes and ensuring that suburb to suburb, as well as suburb to city centre, journey’s can be made by a frequent, high capacity public transport network.

DART Underground will open up a web of new rail connections, including-
· Spencer Dock Station with the expanded Luas Red Line
· Pearse Station will become a central transport hub as both DART lines interchange there, opening up a variety of new rail connections and options. Pearse will also link with outer Commuter services.
· St. Stephen’s Green will have convenient access to the Luas Green Line and the proposed Metro North to the Airport and Swords.
· Christchurch with future Luas City Centre-Lucan line.
· Heuston Station links to Intercity services from the South and the West, outer Commuter trains and the Luas Red Line.
· Inchicore with the Kildare DART line and the planned Luas City Centre-Lucan line.

As the project progresses to the formal Railway Order planning approval stage, there are a number of other significant developments taking place:
Ø The project is being developed as a Public Private Partnership (PPP). The formal procurement process commenced on 12th May with the publication of the Contract Notice in the Official Journal of the EU. The deadline for the submission of the pre-qualification questionnaire is set for the 20th July.
Ø The business case for the project was recently completed by Colin Buchanan & Partners Ltd, a leading international transport planning and economics consultancy, and it concluded that the economic case for DART Underground is very strong and that overall the completion of the system is crucial to the future economic development of Dublin. It forecasts that the DART Underground programme will generate 2.4 times more benefit than it will cost to build and will deliver significant wider economic benefits. This statistic demonstrates that DART Underground will be a major factor in the future economic development of the country.
Ø With average tunnelling depths of 24 metres the project is not expected to significantly impact on the vast majority of properties along the route. However, in order to allay any concerns residents and property owners may have, a Property Protection Scheme has been put in place so that they have a record of the condition of their property prior to the commencement of the construction of DART Underground. This record will be a benchmark against which any deterioration in a property can be measured.


Display of documents

Under the Railway Order, CIÉ will be displaying the full plans for the Project at various different locations for a period of six weeks.

The full Railway Order documentation, including:
- The draft Railway Order
- Plans of the proposed railway works
- A Book of Reference to the plan, indicating owners and occupiers of lands described in the plans
- Environmental Impact Statement will be on display from 7th July until 18th August 2010 at the following locations:
· An Bord Pleanála, 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1
· Dublin City Council, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8
· Heuston Station, Dublin 8
· Pearse Station, Dublin 2
· CIÉ Inchicore Works (Inchicore Parade Entrance), Dublin 8.

These documents may also be viewed from 7th July until 18th August 2010 on www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie

The display is to allow all interested parties to view the plans. Any interested party then has the opportunity up to the end of the display period to submit any views they have on the project to An Bord Pleanála. All submissions, including the original plans, are then considered by an Inspector appointed by An Bord Pleanála.


...

[Colm Moore]

Continued...

An Bord Pleanála may, at its absolute discretion, hold an oral hearing into an application for a railway order. The Inspector shall submit to An Bord Pleanála a report in writing of his/her findings and any recommendations he/she considers appropriate having regard to the submissions/inquiry. An Bord Pleanála will rule on the final scope of the project.

A spokesperson for DART Underground said “the Railway Order process ensures that all interested parties can make their submissions for consideration by An Bord Pleanála. While there has been extensive public consultation to date, we would encourage all residents, businesses, commuters or other interested individuals or groups to take the time to examine our proposals on display or online.”

Further project details are also available here http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0630/1224273622738.html
Dart underground rail plan lodged

The formal application for the Dart underground rail project in Dublin was lodged with An Bord Pleanála yesterday.

If approved, the Dart underground will deliver a high-capacity rail line through the city centre.

The twin-bore tunnels will connect the northern and Kildare rail lines with underground stations located at Spencer Dock, Pearse, Station, Stephen’s Green, Christchurch and Heuston Station, as well as a surface Dart station at Inchicore.

It is estimated that close to 7,000 people will be employed each year during its proposed construction.

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0701/1224273706905.html New East Wall site for launch of Dart tunnelling machine
TIM O'BRIEN

INCHICORE RESIDENTS have given a guarded welcome to a decision to drop plans to assemble and launch a tunnel boring machine for Dart Underground on a sports field in the historic Railway Estate.

According to an application for a Railway Order lodged with An Bord Pleanála yesterday, tunnelling for Dart Underground is now to take place from east to west, with the tunnel boring machine launch site now located at East Wall near Docklands station.

In addition, the Inchicore portal has been moved several hundred yards away from houses and is now to be located within the CIÉ engineering yards. Houses in the Railway Estate date from the mid-1800s and were built for railway workers, including those working in the yards.

The changes mean Dart Underground is set to have a much lower impact on the community of about 700 people in the Railway Estate. While an area of green space will be required for an “intercession and vent shaft” from the tunnel, Iarnród Eireann said yesterday this would be small and not located on the playing pitch.

The Railway Order is the rail equivalent of planning permission and if approved the €2.5 billion project will deliver a high-capacity rail line through the city centre.

The line is 8.6km, 7.6km of which will be in twin-bore tunnels. The tunnels will connect the Northern and Kildare rail lines with underground stations at Spencer Dock, Pearse Station, St Stephen’s Green, Christchurch and Heuston Station, as well as a surface Dart station at Inchicore.

Frequency and capacity on the Dart Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines will be increased, while the Dart will be extended to Maynooth, Hazelhatch/Celbridge and the Northern line, with Pearse Station acting as a central hub connecting all lines.

Separately yesterday, the chief executive of the National Roads Authority (NRA), Fred Barry, defended its policy of charging taxis to use the Dublin Port Tunnel.

Mr Barry yesterday told the Oireachtas Committee on Transport that the tunnel was just paying its operating costs through toll revenue, and if taxis were allowed to use the tunnel free then taxi drivers may want free passage extended to the rest of the State’s toll roads, bridges and tunnels.

Mr Barry agreed to refer the issue to the NRA board after the chairman of the committee, Frank Fahey, appealed to him to consider it as a way of reducing congestion in the city.

[Mark Gleeson]

The website came online last night
http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie/

I'd wager that it is impossible to actually read everything included in the time available

There is a massive amount of background material provided, including the until now secret Arup report, Dublin Suburban Rail Strategic Review which is eye opening into the vast array of (at times ingenious) possibilities considered

[karlr42]

Went for a quick viewing of the documents on display in Pearse today during a break from work. Mark is right, there is a huge amount of documentation on display that would take a commitment to read through fully. Hopefully this bodes well as it shows a lot of effort has been put in by CIE for this to go ahead.

I note though that there seems to be a problem just west of the Inchicore tunnel mouth- the tracks suddenly revert back to 2-tracks. Am I right in saying that the extension of the DART to Hazelhatch is dependent on another railway order expanding the track westward from this area to connect with the 4-track KRP? Having a bottleneck from the end of the KRP to the tunnel mouth can't be the final plan unless DARTs are to terminate in Inchicore.

I also believe there is to be a separated-grade connection off the mainline to the tunnel so that Intercity trains can bypass the tunnel and get to Heuston- the railway order doesn't seem to take account of the interaction between traffic for Heuston and traffic to the tunnel.

On another note, I was the only person to view the documents today, according to the sign-in sheet.

[Mark Gleeson]

West of Inchicore the tunnel tracks drop below the current outbound track and surface in the centre with the current tracks either side. A fly under is proposed with the current outbound track being carried on a bridge to allow the two tunnel tracks to pass under.

By virtue of the design of the Inchicore the station it's slightly below ground level so this arrangement works

4 tracks will be provided between there and Cherry Orchard

This is all a separate project.

[karlr42]

Is it intended to have that separate project complete in time for the completion of DART Underground?

[Mark Gleeson]

Subject to funding...

With the move to Inchicore its a lot cheaper and easier to do. Its separate

Some of it can be done without planning permission

[ACustomer]

If the link between the 4-track KRP and the Underground is not done properly, then you will have 2 massively expensive projects with a huge reduction in capacity because of a bottleneck junction which will cost much more to rectify at a later date as opposed to doing it as part of what in reality should be one project.

Why is there no joined-up thinking? Reminds me of the city-centre DASH project where the most congested part of the system is neglacted.

You couldn't make it up.

[CorkALVIN]

One suggestion here is that the proposed tunnels should be built to Berne Gauge so as to allow doubledeck rolling-stock which might become necessary for increasingly busy commuter routes, as well as standard Berne-Guage freight containers and wagons to enable the use of the link for freight at offpeak times. This should also be considered as of potential benefit if a fixed Britain-Ireland rail link is ever built, which would also require some kind of 'Talgo' dual rail-guage Intercity carriages and wagons; after all, such a project as the Dart Subway tunnel will have at least 100 years working life ahead of it.

[Colm Moore]

On another note, I was the only person to view the documents today, according to the sign-in sheet.Where are the documents on display? They should be in a public area with no need to sign in.

[karlr42]

Where are the documents on display? They should be in a public area with no need to sign in.
In the conference room behind the stairs on platform 2. I got the impression from the attendant that signing-in was not essential and was just to track interest.

[finnyus]

If the link between the 4-track KRP and the Underground is not done properly, then you will have 2 massively expensive projects with a huge reduction in capacity because of a bottleneck junction....

The junction with the tunnel at Inchicore will have to be grade separated, to make sure that no disruption to the traffic in-and-out of Heuston. In Osterfeld, Stuttgart, which was station not so long ago, was the starting point of a section of 4 tracking (similar to the KRP). Google Maps Link (http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.73927,9.114511&spn=0.001917,0.003283&t=h&z=18). Like the KRP, the outside tracks are the fast tracks, and the middle tracks are used for the stopping trains. The link above shows the point were the middle tracks enter the tunnel to travel under the city, and the outside lines continue above ground towards main station - no conflicts, as the junction is completely grade-separated. Would something like this be possible @ Inchicore? Have the initial track plans started yet?

[Mark Gleeson]

A grade separated junction is provided for in the future at Inchicore

The details are all available online

[finnyus]

A grade separated junction is provided for in the future at Inchicore

So initially to access the tunnels, will be over a flat crossing?

[Mark Gleeson]

It will be grade separated from day one

The section south of Inchicore is a separate project

Its clearly shown in the plans as being grade separated but separate

[ACustomer]

But look at the other end (East Wall Jcn): a right mess and as far as I can see a flat junction.

[finnyus]

But look at the other end (East Wall Jcn): a right mess and as far as I can see a flat junction.

What section of the http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie/ are ye looking at ?

[Mark Gleeson]

But look at the other end (East Wall Jcn): a right mess and as far as I can see a flat junction.

It is but only Dundalk and Belfast inbound services will conflict, outbound trains will not.

[Kilocharlie]

Apparently they looked at several options for the East Wall including a grade separated junction but concluded that the additional benefit did not justify the extra cost and difficulties involved. The discussion is in the EIS report.

[karlr42]

Good communication from IE's Facebook page:

this simply refers to the fact that KRP2 will be dealt with under a separate project, as will all the various electrifications etc which will feed into the wider network DART Underground delivers. These projects are scheduled to be delivered at or before DART Underground is completed.

Which assuages my fears.

[ThomasJ]

Good communication from IE's Facebook page:

Which assuages my fears.

not neccessarily,

it wasnt long ago they were saying 2012 for DART line services on the Maynooth.

No doubt, its going to be late a year or two but it will still be long before the underground. the major thing for the maynooth line at the moment is its tied in with the city centre resignalling.

[cagey]

I have come late to this discussion, but if DART Underground is built with an easy grade separation option and combined with new signaling, then almost the whole system can be joined.
The fact that the Maynooth line is diesel is easily fixed with EDE (Electric/Diesel/Electric) or EDEMU (trains combined making a Multiple Unit). These trains can travel on Electric or Underground (turning off the diesel/electric). Now Maynooth line users can choose a train to St Stephens Green without an interchange as also current DART users from Raheny etc. can travel to Bray or St Stephens by choice.
A further advantage is that gaps (15 to 20 mins) in schedules (due to Mainline trains to Connolly not four-tracked) can be filled in the Dart Underground by Maynooth Trains to the City and on to Heuston.
The same applies to North-bound travellers from south of Pearse, who by choice could travel North or West (Maynooth).
Also current DART users to Tara or Connolly won't be shafted by DU and CIE may hold on to them.
There are a lot more advantages when you bring Metro North into the mix.

All the above requires is a small change to the proposed DU rails at West Road and diverting freight at Phibsborough, but I am not sure if bull-headed CIE will accept this ... we shall see.
I will try to show an image in here, but not sure I can.

[cagey]

Slow news day indeed.

It once again exposes the inability of Irish Rail to actually communicate clearly with the public as to the scope and impact of what is proposed

Under the current plans you could have Maynooth-Hazelhatch and Balbriggan-Bray if you wanted, in fact it will be built such that such would be possible for non service trains, but in use it doesn't make sense

The logic behind the two routes is sound and provides the maximum level of integration and ensures you can get from any rail (or metro) station in Dublin to any other with at most a single change,.

I saw your entry a bit late Mark ... the problem is that as the DU RO stands there will be no Maynooth to Hazelhatch direct option (they said "later" and they even altered the drawings to show a dotted line but confirmed a flat junction at North Wall Yard).
Meanwhile, there will indeed be no Howth to Tara Street if DU RO goes ahead, and Gaybo (Sydney Parade) will have a long walk at Pearse.

[cagey]

It is but only Dundalk and Belfast inbound services will conflict, outbound trains will not.
I am afraid you have not thought this one through Mark.
Before a mainline train can leave Connolly all the DART trains going north will have to be cleared to Howth Junction (usually to Kilbarrack suffices for Howth DARTs) and also as far as Malahide. This means no DART train will leave the DU (or Connolly at the moment) for 15 to 20 mins. Of course there will be no delay after the mainline train has passed but that is a bit too late.
I am afraid until 4-tracking is done north there will be "gaps" both ways. And I as a rule get my timing wrong both ways ... I hate those "gaps". Even the "Loop-line" congestion is not as bad as those Blxxx gaps.

[cagey]

Apparently they looked at several options for the East Wall including a grade separated junction but concluded that the additional benefit did not justify the extra cost and difficulties involved. The discussion is in the EIS report.

I read the EIS report and it is in grave error as it assumes the current DU RO West Road/Ossary Road realignment and a new rail-over-road bridge at West Road are necessary, but there is a much cheaper and better alternative costing 10s of millions less, that would allow for easy grade separation (from freight) and reasonably easy junction with the Maynooth line.

[Colm Moore]

Irish Rail is uploading its documents for the oral hearing here: http://www.irishrail.ie/dupdfs/filelist.aspx

[comcor]

This morning, I got on the 145 at Heuston. Between the rain and the road closures for Obama's visit, I reached Blackhall Place 20 mins later.

I eventually decided I would have to get out and walk.

I am now in the offices of the client I'm currently doing some work for an hour an 15 minutes after leaving Heuston and soaked to the skin.

The sooner they build DART underground the better!

[Mark Gleeson]

There was a queue of buses from Heuston to O'Connell Bridge to the Custom House then around to Westland Row and Merrion Square

[ThomasJ]

its a pity there aren't spare sets to allow for shuttles to run from heuston to connolly via the pp tunnel in exceptional circumstances.

Even if it meant the train running to drumcondra and parked at sidings/sent back people could board a connolly bound maynooth train then.

[ACustomer]

You can't run from Heuston to Connolly without reversal, or from Connolly to Heuston unless it's to Platform 10 (i.e. the boondocks).

As for spare rolling stock for such "exceptional circumstances", that's financially a no-no, given the amount of capital tied up in seldom-used rolling stock. (and please don't drag the Mark IIIs into it!)