View Full Version : [Article] Pay and Display on the way
hoopsheff
17-07-2008, 08:17
Hi
I noticed this in todays paper.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-rail-parking-charges-to-cost-commuters-8364500-a-year-1434382.html
Seems like IR are not content to provide an appalling service but now want to charge people for parking at park and rides too.
Barry Kenny claims that the charging wont have any impact on the number of commuters...of course it wont...most of the affected people dont have any other choice..its the train or nothing. this is an absolute disgrace. In affect most people now have to pay higher transport costs because of this.
With this charge it is now nearly as cheap for me and my girlfriend to drive to heuston and park there for the day and walk to city centre.
So much for the government policy of trying to encourage people to use public transport!!:mad:
RTE News http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0717/rail.html
Pay & display set for Dublin rail network
Thursday, 17 July 2008 09:50
CIÉ has confirmed that it plans to introduce pay and display parking at 37 stations on the greater Dublin rail network.
Commuters will be charged €2 a day or a discounted rate of €8 a week.
The charges come after CIÉ signed a contract with a private parking control and clamping company. They will net the provider over €3m, a third of which will be paid to CIÉ.
The contract will come into force from September and plans will be rolled out through the autumn.
CIÉ says that the revenue it collects from commuters will be reinvested in parking spaces.
The stations affected are on lines from Athlone and Longford, including the stations on the Portlaoise and Coolmine Arrow routes, the Dundalk line, the Dart routes and the Arklow and Gorey lines.
Around 8,000 parking spaces will be affected.
Breaking News http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlauaueyoj/
Dublin rail users face increased parking charges
17/07/2008 - 09:47:37
Commuters who travel into Dublin by train are set to face increased parking charges from September.
Iarnród Éireann says it plans to introduce pay-and-display parking at 37 stations on the greater Dublin rail network.
The company says the revenue raised is needed to ensure it can continue the expansion of car parks on the network.
Drivers will be charged €2 a day, or €8 per week.
Mark Hennessy
17-07-2008, 09:27
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-rail-parking-charges-to-cost-commuters-8364500-a-year-1434382.html
New rail parking charges to cost commuters €500 a year
By Shane Phelan
Thursday July 17 2008
THOUSANDS of commuters will have to fork out up to €500 a year more just to get to work from September.
Commuters and shoppers will be left counting the cost after CIE confirmed controversial plans for new 'park and ride' charges at dozens of railway stations.
The semi-state company has signed a contract with a private parking control and clamping company to introduce 'pay and display' parking at 37 stations on the greater Dublin commuter network, the Irish Independent can reveal.
Commuters from as far away as Longford and Gorey will be hit with parking charges of €2 a day, where previously they could park for free.
Opposition TDs and transport lobby groups last night branded the new charges as "unacceptable".
However, CIE rejected suggestions the charges would discourage commuters from using public transport.
CIE signed the contract with a Dublin-based company, Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems (NCPS), earlier this month. The contract will run until November 2011.
It was advertised last February to companies who had previously expressed an interest in offering car park management services for CIE.
CIE will receive a €1m-a-year slice of the revenue generated from the parking fees, but has refused to say -- for commercial reasons -- what the contract is worth to NCPS.
The stations where pay parking is set to be introduced are:
l Dundalk, Drogheda, Laytown, Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush & Lusk, Donabate, Malahide and Portmarnock on the northern line.
l Sutton, Killester, Clontarf Road, Booterstown, Dalkey and Bray on the DART line.
l Athlone, Portarlington, Kildare, Newbridge, Hazelhatch, Carlow, Athy, Portlaoise, Clara and Monasterevin on the Heuston commuter line.
l Coolmine, Maynooth, Mullingar, Edgeworthstown, Leixlip Confey, Kilcock, Enfield and Longford on the Maynooth/Longford line.
l Arklow, Wicklow, Rathdrum and Gorey on the Wicklow/ Gorey line.
Approximately 150,000 people use commuter lines in and out of Dublin each day, with just under 5pc of these using station car parks, according to CIE.
Transport lobby group Rail Users Ireland (RUI) slammed the new charges, saying commuters were being specifically targeted to generate revenue.
"It is bad news for commuters. I think that charging for car parks will definitely discourage people from using public transport," said RUI spokesman Mark Gleeson.
Fine Gael transport spokesman Fergus O'Dowd said: "Increasing the cost of someone's travel expenses by several hundred euro a year is not acceptable.
"If you have always parked for free then you should still be able to do so.
"It is going to make things very difficult for people who are already feeling the pinch from the economic downturn," he added.
Clamping
CIE spokesman Barry Kenny confirmed to the Irish Independent that the contract would come into force from September onwards and would roll out through the autumn.
Mr Kenny said a €2-a-day charge would apply, with a discounted rate of €8 a week, and that those who don't "pay and display" would be liable for clamping and fines.
"The experience shown in other public transport 'park and ride' facilities, be they operated by Iarnrod Eireann, Luas or local authorities, shows that commuters are not discouraged from using public transport, particularly with such a low nominal charge," Mr Kenny told the Irish Independent.
"What we have seen in fact is an increase in the catchment area for public transport -- those who live within walking distance of stations leaving their cars at home, freeing up spaces for people from a wider area to benefit from the parking facilities.
"With soaring fuel costs and high parking charges in cities, our commuting costs remain extremely low by comparison."
Mr Kenny said revenue generated by the charges would be put towards a major programme of car park expansion by Iarnrod Eireann, with over 13,000 new spaces planned across the network.
These plans include what would be the largest 'park and ride' facility in the country, a 1,200-space car park north of Dunboyne, Co Meath.
The possibility of multi-storey car parks in Drogheda, Portmarnock, Coolmine and Cork is also being examined.
- Shane Phelan
Mark Hennessy
17-07-2008, 09:29
And Indo Editorial:
U-turn on public transport policy
Thursday July 17 2008
On one side, the commuting public hears talk of congestion charges to deter them from driving into the city. On the other, they hear today's news that they are to be effectively fined for following official advice to "park and ride" where possible.
Yes, if a CIE plan to introduce charges at rail station car parks goes ahead, a five-times-a-week commuter will soon be paying almost €500 a year on top of the train fare. He or she can choose not to pay, of course. In that case, the delinquent driver's car will be clamped and he or she will face a sizeable fine.
Given that the idea has been floating around for at least five years, and given that hard-pressed taxpayers face rising prices on all sides, is it clever to inflict this quite significant unavoidable charge at this time?
Five years ago, the late Seamus Brennan displayed the political savvy for which he was renowned when, as minister, he vetoed this same plan.
CIE planned to raise millions by introducing pay and display at 30 stations, including most of the stations in the greater Dublin area.
The only difference this time is that 37 stations are being targeted.
Mr Brennan refused to give approval on the basis that it was government policy to attract people to use public transport and charging people to park at stations would send the wrong message.
Has government policy changed so much in so short a time?
And, if so, what else has changed?
Mark Gleeson
17-07-2008, 10:26
If you live in Gormanston you pay €5 a week, but the new plan is to charge €8 at further stations where charges are applied. Its a different company to the one currently used.
So 48 week year at €8 per week €384 which is 43% increase over the normal Dublin rail annual ticket of €890
I quite deliberately did my piece for TV3 from Booterstown car park, they tried to charge there before, it didn't happen.
http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/carparking/
tigger1962
17-07-2008, 10:57
this has basically negated the taxsaver fare! I live over 6 miles from the station and we are a two car family because of the lack of creche facilities... based on this we will have now start driving to dublin every day. can you cancel a commutter ticket because of this??:mad:
ACustomer
17-07-2008, 11:52
Can IE offer a Monthly/Annual ticket which for an extra €x per month/year includes use of car park. That way the tax-saver aspect could be enhanced. No doubt some fastidious official in the Revenue would try to stop it (protection of tax revenue, etc). But if we are serious about promoting the use of public transport, we need to do something like this.
Mark Gleeson
17-07-2008, 12:07
Veoila do combined tickets within the tax saver scheme
We have discussed this with senior Irish Rail people, we have in writing a commitment to look into it.
I suppose it was bound to happen eventually but it doesn't make it any easier to take. They know that they have a captive market that more than fills the train station car parks so why not fleece the suckers for a few quid? It is not as if there is any alternative if you live more than a couple of miles away.
My two biggest gripes (apart from the cost) are the potential inconvenience and the fact that there is nothing to be gained from the payment. The inconvenience is having to allow additional time to make the payment and when I say we gain nothing from it I mean that the parking facility will remain as it was. There will be no valet parking or daily car wash for your two euro! Today I park my car for free and tomorrow I park my car for two euro and nothing else will change.
Actually, better make that three big gripes because I have just read the article again and noticed that Irish Rail are only set to benefit by €1 million per year while NCP take €2 million. Our money is important to Irish Rail but not so important that they can be bothered to collect even half of it. What is the phrase? "Adding insult to the injury"?
I will be interested to see how this is implemented. Will a weekly parking ticket guarantee you a space every day? Given that spaces are gone by 7:30 I very much doubt it unless this drives away enough people to leave permanently free spaces.
On that note, and trying to see some positives, I see this as about the only potential benefit. I know enough people who drive a walking distance to Drogheda station to drive me mad when I am sitting in the queue to get out in the evening. If it gets rid of their cars then that has to be a good thing. I might even be able to have a lie-in some morning if spaces become available for longer.
All things considered, this stinks. I could get the bus instead but Drogheda Town Concil have recently put a €2 charge on all town centre car parks. I am close enough to Navan to get the bus from there but guess what? All car parks in Navan are €2 euro as well! Park and Ride? Only if you Pay and Pay.
Mark Hennessy
17-07-2008, 12:55
My two biggest gripes (apart from the cost) are the potential inconvenience and the fact that there is nothing to be gained from the payment. The inconvenience is having to allow additional time to make the payment and when I say we gain nothing from it I mean that the parking facility will remain as it was. There will be no valet parking or daily car wash for your two euro! Today I park my car for free and tomorrow I park my car for two euro and nothing else will change.
Bang on, the service will be the same.
I will be interested to see how this is implemented. Will a weekly parking ticket guarantee you a space every day? Given that spaces are gone by 7:30 I very much doubt it unless this drives away enough people to leave permanently free spaces.
Irish Rail have no interest in the customer, of course you will be paying for the "right" to park but they won't give a toss, just like those who reserve seats on Inter-City trains.
one of the comments made by Irish Rail this morning was that it would result in people living nearby the stations to walk to it and not drive leaving the option for people from further afield to drive to the stations
While this statement could possibly be true for Coolmine, look at Hazelhatch, its location and lack of shuttle buses, yet I have no doubt they would have no problem with introducing p&d at that station tomorrow!
Brian Condron
17-07-2008, 13:23
I for one am for this. Let's get this straight, there is no such thing as "free parking". Back when there wasn't as many cars on the street parking was paid for out of taxes, however that is impossible now. Large out of town shopping centres with 250,000 "free" parking spaces get their money by adding it to the cost of what they sell. "Free" parking at railway stations came out of the Irish Rail budget and effectively all of us paid for it as part of our ticket. There was no reduction for those of us who leave the car parked at home. I am satisfied now that none of my fare is going to subsidise those who park at the station. For €5 a week I'd argue that the price isn't steep enough.
the problem is though will people park on nearby streets rather than the station?
Mark Gleeson
17-07-2008, 13:34
Let us be very very clear here
The money to pay for the expanded car parks is coming from the T21 budget, it is not being paid from the fare box or through the revenue from charges.
Parking is the biggest issue out there in commuter land. CIE has failed utterly to address this issue. Its not about providing a infinite number of spaces, its about making it possible to travel your full journey without a car. Where is the local bus service?
thedailygrudge
17-07-2008, 13:36
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0717/breaking34.htm
So we are now going to have to pay another 400-500 euros per month for the pleasure of parking in a carpark in Mullingar with no tar, no correct road markings and no security cameras...
How is this appropriate or acceptable. Does Irish Rail have free range to do what they want, the government apparently opposed it but still it is going to happen this autumn!!!
Why can't we stand up to this. One thing is for sure, I will no longer commuter if this comes in, I am at the end of my tether and sick to death of incompetent IR.:mad: :mad: :mad:
tigger1962
17-07-2008, 13:37
Well I for one am only 2 weeks into my ticket! I rang to see about a refund and it seems i hand to back to the company and they claim it but it seems a reasonable process! I am not happy about this new expense I know oil prices have gone up but I cant see much "upgrading" done to a carpark thats already fairly full by 8am most days and a lot of those cars have northern registrations or travel from vilages outside dundalk... mind you i have seen some people parking there just to go to the shops!!
I for one am for this. Let's get this straight, there is no such thing as "free parking"... I am satisfied now that none of my fare is going to subsidise those who park at the station. For €5 a week I'd argue that the price isn't steep enough.
I would like to know how much my car park space in Drogheda is costing IE? They don't have security, they don't maintain drains to stop it flooding in the rain, they do not accept liabilty for any damages, they don't even go round with so much as a brush and pan to sweep the place.
Don't get me wrong, it is a fine car park, but apart from the initial surfacing and line painting and some lights in the winter what does it cost to provide on an ongoing basis? I'll bet it is a lot less that than the 100 odd grand per year that it is about to reap.
I think what rail users ireland should do is give phoenix park station as an example.
From what i have seen travelling past that station where pay and display is already brought in that there are less than fifteen cars availing of that car park on a daily basis.
tigger1962
17-07-2008, 16:00
hmmm but as someone said already most of the money gathered will go to the company running the carpark!! this is another M50 all over again!
Mark Gleeson
17-07-2008, 16:00
Gormanston is the same, phoenix park station is just in a really bad location, its just inside the M50
Colm Moore
17-07-2008, 18:12
So we are now going to have to pay another 400-800 euros per month for the pleasure of parking in a carpark in Mullingar with no tar, no correct road markings and no security cameras...Mullingar town is full of free parking. And as Mark said "So 48 week year at €8 per week €384" - €384 per year, not per month.
dowlingm
17-07-2008, 18:31
At the end of the day, parking is not sustainable. For Dublin DART/inner suburban stations, they should be torn out and replaced with development and feeder services/pick-up drop-off zones. For outer suburban you're probably going to need a car park because of insufficient density but feeders should be possible in places like Drogheda.
As for free parking in Mullingar, if IE is raking in money along with their private company partners, how long will it take the local council to realise they're missing a trick, especially when their constituents complain there's no parking because out of town commuters are all over the road?
tigger1962
17-07-2008, 19:19
you can tell Dempsey doesn't use train judging by his comments on tv! He probably has his chauffer driven car paid for by tax payers! Maybe if and ever the Navan station open up with pay and display there he might change his tune come election time. Until then the monopoly that is Irish rail has their own way! I've been talking to a few people on the way home as did my partner and they intend to bombard Dermot Ahern with letters and park on the street rather than pay the charge
Up north, park and ride is free and the new facilities have site security. Bangor has feeder buses. Irish Rail is a disgrace to the nation.
Only way it will change is if enough people get FF and FG to turn on IE and kick some sense into it, starting by sacking the entire senior management
Mark Gleeson
18-07-2008, 08:05
Only way it will change is if enough people get FF and FG to turn on IE and kick some sense into it, starting by sacking the entire senior management
Trust me a widespread sacking exercise would be the first thing to do, entire CIE board could go as well, they don't serve any purpose.
We have come up against a brick wall with this, we have had the meetings with IE, we have it writing, there is no talking to these guys.
Now I know of a two commuter towns effected by this pay parking lark and there is sustained talk of mass disobedience. There currently are about 5,500 spaces at these 37 stations, they don't have 5,500 clamps. We don't condone breaking the law but it does show what lengths people want to go to
Apparently we don't talk to Irish Rail, we do, we talk to the people who make the decisions not excuses.
774
Mark Hennessy
18-07-2008, 08:16
I hear Dempsey was on the news last night saying the charges were reasonable.
Anyone got a link?
Anyone know where Gormley and Greens are hiding out on this one?
Mark Gleeson
18-07-2008, 08:29
Linky
http://www.railusers.ie/podcasts/audio/17072008-TodayFM_News.mp3
tigger1962
18-07-2008, 08:38
Are Irish rail employees going to have to pay this charge as well or is it a case of one rule for the company and another for those using the company!
And todays [fri 18-7-2008] Independent has more on it
More rail stations will impose parking charges
New rail parking charges to cost commuters €500 a year
By Shane Phelan
Friday July 18 2008
EVEN more rail stations across Ireland will be targeted in the pay-for-parking blitz.
CIE is set to expand its controversial railway station pay parking regime even further than was first revealed in yesterday's Irish Independent.
The semi-state company initially confirmed plans to charge for parking at 37 commuter stations serving the greater Dublin area.
However, the Irish Independent has learned that plans exist to extend pay parking even further in the coming years.
The plans include introducing parking charges at new stations being built, including Dunboyne and Clondalkin Fonthill, as well as at the new M3 park and ride on the Dunboyne line.
News of the second raft of stations to be hit with parking charges comes just a day after the Irish Independent exclusively revealed how thousands of commuters will have to fork out up to €500 a year more just to get to work because of the introduction of parking fees at the 37 commuter stations.
The charges are being introduced from September.
The stations being initially targeted are on the Northern, DART, Heuston, Maynooth/ Longford and Wicklow/Gorey lines.
The revelation sparked uproar yesterday with some commuters threatening a campaign of civil disobedience in protest at the charges.
The Irish Independent has learned that the contract signed by CIE with clamping company Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems also provides for further roll out of "pay and display".
The contract will also include pay parking at new car park facilities being planned at existing stations and at new stations," admitted CIE spokesman Barry Kenny. "We will also examine the possibility of car park charges at some intercity stations where charging currently does not apply."
The new regime will see commuters charged €2-a-day or €8-a-week to park.
Stations where pay parking already exists with a weekly charge of €5 will also see that fee increase to €8.
Opposition politicians and commuters reacted with fury to the new charges.
Fine Gael labour affairs spokesman Damien English described the charges as "a stealth tax that will hurt commuter town families who have no choice but to pay the fees to get to work."
Mr English called on Transport Minister Noel Dempsey to order CIE to drop the charges.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/more-rail-stations-will-impose-parking-charges-1435088.html
tigger1962
18-07-2008, 12:26
C I É is committed to attracting more customers to using public transport. To achieve this objective, we must continue - and accelerate - our investment programmes to further improve the quality of our products and services in response to what you, the customer, demand.
So we will attract you by charging you the consumer for parking at our highly improved carparks while you stand in cramped conditions for up to an hour on our quality trains :rolleyes:
Thomas Ralph
18-07-2008, 18:17
Are Irish rail employees going to have to pay this charge as well or is it a case of one rule for the company and another for those using the company!
I don't see that happening.
Mark Gleeson
19-07-2008, 13:53
Don't get excited its 2003, when CIE was told to take a hike
Car park charges not to proceed for rail commuters by Press Office
Following discussions between CIÉ and the Minister for Transport yesterday (24 February), it has been agreed that the proposed introduction of nominal parking charges for rail commuters at Booterstown, Clontarf Road and Malahide Stations will not now proceed.
The feasibility of proceeding with charges for non-commuters at these stations will be reviewed in light of this development. Iarnród Éireann will endeavour to ensure that car parking facilities at these stations are available for rail commuters only.
http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=63
Monday, February 24, 2003 :
Pressure mounts over DART charges
By Eddie Cassidy
PRESSURE is expected to intensify on Transport Minister Seamus Brennan to resist Iarnród Éireann plans to charge commuters for parking at selected DART stations.
Opposition parties yesterday rejected the rail company’s move as illogical and counterproductive. The company confirmed new charges could cost up to 50c an hour at three stations.
Iarnród Eireann last year shelved plans for parking charges at more than 30 stations. However, a spokesman said the company decided to press ahead with the charges at Booterstown, Clontarf Road and Malahide due to the high levels of non-commuters using the stations’ car parks.
The charges will be applied this summer, possibly as part of a pilot project. Fine Gael’s deputy leader, Richard Bruton said the plan made no sense and was counterproductive to efforts to reduce traffic congestion in Dublin.
The Labour Party demanded Mr Brennan should oppose the new parking levies. Last year, the minister criticised as anti-commuter Irish Rail proposals for passenger parking in Dublin stations. He warned the move would be a disincentive to people using public transport services.
However, Iarnród Éireann said yesterday it was forced into the decision as local authorities had introduced car park charges on-street in areas adjacent to its Booterstown, Clontarf Road and Malahide stations.
“As a result, we are introducing controls into these car parks to ensure facilities are available to commuters,” the spokesman said.
He dismissed suggestions the introduction of charges at the stations was part of a pilot scheme for wider charging at DART and commuter stations.
The company, said the spokesman, had examined the option of charging at stations across the board last year but decided against proceeding with the proposal. The spokesman added that rail commuters will have heavily discounted nominal charges for parking with higher rates applying for non-commuters.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/02/24/story823130820.asp
Thomas Ralph
19-07-2008, 21:18
Can they not just do what Veolia do, and charge little or nothing for parking for season ticket holders and €45 a day for non-ticket-holders?
Derek Wheeler
20-07-2008, 00:06
Brennans decision in 2003 was made on the basis that he didn't realise that Luas/Veolia/RPA were doing the pay parking deed in their park and rides. Successive meetings took place between CIE and the DOT in relation to this. I posted proof of it on our original forum years ago. Result=DOT gave the go ahead to CIE to do the same. Its old news and if blame needs to be accredited then it goes to the DOT. End of story.
Colm Moore
21-07-2008, 14:43
I'm not certain, but i think the original plan for the RPA was free parking. However, a year before they opened they were getting phonecalls asking them when people who working Sandyford Industrial Estate could use their car parks there. So minds were changed.
€8 a week in a train station certainly beats the proposed €130.50 per week (assuming 5 days x 9 hours x €2.90 per hour) in Dublin City Centre - thats €6,003 over a 46 week year.
http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Parking/Pages/DublinCityParkingControl(Amendment)ByeLaws.aspx
thedailygrudge
22-07-2008, 09:31
Mullingar town is full of free parking. And as Mark said "So 48 week year at €8 per week €384" - €384 per year, not per month.
Apologies for typo, I meant per year. Where abouts is the free parking near the train station?
thedailygrudge
22-07-2008, 09:42
We had the journos interviewing people in Mullingar station this morning and taking photos of the car park if you can call it that! Look out for article in the Westmeath Examiner!
Mark Gleeson
23-07-2008, 13:02
Well folks its not just the 37 stations in Dublin
EVERY station will be charged for, even those in the Midleton and KRP project despite no mention at the time the projects where approved
Will they have the neck to charge on the WRC, don't think so
tigger1962
23-07-2008, 15:21
1
Thank you for your e-mail, regarding Iarnród Éireann’s introduction of a Pay and Display parking system across the network, beginning this autumn.
The reason for the charges is to fund the major program of car park expansion thought out the rail network. The program will provide over 13,000 new spaces and the revenue from the charges will fund the program and its upkeep. The income will also help Iarnród Éireann address the increasing operation costs in the current economic environment.
Our research in other public transport ‘park and ride’ facilities, be they operated by Iarnród Éireann, Luas or local authorities, show that commuters are not discouraged from using public transport, particularly with such a comparatively low nominal charge. What we have found in fact, is an increase in the catchments area for public transport. The passengers who live within walking distance of stations tend to leave their car at home, thereby helping free up spaces for people from the wider area to benefit from the parking facilities. Take Leixlip Louisa Bridge for example, where charging has been in place for over a year, sees large numbers of cars from areas such as Clane, and Straffan, using the car park. The same has been the experience in Co. Meath station car parks, where customers otherwise would not be able to use our services. Customer numbers using the stations have increased by 20% in a 12-month period. With the soaring fuel costs and high parking charges in cities, our commuting costs remain extremely low by comparison.
The cost of the new charges will be €2 per day, or €8 per week (the existing car parks such as Leixlip Louise Bridge, and Gormanston, where weekly rate is currently €5 per week, will also go to €8 per week). I would make the point, that the Luas park and ride is currently in operation charges €4 per day, with no weekly discount.
The program contract will also include pay parking where new car park facilities are planned at existing stations, and at new stations (for example on the forthcoming Dunboyne line).
Thank you for taking the time to express you concerns.
Yours Sincerely
Paul Slowey
Customer Relations Manager
Northern & Eastern Connolly
tigger1962
23-07-2008, 15:23
note this line from above!! so it is a money making exercise!!:mad:
The income will also help Iarnród Éireann address the increasing operation costs in the current economic environment.
Mark Gleeson
23-07-2008, 15:34
Money making yes but not for Irish Rail, its for CIE and even then they are only getting a fraction of the take
13,000 new spaces
5,500 existing spaces
18,500 total
less 10% for wheelchair/accessible spaces
16,650
assume 90% weekday occupancy at €8 per space for 50 weeks
15,000 * 8 * 50 = €6 million
CIE get a €1 million per annum slice with ZERO guarantee of investment in the service, can't find anywhere where CIE's massive property income out of Spencer Dock has reached the rail accounts
Given they now are going to jack up the €5 charge, the game is afoot for something we are looking into
Thomas Ralph
23-07-2008, 20:54
note this line from above!! so it is a money making exercise!!:mad:
Well at least they're being upfront about it.
Some interesting quotes from the DTO's "Rail Park & Ride Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area" (http://www.dto.ie/web2006/pnr.pdf)
Under "Key Success Factors of Rail Park and Ride"
All types of Park and Ride facilities, whether local or strategic in function,
share many common features. In essence, the facility should offer a space to
park a car safely and securely, and within a short time, get a space on a
public transport vehicle that offers a competitive journey time to the desired
destination.
There's nothing in the announced plan about secure parking.
The operation of the car park should not generate undue congestion on the
local road network. Access and egress movements by car to and from the
Park and Ride site should not conflict with walking and cycling networks
providing access to the station. A Transport Impact Assessment should be
carried out for each proposed local Park and Ride site, as part of a detailed
feasibility study.
Have any such assessments been undertaken?
Minimum Specification for new or Expanded Park and Ride Sites
6.4.1 Design
The design of the car park should incorporate the following basic facilities:
• cycle parking. The number of spaces provided should in all cases be
sufficient to cater for existing and suppressed demand for cycling at
the station. The cycle parking should be secure (in a place that is
visible by site management / CCTV ) and covered. The cycle parking
should, in all cases meet the specification of the DTO Traffic
Management Guidelines;
• pedestrian access to public transport services;
• operational requirements for public transport vehicles (taxis, buses,
etc) and ticketing systems and
• car passenger drop-off and pick-up facilities (Kiss and Ride)
• Passenger facilities, including personal security measures, lighting,
landscaping, litter bins, public transport information, footpaths,
pedestrian crossing, directional signage, shelter while waiting.
Like any of that is going to happen
Control and payment arrangements for the Park and Ride facility should be
easy to use, and should ensure that the car park spaces are occupied by the
cars of rail users only. Ideally, one charge should cover access and egress to/
from the car park and to/ from the public transport service. The Park and
Ride control and payment strategy should be compatible with the proposed
Integrated Ticketing System (Smartcard for the GDA). Cycle parking should
be provided free in all cases.
Again, not going to happen in the near future.
Of course, this is largely irrelevant, because this isn't about Park & Ride, this is about IE gouging more cash from its customers.
Mark Gleeson
24-07-2008, 15:08
Be careful about where you quote from the DTO also say the users of the park and ride should contribute to the cost
Be careful about where you quote from the DTO also say the users of the park and ride should contribute to the cost
True, but they're talking about proper car parks with security, lighting, shelter, foothpaths, landscaping: and that's their minimum specification.
And parking fees integrated with tickets, and with the smartcard system.
I don't know if there'd be as much outcry over the new charges if these were being provided, rather than sticking a 2 euro charge on the existing slab of bare tarmac.
Is there not government funding already allocated for provision of parking anyway which IE haven't used? Thought I saw it mentioned somewhere before.
Mark Gleeson
25-07-2008, 11:50
The capital costs are paid by government, we have that in writing from Irish Rail.
We are investigating several avenues, members section has more
Laois Commuter
28-07-2008, 12:25
I for one am for this. Let's get this straight, there is no such thing as "free parking". Back when there wasn't as many cars on the street parking was paid for out of taxes, however that is impossible now. Large out of town shopping centres with 250,000 "free" parking spaces get their money by adding it to the cost of what they sell. "Free" parking at railway stations came out of the Irish Rail budget and effectively all of us paid for it as part of our ticket. There was no reduction for those of us who leave the car parked at home. I am satisfied now that none of my fare is going to subsidise those who park at the station. For €5 a week I'd argue that the price isn't steep enough.
A voice of reason!! Well done sir.
I walk over a mile each day to the station, and the same back - even in the depths of winter - despite having a car available. I arrive at the station warm, and awake. I do not pollute that atmosphere (much!). OTOH, I see people driving less than 1/4 mile to the station, then sitting in their cars in the car with the engine running (to keep air-con on in summer, heat in winter I presume), then getting out as the train arrives, delaying departure of said train. The reverse "race" in the evening is laughable - after the 1750 ex Heuston leaves Newbridge, people start walking to the front of the train to be first off, by Monasterevin the front coach is full of lemmings in the corridor. Getting off three coaches back and walking past them still fighting their way out and running towards the bridge brings some light entertainment at the end of the day. Completely sad.
If I take a day off, as I did recently,to travel to Dublin Airport to meet elderly relative and assist them home with luggage, I cannot get into the station car park because of these lazy (insert own name here).
Brass neck of the week award goes to Portlaoise councillor in the local rag, who says IE should not charge - but is quite happy with on-street car parking charges in the town!
LC
Mark Gleeson
28-07-2008, 13:55
I've been witness to the scrum to exit the train. Its mainly a result of the poor local infrastructure and poor car park exits when means unless you exit in the first few you could be stuck for a long time
The whole you can walk routine is great until you realise the pedestrian access is rubbish to most stations, and the pedestrians have to dice with the car park traffic, give Newbridge or Kildare a spin. Templemore is a blast as well, but its such a walk from the town that you couldn't blame anyone for driving.
The capital cost is paid for by the tax payer regardless of a charge or not
Mark Hennessy
28-07-2008, 14:37
Anyone see the new ads from Dublin Bus?
It says take the bus to avoid rip off car parking.
Who says CIE don't have a sense of humour?
AndrewMc
28-07-2008, 14:58
For both my wife and I travelling together, these car park charges push the cost of rail travel within about €200 of sharing a car (even after estimating approx 50% back from taxsaver scheme). Although we'd have to get up earlier, the car always leaves when it's supposed to, goes right into the city centre, takes at least 30 minutes less each way, and it's like getting a full refund for every day we don't travel at all. We are seriously considering it for next year.
Anyone who thinks our car park is worth €2 a day has to be kidding. Loose gravel and the smashed glass of broken-into and burnt-out cars isn't what I'd consider a paid-for parking surface to be. It'd only take a single incident in the whole year to finally push the cost of rail travel over the car.
And no, there's no bike racks.
Mark Gleeson
28-07-2008, 15:02
We encourage photographs :D
The whole you can walk routine is great until you realise the pedestrian access is rubbish to most stations, and the pedestrians have to dice with the car park traffic, give Newbridge or Kildare a spin.
Planning permission has been given for a pedestrian overbridge at Newbridge Station. Believe it will be accessible from the new station car park on the Dublin side.
Just touching on a different note for a sec, do you reckon people in communities around the rail stations affected are aware of what impact this could have. With people parking on local housing estates instead.
Coolmine has an issue at the moment where passengers are parking in local housing areas taking up room and local residents are concerned this will get worse.
There is an article on this in the blanch gazette will post it later.
Colm Moore
30-07-2008, 17:41
Some residents in Dunboyne didn't want access form their estate to the proposed station to stop it turning into a car park. No doubt they will then drive to the station. :)
Some residents in Dunboyne didn't want access form their estate to the proposed station to stop it turning into a car park. No doubt they will then drive to the station. :)
No doubt about it victor.
note that the changes to the blanchardstown bus route changes that would have seen access to rail stations in dublin 15 by bus improve and a fifteen minute journey between dunboyne and clonsilla rail by the 270.
All this has been rejected by the same department that have approved these parking charges.
Mark Hennessy
30-07-2008, 19:30
No doubt about it victor.
note that the changes to the blanchardstown bus route changes that would have seen access to rail stations in dublin 15 by bus improve and a fifteen minute journey between dunboyne and clonsilla rail by the 270.
All this has been rejected by the same department that have approved these parking charges.
I think the term for that is "holistic solution". :rolleyes:
In what other nation would you get the Department of Transport refusing to sanction a bus route that served a large non rail connected area with a train station?
The Department of Transport have to be challenged and shamed publicly for this. Julie O'Neill really does earn her money doesn't she?
I think the term for that is "holistic solution". :rolleyes:
In what other nation would you get the Department of Transport refusing to sanction a bus route that served a large non rail connected area with a train station?
The Department of Transport have to be challenged and shamed publicly for this. Julie O'Neill really does earn her money doesn't she?
Bang on mark. The fact is we have been pushing feeder bus services when we cant even get a proper core bus service in operation.
What is going on with bus services in west dublin and kildare is nothing short of a scandal. Ok this is not the place maybe to discuss this.
Introducing pay parking without proper alternative services is like introducing the congestion charge without any reasonable alternative.
In fact in all of the statements brought out since they announced this charge irish rail have failed to suggest to people why not take the bus to the station where possible?
Thomas J Stamp
30-07-2008, 20:38
What is going on with bus services in west dublin and kildare is nothing short of a scandal. Ok this is not the place maybe to discuss this.
discuss away
Well, here is a bit of insight from Joan Burtons blog going back to last month
http://www.joanburton.ie/?postid=900
Minister Puts up Roadblock to Better Dublin 15 Bus Service
June 26, 2008
In a recent meeting with representatives from Dublin Bus, Deputy Joan Burton has learned that the strict interpretation of competition rules by the Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey TD, has cast doubt on a whole series of improvements to the Dublin Bus service in Dublin 15.
Deputy Burton commented “I was shocked to hear that much needed and long awaited improvements to the Dublin 15 bus service have been thrown into doubt because of Minister Dempsey’s ideologically motivated interpretation of competition rules. Over the past year, Dublin Bus has been carrying out a root-and-branch analysis of its Dublin 15 network with a view to making significant improvements. Given the amount of housing development in the area over the last decade, this is not before time.”
“There is currently a private operator running a popular and valuable hourly service to the airport and there is no suggestion that Dublin Bus is trying to compete with the airport route. However, there may be some element of overlap along a very small section of one of the proposed new Dublin Bus routes. I understand that the Minister has rejected the Dublin Bus application to extend one of its routes due to this small overlap with the private operator’s route even though they are clearly not in direct competition.”
“The net effect of this decision goes beyond simply the single Dublin Bus route extension. This extension would have freed up more buses to increase frequency on the 70 and 270 routes for a start. The Minister’s decision will discommode a significant number of people merely for the sake of protecting a private operator from possible, minimal impact. In fact, I am informed that the private operator in question has not even made an issue of this, which would give an indication of the low level of potential impact the changes could have on that business.”
“This situation comes hot on the heels of a similarly bizarre situation where Dublin Bus was initially barred from running certain express buses through the Dublin Port Tunnel, even though they were not in direct competition with a private operator along most of the route. Fortunately for the people of River Valley in Swords, the Minister has come to his senses in recent weeks and has decided to allow these buses to use the tunnel. I would now call on him to review his potentially far-reaching decision with respect to Dublin 15.”
“I find it baffling that we have a Minister in charge of our public transport system that doesn’t seem to believe in the concept of public transport. Most people don’t really care whether it is a public or private operator who is providing the bus service as long as that service is frequent, reliable, accessible and affordable. If people had such an option, I’m convinced that many would happily leave their car at home. In this instance, the Minister’s actions are completely at odds with the stated Government policy of encouraging increased use of public transport.”
Changes to the Dublin 15 route would mean access for Dunboyne and Littlepace passengers to Clonsilla Station and also a bus link between coolmine station and blanchardstown centre with the 37.
Dublin Bus are appealing the decision.
To approve a scheme to charge the motorist to park-and-ride and reject a public transport improvement is beyond me! :mad:
Note the whole Dublin 15 changes are held up because of this
OK heres the article from the Blanch Gazette - its a diary article by Jim Lacey
Green Party representative Roderic O'Gorman has called on Fingal County Council (FCC)to take measures to aid residents of estates in the vicinity of Coolmine Railway station suffering from the large volume of commuter-based parking.
O'Gorman had been canvassing in Carpenstown and Luttrell Park, and said that many residents raised concerns about what they see as unfair parking by rail commuters. They also mentioned the potential for the escalation of this problem when Irish Rail's proposal to place a charge on parking in their car parks comes to fruition.
Residents complain of being unable to negotiate roads leading to their homes, bin lorries have difficulty accessing estates and, even more worryingly emergency vehicles could be prevented from carrying out their duties as a result of traffic parked on both sides of the road.
The Planning Department of FCC specifically instructed builders and developers to provide hammerheads in the design of new estates to enable emergency and public utility turning space and room to manoevre.
Why then allow vehicles to block them?
O'Gorman says that he wrote to FCC suggesting the use of single yellow lines to ensure at least one side of the road does not become blocked with parked cars. He has also called for the gap on the double yellow lines on the Riverwood Road, near the entrance to Luttrell Park Grove, to be filled in.
He goes on to say that he sees these as sensible solutions to the significant problems being faced by residents due to unfair parking.
Should they prove successful here he feels that they should be rolled out to other estates such as Carpenstown Park, Kirkpatrick and Rockfield to ensure that parking doesn't impact on residents.
Already myself and other residents, including Carpenstown Residents Association, have written to the Traffic Department in FCC on similar lines. My representations did not merit a reply, despite FCCs Citizens Charter stating that they will acknowledge all letters in need of reply within three days of receipt and will issue full replies within 15 working days.
Cllr Mags Murray attended a meeting at the junction of Cherry Lawn/ Cherry Park along with a member of the Garda Traffic Corp and local residents, where a dangerous bend and hammerhead has been plaged with careless commuter paking.
The Traffic Department's answer was either to remove part of the green space to allow for commuter parking or alternatively install meters.
I wish Roderic O'Gorman the best of luck in his attempts to have FCC treat the residents concerns seriously.
I know a few friends from around Carpenstown Park and they have told of stories of where cars were "abandoned" by commuters.
Whats to stop this happening elsewhere i local areas beside stations when these charges come in and commuters do not wish to pay them?
ACustomer
31-07-2008, 08:42
What's a hammerhead?
In a roads context it is also a widening in the road, often at the end of a cul-de-sac. As in the post above, they are supposedly there to aid in turning vehicles, but in practice they tend to become extra parking spaces for the commuters or residents since there is no yellow-box or other indication that the widening is there for a purpose.
z
Colm Moore
31-07-2008, 17:03
What's a hammerhead?Instead of a turning circle at the end of a cul-de-sac, you have a 'T' so people can do a 3-point turn and run over 5 year olds.
From left to right - Roundabout - Turning Circle - (deformed) Hammerhead - Roundabout used for traffic calming.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swrynfgfzsf9&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29505867&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1
I was away during July and only saw this recently.
What a F@%#ing joke. I was wondering when and where the Stealth Taxes would start creeping in with the economy tanking. Guess I just got my answer.
I saw somewhere that Edgeworthstown (my local station) was on the list, and that proves that this is nothing more than a slimey stealth tax.
For starters, the station is at least 1/2 km from any portion of the town itself, basically it's a station in a field.
Secondly, the place is not pedestrian friendly at all - the entrance is off the main N4 road with almost no pedestrian access - there are no footpaths from the town as far as I know and things like pedestrian crossings/lights are nonexistant on the route from the station to the town.
Thirdly, most of the development in the town of housing estates and whatnot over the last decade has been to the North West of the town whereas the station is off to the South East.
Finally, cyclist facilities are nonexistant as are connecting buses.
In short, if you intend to take the train from Edgeworthstown station, you will be driving to it. Full stop. The car park itself is also pretty basic, nothing to write home about.
Furthermore, even if we accept Irish Rails "logic" that it's OK to fleece commuters because (just because) but not so much long distance or outside-the-GDA users (as their communique seems to suggest) the definition of Edgeworthstown and Longford as being in the Greater Dublin Area could use some examination. There may indeed be a considerable number of extreme commuters (economic migrants priced out of Dublin) living in the county and working in Dublin, but if I'm not mistaken most Longfordians use the train irregularly and would consider the Dublin journey to be long distance.
Unbe*******lievable.
Mark Gleeson
03-08-2008, 23:40
Members area will have more shortly
Please take photos of car park, we will build up a portfolio be very handy later. Few photos of the station would be helpful as well
Don't worry if you think your local station has escaped this time, the evil CIE money machine will be with you shortly :(
Colm Moore
04-08-2008, 14:00
Furthermore, even if we accept Irish Rails "logic" that it's OK to fleece commuters because (just because) but not so much long distance or outside-the-GDA users (as their communique seems to suggest) the definition of Edgeworthstown and Longford as being in the Greater Dublin Area could use some examination. There may indeed be a considerable number of extreme commuters (economic migrants priced out of Dublin) living in the county and working in Dublin, but if I'm not mistaken most Longfordians use the train irregularly and would consider the Dublin journey to be long distance.
I was under the impression that Longford trains were typically packed to the rafters at commuter times.
Mark Gleeson
04-08-2008, 14:15
Only one packed is the one with the 10 euro day return fare in the morning, people standing on it
Seats are no problem beyond Maynooth in the evening
Is there any sign of an organised co-ordinated protest against these
parking charges?
The only protest I can think of is that we all take a day
off work and drive into the city and clog the roads around the
city centre for a couple of hours.
Any other suggestions???
I believe that there are 27 stations covered by the plan
and as has been stated elsewhere here, CIE are only getting
€1 million per year in this deal, this is pittance when they are
spending billions on the rail system.
The reason that this stuff happens is because there is never
any protest by the ordinary Joe Soap.
It's time for action...
Mark Gleeson
14-08-2008, 09:34
We do not condone activities which are illegal or likely to cause inconvenience to the public. The guilty parties here are Irish Rail management combined with a lazy Department of Transport, not the long suffering commuting public.
Irish Rail have the full backing of the Department of Transport, last time around they didn't and it collapsed.
We are working on, and are very close to completion of something which may stop Irish Rail. It might only work for a few months but it is likely to cause a serious rethink in Irish Rail. Can't say what it is yet in public.
Full details will be published here shortly after it has been completed.
I would also disagree with activities which are illegal, but I do think that some kind of protest needs to be made.
Something that will make the government know how contentious the issue of pay parking is to the commuter.
I'm open to suggestions, but we're running out of time.
Is there any way to host a selection of standard letters here which can be downloaded and posted to the Minster?
Maybe one to the minster and one to a national paper.
It's also good to hear that other approaches are being taken.
Thomas J Stamp
14-08-2008, 20:30
I would also disagree with activities which are illegal, but I do think that some kind of protest needs to be made.
Something that will make the government know how contentious the issue of pay parking is to the commuter.
I'm open to suggestions, but we're running out of time.
Is there any way to host a selection of standard letters here which can be downloaded and posted to the Minster?
Maybe one to the minster and one to a national paper.
It's also good to hear that other approaches are being taken.
I remember standing outside Ranks as a teenager protesting and nothing happened.
You can drive all you like, its a drop in the ocean.
People doing nothing is what they rely on. A good friend of mine said this evening "why, its the government, you cant beat them"
as Mark says, we think we can.
become a member - make it happen
The foundations for the ticket machines are now in place in Drogheda and on Tuesday NCPS decided to litter the place by putting a flyer on every car windscreen. They have probably done this everywhere but for those who have not seen the flyer its opening line was to confirm that the monies are being collected to pay for parking improvements. We will have to hold them to that.
Mark Hennessy
21-08-2008, 12:18
on Tuesday NCPS decided to litter the place by putting a flyer on every car windscreen.
So Irish Rail were happy to allow a leaflet to be placed on each car in the station? Interesting.
I've also seen them allow politicians quite happily block the entrances and hand out flyers too. I wonder do they have a consistent policy on this?
Mark Gleeson
21-08-2008, 12:18
Seriously now is the time for before and after photos folks
Take some photos of your car park send them onto us, then repeat 6 months later.
If they say they are going to improve the car park well lets hold them to it and be sure we can prove nothing was done
RadarControl
21-08-2008, 12:28
Nothing yet in Kildare. Kildare car-park has two nice big pot-holes. We will have to see if they get repaired with the money they collect. Will NCPS be cleaning up broken glass. There is one space in Kildare which had windscreen glass all over it for several months and still no sign of somebody cleaning up. Anybody got a start date for NCPS contract?
A neighbor of mine is a commerical grower and had to get planning permission to erect mini ploytene tunnels. These are no taller than a normal tyre on car. Should NCPS then be looking for planning permission to erect the Pay-Stations? Could object then and delay implementation.
Mark Gleeson
21-08-2008, 12:57
Sadly Irish Rail have all class of planning exemptions. Local authorities don't need planning permission on street parking pay and display
Photos people
We have photos of Monastervin, Hazelhatch and Edgewardstown (you know who you are thanks)
Ticket machines are now installed in Drogheda. It looks like they will have the system operational just in time for the annual September surge in commuter volume, which is nice. I wonder how long until Drogheda Town Council remove the 10 or so free parking spaces right outside the station?
The first thing that I noticed this morning was that they have already broken their promise to improve the carpark. A cursory glance showed at least two machines in what were previously perfectly good parking spaces so rather than make it better they have quickly reduced capacity.
Mark Hennessy
22-08-2008, 07:52
The first thing that I noticed this morning was that they have already broken their promise to improve the carpark. A cursory glance showed at least two machines in what were previously perfectly good parking spaces so rather than make it better they have quickly reduced capacity.
Remember this only about fleecing the commuters, not about providing any form of enhanced service.
Mark Hennessy
23-08-2008, 09:51
Anyone got anymore reports of stations having car parking installed?
Mark Hennessy
23-08-2008, 10:59
Ok folks,
We've attached a letter template on this issue.
Please take the time to fill it out and post it off to your local TD.
The only way to fight Irish Rail is to get politicians to shame them.
Please make the effort to send this to your local TD, only when they get pressure will they take action.
Otherwise we will be ripped off as usual.
http://railusers.ie/news/news.php?year=2008&no=16.html
From the Herald over the weekend
Rail users to pay €500 per year to park
By Kevin Doyle
Saturday August 23 2008
THE controversial decision by CIE to introduce parking charges at train stations has passed the point of no return.
Despite widespread criticism of the company's decision to force thousands of commuters to fork out up to €500 a year for parking, CIE has gone ahead with plans to purchase pay-and-display meters.
awarded
The company has issued notice that a contract for the "supply of pay-and-display machines for railway station car parks" has been awarded.
A spokesperson for CIE declined to reveal how much the contract is worth but according to the contract notice, they chose the "most economically advantageous tender". Five companies entered a bidding war for the lucrative contract,
It was eventually awarded to Elector Automotion Ltd from Mulhuddart.
The spokesperson has also confirmed to the Herald that the first stations to be hit will be along the northern line from Portmarnock to Dundalk on September 1.
The "park-and-ride" charges at dozens of other railway stations will be phased in between then and late October or early November.
Anyone caught flouting the charges will be liable for fines or clamping.
Approximately 150,000 people use commuter lines in and out of Dublin each day, with just under 5pc of these using station car parks, according to CIE.
CIE has already signed the contract with a Dublin-based company, Nationwide Contr- olled Parking Systems (NCPS).
That contract will run until November 2011.
CIE will receive a €1m-a-year slice of the revenue generated from the parking fees, but has refused to say -- for commercial reasons -- what the contract is worth to NCPS.
CAPITAL
Commuters to the capital from as far away as Longford and Gorey will be hit with the charges, where previously they could park for free.
It will cost €2 a day or a weekly parking ticket will be available for €8.
CIE has rejected suggestions that the charges will discourage commuters from using public transport.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/rail-users-to-pay-8364500-per-year-to-park-1461935.html
cheers Mark. Will send it off later to all Kildare North TD's
Mark Hennessy
25-08-2008, 12:36
cheers Mark. Will send it off later to all Kildare North TD's
Good stuff, be sure to alert as many fellow commuters as possible to this and get them writing too.
Laois Commuter
25-08-2008, 12:44
"Rail users to pay €500 per year to park
By Kevin Doyle
Saturday August 23 2008
THE controversial decision by CIE to introduce parking charges at train stations has passed the point of no return.
Despite widespread criticism of the company's decision to force thousands of commuters to fork out up to €500 a year for parking..."
"It will cost €2 a day or a weekly parking ticket will be available for €8."
€8 x 48 weeks is €384. Never let the facts get in the way of a good headline!
Don't see the problem. In the UK, where ripping off is an art form, stations will vary up to £8-10 per day with half decent facilities. Season ticket fares are also significantly higher than here, and there is absolutely no tax concession along the lines of Taxsaver - indeed, a Taxsaver type approach of part payment of wages with a season ticket can actually INCREASE tax liability.
Removing free parking is necessary, particularly with the increase in on-street car parking charges, where station car parks become a haven for those trying to avoid that, with no intention of travelling.
There are always options. Car share. Cycle. Walk. Divorce yourselves from the symbiotic relationship many in this country seem to have with their polluting, inefficent, metal boxes. It may take a little while longer, but the latter certainly will improve your health.
And yes, I do have a car. It sits on the drive most of the week. Does the shopping at weekends, and my wife may use it occasionally during the week - although she noramlly cycles into town. From living in the UK and doing 20000 miles per year, in an area with what here would be seen as good public transport of several modes, we live near a town with little or no public tranpsort, and few major shops - but our car mileage has dropped to less than 10000 miles per year, excluding occasional travel back to the UK. It can be done.
LC
Have I read this correctly? Irish Rail have engaged with two separate parties on this? First we have NCPS and now Elector Automotion Ltd have received an annual ticket for the gravy train? If they are not providing ticket machines then what exactly are NCPS adding to the party apart from sending a van round the stations to clamp the protestors and the forgetful?
Once again the arrogance astounds me. They want our money but can't be bothered to provide the service themselves and are quite happy to hand over the cash to two third parties.
Mark Hennessy
25-08-2008, 13:19
There are always options. Car share. Cycle. Walk. Divorce yourselves from the symbiotic relationship many in this country seem to have with their polluting, inefficent, metal boxes. It may take a little while longer, but the latter certainly will improve your health.
The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.
I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.
In other places, there does not even exist a foothpath or lighting to the station.
Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?
The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.
I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.
Its not that crap little feeder service that runs to/from Hazlehatch one in a blue moon at peak times, is it?
If it is its beyond a joke the decision-making process of the DOT under Dempsey has lowered itself to! :mad:
The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.
I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.
In other places, there does not even exist a foothpath or lighting to the station.
Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?
I heard that to. The bus company is JJ Kavanaghs. The buses can pick outside the 50kph zone but that's a good walk for some commuters where I am living. The bus would easily take several time longer than driving,
In Maynooth what is stopping people from parking on the road outside the train station? No yellow lines down. The housing estates will be filling up and the residents wont be happy.
In Maynooth what is stopping people from parking on the road outside the train station? No yellow lines down. The housing estates will be filling up and the residents wont be happy.
Ask residents beside Coolmine station for their opinions on this!
Mark Hennessy
25-08-2008, 13:40
I heard that to. The bus company is JJ Kavanaghs. The buses can pick outside the 50kph zone but that's a good walk for some commuters where I am living. The bus would easily take several time longer than driving,
Yeah the plan was to develop a Clane / Rathcoffey feeder service.
However it could only run from outside the boundary of Clane as Kavanaghs have a bus route from Clane to Naas. I don't know if Kavanaghs objected but this is the kind of crap obstacle that commuters trying to find an alternative to driving are finding.
Once again, the Government and the senior civil servants in the Department of Transport do not care about public transport because they don't have to use it.
In Maynooth what is stopping people from parking on the road outside the train station? No yellow lines down. The housing estates will be filling up and the residents wont be happy.
I'm not aware if there are double yellow lines or not but frustrated commuters I spoke to out and about put it forward as an idea.
Once again, the Government and the senior civil servants in the Department of Transport do not care about public transport because they don't have to use it.
And I doubt that they are professional transport planners or such. Politics before logic.
Laois Commuter
25-08-2008, 14:44
The problem is that the DoT are hampering other alternatives.
I discovered of a plan to develop a local feeder bus service to Maynooth from other North Kildare towns was shot down because another bus company runs a route that originates in one of the other North Kildare towns.
In other places, there does not even exist a foothpath or lighting to the station.
Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?
I don't deny bus licensing needs a shake up in this country. Splitting tendering and operation would be a start, and allowing proper commercial operation would be a goodsecond step. However, opinion on here in the past has demanded free public transport to the station. Why? Do you use your car for free? Do you have to pay a driver? Car parking has a cost. Car use has a cost. Public transport use should therefore have a cost (for all users, including seniors in my view - and I am less that 10 years from getting my pass). If people will only use it if it is free, then that says rather a lot about those people.
You conveniently ignore the car share option I raised, which would halve the cost potentially.
Re Newbridge, I suspect you could cycle to Newbridge from anywhere within the town in 15-20 minutes. I challenge anyone in the peak to - legally and safely - drive to Newlands Cross in that time. Then of course, you spend another 30 minutes getting to Red Cow... The train to Heuston would still be faster, and you can read, sleep (although some drivers on the N7 I admit manage to do both these along that road - or so it would seem).
If walking routes to stations are not good, put pressure on local councils to improve them. The elections are next year - in many years of dealing with politicians, even in the UK where they largely ignore the electorate, approaching elections tends to concentrate their minds.
I repeat, there is NEVER no alternative to single occupancy car use to access a railway station.
LC
Mark Hennessy
25-08-2008, 15:16
You conveniently ignore the car share option I raised, which would halve the cost potentially.
Re Newbridge, I suspect you could cycle to Newbridge from anywhere within the town in 15-20 minutes. I challenge anyone in the peak to - legally and safely - drive to Newlands Cross in that time.
I'm not ignoring it. All of your alternatives are perfectly valid, alas most people will not choose to use them and will migrate back to their cars. The car share is a great idea.
I walk to my station but i'm in the very lucky position of only being 10 minutes away from it. Given a moderately bad Irish day in winter, do you honestly see walking or cycling as a possibility before you board a potentially packed train to work if you have at least a 20 minute cycle ahead of you?
Also how many stations have fully operational and secure bike racks?
There are plenty of alternatives, however commuters are not being offered any alternatives beyond paying CIE to maintain the status quo.
Also, what about large towns like Newbridge, where the station is well out of town? Walking out to the station could take the same amount of time as it takes to get to Newlands cross. Whats the point of taking the train in that case?
I've said this before, but the station isn't well out of the town. It's easily within walking distance of a few large estates (concidentally I think where most of the commuters live in town). I know some estates are probably 30+ minites walk from the station though but in a town the size of Newbridge you're never going to get that. I know it's RUI "policy" that public transport shouldn't be more than 10 minutes walk away but I don't think that's ever going to be feasible.
Rather than writing to my local TD trying to abolish the charges, I'd be more inclined to write to my local TD asking him/her to see if they can encourage Irish Rail to set aside some of the money from the parking to improve bike parking facilities. Cycling would be an excellent alternative to the car in places like Newbridge.
I'm not ignoring it. All of your alternatives are perfectly valid, alas most people will not choose to use them and will migrate back to their cars.
If they choose to migrate back to their cars, then they should pay for it. Simple as.
Mark Gleeson
25-08-2008, 16:00
Rather than writing to my local TD trying to abolish the charges, I'd be more inclined to write to my local TD asking him/her to see if they can encourage Irish Rail to set aside some of the money from the parking to improve bike parking facilities. Cycling would be an excellent alternative to the car in places like Newbridge.
Best practice guidelines issued by the DTO are that secure covered bike parking should be provided, not a nice to have but a standard feature, since its a capital cost its paid for by the DoT. Irish Rail will be making a wonderful 0 euro from this deal, CIE property get the cash. I've cycled around Dublin in all weathers and you want to be seriously into your cycling.
The fact here is Irish Rail have made no effort to offer reasonable alternatives, there is a lack of local buses, the planned charging scheme makes no effort to prevent non rail users from using the car parks and still no word on the combined parking and travel taxsaver tickets.
Lots of promises of upgrades but most car parks will see nothing
The fact here is Irish Rail have made no effort to offer reasonable alternatives, there is a lack of local buses,
Is it in their remit to offer reasonable alternatives though?
And I've cycled in all weathers around Dublin and it's fine - the number of days that you actually get washed out are minimal, and for short journeys (10-15 minutes) it's actually ideal.
But if you've got a child in a buggy or if you're confined to a wheelchair or even if youre old age etc its not?
And I've cycled in all weathers around Dublin and it's fine - the number of days that you actually get washed out are minimal, and for short journeys (10-15 minutes) it's actually ideal.
But if you've got a child in a buggy or if you're confined to a wheelchair or even if youre old age etc its not?
It's my understanding that wheelchair spaces at stations will remain free of charge to badge holder and with the expansion of the car parks there should in theory be more of these spaces?
One benefit that might possibly come from these charges is less people using the car parks so there might be spaces at all times of the day, rather than up to 7am, which means people who might need to use them such as the above might get a space at any tiime.
Mark Gleeson
25-08-2008, 16:25
One benefit that might possibly come from these charges is less people using the car parks so there might be spaces at all times of the day, rather than up to 7am, which means people who might need to use them such as the above might get a space at any tiime.
Might is the opportune word
So if the goal is to free up space, why charge in Monastervin where the car park is less than half full all the time? Is it that they are greedy?
Might is the opportune word
So if the goal is to free up space, why charge in Monastervin where the car park is less than half full all the time? Is it that they are greedy?
In that case, yes they are greedy. I only support charging in high demand areas.
It's my understanding that wheelchair spaces at stations will remain free of charge to badge holder and with the expansion of the car parks there should in theory be more of these spaces?
One benefit that might possibly come from these charges is less people using the car parks so there might be spaces at all times of the day, rather than up to 7am, which means people who might need to use them such as the above might get a space at any tiime.
Thats some good news in terms of badge holders.
My point is, look at Hazelhatch station, for the 9-5ers who drive and indeed anyone else who drive they are catered for with a large car park. For the 9-5ers who dont drive you have a feeder bus service.
For everyone else, at all other times its either fork out on a taxi fare or its a long walk from Celbridge village along what is not the greatest of pathways/roadways.
Might explain why numbers are low from this station during the day and at weekends.
By the way, a feeder bus service is not always needed, if Bus companies can integrate stations into the routings of their core services?
Mark Gleeson
25-08-2008, 16:43
In that case, yes they are greedy. I only support charging in high demand areas.
New car park in Hazelhatch isn't full either, nor is the one in Gormanston. Never failed to get a space in Thurles or Templemore either (both on the phase 2 list of this). I'd challenge anyone to walk the unlit road with no pavement to Templemore station on a dark wet day just isn't safe.
End of the day the real solution here is to charge a painful rate for non rail users at all railway car parks and see how much space that clears up, that would be interesting
What i am wondering about in particular with an insufficient car park like coolmine station is what happens if you have a weekly car park ticket but there are no spaces left? Does that give you licence to park along the curb etc?
Are you entitled to a refund?
Mark Gleeson
27-08-2008, 08:36
Of course not its just like the train, if you can't get on thats not their problem.
Yes but its not like being able to get on the next train that car park would be full for most of the day.
By the way will you be able to use any of the irish rail car parks with this ticket if you get it from a certain station?
Yes but its not like being able to get on the next train that car park would be full for most of the day.
By the way will you be able to use any of the irish rail car parks with this ticket if you get it from a certain station?
Mark do you know if the terms and conditions/bye laws for the new pay car parking is out yet?
Would be an interesting read. :rolleyes:
AndrewMc
27-08-2008, 10:28
From the Herald over the weekend
CIE has rejected suggestions that the charges will discourage commuters from using public transport.
As I said before, this is simply untrue. The parking charges push the prices of rail travel within spitting distance of driving for my wife and I travelling together. And door-to-door, the car is much faster.
As I said before, this is simply untrue. The parking charges push the prices of rail travel within spitting distance of driving for my wife and I travelling together. And door-to-door, the car is much faster.
Agreed.
While this may not impact much on areas such as the DART line and Maynooth line where time is more a factor (where driving to work via the n3 and n4 is bad, watch out for next week! look at times from clonsilla to city bus v train) It seems to me that IE are taking advantage of this factor.
However the Gorey line in particular has it bad enough at the moment without futher dragging people back into the cars, the bypass is an incentive for them to do that!
Its a delicate balancing act to try and encourage people to travel to the station by walking, cycling, lift or bus (where available - a whole other story) while also not discouraging passengers from opting to drive altogether.
I agree with IE charging for car parking but I think they have got their priorities wrong and also the price and price structure is not in keeping with my above statement.
In a lot of cases of commuting by car in Dublin either the origin of the journey or the final destination are adequately served by public transport but not both. Then the issue of integration raises its ugly head.
Even after the rail catchment areas are expanded a whole mindset change will also need to happen before we leave our cars at home. Charging for parking in the stations, no matter how well structured, will not be enough.
Mark Hennessy
27-08-2008, 11:01
Outside of the suburban areas folks are paying a lot of money for a monthly ticket (in some cases up to €200 per month), now they are being charged at least another €32 per month for the same service.
Its not just just a case of people within towns not walking or cycling to the train but also the estates that were allowed spring up in small villages miles away from train stations where there was never any public transport in place. Yet this was all allowed go ahead by the local authorities and the govt.
Now all of these people are being hit with a choice, stump up the extra cash for CIE property development or as AndrewMc pointed out, go back to the car.
Some choice.
Signs are now up in stations along the Northern Line to tell us that car parking charges will be in force from Monday September 1. It does not mention the clamping fee but I am pretty sure I remember Barry Kenny saying it is a punishing €160 or €180.
I can only speak about my own experience in Drogheda but I can't see this putting people off the train. Even if you get free parking in Dublin the petrol alone would cost more than the combined tax saver fare and train station parking. I can only hope that this will put off those who can walk to the station. I know a few who are now going to leave the car at home and if there are enough of them it might leave a few spaces every morning. My biggest gripe about getting the train is the necessity to leave early to get parking so maybe this will give me the option of an extra hour in bed.
Colm Moore
27-08-2008, 17:12
As I said before, this is simply untrue. The parking charges push the prices of rail travel within spitting distance of driving for my wife and I travelling together. And door-to-door, the car is much faster.But you live within cycling distance of the station. And what of parking charges at the city end?
I think the challenge is to force IÉ to provide the extra facilities.
Somebody made a lovely little blunder on the signs in Drogheda station. NCPS have put up nice big posters and Irish Rail decided to add their own bit with a few A4 size passenger notices printed off a computer. They begin by reminding us to pay for our parking on Monday morning and sign off with "Iarnród Éireann would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused".
Over zealous cut-and-paste or a classic Freudian slip?
RadarControl
28-08-2008, 11:25
Is Pay-Parking coming to all stations from Monday or is it just Drogheda? No signs or Pay Machines have appeared in Kildare in relation to it yet.
Mark Gleeson
28-08-2008, 11:27
Northern line only on Monday from what we have heard
Will be making a trip to photograph most of the car parks in an effort to record the current state for the before and after
coffeedrinker
28-08-2008, 11:35
I can only hope that this will put off those who can walk to the station. I know a few who are now going to leave the car at home and if there are enough of them it might leave a few spaces every morning. My biggest gripe about getting the train is the necessity to leave early to get parking so maybe this will give me the option of an extra hour in bed.
Everywhere is within walking distance of a train station (it might take hours to walk there) but what one person's walking distance is, is different than anothers. I live 'within walking distance' of the station - yet I drive - I normally have something to do after work and don't head straight home - should I not use the car park at the station even if I;m willing to pay for it. - I pay my taxes just like everyone else!!
I live 10 miles away from my station.
A bit far for me to walk.
Maynooth car park is full of holes. I would be surprised to see it been resurfaced.
I'll just have to park on the Staffen road outside as no yellow lines
Laois Commuter
28-08-2008, 13:59
I live 10 miles away from my station.
A bit far for me to walk.
Maynooth car park is full of holes. I would be surprised to see it been resurfaced.
I'll just have to park on the Staffen road outside as no yellow lines
So you choose to live 10 miles from the station. Why should you be subsidised by those who live closer? When looking for my current home, walking distance to the station was one of the criteria I used.
There has been little cash for maintenance I suspect (repairs come under maintenance, not capital works). This is an attempt to address it - but the revenue stream is needed first.
Car use has a cost, and why such users feel that they should not have to pay is beyond me. I would love to see the irate responses if UK levels of station parking charges were implemented - see my earlier post.
LC
So you choose to live 10 miles from the station. Why should you be subsidised by those who live closer? When looking for my current home, walking distance to the station was one of the criteria I used.
There has been little cash for maintenance I suspect (repairs come under maintenance, not capital works). This is an attempt to address it - but the revenue stream is needed first.
Car use has a cost, and why such users feel that they should not have to pay is beyond me. I would love to see the irate responses if UK levels of station parking charges were implemented - see my earlier post.
LC
I would love to get the Bus Eireann bus to work but that doesn't go near where I work cause all it goes to Busaras and leaves from there.
What do you mean by why should I be subsidised?
The car park in Maynooth has been there for years. They are not buying any extra land. As been said before all this is pay parking is extra money for IR.
dowlingm
28-08-2008, 22:22
this issue has just raised its head here too (http://metronauts.ca/2008/08/26/no-free-parking-at-ttc-lots/), albeit more in the withdrawal of free parking for pass holders. TTC lots cost more to operate (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/485476) though because of snow removal costs and that some parking is on leased land.
What do you mean by why should I be subsidised?
Maintaining car parks costs money. If you don't pay to park, then you are being subsidised.
Of course, the car parks in train stations haven't been well maintained so far, but maybe this revenue stream will change this.
Mark Gleeson
28-08-2008, 22:47
Other way to look at is why is Irish Rail facilitating non rail users in the car park
They have made no efforts to block non passenger usage, if they where serious about providing a proper car park facility for rail passengers that would be the first thing to do. In many cases it would free up a lot of space without impacting on the long suffering and already overcharged commuter.
If I shop in the shopping centre and buy something I get free parking, if I buy nothing I pay. Everyone has a train ticket so why can't they work it out
I had a wee look at the ticket machines this morning. They accept coins only and do not issue change. Not exactly making it easy for the customer. I find it hard enough to find change for a shopping trolley, never mind a load of coins every single Monday morning. If they take 10c coins I am going to get a bag load of them at the bank and feed 80 of them in every week.
Laois Commuter
29-08-2008, 08:10
Other way to look at is why is Irish Rail facilitating non rail users in the car park
They have made no efforts to block non passenger usage, if they where serious about providing a proper car park facility for rail passengers that would be the first thing to do. In many cases it would free up a lot of space without impacting on the long suffering and already overcharged commuter.
If I shop in the shopping centre and buy something I get free parking, if I buy nothing I pay. Everyone has a train ticket so why can't they work it out
How? You have already I believe indicated that they have no powers to fine. That problem has started to appear as on-street parking charging has been introduced, and motorists have lost their chance of free parking elsewhere. If I did use my car to get to the station, I would be pretty annoyed (as a season ticket holder) to have to queue and get a voucher or token of some sort every day to access the car park.
As regards "overcharged commuters", sorry, that doesn't wash. As I indicated earlier, season tickets are cheap here compared to the UK for example, even before the Taxsaver scheme knocks nearly 50% off the price for many. Go to www.nationalrail.co.uk , and compare Sheffield - Nottingham (£2116 - approx €2645) with Portarlington - Dublin, even at current exchange rates. Level of service on the former is roughly hourly, two coach, unit stock with buffet trolley (sometimes), so the service is comparable; much as dislike the new trains here, they are streets ahead of the trains on this route.
A Portarlington - Dublin Heuston annual costs €2210. Assuming 47 weeks use, 5 days per week, that works out at €47 per week, or about €9.40 per day. That is 11c per mile (assuming 40 miles each way) - and that is before taxsaver. You cannot come near to running a car for that.
LC
Mark Hennessy
29-08-2008, 08:11
I had a wee look at the ticket machines this morning. They accept coins only and do not issue change. Not exactly making it easy for the customer. I find it hard enough to find change for a shopping trolley, never mind a load of coins every single Monday morning. If they take 10c coins I am going to get a bag load of them at the bank and feed 80 of them in every week.
Were there many machines at all?
So now we will see massive queues and commuter frustration as they all must queue each Monday morning.
So much for the new ads on taking the relaxing train over the car.
So you choose to live 10 miles from the station. Why should you be subsidised by those who live closer? When looking for my current home, walking distance to the station was one of the criteria I used.
Car use has a cost, and why such users feel that they should not have to pay is beyond me. I would love to see the irate responses if UK levels of station parking charges were implemented - see my earlier post.
LC
I live near Slane, approximately 11 miles from Drogheda train station. I do so because of family, my wife's job and my children's school. I am not going to move house and force my children onto a school bus.
Slane is slap-bang on the N2 and just 30 miles from O'Connell Street but public transport is simply not provided. Check it out. If you can find a way for me to get to Dublin before 9am without having to drive to either Drogheda train or bus stations or Navan for the bus then let me know. I have tried them all, including the private bus service that runs right through Slane, but only the train can get me to work on time and home again at a reasonable time.
As for your comments on UK levels of parking charges, you are correct about this (my brother-in-law pays £30 per week in Milton Keynes) but of what relevance is it here? Our trains do not copy the UK in terms of speed and service levels so why would they copy the car parking charges?
Were there many machines at all?
So now we will see massive queues and commuter frustration as they all must queue each Monday morning.
So much for the new ads on taking the relaxing train over the car.
There are a fair number of machines dotted all over the car park so I don't see queuing being a problem. Of course if you get five people ahead of you and the train is leaving in a minute and the rain is lashing down and then you have to go back to the car to display the ticket...well only time will tell how smoothly it runs.
I am going to look at avoiding this by buying a weekly ticket in the evening. If I buy a ticket on a Monday morning then it should be valid right through until the same time the next Monday? Am I right? In that case if I buy a ticket on a Monday evening before leaving the station then it should be good right through until the following Monday evening when I get off again?
Mark Gleeson
29-08-2008, 08:55
I am going to look at avoiding this by buying a weekly ticket in the evening. If I buy a ticket on a Monday morning then it should be valid right through until the same time the next Monday? Am I right? In that case if I buy a ticket on a Monday evening before leaving the station then it should be good right through until the following Monday evening when I get off again?
We don't know until we see a weekly ticket
We don't know until we see a weekly ticket
The weekly tickets in Sallins are valid for exactly 7 days, to the minute.
Other way to look at is why is Irish Rail facilitating non rail users in the car park
They have made no efforts to block non passenger usage, if they where serious about providing a proper car park facility for rail passengers that would be the first thing to do. In many cases it would free up a lot of space without impacting on the long suffering and already overcharged commuter.
If I shop in the shopping centre and buy something I get free parking, if I buy nothing I pay. Everyone has a train ticket so why can't they work it out
Are non rail users using rail car parks really that much of a problem at the moment?
The rules on shopping centre car parking vary from centre to centre, most of them seem to charge whether you buy anything or not.
Laois Commuter
29-08-2008, 10:13
I live near Slane, approximately 11 miles from Drogheda train station. I do so because of family, my wife's job and my children's school. I am not going to move house and force my children onto a school bus.
Slane is slap-bang on the N2 and just 30 miles from O'Connell Street but public transport is simply not provided. Check it out. If you can find a way for me to get to Dublin before 9am without having to drive to either Drogheda train or bus stations or Navan for the bus then let me know. I have tried them all, including the private bus service that runs right through Slane, but only the train can get me to work on time and home again at a reasonable time.
As for your comments on UK levels of parking charges, you are correct about this (my brother-in-law pays £30 per week in Milton Keynes) but of what relevance is it here? Our trains do not copy the UK in terms of speed and service levels so why would they copy the car parking charges?
Obviously I do not know your work times, but this link http://www.collinscoaches.ie/timetable.html appears to offer connections covering most commutes. They appear to arrive on time - I have seen them in Dublin. Took me 5 minutes to find.
LC
LC
Mark Gleeson
29-08-2008, 10:18
Are non rail users using rail car parks really that much of a problem at the moment?
The rules on shopping centre car parking vary from centre to centre, most of them seem to charge whether you buy anything or not.
It depends on the station. I'm told its a problem in Kildare and other places. It seems very unfair not to specifically address this issue now. As we have pointed out the charge won't have any impact on this as it will be significantly less than the local authorities charge.
Point is quite simple, car park is for rail passengers. You could setup a exit barrier to take train tickets, if you have no ticket you pay say €5. Of course if you travelled ticketless you get caught with the charge which seems fair, for most greater Dublin region the €5 would still be less than a single ticket
It depends on the station. I'm told its a problem in Kildare and other places. It seems very unfair not to specifically address this issue now. As we have pointed out the charge won't have any impact on this as it will be significantly less than the local authorities charge.
Point is quite simple, car park is for rail passengers. You could setup a exit barrier to take train tickets, if you have no ticket you pay say €5. Of course if you travelled ticketless you get caught with the charge which seems fair, for most greater Dublin region the €5 would still be less than a single ticket
That would be a great idea. On weekends then would you charge an add on fee for parking?
Obviously I do not know your work times, but this link http://www.collinscoaches.ie/timetable.html appears to offer connections covering most commutes. They appear to arrive on time - I have seen them in Dublin. Took me 5 minutes to find.
LC
LC
I have tried them. Unfortunately their first evening arrival in Slane is 18:30 which is a bit too late. My current commute sees me get off the train in Drogheda at 17:20 and arrive in Slane at about 17:50.
Laois Commuter
29-08-2008, 12:26
I have tried them. Unfortunately their first evening arrival in Slane is 18:30 which is a bit too late. My current commute sees me get off the train in Drogheda at 17:20 and arrive in Slane at about 17:50.
Fine. But again, that is your choice. It is rather different to your earlier post "but there is no public transport provided." There is - you choose to go a different way.
OTOH, there is a bus to McGruders Cross, which is 1-2 minutes running time away according to the timetable; not more than 10 minutes walk I would suggest, although I do not know the geography, which gets there at 1743....
LC
A Portarlington - Dublin Heuston annual costs €2210. Assuming 47 weeks use, 5 days per week, that works out at €47 per week, or about €9.40 per day. That is 11c per mile (assuming 40 miles each way) - and that is before taxsaver. You cannot come near to running a car for that.
It would be really nice if the €2210 (less tax) was the only charge for everyone, though. :rolleyes:
Hubby and I are going to drive from next year on. The €384 parking charge is the main deciding factor, unfortunately. I honestly weighed up the pros and cons of continuing to commute via rail, but unfortunately it's no contest anymore.
Here's our reckoning (lets assume we live in a dream world where the ticket prices don't rise next year ;) :rolleyes:):
Current commute by rail/bus:
Our annual rail passes would cost €4620. (€2210+€2210+one bus add-on of €200)
With 41% taxsaver, we'd actually pay only €2725.80.
Adding 48 weeks parking @ €8 per week (€384) and you get €3109.80 per annum.
Add to this, the cost of driving in and out to the station every day:
2.2km (per Google Maps) x 10 journeys/week = 22km/week or 1056km/year.
Car gets 15km per litre petrol (conservative average town/country driving - we drive a titchy, economical little car!:D), so at petrol estimate of €1.33 per litre (let's suppose it goes up again:(), that's an additional €93.63 per annum.
When we get into Heuston, I would take the 92 or walk if the weather's good, so my ticket would be covered by my bus add-on of €200. However, my husband needs to take 2 buses to get to work (3 days a week), so he uses a Travel 90 ticket, costing €1.70 each way. This is an additional €10.20 per week, or €489.60 per annum.
Grand total for our 48 week year is then €3109.80 (train) + €93.63 (petrol to/from station) + €489.60 (Dublin Bus) = €3693.03, or €76.94 per week.
Switching to a commute by car is as follows:
Route to work, including a little detour on days he travels, and drops me off: 74.19km each way 3 days a week and 69.89km each way 2 days a week (per AA RoutePlanner) = 724.7km/week. Given our 15km/litre, that takes about 48.31 litres of petrol, and costed again at, say, €1.33, that's €64.26 per week, or €3084.32 per annum.
So we have €3693.03 per 48-week annum for the train/bus option, and €3084.32 for the driving option, saving about €608.71 - little more than the cost of the parking charge, you might say, ASSUMING ticket prices for rail and bus stay the same next year - and that's not going to happen, is it?
However, when you consider the commute times as follows:
Daily commute by rail/bus:
(Average daily commute times we currently do most often than not when we have to drive)
Inbound:
Him: Dep. 07.30, Arr. 09.40 = 2 hours 10 minutes
Her: Dep. 07.30, Arr. 09.15 = 1 hour 45 minutes
Outbound:
Him: Dep. 17.00, Arr. 19.30 = 2 hours 30 minutes
Her: Dep. 17.30, Arr. 19.30 = 2 hours
Total time: 8 hours 25 minutes
Daily commute by car:
(Maximum trip times encountered to date - for example, Monday mornings through school term times, and Friday evenings)
Inbound:
Him: Dep. 06.30, Arr. 08.00 = 1 hour 30 minutes
Her: Dep. 06.30, Arr. 07.45 = 1 hour 15 minutes
Outbound:
Him: Dep. 16.00, Arr. 17.45 = 1 hour 45 minutes
Her: Dep. 16.15, Arr. 17.45 = 1 hour 30 minutes
Total time: 6 hours
I know we have to leave earlier than usual, but we get home earlier too (both have flexible working hours). If we leave at 7am, it takes about 20 minutes longer to get in, at 7.30am, it takes about 35 minutes longer to get in, but leaving at 8am, we can add only an additional 20 minutes or so, but then we wouldn't be able to leave early in the evening, and as the journey time is quite unpredictable leaving Dublin city centre past 4.30pm, at that stage it could take about 2 hours to get home (which is still as quick as the train!), but we'd be better off having supper in Dublin and waiting past rush hour until about 6.30pm before leaving, as it would be more pleasurable than sitting in the traffic.
As well as this, we're currently paying for our annual tickets, but we find that we often have to drive 2, 3 or 4 times a month anyway, as we will want to go out in Dublin for a gig or a meal or to see friends/family, and there is simply no train to get us home afterwards.
So that's why we're back in the car from next January. Oh, that and the antisocial muppets who use the train :mad: - smokers, and rail staff who just don't care about it, crappy-noisy-earbud-wearers (the byelaw-breaking tools!), Crazy Frog ringtone users, hen and stag parties getting p*ssed, the queueing at Heuston for seats some (most?) days, the late boarding of trains, cancellation of trains, bus transfers, school tours booking up whole carriages at a time, waiting in the rain for buses to/from Heuston, etc., etc., etc. - all things we were willing to put up with in the past.
At least in the car, I don't have to queue, it's always clean (ish!:o), it's always quiet (or I have music of MY choice!) and dry, and there's no antisocial gobshytes (unless I'm being particularly cranky!) :D
I know the roads can have problems too - pile-ups, slow moving traffic in adverse weather, stress of dealing with some stoopit road-users, etc., but honestly, we feel it'll be less painful than the train has become.
I'm not arguing that cars are the perfect way to go - far from it - I LOVE trains, and I take them all over Europe (including the gorgeous sleepers!) in preference to any other form of transport, but this latest charge (for what really is a crappy, crappy parking facility) is just a step too far for me, I'm sad to say.:(
ACustomer
29-08-2008, 14:50
Rusalka: your costings are seriously wrong in one crucial respect. You estimate motoring costs purely on the basis of fuel (15 kms per litre), i.e. less than 10 cents per km. What about extra depreciation, maintanance, tyre wear, etc etc? There are good estimates of costs per km published in recent editions of the Iriah Times motoring supplement. These work out at a minimum of close to 35 cents per km. So go and do some serious re-calculation or you may be about to make an unwise decision.
AndrewMc
29-08-2008, 14:53
But you live within cycling distance of the station. And what of parking charges at the city end?
I think the challenge is to force IÉ to provide the extra facilities.
Indeed. There are no bike racks in Athy, and I've no parking charges where I work in Dublin.
Rusalka: your costings are seriously wrong in one crucial respect. You estimate motoring costs purely on the basis of fuel (15 kms per litre), i.e. less than 10 cents per km. What about extra depreciation, maintanance, tyre wear, etc etc? There are good estimates of costs per km published in recent editions of the Iriah Times motoring supplement. These work out at a minimum of close to 35 cents per km. So go and do some serious re-calculation or you may be about to make an unwise decision.
Another advantage of the car in some cases is that it offers far greater flexibility than public transport. This is due to our poor coverage and integration but for example I would rarely go straight home after work be it lectures, meetings, training etc. Public transport does not give a lot of people that flexibility and in most cases it would take far longer.
There is no 'one solution' to making people less car dependant but rather several which all have to be coordinated in their approach and implementation.
Rusalka: your costings are seriously wrong in one crucial respect. You estimate motoring costs purely on the basis of fuel (15 kms per litre), i.e. less than 10 cents per km. What about extra depreciation, maintanance, tyre wear, etc etc? There are good estimates of costs per km published in recent editions of the Iriah Times motoring supplement. These work out at a minimum of close to 35 cents per km. So go and do some serious re-calculation or you may be about to make an unwise decision.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 35 cents per km would be more than the car was worth!!!! Per annum!!! Twice over!!! I certainly take your point, but I don't think that's at all realistic, somehow. Certainly not for our car! ;) :D :D
We've driven 25000km in the car so far. That's ~ €8960 depreciation or cost of ownership by your estimation (I read that article, actually, and I think they agreed themselves it was a hard thing to quantify, and certainly not a science), but anyway, the car cost about €7000. CMV of the car is now worth about €5800 - €6000 after just over 2 years driving.
At 35 cents per km, you're looking at over €12,000 per annum in cost of ownership alone, if that article is to be believed. That's a bit mad, in all fairness - sure if that was the case I'd be buying a newer (to me!), better car every year! :D
Lord help us, maybe that's the cost of owning a feckin' Rolls or something, but my car costs nowhere near that! We've lost about €1000+ in depreciation, put 1 new set of tyres under it, and with minor servicing, NCT, etc., but it still works out at only about 8c/km, plus petrol so far.
No, I do see the point you're trying to make, but I think it depends a lot on the car. I don't buy 17" tyres, for example! :D
Fine. But again, that is your choice. It is rather different to your earlier post "but there is no public transport provided." There is - you choose to go a different way.
OTOH, there is a bus to McGruders Cross, which is 1-2 minutes running time away according to the timetable; not more than 10 minutes walk I would suggest, although I do not know the geography, which gets there at 1743....
LC
True, but that is a suicidal walk along the N2 and you would then need a canoe to cross the Boyne as there is no footpath over it. As for choosing not to use the public transport from Slane, I don't see that there is a choice at all. An extra 40 minutes per day to get the bus from my door compared to driving 11 miles to the train? No choice at all to be made there.
Anyway, never mind. I'll be paying my €8 on Monday morning wether I like it or not, end of story.
Laois Commuter
29-08-2008, 15:30
Rusalka: your costings are seriously wrong in one crucial respect. You estimate motoring costs purely on the basis of fuel (15 kms per litre), i.e. less than 10 cents per km. What about extra depreciation, maintanance, tyre wear, etc etc? There are good estimates of costs per km published in recent editions of the Iriah Times motoring supplement. These work out at a minimum of close to 35 cents per km. So go and do some serious re-calculation or you may be about to make an unwise decision.
Yep. Even ignoring the "fixed costs" of insurance, tax, and part of the depreciation, servicing intervals will be reduced, tyre replacement will increase, and the journey time may not be quite as reliable as journey planners may suggest. I would also query 15km/litre in the real world - unless you are driving a hybrid, or sticking rigidly to 90km/h or thereabouts on the M7 which I find unlikely. Traffic queues in Dublin would also seriously increase fuel use due to stop start driving.
The cost I worked out was to compare the ticket costs with the UK, to refute the "over-charged" element of the post I quoted. 47 weeks was used, not the 48 you have used, on the basis of 4 weeks annual leave, plus bank holidays, which is the norm.
If you can get to work on the 92, use a bike. I do when working in a city centre office - it takes 10-15 minutes to get to Stephens Green or the ILFC. If I have to go to Dundrum or Stillorgan, I cycle to the Green and get the LUAS. Cycling costs nothing apart from a squirt of oil and new brake pads every now and then.
LC
A flashback [this is in relation to the lack of facilities securitywise and no proper maintenanceetc.]
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rail-chiefs-promise-motorists-extra-car-parking-1254241.html
Rail chiefs promise motorists extra car parking
By Treacy Hogan and Shane Hickey
Friday December 28 2007
RAIL commuters forced to park their cars at supermarkets and churches before running for the train are being promised more than 13,000 parking spaces at stations.
Drivers will have to pay, but at much lower rates than commercial car parks.
Rail chiefs have drawn up plans to provide new pay-parking facilities at over 60 stations, many of which are packed by 7.30am daily.
The move coincides with major increases in frequencies and capacities of services planned across the network under Transport 21.
The additional spaces will meet current demand and allow for further expansion into the future.
A spokesperson for Iarnrod Eireann said yesterday the spaces will cost €2 a day or €5 a week. The revenue will be used for maintenance of the car parks and the provision of CCTV.
Belt
Highlights of the proposals include: the largest public transport park and ride facility in the country; a 1,200 space car park, north of Dunboyne at the M3 interchange -- the terminus for the Clonsilla-Dunboyne (M3) line, which will serve the wider area of Co Meath and beyond.
It will also feaure major car parks at new stations such as Dunboyne, Midleton, Carrigtwohill, Dunkettle, Clondalkin's Fonthill Road and Oranmore, as well as enhancements to parking at over 50 existing stations, including over 20 in the greater Dublin commuter belt.
As well as expanding car park facilities, work will incorporate enhanced bicycle facilities, and CCTV and other security features.
The programme will be phased in over the coming five years and will be prioritised according to demand, land availability and as planning permission allows.
Dr John Lynch, CIE and Iarnrod Eireann chairman, said yesterday: "It is critical that we open up the benefits of rail investment to as wide a catchment area as possible through the development of quality car park facilities.
"Although this programme addresses over 60 stations, we will continue to seek opportunities for further car park development around our network," he added.
Transport Minister Noel Dempsey TD said: "People can feel re-assured that they can leave their car at a station and take the train to work, thus reducing the hassle of getting in and out of work and improving their commuting experience."
- Treacy Hogan and Shane Hickey
I don't know if mentioned atall but Greystones have all the luck!
Free parking available
Thursday July 24 2008
Greystones commuters will still be able to avail of free parking at the Park n Ride site that is situated within walking distance of the Dart Station.It was announced last week by Irish Rail that charges will be introduced to Park n Ride sites owned by Irish Rail.
Greystones commuters will still be able to avail of free parking at the Park n Ride site that is situated within walking distance of the Dart Station.
It was announced last week by Irish Rail that charges will be introduced to Park n Ride sites owned by Irish Rail.
Councillor Derek Mitchell has welcomed the decision by Wicklow County Council to continue their policy of free parking at their Park n Ride site in Greystones.
The large car park, that is one of the biggest in Ireland with 462 spaces, will remain a free parking site.
Many commuters in Greystones have been confused by the announcement and feared that they would have to pay for parking at the Dart Station.
Local councillors and Wicklow County Council would like to assure commuters that there will be no changes to the free Park n Ride in Greystones.
Mark Gleeson
29-08-2008, 16:32
Rusalka: your costings are seriously wrong in one crucial respect. You estimate motoring costs purely on the basis of fuel (15 kms per litre), i.e. less than 10 cents per km. What about extra depreciation, maintanance, tyre wear, etc etc? There are good estimates of costs per km published in recent editions of the Iriah Times motoring supplement. These work out at a minimum of close to 35 cents per km. So go and do some serious re-calculation or you may be about to make an unwise decision.
Valid point, however you have to drive to the station so the fixed cost of insurance and so on is equal on both options.
Equally as the car is faster there is a value to be gained there.
Equally as the car is faster there is a value to be gained there.
Generally the car is faster than the train only if the user leaves at crazy hour of the morning. E.g I get the 0823 Newbridge - Heuston, usually gets in in 35-40 minutes. You would be hard pushed to get from Newbridge to Heuston in a car at that hour of the morning in the same time.
Thomas J Stamp
30-08-2008, 10:17
I don't buy 17" tyres, for example! :D
sadly I do, and at over a hundred euro each I have plenty of reason to curse the local authorities of the midlands.
As someone who drives well over 50k a year I just tend to ignore all this depreciation thing. If you start off with a second hand car a few years old then the base line foe depreciation is off kilter to start with. Add to that the emo factor that date-definitive registration brings on and you end up with a shaky science to start with. My car is officially worth nothing here, but up in Dublin it's valuable to a taxi driver, for example.
Colm Moore
30-08-2008, 19:57
I had a wee look at the ticket machines this morning. They accept coins only and do not issue change. Not exactly making it easy for the customer. I find it hard enough to find change for a shopping trolley, never mind a load of coins every single Monday morning. If they take 10c coins I am going to get a bag load of them at the bank and feed 80 of them in every week.This only really hurts you. They have machines to count it.
Thomas Ralph
30-08-2008, 21:57
And they probably do something like the Luas machines and only take a maximum of X coins.
Mark Gleeson
31-08-2008, 09:20
And they probably do something like the Luas machines and only take a maximum of X coins.
Luas machines work on the basis that if you cancel a transaction you get back the exact coins you put in which does impose a limit
Pay and display machines aren't normally that clever
Mark Gleeson
31-08-2008, 21:06
Game is afoot from tomorrow
Park-and-ride charges from tomorrow
Controversial park-and-ride charges at nine commuter train stations come into effect from tomorrow.
Dublin bound rail travellers on the northern line from Dundalk to Portmarnock will be hit with the two euro a day fee.
The other 28 stations from Longford to Gorey also planning to charge will be operational by November.
The plan, which transport body CIE said would finance a car-park expansion scheme, was heavily criticised when it was announced in July with transport lobby groups branding it unacceptable.
Mark Gleeson, spokesman for Rail Users Ireland, said: “It’s absolutely ridiculous.
“People are going to arrive in the car park tomorrow morning and they are going to be faced with a pay and display machine.
“It’s bad enough that you have to pay for your ticket but now you have to queue to use a pay and display machine.
“The worst thing of all is that you elect to be cost aware and buy a weekly ticket, but there’s no guarantee there’s going to be a car space for you every day.”
CIE will receive a €1 million euro-a-year slice of the revenue generated from the parking fees with commuters charged two euro a day or a discounted rate of €8 a week.
The body said the revenue would be put towards a major programme of car park expansion by Iarnrod Eireann.
But Mr Gleeson hit out the justification claiming the organisation has not detailed which stations will be upgraded.
“Irish rail have presented no list of what car parks will be upgraded or in what order and what it will comprise. It’s all aspirational,” he said.
Rail Users Ireland said it is considering taking legal action against CIE over the scheme although it is not clear on what that will be based.
Fine Gael’s Transport spokesman Fergus O’Dowd branded the charges a rip-off and has called for a cut in government subsidies to CIE.
“While I have no problem charging people who park at railway stations infrequently, it is extremely unfair on those who have already bought weekly, monthly or annual travel tickets for their commute, so they should be exempt from the charge,” he said.
“Many commuters either walk or cycle to their local station, but this is not always possible and many have no alternative but to park and ride as there are very few bus links to railway stations.
“There has been no public consultation on this new system, which will hit commuters who are already finding their take home pay reduced because of the spiralling cost of living.”
The stations where pay parking will be introduced tomorrow are: Dundalk, Drogheda, Laytown, Balbriggan, Skerries, Rush & Lusk, Donabate, Malahide and Portmarnock on the northern line.
An Iarnrod Eireann spokesman said the remaining stations will come into effect by November.
PA
© 2008 irishtimes.com
weehamster
31-08-2008, 23:32
This could be a great opportunity for a private operator to start up a local shuttle bus service.
My Sister has a house south of Gorey, and there is a handy regular private shuttle bus service that bring you in/out of Gorey (going by the train station). Now I'm not sure if they do commuter hours, but they should, especially when the Rosslare line starts charging. Now imaging this at other stations.
Imagine tiny villages linking up with a rail station. Oh I would be in public transport utopia. I would think I was living in Germany or Switzerland. :rolleyes:
dowlingm
01-09-2008, 04:22
except IE should be paying for the buses with the P&R fees, not using it as a general cash grab.
There were noticeably less cars in Drogheda car park at 6:45 this morning. It was quieter than during the best of the summer holiday lull. Considerably less passengers boarded all along the route much to the delight of some people in Rush and Lusk whose bums have not seen a seat in years.
Maybe it was just a quiet Monday morning but with the schools back there should have been a lot more people. I can't believe that many will drive to Dublin because of 8 euro a week. Give it a week or two of traffic jams and I am sure the crowds will be back.
Mark Hennessy
01-09-2008, 09:10
Typically there is no info I can see on the Irish Rail website.
No mention of the stations affected today, no mention of the next series of stations to be affected and what dates.
No FAQs for those who will need to pay the charges.
(E.g Q. If I buy a weekly ticket will I be certain of a parking space?
A. Of course not. )
No mention of the enhanced car parking facilities the new charges will help pay for, nothing at all, just hand over the money and get on your train without a whimper please.
Should we be surprised at all?
Just like the DARTTXT scam should IE be forced to put a note on the pay parking notices that buying a weekly ticket doesn't garauntee you a car park space?
It's a turn up and find out mentality.
Im working on a masterplan for a shopping centre in Dublin at the moment and the future of all car parks in Ireland will be ticket controlled car parks. The current incentives are for people to stay less than one hour or 2 as most pricing systems operate with first hour or two free etc.
However you will soon see the short term visitors being penalised with the idea that shoppers should shop less often for longer thus creating less daily traffic.
I very much doubt you will see the US style 'store validation' come in here but parking management is a very big business nowadays.
Alas with Rail stations its not as straightforward. The theory should be that people living within walking distance shouldnt be parking. A fee of some sort would definitely be an incentive for them to leave their car at home.
Should short term stay passengers be penalised over all day commuters etc? Ideally the holder of a monthly or annual pass should be treated as a valuable customer and any parking 'add-on' to their ticket should work out cheaper than for someone like say on a one day tripper or weekly ticket holder.
it could work both ways in this sense - it would encourage buying monthly or annual tickets and thus more train usage and also it would discourage once off day trippers from parking..
Pay parking in train stations involves a carefull balance to discourage car use while not having such a high price that would discourage getting the train altogether.
Mark Gleeson
01-09-2008, 10:07
Just like the DARTTXT scam should IE be forced to put a note on the pay parking notices that buying a weekly ticket doesn't garauntee you a car park space?
Indeed, should be required, will need to go out to see the new signage first
Typically there is no info I can see on the Irish Rail website.
No mention of the stations affected today, no mention of the next series of stations to be affected and what dates.
No FAQs for those who will need to pay the charges.
(E.g Q. If I buy a weekly ticket will I be certain of a parking space?
A. Of course not. )
No mention of the enhanced car parking facilities the new charges will help pay for, nothing at all, just hand over the money and get on your train without a whimper please.
Should we be surprised at all?
And very little information in the station either. A casual user or anyone who was on holiday for the last two weeks and missed the NCTS leaflet drop could easily miss the fact that you have to pay. There is a big new sign on the way into the carpark that I assume tells everything but the only people who could possibly read it are pedestrians.
Within the station there are a few A4 size print outs stuck up with sellotape in the ticket office. Blink and you miss them. Bad luck too if you are like the fella I saw in the car park this morning with a 10 euro note. I hope he got change from somewhere but he definitely did not get the 6:46 train. I only knew that I needed coins because I happened to look at the ticket machines last week. I could not muster up the full 8 euro of coins last night so I had to get a daily ticket this morning.
Mark Hennessy
01-09-2008, 10:43
http://irishrail.ie/your_journey/carpark_information.asp
How's this for sheer laziness?
2 months since the first announcement and not a thing on the part of the website devoted to car parking information.
EDIT: Anyone know if the weekly price at Gormanstown has risen to €8?
Mark Gleeson
01-09-2008, 10:48
It was meant to go up
Of course Gormanston (not Gormanstown as Irish Rail like to spell it now and again) car park is rarely more than half full since rail fares and service levels from Balbriggan only 2 miles away are so much better
Of course Gormanston car park is rarely more than half full since rail fares and service levels from Balbriggan only 2 miles away are so much better
€8 a week better? :D
Mark Gleeson
01-09-2008, 11:33
Balbriggan annual 890 euro
Gormanston annual 1210 euro
tigger1962
01-09-2008, 12:15
I was abroad for the last few weeks so It was a bit of a shock to find pay parking in dundalk this morninig I'm told it was all done over the weekend. Like many others who drove into the car park, I turned around and parked on the street where there is no charge currently. I live 6 miles from the station and thanks to the irish childcare situation we have no choice but to have 2 cars. We both commute to Dublin every day. Someone said earlier about choosing to buy closer to the station that is not necessarily a good thing and houses closer to public transport cost more usually. I know some locals that are now parking at the station instead of the council longterm park as its cheaper and they all work locally!! While those of use that use the train have to fight for a spot (if we so choose) I've already written to our local TD but since he hasn't done much to buck the FF trend lately I doubt he'll do anything!! I'll be switching to another transport company (and use the carpark) as it will be cheaper and just as fast next year as there is nothing there currently to stop me doing this!
Colm Moore
01-09-2008, 14:05
http://irishrail.ie/your_journey/carpark_information.asp
How's this for sheer laziness?
2 months since the first announcement and not a thing on the part of the website devoted to car parking information.
EDIT: Anyone know if the weekly price at Gormanstown has risen to €8?That link wasn't working for the last few minutes, but the following is now showing
Car Park Information
Charged Carparks Information
Station No. of spaces Parking Charges
Connolly Station 460 including disabled Pay & display
Per Hour - €1.50
24 hours - €7.50
Weekend - €18.00
Heuston station 480 including disabled Pay on Exit
Per Hour - €1.50
24 hours - €7.50
Weekend - €18.00
Leixlip Louisa Bridge 340 including disabled Pay & display
€2 per day
€5 per week
Kent Station, Cork 600 including disabled Pay & display
Per Hour - €1.50
24 hours - €7.50
Weekend - €18.00
Killarney Station 47 including disabled Pay & display
€2 per day
€5 per week
Tralee Station 70 including disabled Pay & display
€2 per day
€5 per week
Tullamore Station 300 including disabled Pay & display
€2 per day
€5 per week
Gormanston Station, Co. Meath 200 including disabled Pay & display
€2 per day
€5 per week
Sallins Station, Co. Kildare 206 including disabled Pay & display
€2 per day
€5 per week
Payment Options
Payment must be made by one of the following two options;
Pay and Display
Pay by Phone Parking
Further info about Phone Parking
The ParkMagic pay by phone service will be deployed as an alternative payment mechanism for CIE train customers using the current pay & display arrangements which will remain in the car parks. The ParkMagic display can be purchased at the selected CIE car park operators offices and will cost €15 or alternatively at www.parkmagic.net and get it delivered to your door. The first station to introduce the new payment system will be Kent Station in Cork in November 2007. The ParkMagic system will be widely available in stations nationwide following this, beginning with rollout to Connolly and Heuston stations in Dublin and Leixlip and Killarney stations over the coming months. All of these car parks are operated by car park operator Euro Car Parks, see their website www.eurocarparks.ie
ParkMagic is an in-car parking permit display system controlled using a mobile phone. The motorist buys a display unit for their car which they place on the dashboard or windscreen. When the driver pulls into a parking spot they dial one number from their mobile phone and within seconds the display unit in the car indicates that parking has been paid. New ParkMagic customers will be able to purchase the in-car parking display units in all five CIE stations.
Note that they speak of November 2007 as being in the future.
I didn't know Connolly had parking. Where is the access ?
z
Mark Gleeson
01-09-2008, 15:53
Coming down Amiens Street from the 5 Lamps, take a left just after the railway bridge down the cobbled road (main Connolly building on your right, Irish Rail head office (red brick) on the left) continue for about 200m then left at the junction, you have arrived at your destination
I know we are talking about CIE here, so I know what to expect on the ground, but in general terms would there not be a case for claiming refunds if you buy a weekly ticket and can't use it because the car park is full every day ?
Imagine a worst case situation where you buy your ticket on day 1 and get a space, then on day 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 you can't get a space because the car park is full. Is there not some consumer legislation provision covering this situation ? In this case you have been sold a ticket which you can reasonably assume entitles you to park for a week since it is called a weekly parking ticket, yet in practice you can't exercise your entitlement.
z
Thanks for that Mark - I pass there quite often and never realised that parking was there. Shows how much attention I pay.
z
Coming down Amiens Street from the 5 Lamps, take a left just after the railway bridge down the cobbled road (main Connolly building on your right, Irish Rail head office (red brick) on the left) continue for about 200m then left at the junction, you have arrived at your destination
Mark Gleeson
01-09-2008, 16:00
Ticket =/= seat, same game plan here
Fairly sure the T & C's have clause for that
Think we will have to write to these guys
Well its a joke of a gameplan we are talking about two different situations here to say that a car park ticket does not entitle you 100% to a car park space is an absolute joke!
Out of interest were all car parks affected today ok in terms of spaces?
Ticket =/= seat, same game plan here
Fairly sure the T & C's have clause for that
Think we will have to write to these guys
Who issues the refunds though?
tigger1962
01-09-2008, 19:59
At dundalk there were quite a few places free. The upper carpark which is normally full had places left. Cars I normally see parked there were parked outside the station. I also noticed orange warning stickers on some cars as i left the station. I've passed on a few of the template letters to some of the ppl I knew that travel on the enterprise.. they were quite happy to send them on the Dermot Ahern
Well it will be interesting to see how it pans out but if things go pearshaped as we expect and people not getting spaces, the operators should be forced to issue tickets as seven day credit rather than a scheduled seven day ticket
Ticket =/= seat, same game plan here
Ticket may not equal seat, but usually does equal standing. Don't think too many people aren't able to get on trains altogether, and if they are usually on DART services which are (relatively) frequent.
However, if Irish Rail grossly oversell weekly passes for a certain station, I think you would have a case to make.
Mark Gleeson
02-09-2008, 10:54
If you fail to board the train you can simply return your ticket to the booking office if you bought it that morning and get instant refund. Ticket doesn't actually guarantee carriage
At the moment it appears Irish Rail have scored an own goal, car parks have spaces but reports suguest a drop in passenger numbers on train
If you fail to board the train you can simply return your ticket to the booking office if you bought it that morning and get instant refund. Ticket doesn't actually guarantee carriage
At the moment it appears Irish Rail have scored an own goal, car parks have spaces but reports suguest a drop in passenger numbers on train
I'm not so sure Mark, whatever about yesterday overall it was not so bad even the roads were grand. This morning was a completely different story absolute nightmare on the roads didn't take the train this morning, it will be interesting to see how the stations faired this morning!
Its norm in terms of traffic to wait till next week or at least tomorrow or Thursday. Its back to school week and normal school time traffic patterns in the AM and PM have not yet bedded down.
tigger1962
02-09-2008, 11:30
The Dundalk one was emptier than usual for a tuesday when I got the train this mornng, but we'll see what happens after a week! I passed a few more letters to some colleagues at work who are not currently hit by the system but will be in a few weeks...
From my perspective I'm stuck with IE until june... but because of competition in the bus sector and the M1, I'd say more people like myself will switch to a bus service next year for the commute!! it takes the same amount of time and the busses are more frequent... there is now no incentive to use train. The enterprise service has over the years got worse and when the colleges get back and christmas coming things will only get worse!
I know that buying a ticket for travel does not guarantee you a seat, it entitles you to carriage.
The difference here is that a parking ticket doesn't have an equivalent distinction between carriage and seating - you can either fit your car into a space or you can't. If they sell me a parking ticket and then can't provide a parking space within the validity period of the ticket then surely there is some failure to provide the services contracted for.
If the ticket was valid for a certain number of stays without limit on the validity then it would be different.
Imagine buying one of those season tickets for a multiplex cinema and turning up in good time for a series of films and being told each time that there were no seats available. At the end of the month your ticket expires and you have received no service. I don't think most people would be happy with this scenario and the parking would be no different. Indeed, I can see what Mark is referring to above - I am sure IE will lose some passengers after people get tired of shelling out for the parking and not getting their space for the best part of the week, and having to go park somewhere else and missing their train for a few weeks. At least some of these people will switch to other transport modes.
z
This is what is so key here... people need to know their rights when they park their car in pay parking spots. Its more than just buying the ticket.
The fact that the rules is nowhere to be found is not helping!
From IE's Condition of Carriage
PDF Document: https://www.irishrail.ie/home/ConditionsOfTravel.pdf
19. Conditions relating to parking of motor vehicles
19.1 Motor vehicles may be parked only in places reserved for the parking of cars
and subject to accommodation being available.
19.2 Iarnród Éireann does not undertake to provide a secure or attended car park
and, to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law, neither Iarnród Éireann
nor its employees shall be liable to any person whomsoever for personal
injury suffered while in a car park, or to any person whomsoever for any theft
or loss of, or damage to, vehicles or personal effects or goods therein or
thereon while parked in a car park, even if caused by the negligence of Iarnród
Éireann or its employees.
19.3 Tickets, where applicable, are not transferable and are issued subject to
Iarnród Éireann’s byelaws, conditions and regulations contained in Iarnród
Éireann’s publications and notices.19.4 Season tickets or barrier tokens are valid only for the parking of one motor
vehicle at any one time at the station indicated on the ticket or token and only
in respect of the motor vehicle for which the season ticket or barrier token
was issued. Any change in the registration number of the motor vehicle or
the address of the holder of the season ticket or barrier token must be
advised immediately to the office of issue.
19.5 Season tickets and barrier tokens are the property of Iarnród Éireann and
must be surrendered immediately on expiration. An administrative charge will
be made for season tickets or barrier tokens, which are lost, torn, defaced,
damaged or not surrendered.
19.6 Every person accepting these conditions accepts them on his or her own
behalf and on behalf of all other persons having a proprietary interest in the
motor vehicle.
Of course where to find those publications and notices are another thing.
Once again, the Government and the senior civil servants in the Department of Transport do not care about public transport because they don't have to use it.
Perhaps the Minister for transport should not be allowed to use a car.
I can't support the argument against paying for parking, free parking is one of the greatest contributors to the countrys addiction to cars (along with crap planning).
Proper buses and cycling facilites are the answer not free parking, which incidently is not available widley in Europe, i even have to pay for the privelage to park outside my own house.
Its amazing a pro public transport group like RUI putting so much effort in on behalf of car users, this is probably the hottest thread today, shouldn't this energy be redirected into making having to use a car to the station unnecessary.
Someone used the argument about people with buggys and cycling, well my boy just turned one last week and has already run up hunderds of Kms in a bike seat from when he was 3 months and before that we carried him in a harness while cycling.
Mark Gleeson
02-09-2008, 17:28
Point we have been making for over 15 months is car parking is not a sustainable solution, its part of the solution and will be with us for some time
The only way to resolve this is make it possible to use public transport throughout the entire journey
Where is the feeder bus service? Irish Rail and CIE haven't bothered to make any efforts in that department
Given the planning situation many people live such that walking is not feasible
AndrewMc
02-09-2008, 17:29
Proper buses and cycling facilites are the answer not free parking
Exactly, but they're charging for parking and not providing an alternative. It's completely backwards.
Someone used the argument about people with buggys and cycling, well my boy just turned one last week and has already run up hunderds of Kms in a bike seat from when he was 3 months and before that we carried him in a harness while cycling.
In Dublin? I cycled for years in Dublin, and always felt like I was 2 inches from a protracted hospital stay. I'd never dream of taking a child with me.
tigger1962
03-09-2008, 07:34
I tried cycling to the station... The roads are so bad out my way that I've decided its way to dangerous! and its not even dark out yet! <RANT>The only way Ministers will ever give a damn is to get them onto public transport instead of getting nice new cars courtesy of the taxpayer and charge them for parking at Govt Buildings. In my time commuting I've only ever seen members of the green party on a train or bus but I suspect they are the whipping boys of the FF govt at the moment. And from emails I've received from our local TD FF don't give a hoot about commuters<END RANT>
That aside... Dundalk Carpark was pretty full yesterday and so where the surrounding streets. At the moment its first come first served such that by 7.15 you have to park in the station... I'm sure the local Council will soon change that though
In terms of the surrounding areas whats happening to those areas already affected should be a wake up call for those areas not yet affected to take action now.
Coolmine residents are having an uphill struggle trying to get this problem sorted and pay parking has not even come in there yet!
In terms of the car park the seven day pass should be at the discretion of the car driver there should not be a period upon them when to use it when quite clearly two of the days the ticket wont be used and there might be days they wont get a space!
I wait for the day to come wheo the car parks are full hopefully we will hear about it!
A friend of mine lives near Coolmine station and knows that a few of his neighbours park in the station car park when they are only 5 mins walk away.
If the likes of full car parks, traffic congestion, pay parking etc. can convince people to leave their car at home then we are moving in the right direction.
There are a **** load of lazy ass people out there.
The likes of shuttle buses and cycle facilities have to be looked at in parallel with convincing people to leave their car at homes but without decent frequency and integrated ticketing it's a dead end.
The likes of shuttle buses and cycle facilities have to be looked at in parallel with convincing people to leave their car at homes but without decent frequency and integrated ticketing it's a dead end.
Agreed, but I think the shuttle bus option should be a last resort. I think that the first option should be to look at to see can the core bus services (such as 39, 27, 46A etc) can be integrated to serve stations by a simple diversion/route change with minimal impact (you'd be suprised at how easy this option can be), these services normally serve the surrounding housing areas so people can travel to the station. The 270 local Dublin 15 route being planned by Dublin Bus is also a good plan linking Blanchardstown sc with dunboyne, littlepace the new major housing estates beside clonee, hartstown, huntstown all with Clonsilla station.
The Problem is if a shuttle bus service is in operation and numbers are not good the service will be pulled. It is less likely that operating a Dublin bus core service via a rail station linking will have this sort of impact. Normally they will also organise alternative arrangements.
In Dublin? I cycled for years in Dublin, and always felt like I was 2 inches from a protracted hospital stay. I'd never dream of taking a child with me.
well maybe its your cycling thats the problem, carrying a child might concentrate your mind a little better.
A friend of mine lives near Coolmine station and knows that a few of his neighbours park in the station car park when they are only 5 mins walk away.
If the likes of full car parks, traffic congestion, pay parking etc. can convince people to leave their car at home then we are moving in the right direction.
There are a **** load of lazy ass people out there.
The likes of shuttle buses and cycle facilities have to be looked at in parallel with convincing people to leave their car at homes but without decent frequency and integrated ticketing it's a dead end.
correct, most people driving to stations now would still do so even if there were alternatives available as long as parking was free, and remember theres no such thing as free parking its just everybody pays for it indirectly when there is no direct charge levied on the user.
Anybody remember free airline catering?
Mark Gleeson
03-09-2008, 16:40
Its all about alternatives
If a proper feeder bus system was in place
If there was a safe, well lit and well paved path to the station
If a little bit of cop on was shown to provide more accessible entrances at stations
Proper secure covered space for bikes
Combine that with zero tolerance on non rail users parking in station car parks and you reach a best practice situation
Of course none of this was done, there is the problem, no alternative beyond walking on substandard paths and stations where cars have priorities over passengers
I think the lack of feeder buses is probably down to the lack of co-operation between the different arms of CIE and the licensing department of the DoT.
In an ideal world, each local authority/town council would be responsible for local transport such as feeder bus services. The haphazard way that bus licensing is currently handled in a central location is the ultimate stumbling block I think.
Mark Gleeson
03-09-2008, 19:56
Give an example, Balbriggan, town bus every 20 minutes, last bus 19:00. So not much good if you get the 18:40 or later train. Doesn't cover everywhere either.
Balbriggan is the only town with a proper local bus service of all the stations to be hit in this phase. Of course its no good for the crew from Gormanston who drive to Balbriggan to get a massive fare reduction and better service.
Of course no integrated ticketing and no mention of this in the rail timetable
Of course no integrated ticketing and no mention of this in the rail timetable
Most of the places I went to in France didn't have fully integrated ticketing. In the cities, the tickets that worked on the local buses weren't valid for SNCF. And in cases where the TGV station was outside the town centre (Avignon TGV, for example), you were unable to buy a combined TGV + bus ticket to get the bus into the centre.
I think integrated ticketing should be there for cities, but for feeder buses in local towns, I don't think it's feasible.
Colm Moore
03-09-2008, 20:05
I tried cycling to the station... The roads are so bad out my way that I've decided its way to dangerous! and its not even dark out yet! <RANT>The only way Ministers will ever give a damn is to get them onto public transport instead of getting nice new cars courtesy of the taxpayer and charge them for parking at Govt Buildings. In my time commuting I've only ever seen members of the green party on a train or bus but I suspect they are the whipping boys of the FF govt at the moment. And from emails I've received from our local TD FF don't give a hoot about commuters<END RANT>There is a noticeable problem that people in commuter towns don't vote. So make sure you and your friends and family are registered and vote next time.I think integrated ticketing should be there for cities, but for feeder buses in local towns, I don't think it's feasible.It is possibly easier in small towns as they often have limited services with flat fares. If Malahide can have it, why can't Donabate?
Laois Commuter
04-09-2008, 08:02
correct, most people driving to stations now would still do so even if there were alternatives available as long as parking was free, and remember theres no such thing as free parking its just everybody pays for it indirectly when there is no direct charge levied on the user.
Anybody remember free airline catering?
You've hit the nail on the head there. For many, a taxi could be provided, free of charge, but they would still use their cars unless physically prevented from doing so.
LC
I was passing through Skerries car park this morning. It was still as full as ever. A quick glance at a few of the windows showed full compliance with the charges, most people seem to have bought a weekly ticket.
Two interesting things I noted
- The machines have the CIE logo on them (no sign of the IE logo)
- The signs beside the ticket machines state that purchase of a weekly ticket does not guarantee a space
As I was leaving, an NCPS van was pulling into the car park, presumably to check tickets and clamp cars if appropriate.
Seems like most people are rolling over and accepting the charges.
Mark Gleeson
10-09-2008, 14:12
It is a CIE operation.
What other option do people have, if there was a better option than the train they would already be using it. If you bought an annual ticket you have no choice really but to stick it out. Come January there might be a real change as most annual tickets run calender year
It is a CIE operation.
What other option do people have, if there was a better option than the train they would already be using it. If you bought an annual ticket you have no choice really but to stick it out. Come January there might be a real change as most annual tickets run calender year
I'm sure alot of people in Skerries could walk. It would be interesting for someone to do a survey on car park usage in stations to see how far away the average car park user is. I would wager (and I have said this in the past) that most people using Skerries train station live 10-15 minutes walk away from the station.
Looks like they aren't clamping yet. On my way back I found one car with no ticket and a handwritten notice on the windscreen saying "This is a pay and display area".
Incidentally, one of the signs indicates that paying by credit card is possible, but I can't find out how. Anyone know if this is actually possible.
How about a big sign at every station saying "Could you have walked here instead?"
How about a big sign at every station saying "Could you have walked here instead?"
Honestly, with the way things are going, this wouldn't be a bad idea. I know of people who drive 100 yards to the shop and drive 100 yards back home again. People are in the mindset that anything over three minutes walk is a job for the car.
With time spent finding spaces and in traffic etc. walking can be quicker over some distances. The laziness of people really baffles me.
Two weeks on and it is interesting to see the usual faces appearing back on the trains and in the car park. There was a definite change last week with many people going missing but all have either given up on the driving to Dublin after a week or given up on walking to the station. I know of one person in work who walked to Drogheda station last week but is now back in the car after a few soakings.
tigger1962
11-09-2008, 14:17
in my station the carpark is about 3/4 full most days. but quite a few people using the carpark are not using the train. Its now cheaper to park in station than in the local council long term carpark.
I get the 06.35 train in the mornings and there is a noticeable pattern... those who used to use the station are now on the streets outside the station. those who used not get parking in the station now are parking in the station. As stated by someone else, many of those have annual tickets and there might be a distinct change when they expire. for charging annual users the approx €500 extra they might end up losing €2600! or in our case €5200 as we both use the train!
I have been looking at the alternatives and unless something changes we have decided to use the private bus service when our annual ticket expires! which we see will save us €450 per annum
Colm Moore
11-09-2008, 18:09
Note that one of the few parts of the DTA Act currently operating deals with car parking.
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10932&lang=ENG&loc=849
I know it is still early days but having paid €16 already I have noted a couple of things that the money has not yet stretched to:
A brush and shovel to sweep the rubbish out of the car park.
A screwdriver to remove old signage. NCPS have been operating clamping in Drogheda for some time now. The old release fee was €90. This has now increased to €120. The thing is, the old signs are still up so we have Irish Rail signs saying €120 and NCPS signs indicating a bargain €90. It would almost be worth the money to get clamped and see if they could enforce the higher fee.
Something that the money has stretched to:
A bucket of paint to designate two spaces for staff and not just any spaces, oh no, they have comandeered the best seats in the house right outside the front door. Does anybody know why staff in Drogheda do not have to use the special parking area that is behind a barrier with an access control card? There are about 25 spaces in there that are rarely used.
I see they are putting up a ticket machine in the carpark 'annex' in Clontarf Road - the strip of road that goes parallel to the tracks heading towards the city.
This became a kind of de-facto part of the car park when all the works stuff moved out after the sidings were finished a few years back and people realised they could park on the rubble and general rubbish left behind.
The thing is - there is a relatively big kerb to be driven over to get there, the surface is more or less mud in a lot of places and the access road has some totally awful potholes along the way.
I don't suppose the fact they are putting in a ticket machine here will result in improvements to the road surface, access, etc . . . ? Will these spaces not now become subject to whatever regulations exist for parking spaces - minimum width, painted outlines, etc . . . or do any such regulations exist ?
z
If anyone has a few years and some legal brain power to spare it could be worth questioning whether IE are running an unlicensed lottery or gambling emporium in their car parks.
If the weekly ticket doesn't guarantee you a space, then are you in fact buying a ticket which entitles you to a chance to win a prize of a space ? Is this not a lottery or raffle requiring licensing ? Alternatively, because you can increase your chances of 'winning' by using your skill and arriving early, then maybe this is betting ?
Either way, it could be argued that they need a license. Now, if you could get a refund for unused/unavailable parking time it might be different, or if you could carry unused parking time over to another week it could be different.
z
Thomas Ralph
12-09-2008, 16:44
If that holds up (which I doubt) they'll probably just remove the weekly rate. Problem solved.
I don't suppose the fact they are putting in a ticket machine here will result in improvements to the road surface, access, etc . . . ? Will these spaces not now become subject to whatever regulations exist for parking spaces - minimum width, painted outlines, etc . . . or do any such regulations exist ?
I'd rather they converted it to a footpath, so many people get off the DART and head towards East Point in the morning, yet they have to walk along the road! Either that or put an entrance to the platform at the city end of the platform.
Also, isn't that road marked as a bus lane anyway?
Colm Moore
12-09-2008, 23:02
Now, if you could get a refund for unused/unavailable parking time it might be differentTo give refunds on a systematic basis, they would then need a banking licence to avoid failing foul of money laundering legislation. :)
If that holds up (which I doubt) they'll probably just remove the weekly rate. Problem solved.
Problem not solved!
Roll on the day that people will say for their parking, head up to the station and find out services are suspended or cancelled giving them little choice but to drive. What happens then?
The clamping has started. I saw the first last week and another yesterday. They still have the dual signs showing release fees of €90 and €120.
Signs up in Sutton station. Nothing in Howth so far.
Mark Gleeson
25-09-2008, 08:25
IE where dragged in before the Joint Oireachtas committee yesterday. The text should be interesting
Signs up in Sutton station. Nothing in Howth so far.
Just an ammend to that. IE dont have a car park in Howth but pay and display is due to come thanks to Fingal.
The clampers were out in force yesterday in Sutton station.
grainne whale
26-09-2008, 08:35
A sign appeared this morning saying that Pay Parking is due to start on 6th October at Hazelhatch station, this is ridiculous as the station is unfinished and also the Feeder Bus is too small to cope with extra capacity and can be a bit unreliable.
hoopsheff
01-10-2008, 11:27
I havent seen any parking fee machines set up yet in Hazehatch...
I did read that the parking people will be there on monday....but i'd bet it'll be after 8 when they do...not for the first train in the morning!
mullingar mojo
01-10-2008, 15:30
Does anyone know when the pay and display is coming to Mullingar Station?
Mark Gleeson
01-10-2008, 15:32
Its coming by start November :mad:
hoopsheff
07-10-2008, 07:43
On Monday there were notices on the parking machines/signs that parking charges were deferred until further notice.
Today (tuesday) charges were introduced...no notice advising that charging was now in place...absolute disgrace. This led to a number of people having to run back to their cars to get parking tickets...i'd say some people will miss their trains because of this.
Also the parking sign stated that there would be Operatives from the parking company on site to help people with any questions on monday ...now obviously with it not going ahead there was nobody there...but c'mon they definitely shoulda been there this morning!
grainne whale
07-10-2008, 09:08
On Monday there were notices on the parking machines/signs that parking charges were deferred until further notice.
Today (tuesday) charges were introduced...no notice advising that charging was now in place...absolute disgrace. This led to a number of people having to run back to their cars to get parking tickets...i'd say some people will miss their trains because of this.
Also the parking sign stated that there would be Operatives from the parking company on site to help people with any questions on monday ...now obviously with it not going ahead there was nobody there...but c'mon they definitely shoulda been there this morning! Ring Thomas Harrington (Sales Director) of NCPS 086 1708 920, I had an email from him this morning saying that 'I can park there free of charge for the time being', I'm sure he means everyone else as well !! This is all very confusing.
Yesterday's Budget was interesting. The government now values parking spaces in "the main urban centres" at €200 per year and out-of-town locations remain free. Irish Rail see fit to charge around €400 for a space at one of their stations regardless of location and availabilty of a bus, or even a footpath in some cases, as a viable alternative to parking at the station.
Mark Hennessy
15-10-2008, 09:49
Yesterday's Budget was interesting. The government now values parking spaces in "the main urban centres" at €200 per year and out-of-town locations remain free. Irish Rail see fit to charge around €400 for a space at one of their stations regardless of location and availabilty of a bus, or even a footpath in some cases, as a viable alternative to parking at the station.
Very good point, listening to Lenihan on Pat Kenny now and he hasn't a notion of how they'll police the car parking tax. It wouldn't surprise me if they had to hire new public servants to police all the new complex stealth taxes
tigger1962
15-10-2008, 14:20
Is it just me or isn't it a bit suspicious that CIE introduced their parking fees at just the right time. I am presuming they to be levied for carparking spaces for their employees? I cant see the unions at CIE allowing their members to pay for it and it looks to me that we are actually paying their levy!? maybe I'm just getting old and cynical!
Flyers placed on all the cars in Maynooth station today informing everyone it is starting on the 28th October.
Heading Nationwide Controlled Parking System NCPS
Car Parking Information for Customers
Dear Customer.
Paid Parking will be introduced to this car park
To park here you will need to purchase a Pay & Display ticket from 28th October 2008
The daily tariff is €2 and a discounted weekly tariff is available at €8
Nationwide Controlled Parking Systems will be managing the car parking facilities on behalf of Iarnród éireann.
If you have any questions on how the service will work please contact NCPS on 0818 555000 or by email on admin@ncps.ie
NCPS operatives will also be on the ground in the car parks at varying times and will be more than happy to provide you with any assistance you may require.
Your Sincerely,
NCPS
Tá leagan Gaelige den billeoig seo are fail ó NCPS
should it not read NCPS operatives will also be on the ground in the car parks at varying times to make sure you have paid and will be more than happy to clamp your car.
Flyers placed on all the cars in Maynooth station today informing everyone it is starting on the 28th October.
should it not read NCPS operatives will also be on the ground in the car parks at varying times to make sure you have paid and will be more than happy to clamp your car.
Coolmine is also informing passengers that the charges will kick in from the 28th. So looks like the remaining car parks on the maynooth line that have yet to introduce paid car parking will do so on the 28th
Colm Moore
20-10-2008, 21:26
I saw some clamping in Portlaoise today.
Does anyone know when the pay and display is coming to Mullingar Station?
Noticed this week that the signs and parking machines have been installed at the Dublin commuter stations of Longford and Edgeworthstown.
The sign cries out in all its glory:
Payment of tariff does not guarantee a parking space.
What a scam. Thank god I gave up on the train long ago in favour of my car. I'll never go back!!
Mark Hennessy
27-10-2008, 12:18
There are 3 machines in place for all of Maynooth car park. There is also a large sign on the bridge at the entrance to the station outlining the T&Cs.
Do CIE need planning permission for this?
There are 4 machines in Coolmine ready to go also.
Remember folks to have exact change to give to the good people in CIE property. This money will not in any way be going to improve the service.
what is the maynooth line like?
at home today so wasn't in Maynooth myself
Colm Moore
28-10-2008, 19:11
There are 3 machines in place for all of Maynooth car park. There is also a large sign on the bridge at the entrance to the station outlining the T&Cs.
Do CIE need planning permission for this?Street furniture generally doesn't require planning permission. For signs, well it depends on the size of the signs, name plates are OK, anything bigger probably needs permission.
I am fed up finding the exact change for these machines. I do not travel every single day which often makes a weekly ticket uneconomical so I find myself scratching for coins the night before I get the train. I forgot last night so 6am this morning saw me hoking around the wife's car to find the €2 coin she uses to get a shopping trolley in Aldi.
Colm Moore
06-11-2008, 21:47
I am fed up finding the exact change for these machines. I do not travel every single day which often makes a weekly ticket uneconomical so I find myself scratching for coins the night before I get the train. I forgot last night so 6am this morning saw me hoking around the wife's car to find the €2 coin she uses to get a shopping trolley in Aldi.
Get a 35mm film case. Anytime you get a €1 or €2 coin in change, put it in that. Its less wearing on your pocket or wallet than loose coins.
Thomas Ralph
06-11-2008, 23:01
Who uses 35mm film anymore? :confused:
Colm Moore
07-11-2008, 14:36
Who uses 35mm film anymore? :confused: :(
I'm sure I have some spare empties at home.
Mark Gleeson
07-11-2008, 16:21
Tis good advice, used to use that approach to bringing coin through airport security when I didn't have a jacket with me.
Other payment options are in the pipeline I'm told
AndrewMc
07-11-2008, 19:44
Pay and display in Athy from next Monday 10th. Car park is still a potholed, gravel and shattered-glass filled yard. I think only about ten or twelve spaces are actually marked out - the rest is just open space. If they painted a few lines they could increase capacity by 30-40% by forcing people to tidy up their parking, but I guess money grabbing is easier. Only saw two ticket machines so I expect there will be queues at them given how many arrive in the last five minutes before each of the two trains.
just passed coolmine and the car park is packed! Obviously to do with the rugby at croke park. A nice little sum for the operators!:mad:
I noticed in Maynooth that if you place a IR high Viz jacket on your steering wheel that you don't have to pay for parking.
This is outside the normal staff parking spots.
FOR SALE
20 almost new IR high Viz ,pmo, look real
top quality, save 8 euro a week
E20 ono
Contact B Kenny@aesopsfables.ie
Have seen similar on eBay for NIR high-visibility jackets
of course, NIR have a good record in providing free, surfaced parking
...a lovely white, slippery car park. I found it difficult to see the markings for the parking spaces and running to the ticket machine was a big no-no. You'd think that three months of parking charges would have raised enough for a bag of salt.
So it seems like they are now clamping illegally parked cars. In newbridge a certain amount of illegal parking was tolerated but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
Colm Moore
10-12-2008, 17:15
By illegal, do you mean nuisance parking - double yellow lines, entrances, taking up two spaces, etc.?
Mark Hennessy
10-12-2008, 17:49
By illegal, do you mean nuisance parking - double yellow lines, entrances, taking up two spaces, etc.?
What we have seen is that this is the case except the clampers are only clamping some illegally parked cars but not others.
Thomas Ralph
10-12-2008, 19:47
What we have seen is that this is the case except the clampers are only clamping some illegally parked cars but not others.
No different than DCC then.
By illegal, do you mean nuisance parking - double yellow lines, entrances, taking up two spaces, etc.?
Parking in a yellow box. In this case it wasn't exactly nuisance parking - they weren't taking up two spaces and they weren't blocking anyone's way.
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