Daily seat Lottery - Connolly to Mullingar not 17.05 but 18:05

[Ballymore]

I know for a fact that not being able to get a seat regularly on this service is affecting more than me so was just wondering has anyone been sending in complaints like I have just done below and if so what sort of a response are you getting?



'I'm sure this is a complete waste of time but I am going to go through with it anyway and mark my words I will complain from now on EVERY single time that this happens. I pay in excess of €2000 per annum for my annual train ticket from Mullingar to Connolly and repeatedly evening after evening I take part in the lottery for seats. Yesterday I had to stand in crowded conditions you'd hardly find in India as far as Maynooth. It's disgraceful and unacceptable. I seen a comment attributed to Barry Kenny recently in the Westmeath Examiner saying that he would not be doing anything about this as there are ample seats from Maynooth onwards. Thats so arrogant and rude beyond belief. I am a customer and pay for a ticket from Mullingar to Connolly for a seat not for an uncomfortable stand still till I am halfway home.'

[CSL]

You're paying for a ticket not a seat...

[ThomasJ]

I pay in excess of €2000 per annum for my annual train ticket from Mullingar to Connolly and repeatedly evening after evening I take part in the lottery for seats. Yesterday I had to stand in crowded conditions you'd hardly find in India as far as Maynooth

The 17:05 doesn't stop in Maynooth. Mullingar is the first stop.

[Mark Gleeson]

You're paying for a ticket not a seat...

Thats not really a terribly helpful answer.

No passenger should have to stand on an intercity journey. Its 54 minutes to Mullingar on the 17:05, standing for that duration is not acceptable, especially on a train which isn't designed to cope with signifcant level of standees. Unlike the Uk which monitors standing levels, under 20 minutes being the target IE don't give a damn and just pack people in.

Matters should get a fair bit better this week onwards, there is now a new 6 coach 360 seater train leaving Connolly for Sligo at 16:00, 17:05 and 19:05 five days a week, thats about 450 extra seats. Previously the 16:00 was Fridays only and the 19:05 was a 4 coach train

Seat reservations are coming on the Sligo line in coming weeks, how this is implemented for annual ticket holders has never been explained

Given the 17:05 doesn't call in Maynooth I'm curious as to how you got a seat there

The good Mr Kenny used to be a Maynooth line commuter, he moved to Howth, wonder why?

[Ballymore]

Yes you're right it's the 18.05 I meant. Apologies - what a way to introduce myself to the forums by making a dogs dinner of my maiden post!

As for the seat / ticket comment - dont be so facetious. If that was a genuinely acceptable reason then why dont airlines work on the same principle then? I'm sure Michael O'Leary would love it but how would you fancy standing on a flight to Budapest for instance, oh but it'll be ok as we'll stop in paris and when a few people get off you might just get a seat. :mad:

[ThomasJ]

No passenger should have to stand on an intercity journey. Its 54 minutes to Mullingar on the 17:05, standing for that duration is not acceptable, especially on a train which isn't designed to cope with signifcant level of standees. Unlike the Uk which monitors standing levels, under 20 minutes being the target IE don't give a damn and just pack people in.


I can't see how without segregating passengers before they board or give automatic ticket reservations to those who travel furthest how its gonna work.

Having said that 18:05 longford is the commuter train that wasn't meant to be.....theres a chance people would be forced to stand? I have stood from Pearse to Maynooth for over 40 minutes. painful as it is it still happens. It could be worst you could be standing on a bus for over 2 hours as some people from Blanchardstown endured last christmas.

Intercity is different though.... passengers from Mullingar and beyond shouldn't have to stand

[Mark Gleeson]

18:05 is a commuter service, thus standing is to be expected. The train is designed to accommodate up to 1240 people. It is a dedicated commuter service for those travelling to Maynooth and beyond with the 18:08 service for all others.

This train should be 8 coaches long at this stage, if the train is not there is the problem the rolling stock shortage will resolve itself in the next 2 weeks

If you want a seat 17:05 or 19:05 are fairly reasonable. I'm more than happy to make a trip out on the 18:05 to evaluate the situation. Only advice is to arrive in good time and to board at the far end of the train not at the Dublin end

[ThomasJ]

This train should be 8 coaches long at this stage, if the train is not there is the problem the rolling stock shortage will resolve itself in the next 2 weeks


I thought the 18:08 would have got 8 coaches it thats worst than the 18:05

[Ballymore]

I was in the very front carriage last night and we were jammed in like sardines. I was at Connolly at 5.42

[ThomasJ]

again does this not argue the point about an 18:05 Connolly Longford (non stop) and the 18:18 Connolly Longford (all stations) and that there should be better utalisation of these services?

[Mark Gleeson]

It is 8 but thats not saying it always is 8 coaches

[ThomasJ]

I do agree with what you are saying. All I am saying is the 18:08 is a living hell getting home at night. That and the 18:05 should be 8 coach trains.

I am just saying the 18:18 Connolly Longford all stations which is an 8 coach train is barely used by anyone beyond Maynooth and given the 18:08 is what people Maynooth-Longford use should that not be focused on instead of the 18:18.

[Ballymore]

There has never been an evening on the 18.05 that there has been nobody standing leaving Connolly and as the first stop is Maynooth (too far to stand whether you going to Maynooth or Sligo in my opinion) this is far from ideal. I am incensed that IE's official view seems to be stand to Maynooth sure you'll get a seat eventually and you should be glad of it, we could make you stand all the way if we really wanted to - a la the 8.53 from Mullingar to Dublin used to be! It's attitudes like this that really make it so frustrating for daily commuters.

There is also the issue of 'keeping seats' - night after night you see people sitting on the outside seat holding a seat for their buddy who is 'in the loo' or 'is just out on the platform' and I have to say women are the worst offenders at this particular practice. Perhaps there could be some signs put up and or daily announcements by drivers to remind people it's unfair to keep seats while people stand. I challenged a woman once and she told me to show her the sign that said it was against the rules to hold a seat. As for tha amount of suitcases and bags that occupy seats sure if they are paying for the 2 seats (sarcasm intended) then IE must be raking in the cash altogether.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you find a seat with a bag or the classic its for someone else, take it

1. No reservations apply
2. First come first served

You won't see a sign saying you can hold the seat

Don't even bother with the is this seat free, that puts you at an instant disadvantage. More a case is that coat yours? you get the yes response, then can you move it, they will retort its for my x then of course you just said its yours

Irish Rail management of course could actually leave there desks and actually start druming a bit of manners into some of the passengers who continually inconvience others

[Donal Quinn]

i have to say i think that i agree with CSL though maybe not as bluntly (welcome to the board Ballymore!)

leaving a capital city in the middle of rush hour and expecting a seat is a bit much. i've been on trains out of paris at rush hour with standing room only. Especially if you can get a seat after 25 mins or so when it stops in maynooth.

i would only be expecting IE to start looking improving capacity when the standing loads start to get to crush levels, not when all the seats fill up.

[ThomasJ]

But is it fair that someone for maynooth gets a direct train home in 26 minutes and get a seat whereas someone for longford has to stand for 26 minutes until that person has reached their destination and get off.

[CSL]

Being on the train is far better than not having any train at all.

I stand by the comment though.

[Ballymore]

Thank you for the welcome Donalq. Do you mind me asking you where you commute to and from and do you often have to stand?

[Ballymore]

Being on the train is far better than not having any train at all.

I stand by the comment though.

With friends like this who needs enemies :D

[Donal Quinn]

i get the luas and i always stand but its not comparable because it's only for a few stops.

my point is really about the level of service that IE can be realistically expected to provide at rush hour. while i think there should be pressure on them to increase capacity always i think we have to choose our battles. The priority should be those people who have to 'drop the shoulder' and cram together standing or even not get on the train at all. only after that should we worry about pressing IE into accomodating people who have to spend some of the journey standing but then can get a seat for the greater part of the journey. Standing is a feature of rush hour commuting everywhere

[Mark Gleeson]

True but elsewhere we don't have people making 70-80 mile journeys each way

I have travelled peak hour RER Paris got a seat both ways, train empty

Travelled on a commuter train in Birmingham last year in the evening rush, got a seat, a choice of seats infact

[Colm Donoghue]

I got on an RER in Paris one satuday evening- it was so packed I couldn't take my arms down after putting my bag up on the rack for 2 stops.
I have never seen anything approaching this level of crammed people on trains in Ireland. the only thing that comes close is the front of a rock gig.

In Tokyo they have people to push you in the doors at stations so the doors can close.

There's about 3 times the seating capacity as standing room on the commuter trains Irish Rail use - i.e. 48 seats and 144 standing room approx.

You could travel by coach, where you couldn't get on if there are no seats left...

Mick O Leary has to obey the law regarding a seat for each passenger. there is no law regarding passengers getting on a railway service. The official govt advice is
"If you feel a train is overcrowded when it arrives at the platform, you should not board." [1]

I presume you get a seat halfo of the way home and in to work most mornings?
A pregnant woman I know has stood 35 mins each way for the last 8 months, except for the 7 times someone has offered a seat.


[1]http://www.rsc.ie/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&pID=139

[Ballymore]

If I lived in Dublin and had to stand a few stops I wouldnt give it a second thought and I've often got the Dart for instance and never ever complained about having to stand.

I suppose what galls me is that I pay over €2k per year and it's not occasionally but night after night of standing for half of a long commute is back breaking, spirit breaking even!

The problem is getting worse and IE's answer is 'let them stand'. Thats what I'm not happy about. Also one of the posters here who reckoned I should adopt the 'Irish mentality' of 'sure it could be worse isnt it better than having no train at all'. Thats the kind of attitude that has our public services in the state their in you know. People in power know there will always be poeple like him willing to put up with it as 'it could be worse'.

If we dont complain IE will think everybody is happy and change nothing.

[Ballymore]

In answer to Colm yes I get a seat half way home and always get a seat on the way in as long as I get either of the 1st 2 morning trains from Mullingar. As a paying customer I expect a seat for the entire journey. I'm sure some will think thats unrealistic but I've always been an optimist!!

As for the pregnant lady, I'm sure it happens all the time but why doesnt she ask soemone to give up their seat. To be fair a pregnant woman could be standing beside me and I might not notice as I have my head in a book most of the time but if I did (or was asked by one) I'd offer my seat.

[Mark Hennessy]

In Tokyo they have people to push you in the doors at stations so the doors can close.


I've experienced the Tokyo situation first hand and while trains can get jammed (especially the last trains!) the chronic overcrowding only last brief periods , 7-10 mins.

My experience on the Maynooth line is that 20 mins of serious crowding from Tara to Ashtown is the norm and I can live that.

I would hate to spend 50 mins to an hour each day in those conditions though.

[Ballymore]

I used to be a daily Tube user in London and at rush hour was crammed in and as it's only for 10 -15 mins you get used to it and you live with it but thats about the limit I would expect to stand - also bear in mind in most of those other places mentioned you dont pay exhorbitant prices like with IE.

[Mark Hennessy]

I used to be a daily Tube user in London and at rush hour was crammed in and as it's only for 10 -15 mins you get used to it and you live with it but thats about the limit I would expect to stand - also bear in mind in most of those other places mentioned you dont pay exhorbitant prices like with IE.

In fairness you cant compare a city network like the tube to a long distance location like Mullingar when comparing prices.

In the UK, you pay a serious amount (probably twice that of your current ticket) for an annual ticket if commuting from 40-50 miles out from the city.

[Ballymore]

In fairness yes I wasnt thinking of it in context of an annual ticket for an equally long commute so probably an unfair comparison re the prices. :o

[James Shields]

I think we have to accept that standing during peak hours is the norm. The only way to avoid it would be to have hundreds of extra trains that stand idle except for two trips per day, and that's not practical.

That does not mean it's acceptable to have every train ar crush load for an hour plus. IE need to set targets for the acceptable levels of standing - both in terms of numbers and duration. It's not surprising people are rude when the alternative is to stand for the better part of an hour.

Most importantly, IE need to monitor and report on levels of crowding, so we can see an unbiased account of the situation, and so that they can target extra trains where they are needed most.

Personally, I get the train to Drogheda. I'm not sure if it's as bad as the Maynooth one, but it's close. I do try to avoid the worst of it by working late some days and leaving early others.

[Mark Gleeson]

Unnoticed to most several of the 29k railcars have passenger counting equipment

A large number of DART coaches, maybe 30 plus have passenger counters as well

What the do with the info god only knows

[constellation]

Unnoticed to most several of the 29k railcars have passenger counting equipment

A large number of DART coaches, maybe 30 plus have passenger counters as well

Do tell. How do they work and where are they? I promise not to abuse any information just to mess with IE management. :)

[Mark Gleeson]

I'm not giving it away since people will just mess with the gear if they find it, its very discrete above the door

Fact is you don't need gadgets easy say 1240 passengers on board when full and leaving people behind

[chuggachuggachoochoo]

I've been on a Dublin - Drogheda train, where it was so packed you couldn't even move you arm to get something out of a handbag and no where near a handrail for support, and where the doors could barely close due to the crush loading.

The 5:13 ex Pearse-Dundalk that doesnt stop until Skerries is a bit of a long stand if you're not pushy enough to get a seat. Today I heard someone remark that they sometimes wait for the 7pm enterprise to avoid the pushing and crowding.


Mind you I've seen bad over crowding on the Bus Eireann 101 buses too - one morning on a single decker coach with the stairs you have to walk up to the driver - it was so packed people were standing on the steps at the door and had to get off onto the hard shoulder of motorway to let other passengers off the bus. Though generally bus drivers wont stop if all/most of the seats are already taken.

[James Shields]

Interesting piece on Newstalk this morning where they interviewed the RSC about whether overcrowded trains are safe.

Ask any rail safety expert are the trains safe, and they will tell you they are, and from their viewpoint they are right. The chances of anyone being killed or injured in a train crash are extremely slim, and cramming more people in doesn't increase that risk. Irish railways are run to very high standards of safety.

However, there's another side to the issue of ppassenger safety that's ignored. That is whether it's safe to be crammed up against so many people. The risks are subtler, but just as real. The dangers include feinting from lack of air, catching diseases from other peoples exhaled germs, back and other problems as a result of being in a cramped posittion, being trampled by the crowd, being pushed from a crowded platform into the path on an oncoming train (have a look in Pearse at 5.15 on a weekday and you'll see what I mean).

Some of these haven't happened, but do we have to wait for a coroner's report before taking action?

[Ballymore]

It's hardly likely to be fatal or feature in any safety report but I do have really bad back and knee pain after standing for prolonged periods on the train.

Did that guy say something like 'if you dont think a train is safe then vote with your feet and dont get on.' I'm not sure as I only heard the 'build up' to the interview earlier on but not the actual discussion itself.

[Mark Gleeson]

http://83.138.170.50/podcasts/audio/2401train%20safety%201.mp3

On paper its safe, doesn't mean it feels safe

There are no legal standards with respect to passengers standing, either in Ireland or elsewhere in Europe. Commuter trains are designed for standing however intercity trains are not

UK have standards passengers in excess of capacity (PIXC) which monitors the number of passengers standing for more than 20 minutes, Irish Rail don't.

[ThomasJ]

In this mornings (Thursday) metro a few letters

How sick-making to see Noel Dempsey swinging out of a seemingly empty, train carriage during the launch of the Phoenix Park station. Whilst the opening of the station is, in theory, a good thing, the minister's carefree pose was an insult to all those customers who have to endure inhumane overcrowding on the same line, each and every day, (and the overcrowding reached new heights on the very day the station opened due to inane timetable changes). We'd all love to have a smile like Noel's on our faces on the Maynooth train but most of us can only manage asphyxiated grimace.


Last Monday both the 17.39 Pearse to Maynooth and the 18.09 Pearse to Maynooth were half their normal size. So much for a new timetable and an increase in services.

[Ballymore]

Cant see Noel and his like leaving the ministerial Merc in an IE car park (or illegally parked in a private housing estate) and slumming it into town with the likes of us too often! :D

[dowlingm]

re: James' point on diseases etc: on the TTC's new subway cars here in Toronto, the grab bars are supposed to have antibacterial surfaces to reduce the impact of people sniffling on their hands and then holding a bar.

[Mark Gleeson]

29k fleet have textured handles ideal for retaining nasty bugs

[Rashers]

http://83.138.170.50/podcasts/audio/2401train%20safety%201.mp3
Thanks for that Mark.
2 Interesting points in the interview.
Overcrowding to this extend is acceptable with high frequency, so a passenger can just wait for the next service. However, there is a 40 minute gap in the morning rush hour on the Drogheda line. So there goes that argument.
Passengers can vote with their feet if they are not happy. Again, not a realistic option. The Dublin Bus from Balbriggan via Skerries, Rush, Lusk etc. can take 1-1.5 hours in the morning peak. Hardly an option. Also, would the DTO recommend passengers use their cars if they are unhappy?

Anyway, good to see Newstalk are going to follow up on this one.

[Mark Gleeson]

Rather disappointed the RSC chief inspector attitude to the problem.

People are regularly standing on intercity trains particularly into Heuston, thats not on.

All very much a case of Irish Rail said it was ok, so its ok. Sadly it will take a nasty incident before someone listens up. The UK had a incident with a rush hour train in 1991 at 5-10mph, 1 dead, 265 injured, ok it was a ancient train but repeat same for a modern train at 30mph result would be nasty

At least in the UK they are getting down to hard data http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmtran/201/20107.htm

[Kat]

I get the 17.50 from Dun Laoghaire to Mullingar most evenings and on the new timetable it gets into Mullingar at 19.50 and on the old timetable it use to get in at 19.40 but it still leaves Dun Laoghaire at the same time and stops at the sames stops, which is strange.

It sits outside Enfield waiting on the oncoming Sligo train to pass but the delay is getting worse, as last night the train did not get into Mullingar last night till after 8.00pm. Will resolve over the next few weeks, does anyone know?

All those who want this service removed, shame on you, as there is quite a few that do get off in Mullingar and there is a few like me that travel out to Dun Laoghaire

[Ballymore]

It took several tragic needless deaths on school buses before the Government did anything about safety there and I'm afraid it looks like it will be the same with the trains.

[ThomasJ]

I know there is two chances of this being still around but does anyone know where i could get the podcast of Tuesdays piece on the Phoenix Park station and the overcrowding issue on newstalk 106

[Ballymore]

Last night the 18:05 stopped in siding at Killucan at 19:08, an announcement was made that we would be held up for a few minutes due to late running of Sligo - Dublin train. Ended up moving on at 19:22 arriving in Mullingar at 19:30 some 16 minutes late.

As if our day isnt long enough already!

They hardly made up 16 minutes by the time it got to Longford so I wonder does that affect their punctuality stats?

[ThomasJ]

Might be worth a read

From Westmeath Examiner 19/01/2008


http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/story.asp?stID=836&cid=181&cid2=


To hell and back on trains - commuters angry over poor service

Ronan Casey
reports


Commuters from the Mullingar area are seething with Iarnród Éireann over what they claim to be a desperate track record of poor service on the commuter line to and from Dublin.

As the state transport provider introduces new carriages, more expensive fares and a new timetable, commuters who pay upwards of 2,600 euros per year to take the train are livid that they have not been provided with adequate answers to a litany of a complaints.

From late services to overcrowded trains, from unheated carriages to unexplained breakdowns, from false promises to a general lack of passenger information, rail commuters have suffered more than most in recent years, and the Mullingar Commuter Group which represents hundreds of commuters from the area allege that Iarnród Éireann has led them on a 12 month merry go round in 2007.

200 regular train users have signed a petition over the past year, and made comments on the service. They are angry that many of their suggestions have not been taken on board by Iarnród Éireann.

The service has been compared to that of a third world country, and the commuter group members are also livid that many of their complaints have allegedly been “swept under the carpet” by Iarnród Éireann.

The Mullingar Commuter Group, and dozens of other commuters who have contacted the Examiner in recent weeks, want at least some of the following: - An evening service from Dublin to Mullingar. It was suggested that it could be one of the later Maynooth trains which would continue onto Mullingar (or Longford) where it would sit overnight making a new early morning service a possibility.

- An earlier service from Mullingar which would arrive in Dublin before 8am. Commuters feel this could be achieved by either the above, or by moving a 6.45am service from Enfield departing from Mullingar instead at 6.20am.

- A manned helpdesk as commuters feel they are constantly moved between spokespersons. They want to see Iarnród Éireann hire a passenger liaison official. Commuter Derek Newcombe says “Iarnród Éireann customer service is designed to deter passengers from contacting them”.

- Extra carriages, particularly on the 18:05 home from Dublin. One commuter claimed overcrowding on it is so bad that he has not had a seat between Dublin and Maynooth in over 18 months.

The Examiner has seen a log of complaints prepared by the commuter group, and many of the responses from Iarnród Éireann have proved to be contradictory, particularly in relation to timetable changes.

For example, in May 2007, commuter Antoinette Glennon wrote to Iarnród Éireann wondering if the weekday 7am service from Longford to Dublin was going to start in Sligo from the start of 2008. Michael Power of Iarnród Éireann said the company had “no plans to start it in Sligo when we change the timetable in December”. Then, in December, the company revealed that the new 07:26 service from Mullingar would, in fact, start in Sligo.

In a communication to Mullingar Commuter Group member Eleanor Maher in October 2007, Paul Slowey from Iarnród Éireann promised a much sought after night service after 7pm.

“Following various representations, we will be operating an additional service from Pearse Street Station to Mullingar at 9pm, serving all stations in between,” trumpeted Mr. Slowey. However, there was to be a quick about turn from Iarnród Éireann, who explained a few days later that “we looked seriously at operating a 9pm service, (but) due to driver and rolling stock resources, this could only be achieved by cancelling the 18:17 service beyond Maynooth.”

Heating on the train has been a big issue for commuters. Some claim there was no heat for a full three weeks in November. “The lack of heat during the winter has become an annual event,” said commuter Derek Newcombe. “This is just a total lack of respect shown by Iarnród Éireann to their passengers.”

However, it is unlikely that new trains will be laid on early in the morning as Iarnród Éireann made it clear in numerous communications that they are prioritising improvements to the stations with the greatest numbers between Maynooth and Ashtown. “Very heavy loadings are being experienced on certain trains with the result that, on occasion, passengers are being left behind at stations,” a spokesman detailed last year.

He explained that providing an extra service out of Mullingar in the morning within the current carriage resources “would require significant alterations in scheduling with either an extra set in Longford in the morning or running a very early morning service out of Dublin. With both distance and time involved this would be at the expense of passengers at intermediate stations, where the need is greatest.”

Commuters also refute Iarnród Éireann claims that the route has a punctuality rating consistently over 95%. One commuter alleges that some evenings the Dublin/Sligo services are late leaving Dublin and reaching Mullingar, but because they make up the time elsewhere on the track, by the time they reach Sligo they are not regarded as late.

A three-hour breakdown which made national headlines in early November last year was not an isolated incident, with commuters detailing several similar breakdowns which received little attention. They also claimed some of these were unexplained.
Responses

This week, Iarnród Éireann`s chief spokesperson Barry Kenny said all breakdowns are explained to passengers. He also held out some hope for further timetable changes to be taken on board. He said a 9pm service “is something we would like to introduce ourselves” and he predicted there would be demand for this “good service”. But to introduce it now, something has to give.

“With the amount of rolling stock on the line and available crews we would have to cancel the 18:17 service, which is an important service as it is. The number of people discommoded by this would far exceed the amount of people the later service would satisfy. However, as we go forward, it is certainly something we aspire to introduce, and we will certainly look at doing so in the near future as at that stage new rolling stock and train crews will be available. At the moment, we must use what we have to prioritise our peak time services.”

He indicated that a service after 7pm will be considered for the next timetable change.
He said they do take commuters` views on board when they prepare new timetables, and will continue to do so. This may see the 6.43am Enfield service move back down the line to leave Mullingar instead.

“We will certainly look at this in the future. What Mullingar passengers need to be aware of is that the service is ONLY going to expand in the future, and an extra morning service is an area we`re looking into.” He said there are “competing demands” at the moment, which is making a decision on this not feasible at present.

He admitted there has been “intermittent faults on the fleet” with their heating system, “but we have put additional maintenance resources to that and we hope to see an immediate improvement there.” He said the company has a customer services office, customer services manager and a service planning manager who all “endeavour to assist customers in every regard and will continue to do so” so there was no need to hire a liaison officer.

He concluded by saying there are no plans for extra carriages to augment the four for the 18:05 service as, by the time it leaves Maynooth, there are seats.

[Ballymore]

Yes I seen that when it was published. By the way has any one actually had 'contact' with this mysterious Mullingar Commuter Group - I've been on the train about 4 years now and have never seen a survey or been approached to join or anything. Is there a secret handshake / password that you have to know or is it those 4 or 5 lads doling out the beer most nights in the front carriage on the 18:05? Mmmmm I wonder......:D

[Ballymore]

I found this website when I was looking for a place to complain to Irish Rail and also to see how other commuters were dealing with the hassles of commuting. I have just got a reply from IE with reagrd to my initial complaint about the unacceptable overcrowding on Jan 21st.


"Thank you for your email of 22nd January regarding your journey on the 18.05 hrs. service from Connolly on 21st January, 2008.
Due to faults on two railcar sets on the day in question, services to Maynooth and Longford ran as smaller trains than normal, causing a spill over to the 18.05 hrs. train resulting in heavy loadings on this train also. I would like to apologise for the discomfort that this caused.
As with commuter railways throughout Europe, passengers may not be guaranteed a seat for the whole journey at peak times. I would like to assure you that we are making full use of our available carriage fleet to maximise the number of services operated. We have also increased the frequency of service on the Sligo route and these services will serve Mullingar station."

[John J]

By the way has any one actually had 'contact' with this mysterious Mullingar Commuter Group - I've been on the train about 4 years now and have never seen a survey or been approached to join or anything.

I signed two petitions back when I used that service... one in 2005 to get an extra express service between 17.00 and 19.00 (which possibly contributed to what has become the 18.05)... another in the middle of last year which I think was a general complaint regarding delays, heat, lack of evening services, overcrowding etc.
Don't think there's any formal "group" though.

[Ballymore]

I see, I was just wondering as they have often been quoted in local press. The mystery lives on the phantom 'Mullingar Commuter Group'. :D

[zag]

I know someone who 'set up' his own group when he was unhappy with the way some other group he belonged to was operating.

He was quoted in the papers regularly as something along the lines of "North Dublin Concerned Citizens Against Animal Cruelty" despite the fact he was the only person in the organisation. You may well find that the Mullingar Commuter Group operates on a similar basis.

z

[Ballymore]

You might be right, maybe the next quote in the newspapers will be from the 'Continuity Mullingar Commuter Group' :D

[Mark Gleeson]

Just like to confirm that according to the internal Irish Rail timetable the 18:05 service is rostered to be 4 coaches in length only

[plant43]

I think the real root question here should be: why are you commuting from Mullingar to Dublin?

[Ballymore]

I think the real root question here should be: why are you commuting from Mullingar to Dublin?

Eh primarily because I feel overall despite the travelling I have a better standard of life, as do my kids, living out in the country rather than being cooped up in a cramped semi d with noisy nosy neighbours and a chicken run for a back garden. :p Additionally they go to a nice school which unlike IE carriages isnt over crowded. :D

And partly because at one stage it looked like my job might relocate out that direction but it didnt happen.:(

[Thomas J Stamp]

I think the real root question here should be: why are you commuting from Mullingar to Dublin?

early contender for worst post of the year.

the fact is that the planning of this country over the past 17 years has left people with no option but ot do this. While we do occcasionally will advise people not to move out to Nass/Salins/Mullingar just to commute we do this because we know it'll be hell and the impending movee dosnt.

Having a pop at someone for living there is beyond the bounds of decency to me, and you're lucky i havent gotten round to creating a new infraction offence for being a dick.

[plant43]

early contender for worst post of the year.

the fact is that the planning of this country over the past 17 years has left people with no option but ot do this. While we do occcasionally will advise people not to move out to Nass/Salins/Mullingar just to commute we do this because we know it'll be hell and the impending movee dosnt.

Having a pop at someone for living there is beyond the bounds of decency to me, and you're lucky i havent gotten round to creating a new infraction offence for being a dick.

Well done on reading something into the post that wasn't there. I was merely interested to know why people would put themselves through such a long commute. In this case, the OP has said he enjoys a better quality of life despite all the travelling, so that's fair enough.

I don't buy into this "no choice" thing. There is always a choice about where you can live as far as I'm concerned.

My post wasn't meant as an attack on the OP and I don't think he took it as such, so why you did is beyond me.

[Aphfaneire]

Well done on reading something into the post that wasn't there. I was merely interested to know why people would put themselves through such a long commute. In this case, the OP has said he enjoys a better quality of life despite all the travelling, so that's fair enough.

I don't buy into this "no choice" thing. There is always a choice about where you can live as far as I'm concerned.

My post wasn't meant as an attack on the OP and I don't think he took it as such, so why you did is beyond me.

Seriosly you cant believe that. A lot of people have no choice. Dublin costs a fortune to live in, its infeisable for most people. All cities work like this, all cities have a commuter belt. But most cities have modern systems and good roads. Dublin doenst. Dublin is an overpriced poorly developed sprawl with an overstretched inadequate public transport system.

[Mark Gleeson]

In other forums the question would be reasonable, sadly here this is the forum for victims of the poor planning in this state.

I had the very strange experience of talking to a transport planner about this very issue and purely on the numbers 30+ miles is not a runner, plain inefficient use of resources. This person lived 41 miles out :D. If you did that you could carry huge amount of extra people, purely on the basis of you can pack'em in to crush levels and more efficient train use. The horse bolted about 1997 way way too late now, if only the DRRTS study of 1975 was implemented (and it could have been) we wouldn't be here

Can't recommend anyone commuting by rail beyond the Dublin suburban boundary (Maynooth/Greystones/Balbriggan/Hazelhatch). We do our best if you are stuck already.

The government has put a large number of people in limbo with decentralisation, people have moved outwards on the promise (or contractual requirement) of the office moving to a certain town, hasn't happened.

[Ballymore]

Just to clarify, I took no offence at the question and as you can see was quite happy to give my reasons.

I appreciate that with the current housing market thousands of people have essentially been displaced from areas they would prefer to live in order to find 'affordable housing' but we actually chose to move to Ballymore of our own free will. I was fully aware of the fact that I would be commuting to Dublin unless I got a job nearer to home and as yet that hasnt happened so the commuting continues.:)

[Thomas J Stamp]

Well done on reading something into the post that wasn't there. I was merely interested to know why people would put themselves through such a long commute. In this case, the OP has said he enjoys a better quality of life despite all the travelling, so that's fair enough.

I don't buy into this "no choice" thing. There is always a choice about where you can live as far as I'm concerned.

My post wasn't meant as an attack on the OP and I don't think he took it as such, so why you did is beyond me.

you were having a pop, the fact the is good natured enough not to be offended is not relevent, others would be.

Glad you are lucky enough not to buy into the "no choice" thing, well done you. Many of our members do not have that choice. As Mark says, and as I said, we do not recommend living outside the surburban boundary but if you do that is your own business. If you weren't having a pop at either Ballymore personally, or those who commute long distance in gereral then why bother with the post in the first place? Let me guess, its part of some research you're conducting? Give it up.

[lambo77]

Mullingar commute is not that bad. I believe the extra 45-60 mins travel is worth it. I have a big house with plenty of space,have a realtivley small mortgage and plenty of amenities. Some people on the outskirts of Dublin such as Lucan and Citywest that work with me have a similar commuting time in the morning and evening yet they have to pay dublin prices for property etc and live in overcrowded estates.
All we need is a few later services in the evening like Dundalk has.

[chris]

I don't think most people here are qualified to make comments about planning, so RUI should get back to talking about its core issues.

If anyone wants to talk about planning in a different forum, I suggest you head along to the planning debate tomorrow (Tues 5th Feb) in Trinity College (Emmet Theatre) at 7:30, Admission Free

[Ballymore]

I don't think most people here are qualified to make comments about planning, so RUI should get back to talking about its core issues.

If anyone wants to talk about planning in a different forum, I suggest you head along to the planning debate tomorrow (Tues 5th Feb) in Trinity College (Emmet Theatre) at 7:30, Admission Free

Sorry Chris but thats a bit of an assumption isnt it? Maybe we're all town planners for all you know. (Christ I hope not - otherwise we've a lot of answering to do...:D)

Does that mean because we're not football players we cant specualte on who gets the Irish job, or because I'm not a movie star I cant say a movie is good or bad? Dont think so. :p

[chris]

I don't think most people here are qualified to make comments about planning

Sorry Chris but thats a bit of an assumption isnt it? Maybe we're all town planners for all you know

That's why I said "think", not "know". Anyway, experts or not, we won't change it by posting about it on this forum. It's as futile as arguing with the geography of a country - transport just has to deal with it, it can't greatly change it.

[Derek Wheeler]

Im coming back to this thread. Just have to finish cooking the roast spuds.:D

[Derek Wheeler]

Ah yes, they sure were nice spuds and the sirloin steak wasn't too bad either. (licks lips and gets down to business.):D

This is a big thread thats wandering all over the place, but the theme seems to be consistant, so I'll try to incorporate as much of the discussion as possible in no particular order.

T. Stamps "row" with plant43 is fairly irrelevent. Plant43s question is perhaps born out of naievity rather than malice. I don't see the point of singling the poster out for redicule. Education is a better concept than attack.The question of people having a "choice" of where they live is a very difficult one. While bad planning is an obvious cause contender, we must remember that Ireland is unique in terms of its attitude to living space. In this country we have developed a culture that demands you aspire to owning a home as soon as you shake off mammys apron strings. So it was this demand that fuelled rising land prices, which in turn encouraged "dodgey" planning. Before long it was all out of control and commuter rail services were been dictated by the TD who could shout the loudest. Hence they're a badly structured mess in many areas.
Unfortunetly Transport 21 is not designed to address the problems of the past. The interconnector (DART Tunnel) will deliver the groundwork for solving the problem, but only if IE have the vision and the freedom to introduce worthwhile services to outer suburban areas. I disagree with some here that "recommend" people don't live outside the short hop commuter zone. Real life tells us that thousands do and actually have "no choice" based on the culture that has been created. I don't think that Ballymore should have to justify why he/she lives in Mullingar and works in Dublin, just as I don't think that plant43 should be taken to task for asking. These are the mysteries that successive Governments have provided us with. If they had Governed properly, we wouldn't be arguing over the issue.

As for standing on commuter services, I would deem a 30 minute journey standing as acceptable, but beyond that, no way. In terms of the Mullingar commute, there is no point arguing with the current set up whereby Maynooth passengers get a seat and a passenger going beyond Maynooth has to wait until said Maynooth passenger vacates a seat. Its first come first served. This brings us back to the "commuter train" that does a 140 + mile round trip. The reason for it brings us back to what I already said. Bad Planning. However Transport 21 has a drawbridge mentality to it. It caters for the traditional commuter area. Its routed in the DTOs Platform for change document, a document that is so out of date, it makes George Formby look contemporary. This is probably why the DTO are beginning a "beyond 2015" document. Too little, too late for what has happened beyond the pale. T21 is predominantly geared towards serving the high density developments that have finally started to appear and those being planned.(all within the Dublin city/county limits.

Mark Gleeson mentioned the original DART plan from the 70s. I used to think that had it been implemented in full, then we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. But after some reflection and further research, I say that it wouldn't have stopped the outrageous planning decisions that took place in the GDA. But T21 could still have solved what we have now. Now, our man, Chris, is probably thinking that I'm a "planner". But of course, Im not a "professional" planner and have no "formal qualifications" in that area. But since I helped set up this organisation in 2003, I have learned far more than any University could teach me. Dublin is barely comparable to anything else in Europe. Our great hope that is T21 will evapourate into yet more gridlock and we'll have Platform for Change 2 attempting to deal with it as if it has just arrived. The people in charge are years behind, so why expect the service to be years ahead?

Time for dessert. Sugar free Angel Delight (Im Diabetic).:D

[Ballymore]

A new development - last few evenings the 18:05 from Connolly has sat just a feww hundred yards short of Mullingar station for 2-3 minutes before eventually moving up to allow us disembark. Any ideas why?

[Mark Gleeson]

Either the train ahead was still in the platform in Mullingar or there was a train going the other way, one train must wait until the other is safely in the platform before entering the station

[Ballymore]

Definitely no train seen going the other way anyway.

[Ballymore]

Quite annoying when we are already arriving late to stop short and be delayed further without any explanation.

[CSL]

Aren't there two platforms at Mullingar [ or even a 3rd unused one ? ]

[James Shields]

There are actually four. There was a third platform added on the Sligo line, but there was already an extra platform on the Athlone line.

[Mark Gleeson]

On a single track route, where a station has two platforms only one train is allowed to enter the station at a time, this avoids the situation where one train fails to stop and crashes into the other

[ThomasJ]

Tonights 18:13 tara street longford service was six coach 2800 and left people behind at tara street.

[Ballymore]

Another delay getting into Mullingar last night and this time I did notice a Dublin bound train passing on the other side before we moved into the station. Looks like this is going to be a daily occurance now.

[Ballymore]

My recent good run of getting a seat at Connolly on this one came to an end yesterday and I had to stand to Maynooth again. :(

It was very crowded last night, more so than usual I thought.

[awhooley]

hey there, i am new to this fourm, (hey ballymore, we must be neighbours!:D )

So, to begin with my very first post may I ask did anyone notice this lately?:- Since the new timetable was implemented, the new early service from Dublin to Sligo is rostered to arrive in Mullingar at 08:15 but ACTUALY arrives at about 25 mins past.

Well, since this has been happening, the 08:53 service to Dublin has been about 10 mins late ever since!

[Ballymore]

Hi awhooley and welcome to the forum. The Ballymore contingent just doubled!

I actually got the 08:53 on 3 occasions last week and it was on time(ish) bar a minute or two so is it only this week it's been 10 minutes late?

I normally get the 07:26 myself and though it's not very late I've never seen it actually leave at 07:26 yet!

[awhooley]

Hey Ballymore, thanks for the welcome!. Yeah, the 08:53 was about 5 mins late yesterday morning, so its probably getting better. As for the 0726, I get that on Wednesday and Thursday mornings. And your'e right, never arrived at 0726 yet! normally the old time (0733). Typical Irish Rail: 'Nothing Added but Time!' I like that quote! :D

[awhooley]

wow, i actually got a seat on the 1805 yesterday! whoo hoo!

[ThomasJ]

Well for some! The 18:08 Connolly Maynooth was utter hell last night. Was crushed against the door for half of the journey. Although the 18:05 didn't look too bad last night!

[awhooley]

I got the 18:08 a few times to see relatives in Castleknock, and hell that Train gets packed!!! Reminds me of Tokyo!

[thedailygrudge]

Hi Ballymore,

Yes, a group of complain regularly but Paul Slowey of Irish Rail doesn't really see the need to put on more carriages on the 18.05 Longford train.
In one meeting, he explained to us that it is a fact of modern day life that we have to stand and we are lucky we are not on more crowded services. He then said that you always get seats in Maynooth anyway! This is not the case now with some people standing to Enfield or Mullingar.

This was the email I received from P. SLowey of Irish Rail;

"The new 17.05 hrs. Sligo service is proving very popular with Mullingar commuters as it runs non-stop. Staff undertake a passenger count shortly before departure but even with a number of passengers joining it in the last 5 minutes, I have not received any feedback in regard to passengers standing on board. Every year we undertake a survey of passenger loadings on every single service and trends show an increase in passenger travel which reflects on the good service being provided. Currently we do not have any further carriages available to add to the 18.05 hrs. Longford service but we will re-visit the situation for our next timetable."

ANother email stated;
"Currently there are no further carriages available to boost train sizes but in the medium term, new Intercity railcars will give some additional suburban rolling stock into the Dublin Connolly based fleet which will ease the loadings on some services. However there is simply insufficient carriages to provide large trains on all services."

I find that this is just a fob off & they always focus on the fact we should be so "grateful" for the 17.05 express new trains.

What about the rest of us working til 5.30 with no option to catch the nice trains? Also no option to get home after 19.00. Becuase obviously none of us work that late!!! So lucky we have such a "good service" his words not mine!

[SardineFrank]

well realistically the 18.05 service should skip maynooth. the maynooth folk have the dart service option.

this train was brought in to address the fact trains take ages to get to mullingar... yet maynooth is made a stop and there's just to god damn many of them who will ruin it for all mullingar folk because it's a lil faster for them.

as it is it's crowded, smelly, and i've got to stand for the best part of an hour.

i take the 19.05 as a consequence. at least i have comfort but home i don't see until 8.25ish. alas...