Derailment on northern line [Archive] - Rail Users Ireland Forum

Rashers

11-01-2008, 06:51

From IE website:
Travel Alerts
SEVERE DISRUPTION TO NORTHERN LINE & BELFAST SERVICES by Corporate Communications

11th January 2008 - 05.15hrs

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that Northern line services will be severely disrupted today due to the derailment of a freight train south of Skerries last night.

All services for this morning's peak are cancelled between Dundalk/Drogheda and Dublin. Iarnród Éireann advises customers to make alternative arrangements.

Dublin/Belfast services are also disrupted. Bus transfers will operate for Dublin/Belfast services to Drogheda/Dundalk.

Iarnród Éireann crews are working to clear the line as soon as possible in order to have one track open, to provide a limited service later today.

As the derailment has caused damage to track and sleepers, it is not expected that full services will resume until later in the weekend at the earliest.

An investigation has been launched into the cause of the derailment, which involved a laden mineral ore freight train running from Tara Mines to North Wall. The incident occurred shortly before 11.00pm and six wagons on the train derailed.

Further service information will be updated at this site as soon as it becomes available.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

Rashers

11-01-2008, 07:18

For the fun of it, went to real time information. Show's services operating normally:

Real Time Train Information Results - 07:16

Southbound trains serving Balbriggan in the next 30 minutes
Journey ETA Scheduled Platform Due In Current Location
Drogheda to Bray 07:34 07:34 1 18 Mins Drogheda

Dundalk to Connolly
07:42 07:42 1 26 Mins Dundalk
This information is an estimate of arrival times based on the current location of train services from Iarnród Éireann's central signalling system, and on scheduled journey time from areas under local signalling control. Cirumstances subsequent to the time of enquiry cannot be factored into this information.

Mark

11-01-2008, 08:28

Maybe this will have an effect on their %age of trains 'on time'.... or maybe not..

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 09:22

The usual IE can't be arsed approach

1. There is no reason what so ever that a full service cannot be operated between Laytown Drogheda and Dundalk or even as far as Balbriggan, people do commute to other places

2. The incident took place last night and effected the 22:22 ex Pearse and the 23:20 ex Connolly, no notice appeared on the IE site until this morning

3. As usual IE don't say you are entitled to a refund. Its a derailment of a train almost certainly IE are at fault somewhere. Anyone with a weekly, monthly or annual ticket is entitled to claim compensation. So face value annual divided by 424 is what you are due per journey while the line remains closed.

On Enterprise just about everyone traveling on ticket purchased before the notification of the derailment, i.e pre bookings or people using the return portion of a ticket are entitled to a refund since the bus transfer is going to lead to delays, 25% refunds apply on all enterprise services once 30 minutes late

Mark Hennessy

11-01-2008, 09:30

Iarnród Éireann advises customers to make alternative arrangements.

BE had to issue a statement this morning to say that they cannot handle the extra commuters, after someone else had urged them to get the bus.

Another total disaster from IE, nice day off for their staff on the Northen line though.

ThomasJ

11-01-2008, 09:53

Is there any impact on other commuter services in the Dublin area?

Is there enough carriages to run todays services without those carriages that are trapped on the Drogheda depot side?

Did this mornings Rosslare service as normal albeit from Connolly?

ThomasJ

11-01-2008, 10:18

From RTE News

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0111/rail.html

Commuter rail disruption after derailment
Friday, 11 January 2008 09:36
There has been severe disruption to northern line rail services in Dublin after a freight train derailed in the north of the county.

All commuter services for this morning's peak time are cancelled between Dundalk/ Drogheda and Dublin.

Around 11pm last night, six wagons of a train carrying mineral ore went off the tracks at Hacketstown, 3km south of Skerries, Co Dublin. It had been travelling from Tara Mines to North Wall, Dublin.

Iarnród Éireann has advised customers planning to use northern line services to make alternative travel arrangements and up to 7,000 people are expected to be affected by the disruption.

The company says north line DART services from Malahide and Howth are unaffected and will operate as normal.

Bus transfers will be provided on the mainline Dublin to Belfast rail service.

An investigation into how the derailment happened is also being launched.

Bus Éireann says that they are assisting Irish Rail in trying to procure buses through Bus Eireann contractors.

Bus Éireann says that they will keep buses on the affected routes out longer than normal to try to facilitate as many passengers as possible.

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 10:20

Of course they had 7 hours to work this out, Dublin Bus have a lot of spare buses and drivers thanks to the DoT

And the Port Tunnel was available to slash the journey times by bus

They had 7 hours IE had nothing in place

Since the 22:22 & 23:20 where stuck on the Connolly side there was stock to cover all other services this morning

hhf8

11-01-2008, 10:32

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 10:37

Like I've posted perviously

Full service Dundalk - Ballbriggan would have been possible

Limited service, train every 30-40 minutes would be possible Donabate inwards depending on the availabilty of trains and looks like that would be a goer

As they say failing to plan = planning to fail

packetswitch

11-01-2008, 10:46

At least the website notice has a little more detail than the old style - Mark's ongoing battle seems to be having an impact!

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 11:39

Latest information indicates a full service Skerries-Dundalk could have been provided this morning but was not

Derailment location is given as 3km south of Skerries and IE have publicly stated that a defect on a wagon is suspected at this stage

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 12:20

Word now is the northbound track has been reopened

IE have not updated the notice on their site

Trains will have to run wrong track Malahide to Skerries

ThomasJ

11-01-2008, 12:41

RTE News- Updated 12.11

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0111/rail.html

It is expected that a partial rail service will be restored on the northern rail line this afternoon following a derailment.

Around 7,000 commuters who use the service between Dublin and Belfast had to make alternative arrangements this morning after the line was blocked by a derailed train.

All peak time commuter services this morning's peak time were cancelled between Dundalk/Drogheda and Dublin.

Around 11pm last night, six wagons of a train carrying mineral ore went off the tracks in Hacketstown, 3km south of Skerries. It had been travelling from Tara Mines to North Wall.

Iarnród Eireann has advised customers planning to use northern line services to make alternative travel arrangements.

The company says north line DART services from Malahide and Howth are unaffected and will operate as normal.

However full rail services will not be restored until the weekend at the earliest.

Bus transfers will be provided on the mainline Dublin to Belfast rail service.

An investigation into how the derailment happened is also being launched.

Bus Eireann says that it is assisting Irish Rail in trying to procure buses through Bus Eireann contractors.

It says says that it will keep buses on the affected routes longer than normal to try to facilitate as many passengers as possible.

ThomasJ

11-01-2008, 12:45

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/travel_alerts.asp?action=view&news_id=321

SEVERE DISRUPTION TO NORTHERN LINE & BELFAST SERVICES by Corporate Communications

11th January 2008 - 12.30hrs
Iarnród Éireann advises customers that Northern line services will be severely disrupted today due to the derailment of a freight train south of Skerries last night.

All services for this morning's peak are cancelled between Dundalk/Drogheda and Dublin. Iarnród Éireann advises customers to make alternative arrangements.

Dublin/Belfast services are also disrupted. Bus transfers will operate for Dublin/Belfast services to Drogheda/Dundalk. Delays of 30 to 40 minutes may occur.

Iarnród Éireann crews are working to clear the line as soon as possible in order to have one track open, to provide a limited service later today.
As the derailment has caused damage to track and sleepers, it is not expected that full services will resume until later in the weekend at the earliest.

An investigation has been launched into the cause of the derailment, which involved a laden mineral ore freight train running from Tara Mines to North Wall. The incident occurred shortly before 11.00pm and six wagons on the train derailed.

Further service information will be updated at this site as soon as it becomes available.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

tigger1962

11-01-2008, 12:47

I arrived in dundalk, for once not checking here or having heard the news! It must have been premonition as I didn't want to get out of bed this morning!!! Anyway when i got to the Station at 7.40 i noted that the bottom carpark was relatively empty, which I found strange... the upper carpark was full and there was a bus pulling out of the station, about 50% full... It was then I found out about the situation.. those of us arriving were told of the derailment and that they couldn't get any more busses to take us to dublin as they were all used on the earlier services and that we would have to make our own way to Dublin... I asked about refunds and was told that I would have to contact head office to find out if i was entitled to a refund! When i said i had an annual ticket one of the other personal spoke up and said I would be entitled to one and to get a refund form and apply for a refund... I eventually drove to Howth Junction (easier for me to get parking than malahide)

Where did IE come up with that 7000 no for commuters? Is it based on nos of weekly/monthly/annual ticket holders from all the stations? of based on the maximum capacity of the trains?

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 12:58

at 1240 per 8 coach train it does appear to be roughly correct, maybe a little low in fact

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 13:21

Time seems to have no meaning to Irish Rail, why can't they just use the last modifed time which they get for free

NORTHERN LINE & BELFAST LINE - SOME SERVICES TO RESUME by Corporate Communications

11th January 2008 - 12.30hrs

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that limited Northern Line services are resuming following a derailment of a freight train south of Skerries last night.

Dundalk/Drogheda and Dublin Services

A limited northbound service will operate this afternoon with close to full northbound services operating at evening peak.

Southbound services will be limited.

Dublin/Belfast services

13.20hrs Connolly - Belfast services will operate.

Following last services tonight, the Northern line will be closed and remain closed through the weekend to allow track repairs. It is hoped that full normal services will be in opeation by Monday morning.

Further service information will be updated at this site as soon as it becomes available.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

ThomasJ

11-01-2008, 14:04

Following last services tonight, the Northern line will be closed and remain closed through the weekend to allow track repairs. It is hoped that full normal services will be in opeation by Monday morning.

Does it take two tracks closed over the whole weekend to allow track repairs? any idea was much damage done to the tracks?

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 14:14

RTE have some snaps http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0111/rail.html

Its the facing crossover about 400m from Skerries from what I can see, not quite 3km

That means its single line from Malahide to Balbriggan

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 15:53

Another update

Close to full isn't full. No listing of the actual trains running

NORTHERN LINE & BELFAST LINE - LIMITED SERVICES RESUMING by Corporate Communications

Update: Friday 11th January 2008 - 14.00hrs

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that limited Northern Line services are resuming following a derailment of a freight train south of Skerries last night. Please note that Normal DART Services are operating.

Dundalk/Drogheda and Dublin Services: A limited northbound service will operate this afternoon with close to full northbound services operating at evening peak.

Southbound services will be limited.

Dublin/Belfast/Dublin services:

13.20hrs Dublin - Belfast Enterprise service will operate and all subsequent services will operate with minor delays up to:

20.10hrs Belfast - Dublin service will operate by rail to Drogheda with bus transfers from Drogheda to Connolly Station, Dublin.

Saturday 12th and Sunday 13th January.

Following last services tonight (Friday 11th), the Northern line will be closed and remain closed through the weekend to allow track repairs.

Dundalk/Drogheda and Dublin Services: No Northbound/Southbound Commuter services will operate on Saturday 12th and Sunday 13th January.

Dublin/Belfast/Dublin services :Northbound Dublin/Belfast services will operate by bus transfers from Dublin, Connolly to Drogheda and by rail from Drogheda to Belfast.

Southbound Belfast/Dublin services will operate by rail from Belfast to Drogheda and by bus transfer from Drogheda and Connolly Station, Dublin. A delay of 30 to 40 minutes delay may occur on these services.

Please note normal DART services will operate.

Monday 14th January

It is hoped that full normal services will be in operation by Monday morning.

Iarnród Éireann apologises for the inconvenience caused.

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 16:05

Always find it curious that Translink have a much more honest report of the situation

Enterprise - Cross-Border Line Information 11-Jan-2008 16:09
Translink would like to advise passengers that, following the derailment of a freight train at Skerries on Thursday evening, the railway line between Drogheda and Dublin has now temporarily re-opened for Enterprise services only, however the line will close again over the weekend to facilitate track repairs.

Enterprise services will be affected as follows:

Friday 11th January
All services will operate as scheduled, with the exception of the 2010 service from Belfast Central to Dublin Connolly, which will have a bus substitution from Drogheda to Dublin.

Saturday 12th January
The railway line between Drogheda and Dublin will be closed for repairs. A bus substitution will operate between Drogheda and Dublin Connolly for all Enterprise services.

Sunday 13th January
Iarnroad Eireann are currently advising passengers to expect a bus substitution between Drogheda and Dublin. Confirmation will follow as soon as possible.

Intending passengers are advised to expect delays to Enterprise services during periods of bus substitution.

In addition, we cannot guarantee the availability of First Plus and catering facilities on Enterprise services this weekend.

For further information, please contact the Translink Call Centre on (028) 90 66 66 30 (seven days, 7am to 8pm).

The reason First and catering can't be guaranteed is that they can't swap the locomotives or get them repaired

Advice - Get the normal bus cheaper and faster

ThomasJ

11-01-2008, 16:14

Translink would like to advise passengers that, following the derailment of a freight train at Skerries on Thursday evening, the railway line between Drogheda and Dublin has now temporarily re-opened for Enterprise services only, however the line will close again over the weekend to facilitate track repairs.

Are some Drogheda/Dundalk services not running?

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 16:17

Are some Drogheda/Dundalk services not running?

IE say they are but have provided no list

There is a 12 mile single line section to deal with so it will be fun to see how Dublin bound Enterprise trains get through

Thomas J Stamp

11-01-2008, 16:28

IE say they are but have provided no list

There is a 12 mile single line section to deal with so it will be fun to see how Dublin bound Enterprise trains get through

they're being stopped in Dundalk/Droug....

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 16:56

They are running through according to IE and NIR

Mark Gleeson

11-01-2008, 19:08

Little bit of media coverage on this from today http://www.railusers.ie/podcasts/audio/11012008-FM104_News.mp3

Or subscribe to our podcast feed, details http://www.railusers.ie/podcasts/ for recordings of all radio pieces

Colm Donoghue

11-01-2008, 21:30

the 19:15 didn't run, nor did the next train the 20:10
my very pissed off wife is stuck somewhere in the dark on the next train.

chuggachuggachoochoo

11-01-2008, 21:38

The 17:50 Pearse - Dundalk didn't run.

Got the 18:15 Pearse - Drogheda - which was extended to serve Dundalk.

We left Pearse at 18:30...

Train stopped a few times along the way. We were stuck between Rush and lusk and Skerries for an eternity. It was 20:00 when we reached Skerries....

No announcements of stops along the way, no updates from driver.

Think it was 20:30 getting into Drogheda

Rashers

11-01-2008, 21:39

Did anyone catch Barry kenny at the Right Hook at 6.05pm? Seemed to be his normal Thursday slot, inserted into today. Just a coincidence.
Post the podcast link up here if you can find it!
Thanks
;)

chuggachuggachoochoo

11-01-2008, 21:55

We passed an enterprise train stalled near skerries. I would've preferred they didnt rush to put trains back on if the tracks were in a bad way. I've been wondering all the day if the driver of the freight train is okay.

KSW

11-01-2008, 22:04

I've been wondering all the day if the driver of the freight train is okay.

Hopfully he is fine otherwise there would have been something on the news...

Rashers

11-01-2008, 22:08

the 19:15 didn't run, nor did the next train the 20:10
my very pissed off wife is stuck somewhere in the dark on the next train.

Did the 20.33 ex Connolly run? And if so, what were the delays like on that...

Colm Donoghue

11-01-2008, 23:56

Despite Irish Rail's press release, DARTS were not running properly.
no dart went near Malahide between 21:30 and 23:00 when the "delayed" train that left Pears about 20:30 and had been waiting between Portmarnock and Malahide since before my previous post arrived into Malahide.

An Enterprise arrived into Malahide southbound at about 22:50 despite tyhe last northbound train leaving Malahide long before 21:30

there was no train on the single line track section for over one hour according to the ticket guy in Malahide.

ThomasJ

12-01-2008, 00:38

I got to Pearse tonight and noticed that the 22.22 to Dundalk was cancelled according to the board although that was Pearse, it may have left from Connolly. I wonder did anyone risk the 23.20 ex connolly to Drogheda tonight?

chris

12-01-2008, 00:59

Got the 19:00 Connolly-Belfast Central. For once announcements in Connolly were good, and the guy at the information desk accurately managed to tell me when the train would arrive in the station, and that it would only leave 5 mins late.

That's were the good part ends. To Portadown should take 1hr 40mins. It took 4 hours. We were stalled about 100m south of Malahide for well over an hour with no specifics from the driver. When we eventually got moving we hit Dundalk, and then...

"This train terminates here. Please leave the train................There will be another train to take youse to Belfast" This other train took 10 mins to turn up, and was a 3 car CAF set from NI. Was about right for the number of passengers - people maybe dissuaded by media reports?

Say what you want about Translink, but they've got customer service covered. We got an estimated journey time to Belfast Central, genuine apologies (despite it not being NIR's fault). I asked for and got a request stop in Lurgan, and the train was also going to stop in Lisburn. As is usual when these things happen, the conductor asked if any passengers were travelling beyond Belfast, and arranged to have the last train ex belfast to Larne and Bangor kept back.

Now why can't Iarnrod Eireann be like that?

PS My mars bar only cost 50p - I was rather chuffed - that's not bad at all

coffeedrinker

12-01-2008, 08:21

I got the 5.06 from Dun Laoghaire to Drogheda yesterday - I got into Drogheda station at about 8.05. Yes 3 hourss!!! I took this train on the basis that IR said northbound trains were running normally during rush hour -I had presumed short delays - but this was stupid!

Everytime we stopped, we were told we would be moving shortly - until the announcements eventually stopped. 'Moving' in my eyes does not constitute moving about 2 inches in about 15 minutes!

IR would have been better off not running trains - as people on my train were standing for most of the journey.

Also, why couldn't Irish Rail have an agreement in place that Bus Eireann would accept tickets yesterday morning?

packetswitch

12-01-2008, 11:26

As is usual when these things happen, the conductor asked if any passengers were travelling beyond Belfast, and arranged to have the last train ex belfast to Larne and Bangor kept back

Seriously? Wow!

PS My mars bar only cost 50p - I was rather chuffed - that's not bad at all

Especially compared to €1.75 with RailGourment (aka RailGimmeMoney) on IÉ....

philip

12-01-2008, 12:33

Bus eireann buses were not stopping in balbriggan,as They were all full from talking to ppl at the bus,One extra bus had gone through in the space of an hour. I've gone home and given up on the day. have they heard of contingency plans?
You need to have a plan in the first place to then have a contingency plan. IE and the rest of this country has neither.

EVERYTHING just 'happens'. Nothing is planned.

Mark Gleeson

12-01-2008, 13:36

Last night be all accounts was a total mess

What went wrong was IE failed to implement effective pilot working.

Firstly it was clear that it would have been prudent to kill one or two services, e.g. 17:07 and 18:40 ex Connolly to free some space

Secondly given the track layout in Balbriggan and single line working. IE should have operated several trains into Dublin in the afternoon and then suspend everything Dublin bound south of Ballbriggan for the evening rush. That would have allowed northbound to operate on normal signaling and therefore much faster, they persisted in trying to get Enterprise through causing the chaos

Translink are exceptionally decent to deal with. They have an excellent attitude and really seem to care. These guys know how to plan, had 25 odd years of security alerts and so on, so they well practiced and effective in crisis

Everyone last night is entitled to a full refund, fill in the form http://www.irishrail.ie/images/pdfs/Northern%20Eastern%20Discount%20Form.pdf

chris

12-01-2008, 13:40

I took this train on the basis that IR said northbound trains were running normally during rush hour -I had presumed short delays - but this was stupid!

It was exactly the same with me, but you notice how they were crafty enough to say that most trains would run, but declined to say anything about how long it would take.

If only we had Drogheda via Navan as an alternative when stuff gets this messed up. Even NIR maintains a line via Antrim and Knockmore to emergency diversionary standards so trains can avoid anything bad that happens Belfast-Lisburn.

Aphfaneire

12-01-2008, 16:53

Following my origional post, i found out more about it and had to get a lift all the way into dublin. It took over an hour and a half to get from drogheda to bus arás.

When i finally got in i saw an empty commuter train sitting on the ring route bridge waiting to get into connolly, it looked like it must be for drogheda not maynooth as not a soul was on it? We're they running the limited commuters they had to malahide? And why not to rush and lusk? Or was it a maynooth train? This was around 825 or so.

I also avoided coming home via train, and was surprised how Bus Arás was no busier on the outside than normal, where was the fraction of the 7,000 + people who couldnt get in, let alone get out easily?

:confused: IE are the Dumbest company ever, also when in panic yesterday morning McBride station in drogheda was unreachable and The Gaurda station was not informed! With 7,000 + commuters missplaced i think the gaurds should be informed, what a mess!

KSW

12-01-2008, 23:29

Looking at todays evening herald the train where it is, The track cross over seems to me to have something to do with it.

James Shields

13-01-2008, 00:03

I'm just back from Prague (where I enjoyed their excellent tram and metro system), and was off on Friday, so I missed the whole thing.

It seems to me that the whole affair has been very badly managed. Here are some questions that I think deserve answers...

1. The incident happened around 23:00 on Thursday. That gives around 7 hours before the Friday commuter period. What was done in this time?

2. What effort was made to clear the line in these 7 hours? It seems to me that everyone just went to bed and the engineers didn't arrive until Friday morning. If everything possible had been done overnight, could one line have been open in time for the morning rush?

3. What effort was made to arrange alternative transport, and when did these efforts begin? There must be a lot of buses available around the country, even allowing for school runs, etc. If a concerted effort had been made as soon as it had been known the train service would be severely affected, calling emergency contact numbers for bus operators around the island (north and south), a sizeable bus fleet could have assembled.

4. Why were IE tickets not accepted on bus routes running parallel to the affected rail services? Passengers may be able to claim refunds on their season tickets, but how about allowing them to claim the cost of their alternative travel?

5. What effort was made to inform passengers of the situation? Garda stations should certainly have been informed. Radio stations obviously had some information, but was it enough for people to know what was going on? Was there an information line people could call? Was there information about alternatives available?

6. Trains could almost certainly have been run between Drogheda and Balbriggan, possibly Skerries. Why wasn't this done?

7. There were at least two railcar sets south of Skerries overnight. Why weren't these used to run a limited service between Rush and Lusk and Pearse?

8. Why was Friday evening a complete mess, with journeys that normally take an hour taking 3-4 hours? For many people this was worse than the morning disruption.

9. Why was information about which services would run on Friday evening so sketchy? Why not publish a list of which trains would be running, and if delays to the journey time were expected, how long those delays might be? Was there a plan, or were they just playing it by ear?

10. Is it acceptable tat when there's a problem, commuters are asked to "make alternative arrangements?" They are in effect saying "we can't be bothered, so screw you, you're on your own." Should IE not have standing contingency plans in place for a range of scenarios such as this?

11. What training do IE staff and managers receive for situations such as this? Shouldn't they have regular simulations and exercises to prepare them for dealing with unexpected situations. Why does everything seem to fall apart when there's the slightest problem?

12. What steps will be taken to ensure that this cannot happen again? More importantly, what steps are being taken to ensure that next time an unexpected situation arises, it's dealt with in a more considerate (to the customer) manner.

13. Finally (until I think of something else), an investigation is taking place into this incident. Will the findings of this investigation be made public?

Aphfaneire

13-01-2008, 00:51

Looking at todays evening herald the train where it is, The track cross over seems to me to have something to do with it.

Is this picture of the train crash available online? If so can someone post it?

Why is it that there hasnt been a picture of it all over the news?
More than 7,000 people missplaced and services disrupted and no one sends a helicopter out to take pictures? Anywhere else in the world, and especially Britain they would. Hell isnt there that myth that the helicopter ownership in ireland is now at the same level as car ownership in the 40's?

Colm Donoghue

13-01-2008, 01:01

We( me and mrs.) had dealings with 3 different Ie people last night. I rang Connolly to find out what was going on. the woman on the phone had some canned speel but didn't know the 19:15 was cancelled, despite her list of "these trains were cancelled." this was at 21:20. She was polite and eventually admitted there was a lot of confusion and she also admitted the press release on Irish rail's website wasn't the clearest.....

I went to Malahide to collect my wife who was about a km south of malahide on a train that left Pearse after half past eight, after arriving there just after seven
The ticket guy there was also sheepish and polite and readily admitted that he didn't have a clue what was going on, that the clowns running the circus didn't know what was going on, and that the fact these clowns were lying to him and he was telling us what they said was making him look like an awful eejit.
He also showed me that there was NO train at all on the single line section for almost an hour on the screen in the ticket office.
He was also polite, in a genuine way that most Irish rail employees just don't appear to bring to work.

but the nicest guy of the night was the driver of the train my wife was on who kept everyone informed of any news he got, had the door to the cab open to go out to tell passengers the story from the horses mouth and also let an upset and heavily pregnant woman into the cab to let her get fresh air from the open window.

We're fairly quick to criticise the poor staff in Irish rail so when all three staff you deal with on one night are polite and friendly, it should be noted.

Rashers

13-01-2008, 09:10

We're fairly quick to criticise the poor staff in Irish rail so when all three staff you deal with on one night are polite and friendly, it should be noted.

I agree. However, there seems to be, and always has been IMO, huge issues with the management of customer service types issues within Irish Rail. I would be first to blame the drivers and station staff for leaving us without information during service delays.
However, I have a feeling the real issue might be within CTC, who simply tell no one what is happening. I complained a few years ago to the Northern Suburban line office about why CTC refuse to make any platform announcements. My complaint was noted. Nothing changed. No one in CTC seems to care, and Irish Rail senior management have absolutely no interest in dealing with this basic issue. If they did care, they would have sorted it by now. Rant over!:mad:

Mark Gleeson

13-01-2008, 11:10

The cause of the derailment was a broken axle, which broke about 300m before the set of points, points just diverted the train more off the track

Most staff are quite decent, there are all the same a high number of bad apples in Irish Rail. The chaos on Friday was mainly as a result of poor management

IE really don't have any class of plan for these situation, no notice up in Pearse on Saturday about the situation for instance. Crew in Skerries, being old school have a rather worn blackboard which they can quickly place a notice. London Underground have equipped every station with a white board and markers, ultra low tech but very very effective

The Rail Incident Investigation Unit will certainly be doing an investigation. Looking at the situation it doesn't look like the Northbound track was actually physically blocked at any stage, the whole site was probably closed pending the Rail Incident Investigation Unit crew visiting and documenting the situation. IE then ran a test train through which fitted with only a few inches (instead of the usual foot plus gap). IE had nothing on site to move a 75 ton wagon

Would a train going the opposite direction have struck the derailed train? doubtful.

James Shields

13-01-2008, 11:47

Most staff are quite decent, there are all the same a high number of bad apples in Irish Rail. The chaos on Friday was mainly as a result of poor management

Agreed. If the staff have no information about the problem, there's not a lot they can do to help. The cause of the problem may have been out of IE's control, but IE seem to have washed their hands and abandoned the situation to resolve itself, which it obviously wasn't going to do.

IE really don't have any class of plan for these situation, no notice up in Pearse on Saturday about the situation for instance. Crew in Skerries, being old school have a rather worn blackboard which they can quickly place a notice. London Underground have equipped every station with a white board and markers, ultra low tech but very very effective

They obviously can't have a plan for every situation that can arise, but IE management and staff should be trained in how to deal with crisis situations in general. It's a simple case of sitting down and looking at the options and making the best out of the situation. An hour a month where they sit around the table and someone presents a scenario and everyone works through the options would do wonders.

The Rail Incident Investigation Unit will certainly be doing an investigation. Looking at the situation it doesn't look like the Northbound track was actually physically blocked at any stage, the whole site was probably closed pending the Rail Incident Investigation Unit crew visiting and documenting the situation. IE then ran a test train through which fitted with only a few inches (instead of the usual foot plus gap). IE had nothing on site to move a 75 ton wagon

Okay, I can see that they don't want to move anything until the RIIU have had a look, but when were they notified? It is vital these people can be on call 24/7 so that a decision can be made at the earliest possible point as to whether the line can be reopened. So a few people lose a few hours sleep. It's better than abandoning 7000 commuters.

Also, could the crane have been mobilised on Thursday night instead of Friday night? Could the crane operators have been woken and told, "okay, we want you guys suited and ready in case we can shift stuff tonight," and be on standby so that they could move in if the safety guys gave the okay?

Obviously we're not advocating that IE do anything that would be unsafe. However they seem to have abandoned the situation without even assessing it fully.

Would a train going the opposite direction have struck the derailed train? doubtful.

Obviously you want to make sure that the answer is "certainly not" rather than doubtful, but the evidence seems to suggest that nothing had been moved when trains ran on Friday afternoon, so it should have been possible to run them on Friday morning if the situation had been properly assessed by then.

Mark Hennessy

13-01-2008, 13:37

I also avoided coming home via train, and was surprised how Bus Arás was no busier on the outside than normal, where was the fraction of the 7,000 + people who couldnt get in, let alone get out easily?

Traffic was nuts on Dorset st. going north on Fri evening around 7, nothing was moving anywhere quickly at all.

Mark Gleeson

13-01-2008, 15:09

The Rail Incident Investigation Unit is part of the RSC and are on call 24 hours day

They should have got a call within an hour of the incident taking place, obviously it depends where the duty inspector is relative to the site before they get there. You cant do much in the pitch black dark. Everything must be recorded

IE staff re-railed the train without recourse to a crane

The photos from about 11am on Fri show the northbound track clear and undamaged

Its much easier operate north rather than south, so if you think things where bad Friday evening if they had tried that on Friday morning it would have been worse and you could walk faster

Colm Donoghue

13-01-2008, 21:10

Travel Alerts

NORTHERN LINE & BELFAST LINE: FULL SERVICE TO OPERATE MONDAY 14TH JANUARY by Corporate Communications

Update: Sunday 13th January 2008 - 19.45hrs

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that full services will operate on the Northern line commuter service and on the Dublin-Belfast service on Monday 14th January, following disruption caused by Thursday evening's derailment of a freight train near Skerries.

All scheduled services will operate, although slight delays (estimated 5 minutes) may result, as there is a 25mph speed restriction in the immediate vicinity of the area of the derailment.

Dublin-Drogheda/Dundalk commuter services remain suspended this evening (Sunday 13th January).

Colm Donoghue

13-01-2008, 21:17

Could a dedicated shuttle not have run R&L to Malahide on friday morning and
from Skerries or Balbriggan to Malahide on friday night, with a shuttle running wrong way from malahide to R&L?

Or even get a double decker bus to take the 90 or so people on the enterprise from balbriggan to Dublin and let the 3 trains stuck south of malahide go.

Who owns the wagons? the zinc miners or Irish Rail?

Why were there no services from Dundalk to Balbriggan over the weekend?

Mark Gleeson

13-01-2008, 21:25

So still no trains but the line is open? Talk about being lazy

Boys up north now reporting Enterprise is running as normal, so its 19:00 Belfast Dublin will run to Dublin

A full service could have been provided Dundalk - Balbriggan over the weekend, it was not

Signaling arrangements make Malahide Rush and Lusk very difficult, that said on Friday IE had plenty of time to position a train in Rush for the morning. Just one train would have saved a huge amount of pain

Tara Mines own the wagons, though they are operated and maintained by Irish Rail

chuggachuggachoochoo

14-01-2008, 08:23

6:04 Train didn't leave Drogheda until after 6:15 today.

However, I got the 6:30 train which ran fine, reached balbriggan in a record 15 mins, and was at connolly for the usual time of 7:30. Slight slowdown after skerries but nothing close to Friday's speeds.

tigger1962

14-01-2008, 08:34

not related I suppose but the enterprise is stopped between Dunleer and Drogheda... An announcement just made stated that there was a problem with the engine!! We've been stopped here 8 minutes so far!

dowlingm

14-01-2008, 11:38

A 12 mile single section? Where's that - from Drogheda to Dunleer?

Mark Gleeson

14-01-2008, 11:45

Single line section was from the Quarry Malahide to Ballbriggan, about 13 miles. The freight train derailed at a set of points which resulted in the single line working being over several miles more than you would expect

All Malahide DART services where terminated at Howth Junction as a result. Had IE suspended all southbound services normal service could have been provided northbound on Friday evening with slight delays

ThomasJ

14-01-2008, 12:04

All Malahide DART services where terminated at Howth Junction as a result.

Were Malahide passengers informed of this? Did the IE PR on Friday not say DART services were not affected?

Mark Gleeson

14-01-2008, 12:31

It did say that, only for Barry Kenny to admit on live radio that they had to run Malahide DART's to Howth Junc only, I have it recorded

ThomasJ

14-01-2008, 14:49

I was in Pearse Station last Friday and the Platform Information Screens (PIS) displaying in order last DARTs from Pearse followed by DARTs delayed by 10 minutes due to signal problems near sandymount followed by news that there would be no northern trains over the weekend, talk about priority!!!

There was no mention of what was happening that night on the Northern line despite the 22.22 being cancelled and there was no mention of malahide DARTs despite there being no Malahide DARTs.

No wonder people hadn't a clue what was going on.

dave wilson

14-01-2008, 17:40

James Shields

14-01-2008, 20:13

There seem to have been a number of trains running late this morning, but the delays seem to have been happening at the Drogheda/Dundalk end rather than the 25mph section where the incident occurred. I was on the 7:27 which left Drogheda at 7:33 (in fairness, if it had been on time I'd have been on the 7:41). It slowed down south of Skerries, then sped off to Rush and Lusk. Arrived in Connolly about 8:35, and the driver apologised for the late running.

James Shields

14-01-2008, 20:18

It did say that, only for Barry Kenny to admit on live radio that they had to run Malahide DART's to Howth Junc only, I have it recorded

That seems totally daft. The problem was nowhere near Malahide. Was there any reason why DARTs couldn't run between HJ and Malahide?

Incidently, I was thinking earlier that since most of the railcars were trapped on the wrong side of Skerries, the sensible thing to would have been to use the available railcars to run a shuttle service between Rush & Lusk and Malahide, and let passengers change to the DART for the trip into town.

Mark Gleeson

14-01-2008, 20:47

The signalling arrangements at Malahide are such that it is impossible for a train arriving on the wrong track from Donabate to access the normal southbound platform and therefore must cross back at the quarry

Pilot working is always between two specified sets of points making it impossible for a DART to enter Malahide without the pilot man as the north to south bound crossover is beyond the trailing one needed to cross the Drogheda line trains back over

IE well knew this in advance, but could have avoided the whole issue if they had not run any southbound trains in the rush hour

Derek Wheeler

15-01-2008, 00:00

A most unfortunate incident. I had a sneaky feeling that when I heard about it on Thursday night, there might be problems for morning rush hour on Friday.

For different reasons, this is the second time in a few months that the northside of Dublin has been reduced to a mess. The first time was of course, the Dublin Bus strike at Harristown. Both incidents highlighted the problems when something goes wrong. Buses can't cope and the roads end up with miles of tailbacks. It's situations like this that yet again bring us back to an overall transport authority for Dublin. It is now imperative that a DTA be given powers in the first instance to plan infrastructure and secondly, to implement emergency plans, when something goes wrong. Coordination is the word that leaps to mind.

The breakdown in communication at 11pm on Thursday night is rediculous. The breakdown on Friday morning is unforgiveable. Bus Eireann, should have accepted rail tickets. Extra buses should have been arranged. The port tunnel should have been opened to all traffic free of charge. The Gardai should have been notified and put a "mini operation freeflow" in place.

Just look at the M50. When an accident occurs during rush hour, large parts of the city grind to a halt. This type of thing cannot be allowed to continue. We are struggling with infrastructure. We are struggling with services. Who the f**k is in charge? I'll tell you. Absolutely nobody! The whole thing is a mess and despite investment, the lack of proper "transport management" for the greater Dublin region will consign us to a hell that we cannot even begin to imagine. Every week it gets worse in some capacity.

Lads and lassies, I never claim to have all the answers, but until such time that our Government actually wake up and realise that commuters need a management body in place to coordinate absolutely everything, we will continue to p*ss into the wind of the public transport and congested road, abyss, that is the reality of Dublin.

The DTA. Nearly 30 years on the proposal list and still not a reality. Broken axles, limited services, wrong road running on the railway etc etc means nothing because there is no plan in place. There is nobody in charge. Its a quagmire of "indie" operators under state control, while nobody actually sits in the control room.

Mark Hennessy

15-01-2008, 10:52

We are struggling with services. Who the f**k is in charge? I'll tell you. Absolutely nobody! The whole thing is a mess and despite investment, the lack of proper "transport management" for the greater Dublin region will consign us to a hell that we cannot even begin to imagine. Every week it gets worse in some capacity.

Thats the sad truth, can you imagine how we would cope in one day if say a major accident blocked the M50 and the Dart went off at the same time?

I'll bet a contingency plan doesn't exist because there is no plan in the first place.

CSL

15-01-2008, 11:58

Why did DB accept tickets and Bus Eireann not ? Is there some bunfight going on ?

The DTA should be independent of RPA, IE and all the operators. Yet the RPA will morph into it. Therefore no-one will trust it since all it wants to do is build trams and metros.

Mark Gleeson

15-01-2008, 12:03

Irish Rail have a long standing agreement with Dublin Bus, goes back to the fact Dublin commuter and bus where more or less managed by the same person back in the old days of CIE

Bus Eireann don't have such an arrangement, Irish Rail appeared to get one in place but since Bus Eireann rely heavily on hired in contractors not everyone was in the loop and the don't seem to have a radio system like Dublin Bus to instruct drivers of the situation

markpb

15-01-2008, 12:05

Why did DB accept tickets and Bus Eireann not ? Is there some bunfight going on ?

Apparently DB and IR have a standing arrangement but BE and IR do not so it had to be arranged that morning. It used to be done on an ad-hoc basis but now they have to agree on a sum of money to be paid to BE/DB in return for accepting IR tickets.

Aphfaneire

16-01-2008, 19:53

Thats the sad truth, can you imagine how we would cope in one day if say a major accident blocked the M50 and the Dart went off at the same time?

I'll bet a contingency plan doesn't exist because there is no plan in the first place.

Possibilities such as a terrorist attack, a catostrophic power failure or even a sevre solar flare like the one that hit Canada in the 80's. If any dissaster were to happen the city would quite litterally grind to a halt.

Damn, if only the allies or the germans invaded us in the emergency, maybe things would be a bit more efficient, hopefully a german influence could have fixed this country:rolleyes:

Mark Hennessy

16-01-2008, 20:04

The port tunnel should have been opened to all traffic free of charge.

This morning due to a glitch in the computer systems all traffic through the Port Tunnel was toll free.

Last Friday with a major glitch in a busy rail line along the same corridor, the Port Tunnel lay mostly idle.

Derek Wheeler

16-01-2008, 23:04

This morning due to a glitch in the computer systems all traffic through the Port Tunnel was toll free.

Last Friday with a major glitch in a busy rail line along the same corridor, the Port Tunnel lay mostly idle.

That waste of tax payers money will only be free for non bus/hgv when there is absolutely no way of collecting cash. Funniliy enough, it wasnt publicised very much and by all accounts that I heard, was empty.

Lets look at the 2 most recent big transport investments in Dublin. Luas and the Port Tunnel.

Luas - behind schedule and not connected. Don't forget that much time and money was wasted debating the whole metro upgrade and eventually building the green line to metro spec. But hang on, we have now decided that we won't really be upgrading it to metro after all!!

Port Tunnel - Hmmm... In my opinion, a vast amount of money on a road project, in a car dependent city, that penalises cars very heavily,for using it. Add to that the HGV debacle on the M50 and need I say more?

But my initial point about a contingency plan is relevent. Mark H has developed it further by suggesting the calamity that would ensue if both the M50 and DART network shut down. It doesn't bare thinking about from our perspective, but wouldn't it be nice if there was actually someone somewhere doing just that?