Should Connolly be the terminating station for Rosslare services? [Archive]

Colm R

19-12-2007, 16:33

I was waiting in Pearse recently and was thinking about this. <I was waiting a long time>

There has to be an argument to terminating "Intercity Train" in Pearse coming from Rosslare, rather than sending them onto Connolly and Maynooth.

Yes, it may require more trains, but surely having routes run independent of each other makes since. Pearse certainly has the room, that old platform beside the northbound platform, and a further area, currently used as a staff car park, which could be used to hold trains without interfering with the cross city Dart.

Consequently, services to the North and Northwest should leave by Connolly.

Is there any sense to what I am talking about, or is total BS.

Precedent in London is clear. Each of the major stations serves lines on their direction out of London. Is there a culture in Ireland ("Dublin") that people don't want to transfer and will pick their place of residence according to where they work so preventing the need to transfer?

shweeney

19-12-2007, 16:49

i have no problem with them going on to maynooth or drogheda - makes sense not to block up a running platform in Connolly, though there is also plenty of holding space north of connolly where they could wait.

Stopping in Pearse isn't great, there's already 2 mainline stations in what is actually quite a small city - adding another does nothing for integrated transport and the transferring passengers would end up on the Dart anyway.

CSL

19-12-2007, 18:05

Where do the trains come from then to run the outward services from Connolly that would have run with the train's you've just terminated in Pearse ?

Doing it the existing way needs 1 set.

Doing it the other way requires 2 sets

or am I mad as a loon ?

If we assume you have enough sets the only advantage is a reduction on paths required through tara and across the river

sean

19-12-2007, 20:40

Should Connolly station be the terminating station for Rosslare services?
No. IMO Sligo and Longford should.

Think about this - not only are there track-path advantages running through Dublin City Centre on merged Sligo and Rosslare lines, (that being less conflict with DARTs) but users on both lines would have more destination choices, with Sligo users having direct trains to Tara St. and Pearse, while Rosslare users could get direct interchange with the Metro at Drumcondra.

If some vision and lateral thinking had been applied to the Midland line, an interchange could have been built there and Maynooth-Bray DART, Longford-Arklow Commuter and Sligo-Rosslare Intercity could have all gone down the Midland line and into the suburban station at Connolly, this could have opened boodles of track paths to bring Kildare Commuter and Heuston-based Intercity trains into Connolly sheds, which would have had its own advantages. But alas, the Metro was built in such a way that an interchange with the Midland Line was impossible and the RPA didn't look at it because IE made their disinterest in that line very clear :(

But even without the Midland Line, matched, through running trains make a certain degree of sense.

Maynooth and Drogheda do not make sense as terminii for Rosslare service because they're Commuter destinations (the former soon to be DART) while Connolly and Sligo are Intercity terminii.

KSW

19-12-2007, 20:48

Users on both lines would have more destination choices, with Sligo users having direct trains to Tara St. and Pearse, while Rosslare users could get direct interchange with the Metro at Drumcondra.

Maynooth-Bray DART, Longford-Gorey Commuter and Sligo-Rosslare Intercity could have all gone down the Midland line and into the suburban station at Connolly, this could have opened boodles of track paths to bring Kildare Commuter and Heuston-based Intercity trains into Connolly sheds,

Maynooth and Drogheda do not make sense as terminii for Rosslare service.

I Like where your coming from:)

Edward Ryan

19-12-2007, 21:02

KSW

19-12-2007, 21:29

Interesting topic. I agree that all Rosslare services should stop and start from one of the city centre stations. These trains could be taken in for cleaning and servicing then returned to the platform 10min before departure.

However I do see the value of operating the Gorey/Enniscorthy services to and from Maynooth as I know there are a number of students commuting to and from collage in Maynooth and the service is really usefull for them.

The 1740 Rosslare to Drogheda and 0630 Drogheda to Rosslare operate more or less to get the trains to servicing at Drogheda depot. It makes more sense than stopping the train in Dublin then run it empty to the depot.

Ed

10mins would be good for me but I would perfer 20mins but 10 I'II settle for:cool: .
Gorey/Enniscorthy Commuter services yes they are fine as they are its InterCity, I think should terminate at Connolly.
The 17:40 Rosslare/Drogheda they are Commuter Railcars so they are fine going to Drogheda for service. Hence why does the 20:05 Enniscorthy/Dublin just go to Conolly at not also to Drogheda Depot. But when the new 22000 trains come into action then they should go no futher than Connolly unless of course its the last service from Rosslare then it may go to where-ever they go for servicing.

KSW

19-12-2007, 23:34

Well I would love it.
It would greatly increase the chances of getting a seat instead of standing the whole way home.

I think Rosslare-Dublin Connolly should'nt change, Connolly is central and has the Dart, Enterprise, No 90 bus to Hueston, InterCity to Sligo its more a terminus for Rosslare than Pearse Station.

Can I ask everyone do you like the current stops at Tara Street ,Pearse & Dun Laoghaire from Connolly and all Rosslare services including Sundays?

Pierce

20-12-2007, 01:53

Interesting question there KeithStephen,I would love to see all Rosslare trains terminate at Connolly and not Dublin Pearse. 20minutes for the train to be standing at the platform is'nt exactly asking for much. Could the train wait at Connolly for 20m's. I have to say I dont like the train stopping at the stations you've mentioned because I like seeing the train passing Tara and Pearse and all stations to Bray knowing your on an Intercity express train.

comcor

20-12-2007, 12:58

I can't see the benefit of terminating Rosslare services in Pearse. For the passengers who want to travel onto Dundalk, Sligo or Belfast, you're adding extra complication and it wouldn't make all that much difference to DART running.

I'd agree with the idea of running them through Dublin completely, preferably on to Sligo or Dundalk.

ThomasJ

20-12-2007, 13:08

20minutes for the train to be standing at the platform is'nt exactly asking for much. Could the train wait at Connolly for 20m's..

20 minutes of DARTS and Commuters using just 2 platforms is alot. It causes quite a bit of disruption.

Bearing in mind you are cancelling a busy service by curtailing the service to Connolly do you allocate the commuter rolling stock that has been taken off the rosslare line and allocate it to a maynooth service thereby wasting the stock that has become surplus?

KSW

20-12-2007, 21:17

I can't see the benefit of terminating Rosslare services in Pearse.

I can't for the love of God either, It makes no sense.
Connolly has and hopefully will always be the terminating station for Rosslare Services.

Anyone else even considered why IE are stopping all Rosslare services at Tara, Pearse & Dun Laoghaire maybe they are planning this in advance.....:( :eek: :confused: :o :mad:

Colm Moore

20-12-2007, 23:23

Anyone else even considered why IE are stopping all Rosslare services at Tara, Pearse & Dun Laoghaire They stop at those stations because they are popular stations with connections, e.g. 7, 46A and ferries at Dun Laoghaire. There is also likely to be a DART in front of them.

KSW

20-12-2007, 23:37

They stop at those stations because they are popular stations with connections, e.g. 7, 46A and ferries at Dun Laoghaire. There is also likely to be a DART in front of them.

I know all this, I just wanted to see if people would also disagree with those stops but I guess its not turning out that way (haha;) )

I dont think there will ever be a Bray/Connolly direct for Rosslare ever again:( :( :(

James Shields

22-12-2007, 01:18

Would you like them to extend the tracks up your front garden to save you the walk from the station?

Seriously, the purpose of the railway is to carry as many people as possible, and cutting out intermediate stops denies a proportion of the users from accessing the service. Unless there are enough Roslare passengers to fill the train on their own, you need the passengers for intermediate stops to keep the service viable.

Combining a Roslare service with a Maynooth/Longford/Sligo service saves a critical trackpath over the loop bridge, as one service is emptying as the other is filling up. I haven't experience of this, but I would expect that most passengers from the Maynooth leg will have alighted by Pearse, so even if you don't get a seat at Connolly, if you stand somewhere sensible you should be seated by Pearse.

And if you are left standing from time to time, try to remember the positive side - it means your line is growing and you can expect a greater range of services in the future.

ThomasJ

22-12-2007, 01:50

Good point James re. combining rosslare and maynooth services!

passenger numbers on those rosslare europort and gorey trains have more than doubled as a result of running to and from maynooth. and dundalk. surely that can only be a good thing for the worst performing line on the railway network?

I remember years ago when there was a 7.30 clonsilla to rosslare europort train (was an mk2 set) that was always crammed as far as connolly and i actually remember cold winter mornings that less than ten passengers would get on at connolly.... how times have changed !

KSW

22-12-2007, 02:01

passenger numbers on those rosslare europort and gorey trains have more than doubled as a result of running to and from maynooth. and dundalk.

Can you proof this? When I see the Maynooth train coming into P5 most of the passengers have got off then the Rosslare passengers crowd the train most people still start there journey at Connolly. Arriving into Pearse not so much Tara St there is more passengers for the line. Passengers travelling on the Rosslare line know that Connolly is best to get a seat than arriving into Pearse with the coach full. I agree Thank God the line has seen an increase etc....

ThomasJ

22-12-2007, 02:10

Sorry Keith all I am saying is because the train "double-jobs" at a busy peak hour time on the maynooth both to there and back its carrying alot more passengers than if it was to run to and from connolly.

I do agree with you keith that it the evening gorey and rosslare services are busy services but is taken ie putting on 4 carriage 29000 sets to show me that when that happens it looks like a very crammed service and that they should be six-car at all times.

KSW

22-12-2007, 02:11

Would you like them to extend the tracks up your front garden to save you the walk from the station?
As one service is emptying as the other is filling up. I haven't experience of this, but I would expect that most passengers from the Maynooth leg will have alighted by Pearse, so even if you don't get a seat at Connolly, if you stand somewhere sensible you should be seated by Pearse..

That would'nt work:p ....Believe me I'm far from lazy.
One service emptys while the other service fills with passengers fair enough but as you've said you dont have experenice of this. Its easy writing stand somewhere sensible by Pearse etc, But its a completely different situation when you see your train approaching the platform.........
I think people are starting to go to Connolly in order to try there best to get a seat rather than Pearse not so much Tara St.
All I'm saying is it was easier when the Rosslare train was standing at the platform in good time of its departure............

ThomasJ

22-12-2007, 02:19

That would'nt work:p ....Believe me I'm far from lazy.
One service emptys while the other service fills with passengers fair enough but as you've said you dont have experenice of this. Its easy writing stand somewhere sensible by Pearse etc, But its a completely different situation when you see your train approaching the platform.........
I think people are starting to go to Connolly in order to try there best to get a seat rather than Pearse not so much Tara St.
All I'm saying is it was easier when the Rosslare train was standing at the platform in good time of its departure............

But keith having your train sitting at platform 5 for 10-20 minutes and as a result restricting the dart platforms of connolly to 2 is not a great resolution as the 6:00-7:00 is busy for all services. more than twenty services run though just those three platforms between 6 and 7 so restricting them to 2 is bound to cause disruption

KSW

22-12-2007, 02:19

Sorry Keith all I am saying is because the train "double-jobs" at a busy peak hour time on the maynooth both to there and back its carrying alot more passengers than if it was to run to and from connolly

I know ThomasJ but Aaahhhh - Only another year until this will be addressed for Rosslare passengers. I think knowing to the fact that IE are short of Commuter Railcars and are using Rosslare services to Maynooth to also cover the Rosslare line but the sooner the new 22000 trains come on the better for all........

ThomasJ

22-12-2007, 02:23

I know ThomasJ but Aaahhhh - Only another year until this will be addressed for Rosslare passengers. I think knowing to the fact that IE are short of Commuter Railcars and are using Rosslare services to Maynooth to also cover the Rosslare line but the sooner the new 22000 trains come on the better for all........

But keith Rosslare trains opeated on the Maynooth as mk2s before the 29ks even arrived. The Rosslare train has benefitted both dundalk and maynooth passengers for over 5 years.

ThomasJ

22-12-2007, 02:27

Although the 2700s the 2800s and the 29ks should have never gone on the Rosslare line, I believed that since they first put the 2700s on the Rosslare train. But I still do believe that if you can stretch your limited reources a bit do so, and the 06.00 rosslare to sligo proves that?

KSW

22-12-2007, 02:28

Im from New York but I know its been over 5yrs since the introduction of the 2700 trains. I moved to Wexford-Gorey 8yrs ago, I can remember when the 2700's were introduced back in April of 2004 But I'm interested in this line I dont know why I think it needs help regarding the above conversations. Anyway I'm going to look into that.
Thanks for replys

Off Topic but is there anyway I could get a timetable for Rosslare to Dublin from 2005,2004 and backwards

sean

22-12-2007, 02:53

I can't for the love of God either, It makes no sense.
Connolly has and hopefully will always be the terminating station for Rosslare Services.

Anyone else even considered why IE are stopping all Rosslare services at Tara, Pearse & Dun Laoghaire maybe they are planning this in advance.....:( :eek: :confused: :o :mad:

Maybe because Pearse is a major City Centre station that interests a lot of Rosslare passengers (and will be an Interconector interchange) and Tara St. is the closest station to O'Connell Bridge?

Jeepers, I'd LOVE if the Sligo and Longford trains stopped at those stations.

James Shields

22-12-2007, 10:26

My point was that there are a limited number of slots over the loop bridge, so running Maynooth to Roslare (for example) makes more efficient use of those slots (and for that matter, makes better use of trains since they aren't hanging around for 20 mins). If they were to stop doing it, they would have to run less trains. Having said that, the loop line is not being used to its full potential. I also think it would be better if the service was a new Intercity DMU running Longford to Roslare.

I got the impression you were getting on at Connolly, but it sounds like you're joining it at Pearse. I'm not surprised most of the seats are taken by Pearse, but the fact there are still Maynooth passengers getting off at that point means that you stand a chance of getting a seat. I'd guess there are probably a few Maynooth to Dun Laoghaire passengers, again giving you a chance of nabbing a seat mid way through the journey.

I agree there are probably a lot of passengers who would get on at Pearse but go over to Connolly to get a seat. I know there are a lot of people doing the reverse for the Maynooth and Drogheda trains too. The new footbridge makes this a lot easier on foot, but I'm sure there are also people who arrive early and take a DART over to the other station.

I wasn't saying that passengers from Maynooth significantly increase the numbers on the Roslare service. My point was that cutting out some of the stops south of Pearse would make the service less viable. I may have goofed here, thinking you were going to Roslare and looking for an almost non-stop service. I would think the majority of passengers using the service are for stops between Bray and Gorey, and the leg south of Gorey is fairly sparsely populated.

KSW

22-12-2007, 11:34

If they were to stop doing it, they would have to run less trains. Having said that, the loop line is not being used to its full potential.

I also think it would be better if the service was a new Intercity DMU running Longford to Roslare.

I got the impression you were getting on at Connolly, but it sounds like you're joining it at Pearse.

I'd guess there are probably a few Maynooth to Dun Laoghaire passengers.

My point was that cutting out some of the stops south of Pearse would make the service less viable. thinking you were going to Roslare and looking for an almost non-stop service.

I can completely understand why the present Gorey/Enniscorthy services orignates from Maynooth. I would be 100% with IE if they considered working Sligo/Dublin/Wexford for passengers from the Sligo side to continue on to Pearse or Dun Laoghaire or even Bray. Vise a versa for Rosslare users to Maynooth/Longford/Sligo.

My argument regards the Rosslare service is Maynooth it is not a terminus station. The present Rosslare/Maynooth operated since the introduction of the 2700 class Commuter trains, I want to ask if the 071's with the Mark II coaches were not taken from the line would IE have operated Rosslare/Maynooth with these 071's I dont think so.. I know when the Rosslare train hits Bray from Rosslare it then operates as Commuter and not the InterCity side of things. When the new 22000 trains come on want will the situation be then surly they cant keep going to Maynooth?
I board either at Connolly or Pearse but mostly Connolly....

CSL

22-12-2007, 16:05

What about starting the Rosslare service at Bray with a MK2 rake and using the 29ks as extra shuttles [ Dart fillers ] only Maynooth-Bray ? or even

saves a loop line path

ThomasJ

31-12-2007, 18:02

The present Rosslare/Maynooth operated since the introduction of the 2700 class Commuter trains, I want to ask if the 071's with the Mark II coaches were not taken from the line would IE have operated Rosslare/Maynooth with these 071's I dont think so.. ...

http://brian-grey.fotopic.net/p14051550.html

[ps sorry i shouldn't have posted the link just pointing out this did happen]

And in fact was the normality for about 3 years I think, MarkH you might be able to help us out here but the 8.00am Connolly-Rosslare service started In Maynooth around 7.15am every morning, I took it nearly every morning and it was always MK2 operated. This ended once the rosslare service switched to 2700 railcars coupled with the opening of the railcar depot in Drogheda and the morning Rosslare service then started in Dundalk.