Parking wars in Maynooth.

[John J]

I'm sure P11 personnel are aware of the ongoing issue regarding shortage of parking spaces at Maynooth train station. The car park provides 150 spaces at a rough estimate and is full by 7.15am each morning.
The overflow ends up in a housing estate near to the station - this being the only area with free parking within a reasonable walking distance.

I have been forced to park in that particular estate 6 out of the 9 last days, having attempted to find space in the IE car park to no avail.
After a particularly bad day at work today I arrived back to my car to provide two pages of rather threatening literature under my wiper blade (text reproduced in full below).
This was also placed on several other cars.

This leaves me in quite a quandary.
I live a considerable distance from the train station and work demands force me to drive to Maynooth every day due to IE's failure to provide decent service levels beyond Maynooth.
Niether walking or cycling are particularly feasible.

There doesn't seem to be any work underway to provide extra capacity at Maynooth station.
Are P11 aware of any such work being planned?
What do you suggest I and other commuters do in the meantime?
Will IE be prepared to pay fines I may incur as a result of not being able to park when I wish to use their services, despite paying for an annual ticket?

I cannot afford to rent a parking space as train fares, petrol and tolls already cost me upwards of €100 a week.

I understand the views of the residents of that particular housing estate and have sympathy for them. However can they not also have some understanding for the catch-22 situation that Maynooth commuters are in?

The hugely positive effect that the train station has on rental and sale values is perhaps not fully appreciated - but that's another story.

It's a bit of a joke that on the one hand the authorities are actively encouraging public transport and on the other, the garda siochana, a government body, are persecuting those attempting to use it?

Any thoughts?

PAGE 1
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NO PARKING
PRIVATE ESTATE
Details of Cars fined by gardai recently
02 DL 5177 GARDA PARKING FINE
00 LD 1643 GARDA PARKING FINE
95 KE 3719 GARDA PARKING FINE
96 MH 2486 GARDA PARKING FINE
05 D 727 GARDA PARKING FINE
00 D 18024 GARDA PARKING FINE
98 D 6668 GARDA PARKING FINE
01 TS 2664 GARDA PARKING FINE
Further parking could result in clamping/towing and or garda fine.
YOUR CAR NUMBER HAS BEEN NOTED

PAGE 2
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YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE THAT THE HOUSE DIRECTLY OPPOSITE THIS PARKING SPACE IS A RESIDENTIAL HOME FOR MILDLY HANDI-CAPPED PEOPLE. THIS SPACE IS FREQUENTLY REQUIRED FOR THEIR BUS/AMBULANCE TO BE TURNED. SPACE ALSO REQUIRED FOR STAFF AND DOCTOR.
CARS HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY THE POLICE.
THEY DO HAVE VISITORS AS DO THE REST OF THE RESIDENTS - BUT YOU HAVE LEFT THEM NO SPACE TO PARK. WE HAVE 14/18 CARS IN THIS CUL-DE-SAC OF OUR OWN. PEOPLE ON SHIFT WORK ETC. they come off irregular shifts and find there is nowhere for them to park.
We are not an extension of the railway car park.
YOUR NUMBER HAS BEEN NOTED. PLEASE DO NOT PARK IN THIS PRIVATE ESTATE AGAIN.

NOTE
* There is no signage indicating a residential home in the area - if I were aware of such, I would most certainly not park nearby.

[Mark Gleeson]

The Maynooth car park is boxed in by the canal and local houses making any extension difficult. Its a double edged sword if it was extended (and we are aware of no plans for Maynooth) it would result in the €2/€5 charge

Let us be very clear here, providing ever bigger car parks is unsustainable, its going to be like the Itchy Lot gag out of the Simpsons, vast car park which takes an age to get out of in the evening.

The solution is proper integrated local area transport, people drive to the station since they have no other option. This is all but too common a problem, Rush and Lusk, Newbridge and so on, a well thought out local bus connecting the town, major housing estates, railway station and other local amenities would go a long way to solve the problem and provide many other benefits to the local area in general, its done elsewhere in Europe but not here.

If you park legally you have nothing to fear from the nosey neighbour types, if they have legitimate need for a space they can apply through the local county council for a space to be marked out. If you block access, park as to cause a hazard etc well you have only yourself to blame

[Derek Wheeler]

Hi John

Excuse Marks rather harsh ending to his response. A lot of what he said in terms if integrated local transport is currently the thinking of the RUI committee. I have personally spent many months examining the car parking situation and seeking a national solution rather than individual solution. I assume from your post that you live along the rail line but not in an area that has early morning services to suit you. Therefore you are caught in the middle. Maynooth car park is indeed boxed in by the canal. There are currently plans to develop that area even further in terms of an amenity facility. It looks pretty certain that IE cannot develop better car parking facilities.

I don't know where you live so I cannot say if my local transport solution would work for you. But. If the car drivers from the immediate area that use maynooth carpark were provided with realistic local transport alternatives then obviously the car park is freed up for users from more remote or lightly served areas that can't justify local transport or rail services.

Finally John. Remember this one. I am a great advocate of localised public transport that serves rail stations and housing areas. Transport that helps rail commuters and takes cars off local roads at all times of the day. So far I have met with inertia, excuses and disinterest from local councillors and politicians. However a senior government minister is contemplating the provision of late night bus services to get people home from the pub. Bare that in mind if you write to your local representatives, particularly the FF ones.

[Mark Hennessy]

John as a Maynooth resident, my plan for a car park on part of the Harbour field was taken up by Aine Brady in her manifesto.

Perhaps we should badger her to see how progress is coming.
I really feel there is room there for a multi story facility but of course it would eb pay parking.

There are folks driving from all over North Kildare to access the station.
As an interim measure would Louisa bridge car park be any use to you?

[PaulM]

I was a student in Maynooth no so long ago. I started in 2000 and graduated in 2004. The difference Maynooth underwent in that time is phenomenal. It barely resembles the place it was when I started there.

The reason I mention this is becuase like most places around Dublin these days. Massive planning permission was granted for develpment yet there was nothing done to facilitate people living in the area.

The train line is most likely a major selling point for developers, from what I recall there are approximately 40 (if that) spaces on a very narrow stretch of land. Sadly the only advice I can really give is to write to local politicians. Is it an option to park somewhere further away, shopping centres perhaps? ;)


my plan for a car park on part of the Harbour field was taken up by Aine Brady in her manifesto.

What about the fair in June? Where are the local kids going to go to get drunk? That's very selfish of you Mark. :D

[sean]

How about extending the Maynooth line about 5 miles West and building a massive M4 Park n Ride there? That would sort out the problems and likely be cheaper than trying to squeeze more parking spaces into Maynooth.

The OP is from Longford as per the location in his profile. And yes, the Longford service is kinda rubbish IMO and I don't envy anyone who has to use it, certainly I would wonder why so many (enough to justify a train service) actually do that commute ...

[PaulM]

I would wonder why so many (enough to justify a train service) actually do that commute ...

Cheap housing.

[CSL]

Short answer :

Residents DO NOT own the space on the road outside their front door. The council do.

If they wanted it residents/controlled parking, I'm sure they could do so on application to the council . A similar approach applies all across the rest of Dublin

Anyone touches the car, call the cops.

You must park legally though, i.e. not block ingress/egress etc.

[shweeney]

Short answer :

Residents DO NOT own the space on the road outside their front door. The council do.

unless it is (as the note claims) a private estate.

[PaulM]

unless it is (as the note claims) a private estate.

Is there such a thing? On the road I used to work on there was some old bag who used to give out to people about parking there. According to her it was a private road.

[markpb]

Is there such a thing? On the road I used to work on there was some old bag who used to give out to people about parking there. According to her it was a private road.

Almost all gated estates and some non-gated but privately-managed estates are considered private property.

[CSL]

Sorry my mistake.

A: Then how can the coppers fine them since they aren't breaking the law ?

"Private" estates tend to be gated in any event.

An example [ to me ] would be UCD - private college roads. Do the council/coppers police parking ? No. A hired crowd of clampers do.

One or the other, can't be both.

[philip]

Indeed, if it's private the Gardai have no authority to issue tickets for illegal parking, BUT if it's private it's up to the owner to sign it as such. They can't just clamp your car without warning as it's a public place, even if it's not a public highway-just like a supermarket carpark-they must erect signage to warn of any clamping in force.

If it's a public highway then you can park on it (obeying all taffic rules and signs in force of course).

[James Shields]

In most cases developers and management companies don't want to be left responsible for looking after the roads in their estate, so they sign them over to the local council. There are exceptions, but they generally fall into the gated community category.

There is no right to parking in front of your house, so unless there are parking restrictions in operation, anyone can park there. You'll often see "resident parking only" signs, but they have no legal meaning.

About the only way to impose any restriction is to make the area pay parking and issue (i.e. sell) resident parking permits.

[John J]

Cheers guys.
There is a sign up saying "private estate" so maybe I am screwed.

Unfortunately people are going to have to park somewhere... if they're forced out of that particular area they're just going to have to find somewhere else!

Regarding paid parking, I would have no problem paying a small fee for a good, accessible multi-storey carpark... but I do think the rates being charged at places like Leixlip Louisa are taking the mick to some extent.
€5 a week... or €260 a year!
You're already paying €845 for the annual ticket.
A discounted rate for annual ticket holders would make it a lot easier to swallow.

How do you go about buying the parking tickets for Leixlip... are there any concessions for people with annual tickets??

PS.S If anyone knows of any good "car friendly" places around Maynooth within sensible distance of the station, by all means feel free to spill the beans! ;)

[Mark Gleeson]

Unlike the Luas Irish Rail do not offer integrated tickets which include parking

They have been asked to but the usual inaudible mumble followed

[CSL]

ring the council re if it's a private road or not [ get through to the roads dept ] , if the council maintain it then you can park there.

for the cost of a phone call can't hurt compared to the benefit.

[Colm Donoghue]

John, if the residents are threatening the law on you, I'd go to Maynooth garda station and ask if the road is private and mention you had parked legally but you were worried in case it got escalated and your car got damaged.
this way you'll know a) if it's a private estate b) if you have a run in with a resident in the future you'll have some backup; obviously don't confront anybody in a way that would make the situation worse.

If it's a public road, any parking fine is small ( was EUR19) and you'll be able to drive away immediately if you are caught. Also if it's a public road the residents have no more right to park there than you under normal circumstances. If the residents have bought more cars than room it just shows more symptoms of the poor planning we do in Ireland.

Also following on from Derek's pessimism about transport and politico's, the biggest issue to affect the minister for transport, including calls for him to resign because a privately owned airline will only fly from co clare to one airport in london, while it's main shareholder flys to two other ones.....

also a railway line between Athenry and Ennis is being built before any Dublin improvements...

lastly on a positive note, you could try touring around maynooth to find some parking further away - you're coming a distance anyway an extra quarter mile of a walk isn't going to break the bank completely. how far is your walk at the city end? most people wouldn't think up to 20 mins as overly excesive, if it's not too far for you, you could try and see how it goes. That said, I don't know anything about maynooth so this may be completely useless advice.

The fact the note used the word police seems a bit odd - It would definitely lead me to brazen it out and park legally until something happened but thats my particular imp of the perverse.

[Thomas Ralph]

I agree with Colm on that. A regular parking fine is €40 now (and it's sent in the post so you could conceivably get quite a few if you didn't know you were parked illegally on consecutive days). However, residents, while they may not want you to park somewhere, don't generally have a right to stop you. Only when you see warning notices about clamping going up, or statutory no parking or pay/display (etc.) signs, would you have something to worry about.

[andyl222]

I have a solution to this issue, about 200 yards from the train station is the local Super-Valu with a huge car park, big enough for over a hundred cars. Surely people could use this car-park and refrain from blocking necessary through-ways in and around the residential estates of maynooth.

[Mark Gleeson]

Odd on they have a man with a set of clamps ready to catch people

[andyl222]

To be honest, i've yet to see a clamper in that particular car-park, its there to facilitate people who work in the general area aswell as shoppers, so I would surmise that cars being parked there from 7am to 6pm lets say, wouldn't be clamped. It'd be interesting to see if anyone on here has ever used that car-park, its 200 yards away so maybe they'd find it easier to park in the estates like Silkenvale or Parklands which are closer to the station.

[CSL]

As MG says odds on they have clamps to deter this very thing.

It is private and if there's a notice there they can clamp you happily.

[seamus kilcock]

I'm a regular user of the car park because I'm a customer of the Glen Royal Hotel Leisure Centre which share the car park with Super Value and the other shops there.

There are signs regarding long term parking and the consequences thereof which includes clamping. I've seen cars clamped there.

Dunnes Stores/Mill Centre car park monitor and take car reg ensuring one does not park all day.

A multi storey park adjacent to railway station is the only solution.

[andyl222]

I've yet to see any cars clamped in the carpark to the left of supervalu near the bottle banks... and i pass that spot daily. To be honest they will never build a multi-storey carpark on the banks of the canal, for many many reasons. If someone proposed to do the same in kilcock it would be the same, theres no way planning would be granted. Funnily enough there is a carpark across the canal from the train station thats inaccessible, go figure.

Personally I can't abide the idea that housing estates would be used as carparks, and if it comes down to it, adjacent housing estates i.e parklands and silkenvale may resort to gaining private parking status from the council. If that happens, what will the people who park there and get on the train do?

[andyl222]

I've yet to see any cars clamped in the carpark to the left of supervalu near the bottle banks... and i pass that spot daily. To be honest they will never build a multi-storey carpark on the banks of the canal, for many many reasons. If someone proposed to do the same in kilcock it would be the same, theres no way planning would be granted. Funnily enough there is a carpark across the canal from the train station thats inaccessible, go figure.

Personally I can't abide the idea that housing estates would be used as carparks, and if it comes down to it, adjacent housing estates i.e parklands and silkenvale may resort to gaining private parking status from the council. If that happens, what will the people who park there and get on the train do?

Walked through the supervalu carpark this morning, and I saw signs that warned that over-night parking is prohibited but nothing about parking throughout the day....

[John J]

Thanks all for comments...
Regarding Super Valu carpark, yes I have considered that, but there are signs up saying that cars other than customers will be clamped.

Anyway on the other front, things have developed in the meantime, so I think I'll be taking the car into the city centre from now on and looking for free parking around the summerhill area.

Using the train is a no win situation... and the financial benefits after paying for tickets AND parking are minimal at best when compared with running the car.

I did try to use public transport - but IE have won the battle :)

If I ever meet John Gormley and he starts ranting on about increasing motor taxes and getting people to use public transport, I'll have a few suggestions for him.

[Derek Wheeler]

Thanks all for comments...
Regarding Super Valu carpark, yes I have considered that, but there are signs up saying that cars other than customers will be clamped.

Anyway on the other front, things have developed in the meantime, so I think I'll be taking the car into the city centre from now on and looking for free parking around the summerhill area.

Using the train is a no win situation... and the financial benefits after paying for tickets AND parking are minimal at best when compared with running the car.

I did try to use public transport - but IE have won the battle :)

If I ever meet John Gormley and he starts ranting on about increasing motor taxes and getting people to use public transport, I'll have a few suggestions for him.

A perfect example of how poor public transport/bad planning has consigned so many to the car.

[Derek Wheeler]

How about extending the Maynooth line about 5 miles West and building a massive M4 Park n Ride there? That would sort out the problems and likely be cheaper than trying to squeeze more parking spaces into Maynooth.

The OP is from Longford as per the location in his profile. And yes, the Longford service is kinda rubbish IMO and I don't envy anyone who has to use it, certainly I would wonder why so many (enough to justify a train service) actually do that commute ...

Re-read thread and looked at a map. (I also know the area) Seans idea is a runner. No doubt about it. I encourage others to consider it.

[dowlingm]

Not sure what is being proposed here - a new spur to a dedicated M4 P&R or doubletracking the existing Maynooth-Kilcock stretch (about three and a half miles) and making it the future DART terminus, perhaps moving Kilcock station a little way out of town to get enough parking?

[sean]

Not sure what is being proposed here - a new spur to a dedicated M4 P&R or doubletracking the existing Maynooth-Kilcock stretch (about three and a half miles) and making it the future DART terminus, perhaps moving Kilcock station a little way out of town to get enough parking?

Yes, I suggesting extending the twin track and soon to be electrified "Maynooth Line" about 5 miles down the existing line to Sligo, and putting a Park & Ride station there.

[Derek Wheeler]

I must say that this actually works for me. Great big motorway and rail line beside it. New P n R could solve it. Brilliant in its simplicity.

[Colm R]

Sounds like a great idea. I've recently being looking at houses in Kilcock. :eek:

Its almost impossible to find a house within comfortable walking distance (for winter time) of the station. Extending the future Dart to a P&R on the M4 between Kilcock and Maynooth with an absolute gurantee that Kildare Co Council will not do the cynical Irish thing and allow major development around the P&R. Apart from the station, and the car park, it has to remain untouched.

Also, services have to remain in Maynooth at present levels. A country which has a good public transport system is a country where you can own a car and choose not to use it and equally survive without one. Germany anyone!!!

I can't see NTR objecting to it, as the site would be between the toll bridge and the Dublin so tolls would continue to be collected.

So wonderful idea. Everybody wins. More cars off the N4, more passengers increasing revenue. Will it happen. :rolleyes:

You'll have to forgive my attitude to towards all things Irish this morning in this post and other ones. Its been a long night shift!!!

[Prof_Vanderjuice]

The Kilcock park-and-ride thing has actually been looked at in the past. I remember the 2000 Scott Wilson report on Dublin Bus (and Bus Éireann within the Greater Dublin Area) mentioned it in passing: http://www.dublinbus.ie/about_us/pdf/swilson.pdf#page=73

I think the DTO's favoured option, however, was a park-and-ride near Intel in Leixlip, with traffic coming off the M4 at the Celbridge interchange. Since then, Kildare County Council chose the Leixlip site as the location for a new town centre to serve the Leixlip-Celbridge-Maynooth triangle (over the advice of their consultants, who favoured expanding Maynooth town centre). This would seem to rule that location out, assuming the town centre proposal is still alive.

[dowlingm]

The trick would be how to do this while preserving decent planning. We don't want Kilcock to be Maynooth in a few years and having to push out to Enfield necessarily because the local council allows developers go mad in exchange for development charges. That said, it might be a handy spot to put a DART maintenance/storage yard for the Maynooth line so that trains can be started from there.

The other issue is catchment - it would be important to survey the users of the existing facilities to find out how many Maynooth parkers have come in from places like Edenderry or Kinnegad. If that number is significant then Enfield is the better terminus, no toll for NTR from Edenderry people either. :D

IE already start some trains from Enfield as it is. It would mean extra cost but that would really be about electrification since one would like to see that stretch double tracked either way, since it gives scope for more Sligo/Longford/Mullingar services, not to mention Moate/Athlone :D:D:D

Here in greater Toronto, feeder buses would be using the M4 to pass people to Maynooth and once demand required extend the terminus out. For example, feeder coaches would be starting from Edenderry and Kinnegad (with P&R car parks) and calling at Enfield/Johnstown and Kilcock and transferring passengers at the station in Maynooth, all on one ticket. Some buses could terminate at Enfield and turn back if they were connecting to a suburban ex Enfield, e.g. 0643, 0716, 0800.

That's how you manage commuters where trains are soon to be loco+12 bilevels: lots of feed. Very complicated stuff for Irish transport planners of course :rolleyes:

In the meantime, if the Maynooth car park is oversubscribed maybe it should be restricted to carpoolers, to maximise the passengers for the available spaces.

[whelanp]

I have this year received in the 3 parking tickets in a row for parking on Leinster Street.

I used to park just outside the car park near the roost on the mucky verge. As a result I was issued 3 tickets for endangering other road users!!.

This is an absolute disgrace. I parked there 3 days in a row on my way to work about three months ago.

For doing so I got three tickets, Two arrived in the post on the same day one the day after (4 days after I had parked there).

Had I been given a chance for the fine to get to me in the post I would of not parked there again!

I spent €120 in one weekend paying parking tickets. I have since advised everyone I see parking there they will be fined. Every day since (and this is more than three months ago) a car has parked in that space. I would like to get stats on the number of parking fines they have issued for this stop alone. I have seen them issuing them without even getting out of the car on occasion. Maybe they could buy a no parking sign with all the money they are making.

I have seen cars parked on the foot path outside the garda station on the footpath facing the castle I wonder if the owner of that car is getting fined. I have a feeling that the answer is no.

[constellation]

I used to park just outside the car park near the roost on the mucky verge. As a result I was issued 3 tickets for endangering other road users!!.

The lane to the canal? On part of that lane (particularly near the corner leading to the Fire Station) there is a double yellow line. Covered in muck and leaves but it is there.

Anyhow, it's a convenient way for the Guards meet their quota as it is just outside their door. And the owner of that car is probably a Guard.

[whelanp]

The lane to the canal? On part of that lane (particularly near the corner leading to the Fire Station) there is a double yellow line. Covered in muck and leaves but it is there.

Anyhow, it's a convenient way for the Guards meet their quota as it is just outside their door. And the owner of that car is probably a Guard.

No this is beside the entrance to the pay car park. I parked on the verge to the left as you come out of the car park. Have a look today another car is parked there again.

They really should be made to put a sign up. I'd a put one up for free but they would probably slap a destruction of property charge on me!!! Anyway I won't rant on about the gardai as well they are making money off us so why would they change it. And yes a garda owns the car that parked on the footpath I saw him going into the station.