[article] Train seat reservations system 'a total disaster'

[Mark Gleeson]

Well we know seat reservations are just not working
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Page 7 Sunday Times
© 2007 Sunday Times

[2Funki4Wheelz]

:mad: Kenny let away with murder and the last word there
the carriages where reservations apply are clearly marked
and another waffle about the shiny new digital age of the Cork train.

'clearly marked' apparently means the purple stickers above the windows that are non-specific to individual seat reservations and are up on all trains, all the time.

The digital displays don't always work on the Cork trains - and trying to pin this on a some period three months ago is dismissive. Also, this service is still the only with hosts, try finding someone to complain to on most other services!

There is no common system in place - from my experience I've seen unmarked seats, seats with a (red & white) window sticker booking a four block of seats, tickets with 'Reserved' printed on them jammed under the head rest and scrappy bits of paper stuck to headrests.

The article should quote the fact refunds apply if people end up standing in corridors, it's lazy by the journo but it really is Kenny's responsibility to inform about the refunds.

[Mark Gleeson]

The article should quote the fact refunds apply if people end up standing in co

Fairly sure I mentioned that to the Sunday Times

Fact is Barry Kenny is just using the usual 'We are investing.....' line, fact is this is just the latest manifestation of the lack of a customer service culture in Irish Rail, we have had the dirty train, trains with no toliets, no catering etc and thats just the new Cork train (edit I wrote that last night to use but didn't get a chance)

And yes I have the name of the train host who told me to go elsewhere for my seat

My last serious seat res issue happened in Waterford in April in full view of the CEO, I ended up several coaches down the train, there have been others since but no confrontations

[MrX]

Mark, well done on Newstalk very professional!

I would just like to point out that the 'These seats are reserved" signs have been replaced with "Book Your Online at www.irishrail.ie" which means absolutely nothing. It's simply an ad for Irish rail's website.

Why would a passenger sitting there feel obliged to move / not sit in the seat when Irish Rail have made no effort to advise passengers of which seats are reserved.

It's yet another case of expecting passengers to be psychic.

[2Funki4Wheelz]

And what's this 'teething problems' anyway Mr. Kenny refers to? Teething problems indicates new techonology/new procedures - there's nothing new about reserving a seat!

[MrX]

Also, how can you be having teething problems for over a year?!

[Mark Gleeson]

We must consider the problem was solved 3 months ago in the Barry Kenny alternative universe.

Well time to play a game

I will make a return journey out of Heuston someday this week, I will book at least 2 hours before departure of both trains. I will travel from Dublin City Centre, specific details shortly in the members area.

Having booked I will post the seat reservation number which is enough for anyone at a booking office computer or up in the passenger commerical office to figure out which trains I am on.

I will collect my ticket at the second ticket collection machine in Connolly (first one dislikes me), board Luas for Heuston

Of course Mark always selects seat A34 on a Mk3

We can of course send Barry a text when it goes wrong

[MrX]

I've also noticed the displays on the CDE seem to 'fail' / not switch on more often when the train's leaving from Cork than from Heuston... (In my experience anyway)

[Oisin88]

And what's this 'teething problems' anyway Mr. Kenny refers to? Teething problems indicates new techonology/new procedures - there's nothing new about reserving a seat!
Teething problems usually involve "human resources" in the public service.

[Colm Moore]

Kenny said new trains on the Cork-Dublin route have digital displays that will eventually be used on other intercity routes.

And in the meantime and into the future what will they use on the Cork-Dublin route if they are going to take these displays from the CDE sets?

[Thomas J Stamp]

He means they are also installed on the new intercity DMU's.

[Mark Gleeson]

He means they are also installed on the new intercity DMU's.
Installed yes, working doubtful

Its not as if it works on the Cork train anyways

[MOH]

So Mr Kenny thinks that when it comes to reserving seats for customers, it's sufficient to put up a general sign saying "Do not sit in this area if you haven't reserved a seat".

By the same logic, why bother wasting money on exit validation? If that's good enough for customers, then surely IE could protect their revenue by just putting up signs in every station saying "Do not exit this station if you haven't paid your fare".

Obviously, collecting money is far more important to IE than actually providing the service this money is paying for.

[Mark Gleeson]

29. (1) No person shall occupy or use any compartment or seat in any vehicle on the railway upon which or in relation to which notice has been fixed or given by the Board that such compartment or seat is reserved, except the holder of a reservation ticket issued by the Board in respect of the holder's occupation or use of such compartment or seat.

(2) No person, except an authorised person, shall remove any notice or seat reservation label from any compartment or seat in, or any door or window of, any vehicle on the railway.

So its fairly clear the seat needs a notice, we haven't had compartments for decades

There are two stickers, one is green (book online) one purple (do not occupy these seats with a reservation). Of course you will quickly find the green sticker in coaches with seat reservations, try coach D on the Cork train, or coach C on all others. Of course on enterprise its so dark you won't see the notice

[Mark Gleeson]

Ok so the seat res challenge is go, so details are Friday July 13th unless something comes up. Am I asking for trouble probably. Purpose of trip is to inspect some on going works which are of special interest to reducing journey times.

The journey will commence between 16:30 and 16:40 at Connolly station and will arrive back in Connolly same day.

I will make a return journey of a resonable distance, the journey will require two legs in each direction, one of which will be with a third party operator but the whole journey will be on one IE issued ticket.

Outbound I join the train at its starting point

1. Ticket collection works
2. Looking for yellow tshirt on site
3. Coach with correct letter
4. Looking for seat reservation cards in place
5. Taking note of any other proactive measures
6. Seat unoccupied

Return I join mid journey

1. Coach with correct letter
2. Looking for seat reservation cards in place
3. Taking note of any other proactive measures
4. Seat unoccupied

This will test a number of issues with seat reservations beyond the usual finding a seat. Indeed an on the ball ticket checker could issue a penalty fare to me despite having paid the correct fare, why? a goof in the seat reservation system.

[seamus kilcock]

Have you arrived back yet Mark?
Or are you still looking for your seat reservation!!!!!

Sorry - it is to-day you are travelling.
Anyway good luck.
It will be very interesting how your 'experiment' works

[Mark Gleeson]

Obviously not going to give IE a specifc seat number and train as that would enable them hide the problems from me.

I have selected a challenging combination one which I know will give IE a problem.

The whole problem with Irish Rail is they will never accept there is a problem since no passenger is going to go to the trouble of taking detailed notes and why should they

The train and seat details are in the members area

[Mark Gleeson]

Results are in

So the ticket collection machines in refused to issue the ticket, first one refused, second one popped up the can't find a reservation on that card notice (the booking was made 24 hours ahead) and asked for a PRN number, so I keyed in the reservation number and bingo ticket appears, average passenger wouldn't have the itinerary to hand

So a shaky start, but things got better. Being that I am in Connolly I board the Luas, the ticket includes the Luas fare, that be the third party operator

Arrive Heuston march up platform 3, two yellow shirts standing idle outside the door to coach A, there where reservations in coach C as well so god help anyone down there. Whole troop of us walked up and into coach A, all while the yellow tshirts stood around doing nothing.

Game was afoot, meet the NRG connection on the way by chance. No seat cards to be found, but as I get closer to my seat I find a notice I've never seen before, its a new class of seat reservation form, handwritten

Now for the ultimate never before experience the ticket checker takes a serious interest in the fact I have a reservation, everyone else gets the same experience. Several passengers where moved as people with reservations arrived. This has never happened before, strange that it was the Friday after the Sunday Times piece.

Note, there where no notices anywhere in the coach about not occupying reserved seats and still no sign of the proper seat reservation cards. Its all about detail.

Return leg was dismal

So train rolls in 10 minutes late. So the train is E, D, C, B, not lettered, A, board coach A, find seat occupied (mother and young child) but of course no seat reservation card, notice etc. No occupying reserved seats notice either. No staff presence to be found, of course I got a seat elsewhere

So outward leg, top marks apart from the ticket collection thing and the handwritten reservation notice

Return leg, zero points, total failure despite all the claims made by a certain IE manager it isn't working as it should on the ground. It should just work

[Thomas J Stamp]

So.

The train from port was late and no reservations.

So thats that.

Bye bye!!!!!

[Mark Gleeson]

So a little bit more investigation

There is a known problem in Cork with the electronic seat reservation system, it doesn't work most of the time. Problem is well known

The yellow tshirt crew don't work weekends in Cork

[Sealink]

Electronic seat reservation displays NEVER work.
Virgin here use them on their trains, and they are hit and miss at best, mainly miss.

I was trying to use the Irish Rail online booking system, and it's, flakey, to say the least. I think something like www.trainline.com (which. to be fair, has it's own issues) would be much more user friendly.

[Colm R]

Reservation systems are not difficult to get right. In fact, give me a couple of hours, a little perl/php, would even go with a free database, mysql. We see working systems in different circumstances.

Hotel Room reservation

Airline Seat Reservation

Cinema Seat Reservation

Car Rental Reservation

Meeting Room Reservation

Restuaraunt Reservation - granted, its written into a diary. But this is a system that works, and software should be based on real world workings.

What about a single reservation for multiple functions. Go into a travel agent, book a holiday. In one booking, you get flights, transfers, hotels, tours.

Its not as if the logic would be difficult. There are X journeys made every week. Each journey has Y bookable seats. This stuff is easy!!!!

[Mark Gleeson]

Well the complex bit of the reservations seems to work fine, you can pick the exact seat you want and so on

Its the simple bit where it goes wrong, ok you can understand the electronic displays being troublesome but you can't explain away why the manual cards are not used on the older trains

[Oisin88]

nice to know today that they don't turn on the seat reservations on the Dublin-Cork train, if it's "not too busy." Threw the wrong person out of my seat this morning and then had to run away (it was my seat for the way back)

Also, they haven't bothered to fix the problem on the website which means that when you try to book a seat facing forward in the train, you get one facing backwards.:mad:

[Thomas Ralph]

For that one you just have to know which direction the site sets up the train as. As far as I remember the left side points towards Dublin.

[Mark Gleeson]

With the exception of the Cork train when traveling in coach C there is a reasonable possibility the coach will be backwards happened to me once

[Oisin88]

With the exception of the Cork train when traveling in coach C there is a reasonable possibility the coach will be backwards happened to me once

Seat 1 was near coach D and Seat 68 at the Coach B end! When I booked last week it was the only seat taken.