Failure of commuter services from Kildare

[endar]

Again this morning the 06.45 service from Limerick had to make unannounced stops in Sallins and Hazelhatch to pick up passengers. This apparently was due to the failure of the local commuter train. This is happening to often lately and while we get apologies when we reach Heuston it is annoying a lot of people who end up late for work regularly (myself included). Last week the management made themselves available to the public in Hueston from 4.30pm to 6.30pm as a result of a number of delays the week before. It seems they have come to some agreement with their maintenance crews in relation to train servicing/repairs etc (I dont have the details). Why is it necessary for Irish Rail to tell its passengers that they have had to make an "agreement" with their staff in order that the trains will break down less often? After over 5 years of this kind of treatment I'm getting sick of it.:mad:

[Mark Gleeson]

Firstly and I am being totally serious Irish trains are as reliable if not more so that the rest of europe, I'm being serious thats not the real issue

Secondly this mumbo jumbo about agreements and targets it is kind of true. The depot in Drogheda (all railcars) operates under a performance regime and has agreed targets with the operational section to provide x number of units per day. Bonuses and penalties apply. Again not an issue the depot ranks in the top 10 in Ireland and the UK and has a Q mark amongst other awards, again not the issue

Steve Murphy and his team was out on the concourse in Heuston on Tuesday 6th. The excuse is bull and could only be dreamt up by a former UK manager. Sure trains break down and always will but to shift the blame is not on the passenger doesn't care.

On the upside new rolling stock was deployed on the Kildare line this week which is more reliable than the fleet it replaces

What is missing is the UK passenger charter style performance clause which discounts monthly tickets based on performance failures thats something I've wanted for ages but IE have fudged the timetable to beat the system

[PaulM]

What is missing is the UK passenger charter style performance clause which discounts monthly tickets based on performance failures thats something I've wanted for ages but IE have fudged the timetable to beat the system

That is something that would be welcomed.

[Mark Gleeson]

This is the message handed out on Tuesday 6th 2005, the P11 crew by chance was in Heuston that evening on business

Its not quite clear what is going on

The notice was a photocopy of a non white page so it was a tricky scan and the OCR wouldn't pick up the letters

[endar]

Yeah, that's the notice that was left in the trains alright.

The piece above about the UK Customer Charter is interesting, though I very much doubt that anything similar will happen here. "Customer Service" is not a concept that is fully understood (if at all!!) by most IE staff whatever about the management! Apologising continuously for "any inconvenience caused" gets a bit tired after the umpteenth time you've heard it!, especially when it should be for "THE inconvenience caused". Its amazing the little things that bug you after a while.

I take the point that generally Irish trains are reliable, but when things go wrong they often go horribly wrong.

[PaulM]

Apologising continuously for "any inconvenience caused" gets a bit tired after the umpteenth time you've heard it!, especially when it should be for "THE inconvenience caused".


I never thought of that. :)

[Mark Gleeson]

Its a shallow apology anyway since IE never have to cough up cash

The UK model works like this (I'm not saying its the way to go but the passenger has rights which Irish passengers don't)

Every single minutes delay is allocated to a specific owner, so if the signalling goes wrong the infrastructure operator componstates the operators

There is a target punctuality and reliability marker for each franchise, so 90% punctuality and 99% reliability (train runs) would be typical

If the operator fails to get within a certain % (3%?) of the punctuality target a payment is triggered which means the price of season tickets is reduced or validity extended. Clearly the season ticket holders are the ones who suffer from ongoing poor performance. 50% and 100% refunds are available under the 1-2 hour rules

The suburban performance target in the UK is 5 minutes to destination which is a lot more strict that here where it is 10 minutes for all services

And the rules for whose fault it is


Delays and cancellations caused by matters outside the control of the railway industry, such as severe weather, vandalism, terrorism, passenger sickness, or service interruptions at the request of the emergency services, are excluded from our performance statistics. Any such exclusions are clearly shown on the published
performance charts.

So it looks like bridge strikes are a valid cause for a refund as are signaliing systems failures

[sandraoh]

According to the new timetable the 07:24 train from Portlaoise should arrive in Heuston at 08:30 after making only one stop at Portarlington. Every day this train makes additional stops at Kildare and Newbridge. Every day the train arrives into Heuston at least 10 minutes late. Every day apologies are made and the delay is blamed on the cancellation of another train.

This was really getting to annoy me so I said it to someone at the customer service desk in Heuston. He told me that this was going to continue to happen as the "cancellation" was due to the fact that someone messed up with the timetables and put in a train that leaves Kildare at 07:54 and Newbridge at 08:01 that should get into Heuston at 08:39. These stops should have been on the 07:24 service from Portlaoise all along. Hence I will be late for work every day and am now forced to get an earlier train.

Isn't this going to mess with their averages for the year? This train will always be more than 10 minutues late and is therefore considered late under the charter.

I suppose whoever double checks the timetables is the person to blame for the missing Sunday schedule too.

[Mark Gleeson]

IE did a very very quick turnaround on the 5:30 ex Cork and reinstated the Kildare and Newbridge stops (we think until March 24th), we got a lot of complaints on that issue demanding the stops be put back. 8:40 was the arrival time of the 5:15 Cork Dublin in 2005,

From March 24th a new Waterford Dublin service starts and will call Kildare and Newbridge arriving Heuston 8:39. Thats clearly indicated in the printed timetable and the Cork train would no longer call There is no cancellation and no reason why the 5:30 ex Cork can't stop in Kildare and Newbridge and not make Heuston for 8:30, its got 43 minutes to do the 30 miles

The issue seems to be the 7:15 Portlaoise Heuston which is due to arrive 8:25 which is a little optimistic to have the next train arrive at 8:30.

The screw up was the 5:30 skipped Kildare and Newbridge before the replacement service started and once it was made clear to IE management the stops where reinstated there where some heated exchanges on the concourse when passengers nailed the management team on it, if you want to mess with customer services get them to show you the timetable, you can't cancel a train that doesn't exist

If the train arrives Heuston and the clock says 8:39:59 it is within the charter time (note in IE 10 minutes is 9:59 not 10:59 as in the UK) and as it is an intercity service 10 minutes is the accepted benchmark, 5 minutes is the accepted benchmark for suburban but IE use 10

[sandraoh]

I used to get the 07:23 service before Christmas and it was due in at 08:35. They then changed it to the 07:24 service due in at 08:30. There is nothing marked clearly on the Kildare Portlaoise Kildare timetable saying there will be a change in March. There is in fact a train marked seperate to the 07:24 train which serves just Kildare and Newbridge at 07:54 and 08:01 respectively. This has note A written above it but there is no note A explained on the timetable.

I showed the timetable to the guy at customer service and he said that this train shouldn't be on the timetable as it doesn't exist and thats the only reason why they actually apologise for the train being late because the timetable is wrong. Also it is usually at least 08:42 on the clock before the train gets in so it is pretty much always more than the 10 minutes late.

[Mark Gleeson]

The journey planner shows no 8:39 train today but put in April 3rd and it is there

I've attached the timetable and there are clearly details there on the March 24th/27th change

You are getting the run around and being lied too

[sandraoh]

Here is page 4 of the Dublin - Kildare - Portlaoise timetable.

This is the one I work off because not all Cork trains stop in Portlaoise. There is no note and there is a seperate train listed for Kildare and Newbridge

[Mark Gleeson]

Here is page 4 of the Dublin - Kildare - Portlaoise timetable.

This is the one I work off because not all Cork trains stop in Portlaoise. There is no note and there is a seperate train listed for Kildare and Newbridge
Said train originates in Waterford at 6:05 and runs only from March 27th it does not start in Kildare

There is something strange going on here, the staff are well aware but seem to be using it as a easy way out

Issue was forwarded into the depths of IE about an hour ago

Edit: Printed 2006 timetable clearly shows Note A, on the Portlaoise Kildare Dublin timetable page 60

[sandraoh]

Edit: Printed 2006 timetable clearly shows Note A, on the Portlaoise Kildare Dublin timetable page 60

But not on the timetable given out at stations or the one on the website (shown above)

[Mark Gleeson]

I'm waiting on IE to get back to me re the missing note A in the pdf copy

I'm more concerned with the staff (who have the full timetable) are misleading the public stating there is a cancelled train when that train doesn't exist anyway and the trains are calling at the stations they are supposed to, the 5:30 ex Cork is a different issue and was meerly restoring the status quo

[sandraoh]

Note A has begun and the 05:30 from Cork arrived in dublin 23 minutes late this morning at 08:53 this morning. This is just as bad/worse than when it used to stop in Kildare and Newbridge.

[Mark Gleeson]

A signalling failure doesn't mean the timetable is wrong

If the trains don't break down and the signalling is working (which is rare to break) the timetable as published is realistic and has some tolerance in it. Under degraded conditions the timetable of any network will go a stray

Key thing here is the indentify the exact root cause