Docklands Station

[Mark Gleeson]

As we all know its due to open March 12th

Now try going to the IE website slap in Docklands and Clonsilla and set the date to sometime after March 12th guess what

'Invalid station' comes up for Docklands and the online timetable says all the Docklands trains terminate in Broombridge not Docklands but you need to know the system to grasp that

[Colm Donoghue]

Directions flyer from IE

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/docklands_directions.pdf

[Donal Quinn]

jees that flyer is a bit pathetic - did they get an intern to do it?

what about walking times and detailed directions from grafton st and all the new shiny office on the south quays

those offices should be flooded with proper flyers - including the timetable - god knows it's not like it would take up that much room...

[Thomas J Stamp]

what about walking times ...


Cant do that, it proves its not intgrated with LUAS/Connolly, despite them clainming it it.

[Donal Quinn]

well maybe we could do one to show them up
i can do the text if someone can quark it to make it look nice
would the committee approve it - even just for pdf distribution...

[Mark Gleeson]

But you need a licence for the map...

Now a photo montage could be more practical

[Colm Donoghue]

Cant do that, it proves its not intgrated with LUAS/Connolly, despite them clainming it it.

yeah, the dto says its 12 minutes walk from Connolly to docklands

http://www.dto.ie/web2006/images/connolly.pdf

[Donal Quinn]

But you need a licence for the map...

Now a photo montage could be more practical

do i need a license for this?
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&om=1&z=14&ll=53.345786,-6.240749&spn=0.030949,0.092783

might throw something together over the weekend

[Thomas J Stamp]

Think you're ok with that one, its not the O/S map which is copyright Government of Ireland and for which you need a licence.

And, Google dont mind people adding-on.

[Colm Moore]

Just make a map .... I might do it.

[Mark Gleeson]

As expected today is 28 days till opening and Docklands exists on the journey planner

[Mark Gleeson]

Dublin Bus on the ball, new route 151 to serve Docklands

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=151

Runs on Quays as far as Chrishchurch before heading for Grangecastle

Looks rather useful in fact, it does stop at Tara Street station on the outbound leg

Where the terminus actually is still unknown

[ThomasJ]

Was down at docklands station yesterday and for a temporary station it looks good. The platform looks like the island on platforms six and seven at heuston. The pis is using white font like platform one in heuston. With buses now in place ie look ready to go for next monday week. One could wonder when this station gets demolished what memories it will have what services will have served it.

[StephenM]

For what reason will it close again in the future? I was under the impression it was a permanent feature.

[Mark Gleeson]

Since its planning permission expires March 2016

2. This permission is temporary, to expire ten years from the date of the decision. The development and associated works shall be removed from the site on or before that date. Reason: To allow adequate time for the proposed Interconnector to be constructed, in the interest of the proper planning and development of the area.

[Mark Gleeson]

Before and After

433434

[Colm Moore]

For what reason will it close again in the future? I was under the impression it was a permanent feature.Docklands Station is not Spencer Dock Station. The 10 year permission is to stop the government / IE trying to fob us off and not building the Interconnector.

If the Interconnector isn't built, having to demolish Docklands will cause such an uproar that they will have to provide somethign proper.

[Derek Wheeler]

If the Interconnector isn't built, having to demolish Docklands will cause such an uproar that they will have to provide somethign proper.

Or perhaps they'll just look for an extension to the planning permission. This is IE were talking about. I don't think a rule, law or condition has been invented that can bind them in any accountable fashion.

[CSL]

The "One Ring" might work ... but as you say I can't think of anything else.

[Mark Gleeson]

Dublin Bus is really going for it

Should be possible to buy a rail ticket from Clonsilla with the bus included in fact it would be valid the whole way to Heuston if the status quo remains


Introduction of a new Route 93 Bus/Rail shuttle service

Dublin Bus is pleased to announce the introduction of a new Route 93 Bus/Rail shuttle service from Monday 12th March . The service connects with trains to and from the new Docklands Rail Station and the City Centre.

From Docklands
Docklands Rail Station; North Wall Quay; Tara Street Dart Station

From City Centre
Eden Quay; North Wall Quay; Docklands Rail Station.

Fare: Adult €1.20 and Child €0.70

A combined bus and rail ticket to Broombridge, Ashtown, Castleknock, Coolmine or Clonsilla may be purchased on the bus.

[dowlingm]

I thought DB had to tender with other firms to introduce new routes which is why they keep tinkering with existing ones?

[Dave]

No but they do have to get ministerial approval to introduce new routes.

[shweeney]

wow - integration. the bus times actually line up with the train times. though it would be more useful if it went further, say to nassau street - it could do a loop of trinity.

[Thomas J Stamp]

wonderful. There are precious few trains to and from Docklands anyway so its not hard to organise.

What I love about the BAC timetable is that buses will run "about every 10-11 mins all day"

Now thats precision.

A question for Maynooth residents. how would you feel if the Clonsilla - Docklands trains were timetabled to actually start in Maynooth but say, no-one told you.

Would it bother you?

Just wondering.

[Mark Hennessy]

A question for Maynooth residents. how would you feel if the Clonsilla - Docklands trains were timetabled to actually start in Maynooth but say, no-one told you.

Is that actually happening? :eek:

[Gary]

Dublin Bus is really going for it

Should be possible to buy a rail ticket from Clonsilla with the bus included in fact it would be valid the whole way to Heuston if the status quo remains

Would it not be quicker to walk that route during rush hour?

I hope they keep up their zest for new routes, important one missing I think is connecting the IFSC to Docklands Station to East Point and onto Clontarf Road Station? They must be the two biggest business parks in the city centre.

[Mark Gleeson]

Note the last train in 19:20!

General News
Docklands Station opens Monday 12th March - more services for Clonsilla to City Centre commuters by Corporate Communications

Iarnród Éireann welcomes customers to the new Docklands Station, which opens this Monday morning 12th March.

First services to and from the new station will be the 07.00hrs Clonsilla to Docklands and 07.30hrs Docklands to Clonsilla.

With four extra services citybound in morning, and four extra services in the evening to Clonsilla, in addition to the existing services on the Maynooth to Connolly/Pearse line, there's a great choice of peak services for west Dublin commuters, with services on average every 10 minutes between 07.30hrs and 09.00hrs.

AM PEAK – PM PEAK
FROM CLONSILLA TO CLONSILLA
6.35HRS ( C ) 15.59HRS (P)*
7.00HRS (D) 16.20HRS (D)
7.15HRS (P) 16.34HRS (P)*
7.37HRS ( C ) 17.10HRS (D)
7.45HRS (D) 17.15HRS ( C )
7.52HRS (P) 17.28HRS ( C )
8.05HRS ( C ) 17.37HRS (P)*
8.13HRS (P)* 17.38HRS (D)
8.20HRS (D) 18.05HRS ( C )
8.32HRS (P) 18.08HRS (P)*
8.45HRS (D) 18.30HRS (P)
8.55HRS ( C ) 18.45HRS (D)
9.17HRS (P) 19.00HRS (P)
9.25HRS ( C ) 19.20HRS (D)

Bold= new services from 12th March. AM Peak times denote departure time from Clonsilla. PM peak times denote departure time from city centre. (P)= service operates to/from Pearse. ( C )= service operates to/from Connolly. (D)= service operates to/from Docklands. *= service operates to/from stations south of Pearse. Please note Docklands services do not serve Drumcondra, and run directly between Broombridge and Docklands Station.

While directly serving stations from Clonsilla in, the new services will also free up capacity on existing Maynooth line services.

There are a total of 15 services per day between Clonsilla and Docklands, in addition to the existing schedule. Full timetable details are available from our homepage.

Onward connection
Dublin Bus are offering a range of services to and from Docklands Station, The new 151 route and new feeder bus 93 route will be available for Docklands Station commuters.

Full details are available at the Dublin Bus website.

We look forward to welcoming you to Docklands Station.

[Derek Wheeler]

The little exit from Docklands and the sight of a scruffy Dublin Bus opposite it, all enacted on Sheriff street bridge is perhaps the sorriest sight Ive witnessed in terms of Dublins developing transport system. The whole thing looks pathetic. But of course, I could be wrong.

But I still wouldn't mind a few Kildare line trains running into it.

Once again I run the mantra....IE promised this to the Oireachtas committee in 2004. But that promise was broken. Mark? Any chance of that fine quote from Joe Meagher again?

[Mark Gleeson]

On Tuesday afternoon there where armed gardai manning a checkpoint at the bridge

Don't hang around, get the bus after dark seriously no disrespect to the locals but armed gardai is not a good sign. Been up and down frequently over the last year never seen any trouble all the same just be careful

[Derek Wheeler]

Don't forget the Meagher quote Mark.

Armed Gardai have been in the area since a shooting on Mayor street a while back. I reckon its pressure from businesses to keep the area clean. That said, its far from clean. Local people aren't the problem.

In general, that walk from Docklands would scare the crap out of me on a dark evening. Proper planning and less indulgence to developers would have the station located at the end of Mayor street. I did the meetings/presentations with Treasury Holdings nearly 4 years ago. P11 was formed too late to save this mess.

[Mark Gleeson]

"We certainly intend to use the Phoenix Park tunnel in the short term to bring trains from the Kildare-Newbridge area into Spencer Dock because there is a demand for that."
Joe Meagher IE MD, 25/2/2004

Strangely IE and the DoT have forgotten about it, it wasn't a once off statement have it in writting elsewhere as well

[Gary]

Don't forget the Meagher quote Mark.

Armed Gardai have been in the area since a shooting on Mayor street a while back. I reckon its pressure from businesses to keep the area clean. That said, its far from clean. Local people aren't the problem.

In general, that walk from Docklands would scare the crap out of me on a dark evening. Proper planning and less indulgence to developers would have the station located at the end of Mayor street. I did the meetings/presentations with Treasury Holdings nearly 4 years ago. P11 was formed too late to save this mess.

Its probably one of the safest areas in Dublin at the moment! but that's only as long as the garda high presence continues, there has been in the recent past lots of problems in nearby apartment with vandals and messing around with cars etc.

Also within a hundred yards of the station as you walk towards town the presence of two pairs of runners swong around a telegraph pole indicates a vibrant trade in the narcotic goods sector. Hopefully things can improve but in the short term I say IE will have a couple of security staff stationed there during opening hours.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Is that actually happening? :eek:

You wont be able to get it, its provided for though.

[Oisin88]

So now starting from heuston we have 90, 90A, 91, 92, 93 that all run independant timetables, will probably all sit outside Hesuton empty for half an hour while the bus drivers have their tea-break (can't begrudge them that) and then leave heuston in a convoy together.

Why didn't they just extend the 90?

I do see that they have abolished the 90A and the 91, although I could have sworn I saw a 91 in the last few days.

[Oisin88]

And now I've just spotted that the 93 only goes to Eden Quay!

journey time 10 minutes.
Walking time 12-15 minutes.
gap between services about 50 minutes?
integrated with train arrival times? on the timetable maybe but it is Dublin Bus so probably not....

[Dave]

Can't believe the 93 terminates at Eden Quay, they should have brought it further south of the river maybe even integrating with the luas line at Stephen's Green.

[Oisin88]

The 151 timetable says Burgh Quay is 5 minutes from Docklands.
The 93 timetable says Eden Quay is 10 minutes from Docklands.

I appreciate that it could take 5 minutes to cross Butt Bridge sometimes, but it'll take 5 minutes to get into Burgh Quay that day too. Is the 93 going to do the loop of D'Olier or Hawkins Street- College Street- Westoreland St. around to Eden Quay, and if so should there not be stops on Westmoreland St?

[ThomasJ]

I was down at the station today. I see the pis is working. It is a pity they connot get them on the maynooth line working. There seems to be a carpark at the station. I wonder will the 93 bus be driving into the station as opposed to where the 151 starts.

[Mark Gleeson]

Car Park is marked as staff only on the plans

93 terminus is the stop outside the station, a shelter has appeared on the inbound side

I will be down tomorrow to confirm the intercity railcar has arrived and I will make a trip out and back

[Thomas J Stamp]

Morning Mark. Nice to see the late shift is alive and well.

[Mark Gleeson]

Just in from crystal on Harcourt street aka the vatican (much much better nice beer garden), though I know there are sad people this very minute standing in Sheriff Street watching the Docklands station

We are a 24 hour organisation :rolleyes:

[Thomas J Stamp]

Yes because the new DMU left Droug at 22,45 and apparently sounded very quiet.

The Vatican, eh? I used to go there. In fact i used to go there before it was the vatican. Had my first rubber chicken and chips there as the law stated they had to provide you with a substantial meal to get their later licence.

And that was before the nitelink and, yes, it was all in black and white and he was called Cassius Clay then.

Good Night!!

[Dave]

Ah the vatican used to be the only place I'd get into with my fake usit card when I was 16 :D

[Derek Wheeler]

Morning Mark. Nice to see the late shift is alive and well.

At least Mark has an excuse.:D

[Mark Gleeson]

So I'll be out tomorrow to check out the 'experience' in mystery shopper mode.

Tried Clonsilla TVM on Saturday and Pearse on Sunday neither had Docklands as a destination

[Derek Wheeler]

So I'll be out tomorrow to check out the 'experience' in mystery shopper mode.

Tried Clonsilla TVM on Saturday and Pearse on Sunday neither had Docklands as a destination

Should we all be shocked?

[packetswitch]

RTÉ Radio 1 news (the bulletin on air right now, the midnight news) has the new station opening as the LEAD STORY. Isn't this all a little disproportionate? Yes, the new services are great, and yes it's great that there's a functioning passenger station in an area that needs it (let's ignore that whole demolish-in-ten-years thing for a moment, mmkay?), and yes it's good to see it come in without too much trauma over time and money..and even, it's cool that that bit of rail track along the canal is being used while we think of where to put new bits of track. And sometime this week I'll go and have a look around it and maybe even hop on a train to Broombridge and back.

But seriously. It's hardly a high-speed electric line from Dublin to Cork with 15-minute service. And yet RTÉ are awfully excited. Are our expectations this low?

[Mark Gleeson]

Main piece on the midnight tv news as well

One of the big problems in this business is the media are very gullible and will take the word of a certain PR man as gospel. I'd love to know how it cost €24 million, station is worth maybe 5 million tops, signalling and track €10 million and thats being extremely generous

We are still awating details of when the promised Kildare service starts....

[Mark Gleeson]

At least the Irish Times can poor some cold water on the IE pr line about a new station in the city. it is isolated and its not somewhere I'm comfortable walking at any time of the day and the Luas goes nowhere near

The good Mr Kenny himself abandoned the Maynooth line in favour of the DART.

Spencer Dock train station opens today
Liam Reid, Environment Correspondent

The first new train station in Dublin city centre in 116 years is to be opened later today at Spencer Dock. The station, which was built in less than nine months, will act as a terminus for new commuter train services between the city centre and west Dublin.

The last new railway station to be opened in the city centre was Tara Street in 1891, although a number of new stations have opened elsewhere in the city since then.

These include stations opened along the Dart line at Grand Canal Dock and Drumcondra in the last 10 years.
The new Spencer Dock Station will allow for an additional 15 services to and from Clonsilla Station from this week, catering for up to 2,500 extra commuters a day.

It will also act as a terminus for the proposed new Dunboyne line, which is now scheduled to open in 2010. The station is linked through a new 1km stretch of track to the main Maynooth commuter rail line, which normally brings services to Connolly Station.

Prior to the opening of the station, Irish Rail has been unable to provide extra services along this line because Connolly Station is operating at capacity.

This congestion at Connolly Station will not be alleviated until a major upgrade of signalling in the city centre takes place, alongside the construction of a new rail tunnel between Spencer Dock, through St Stephen's Green, on to Heuston Station.

Irish Rail spokesman Barry Kenny said Spencer Dock Station will allow for further additional services that could not have been provided for under the existing station layout system.

"You could not provide the extra capacity needed for west Dublin, which is one of the fastest growing areas in the country," he said.
"The trains passing through Clonsilla are always full, so there are people getting on who haven't seen a seat in more than a decade."

He rejected criticism that the station, which is effectively surrounded at present by a building site, is too remote. The station is at the centre of the docklands regeneration area on the northside of the Liffey.

The station is a three-minute walk from the Irish Financial Services Centre, Mr Kenny said, while it is served by two bus routes which connect to the city centre and other rail services.

An extension of the Tallaght Luas line to the Point Depot, which will have a stop beside the station, is also to be completed by 2009.

The new station, which will be opened this afternoon by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, was completed under budget for €20 million, and within nine months of having received planning approval.

It is located beside the site of a proposed larger station for the underground rail tunnel or interconnector, on which Irish Rail hopes to begin construction in 2011.

Mr Kenny said services at the new station would be unaffected by the interconnector work. Other new Dublin stations this year will include Adamstown and the Phoenix Park.
© 2007 The Irish Times
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/0312/1173443050012.html

[ThomasJ]

Delays to all services due to faulty gates at ashtown. An on the 07.45 docklands bound train

[Mark Gleeson]

Also on 7:45 got stuck just outside Ashtown, it was 7 minutes late before that incident anyway

PA was fairly garbled

And we where going to Spencer Dock according to the driver

Got my free coffee mug as well

And in platform 2 there was a intercity railcar

Note the 7:00 ex Clonsilla was 3 late into Docklands owing to a failed engine on a coach

[al2637]

What were the loads like on the new service this morning?

[ThomasJ]

I have to say other than the delay all things worked well. The free coffee and crossaunts the free mug with the docklands logo on it the intercity i walked with someone who works in the ifsc and they were pleaspantly suprised at the time it took them to walk. Fm104 were outside the station. We exited through the bus terminus side didnt know exit each side. Good loadings on the train. Happy man!

[Mark Gleeson]

51 on the 7:00 and about 130 on the 7:45

have my green IE logo coffee thing, note the clocks on the P1 and P2 displays are different

The TVM in Castlenock and Clonsilla don't have Docklands on them

[Mark Hennessy]

With all of the hype surrounding the new station, its good to see that IE have once again made no effort to get the displays working at any of the stations along the Maynooth line.

Obviously people will be caught out jumping on a train to the docklands but its not as if IE would care.



(I know why the displays aren't working, I just wish there could be a hint of "can-do" culture to actually get them working)

[Mark Gleeson]

Well the ones in Docklands do seem to work, in fact IE have made it even more complex than before to get the displays working, the computer needs to access not 2 interlockings (CY and ND) as on the DART but a total of 5, (CY, CW, CL, DS and SL) controlled from up to 4 locations using 3 distinct technologies with 30 years between them, loads of fun

Yes this is actually quite easy I work with a group of event driven middleware people they would consider this easy

First thing would be for IE to get the destinations on the front of the trains actually working

[Mark Gleeson]

http://www.platform11.org/images/docklands/first_train_docklands.jpg

The very first Clonsilla bound train at Docklands station ready to depart, new intercity railcar on the right.

http://www.platform11.org/images/docklands/clocks.jpg

Spot the goof

[Aphfaneire]

Is it just me, but even with a temporary station, 2 platforms sounds like a shortcoming?

And i obviously am very confused about the rail allignment in this city, as i dont understand how it skips drumcondra by going down along the canal, i though the track went over that line to get under phoenix park:confused: Its all very complicated, and heres me an avid player of ttd and ttt (trains and trucks tycoon) and i cant phatom are archaic rail network. That and i briefly believed that a belfast-cork train used to exist, thats not possible, in dublin anyway.

[Mark Gleeson]

This should explain the geography

Cork Dublin Belfast did exist via a reversal in Connolly in the early 1950's

Its quite simple only trains from the Sligo line can access Docklands and can only do so by the Midland line aka the one under the Canal End Croke Park

[sean]

Aphf, you normally use the Northern line so you wouldn't be so familiar with the lines going into Connolly from the West.

Trains to the Docklands skip Drumcondra because to get to the Docklands they have to use the Midland Line, this is a short, previously unused twin track line running from Glasenvin Junction to Newcommon Curve just outside Connolly and onto the Docklands area. It runs roughly paralell to the Drumcondra route, which is used by present Maynooth, Longford, Sligo services and freight trains that have to go from the Connolly network to Heuston via the Park Tunnel.

At Glasnevin there is a sort of Z junction. Like this


Heuston P10/PPT Connolly all platforms and Dublin Port
<========//======>
//
<=======//=======>
Maynooth/Sligo Connolly Platform 7 and Docklands station

[clonsilladart]

There were alot (20 to 30) little "gurriers" from the Sheriff St area riding the train from Docklands to Clonsilla today..... Some of them were even running up and down the tracks at Clonsilla this evening (obviously waiting for their return train)

[Aphfaneire]

Thanks for the help, i got so confused about it that i checked google earth straight after posting and figured out that the drumcondra track is the one that goes to the tunnel, if you use the points there. So now i understand it, kind of a maze anyway, and most northerly track going under the northern line couldnt a similar service exist, or was the whole re-alignement of the specer dock area to alow that line to be used for the interconnector, cause it looks useless now.

[CSL]

Anna Livia this morning was complaining terribly about extra level crossing time.

[clonsilladart]

Anna Livia this morning was complaining terribly about extra level crossing time.

Yep, Tailback at Clonsilla LC has been much worse for the last two mornings, however it does fully clear when barriers are open for > 10 mins or so.
It's not as bad as i expected, but the new distributor road cannot come soon enough (Fingall Co Co has erected a Planning permission sign for Ongar to Barnhill link road - This should help)

[Colm Moore]

Got my free coffee mug as wellStaff are still bribing the local kids with these.

Why are the platforms at a different level to the inside level on a train. The Indo had a picture Tuesday of a North Wall local in his wheelchair and the non-wheelchair accessible (intercity) train in the background.

The station doesn't fully comply with planning permission as there is no access along the canal, among a few other points.

[Dave]

Why are the platforms at a different level to the inside level on a train. The Indo had a picture Tuesday of a North Wall local in his wheelchair and the non-wheelchair accessible (intercity) train in the background.

That's being bothering me too. Why can't a brand new station have platforms that are level to the train doors ala Luas? Both the 29000s and new intercity railcars have a good step up - Why?

[Gary]

Aphf, you normally use the Northern line so you wouldn't be so familiar with the lines going into Connolly from the West.

Trains to the Docklands skip Drumcondra because to get to the Docklands they have to use the Midland Line, this is a short, previously unused twin track line running from Glasenvin Junction to Newcommon Curve just outside Connolly and onto the Docklands area. It runs roughly paralell to the Drumcondra route, which is used by present Maynooth, Longford, Sligo services and freight trains that have to go from the Connolly network to Heuston via the Park Tunnel.

At Glasnevin there is a sort of Z junction. Like this


Heuston P10/PPT Connolly all platforms and Dublin Port
<========//======>
//
<=======//=======>
Maynooth/Sligo Connolly Platform 7 and Docklands station


So beyond some backing and reversing manovers at Glasnevin Jnt there's no way trains from Hueston can go direct to Docklands?

[James Shields]

Did anyone notice the sign over the side doors saying "exit to linear park". These lead to a large metal cage, and some arches under the road to some big signs saying "Spencer Dock". The only way from there is back up the fire escape to the road. Where is the linear park? Or even an obvious way that will lead to the linear park when it opens.

[sean]

So beyond some backing and reversing manovers at Glasnevin Jnt there's no way trains from Hueston can go direct to Docklands?Bullseye.

[alek smart]

There were alot (20 to 30) little "gurriers" from the Sheriff St area riding the train from Docklands to Clonsilla today..... Some of them were even running up and down the tracks at Clonsilla this evening (obviously waiting for their return train)

Make no mistake about it but THIS issue will make or break this station as a useful,useable commuting point.

Just as Bill Bratton,John Timoney and others with ACTUAL knowledge of Public Transport Policing have continually warned.....Beware the broken pane of glass syndrome........

If one allows one pane of glass to be broken and fails to rectify the problem,then the eventual outcome is the destruction of the entire ediface.

Watch this one run !!!! :mad:

[And]

So any word on whether this station is being used in reasonable numbers? Are the peak services getting decent loadings (allowing for the fact that this was only their first week in operation) and are they taking any noticeable strain off the existing Maynooth services at peak times?

[sjkhayes]

Looking at Google Earth, it would seem that a train on the Drumcondra line, can run to Docklands. Previous posters indicated this was not so. What is the reason for this.

And while I am asking dumb questions, If the Midland line is being used for Docklands services, is there any reason why a station could not be constructed under the Dart Line at the Royal Canal. This looks like it is just 250 Meters from the Dart platform at Connolly, which would give us reasonable "integration"

S

[Mark Gleeson]

It doesn't fit, I've seen the architects drawings. Track isn't there, it was promised its not possible

Now depending on how you look at it you might fit a connection to platform 2 only but that would require a CPO on a industrial property

If the station was 50m further down Sherrif Street it would fit but then there would be no interconnector

You might fit two platforms down at Ossery Rd there but access to Connolly would not be possible, its about 650m on foot to the front door of Connolly

Even it if was it wouldn't be done since that would not satisfy the very reason for the Docklands station, the Hansfield SDV

The entire point is the station should have been built with its entrance onto the new bit of Mayor Street at which point it would be 300m nearer the south side, 300m nearer the IFSC and 50m from the Luas stop

CIE still own the land

[luasifer]

Ok so I took a wander down to Docklands Station the other day. The station itself is in my opinion very nice. Hopefully the local gurriers will not ruin it. I made a few observations while there.

1. Why do the trains only go to Clonsilla? Would it not be better for them to run to Maynooth? It just means you dont get the confusion that people think there are extra trains on the Maynooth line when actually they only go to Clonsilla. This confusion was evident when I was there. There was a person looking to go to Maynooth. The guy in the ticket office told him he had to walk to Connolly Station to go to Maynooth. Now there was a train going to Clonsilla in 15 mins. I think the better advice would've been to give him a ticket to Maynooth and tell him to change at Clonsilla.

2. You can only buy tickets from the TVM as far as Consilla. What if I want to go to Maynooth and change in Clonsilla on the way, or god forbid somebody actually might want to go to Longford or Sligo from Docklands.


This TVM issue does not surprise me considering I cannot get a ticket from Newbridge TVM to Howth, Lansdowne Road etc. Nor can I get a city centre transfer or a weekly ticket from the machine in Newbridge.

[Mark Gleeson]

1. Why do the trains only go to Clonsilla?Hansfield SDV.

There was a person looking to go to Maynooth. The guy in the ticket office told him he had to walk to Connolly Station to go to Maynooth. Now there was a train going to Clonsilla in 15 mins. I think the better advice would've been to give him a ticket to Maynooth and tell him to change at Clonsilla.It depends on the time of day not all trains to Maynooth call in Clonsilla

2. You can only buy tickets from the TVM as far as Consilla. What if I want to go to Maynooth and change in Clonsilla on the way, or god forbid somebody actually might want to go to Longford or Sligo from Docklands. Well the TVM in Clonsilla knowns nothing about Docklands either

BTW the station code for Docklands is 084 in case you meet less than on the ball IE clerk

[Colm Moore]

I bought an interesting ticket the other day. Broombridge doesn't have a ticket office. Docklands closes early.

I traveled Docklands - Broombridge - Connolly. At Docklands it was "Ah sure get on the train quick it’s leaving now" (PIS said 1 minute, reality was about 4 minutes). I wasn't too happy with this as I intended using my bus ticket to get home from Broombridge. Broombridge doesn't have a ticket office. Aided in the arrest of a stone thrower in Broombridge. I grinned at the irony of not having a ticket. Distracted, I got a train back to Connolly.

Arrived at Platform 4. Big sign "Do you have a ticket?" or somesuch with chap dealing with people who admit to not having tickets. Asked for a return from Docklands. Too much for him to comprehend. "Go through you'll have to get it on the other side". Waved through the new barriers - for all he knew, I could have just stabbed the "Do you have a ticket?" guy. Went to a ticket machine. Docklands not listed.

Went to a cashier.

Victor: "Can I get a return from Docklands".
Cashier: "But there’s no trains to Docklands".
Victor: "But I just got a train from there, via Broombridge".
Cashier: "Ah."
Cashier: "......"
Cashier: "What’s the fare to Docklands?"
Cashier 2: "I don't know".
Victor: "Use the station number".
Cashier: "What’s the station number for Docklands?"
Cashier 2: "I don't know". Makes phone call.
Cashier 2: "They're not answering".
Makes second phone call.
Mad button pushing on ticket machine.
Ticket produced.

But it doesn't say Connolly.

[Mark Gleeson]

The correct ticket would be

Return 100 to 098

That would result in Dublin City Centre to Broombridge return which is correct as Docklands is considered a city centre station like Pearse/Tara/Connolly

[sjkhayes]

Hi Mark,

I was thinking a station at Ossory road, on the East side of the North Strand. If there is not enough room, the platform can be build out over the canal. (Or there I say it, the canal could be filled in) This is 250 Meters from the end of the Dart platform. A separate entrance could be provided on the North Strand.

Also, could you give me more details on the hansfield business.

S

[Mark Gleeson]

A curious planning condition on Hansfield insists on a new station in the Dublin Docklands and the provision of rail services through the reopening of the Navan line

While we all know that capacity does not need a new station the forgotten plans for 2 extra platforms at Connolly would have been fine

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/YourLocalCouncil/Services/Planning/DevelopmentPlanLocalAreaPlansZoning/HansfieldSDZ/

Station fits alongside Ossery Rd but how you provide access to Connolly is not easy bare in mind it has to be accessible, its is 250-300m as the crow files but you have to negotiate a canal and a road crossing if you go on the level or underground or above ground you have to cross several tracks at Connolly. only option is to go underground with a travelator. But to the front door of Connolly its still 500m which is only marginally less than Docklands which serves a significant catchment

[sean]

travelators?

[Colm Donoghue]

are you metrobest in disguise ;)


Who's paying for docklands station?
is it the hansfield developers? central govt?
fingal co.co through development levies?

[Mark Gleeson]

Surprisingly close, there is something fishy going on and we need to confirm

[Redsoxfan]

I've heard from a couple of people who have used the Clonsilla/Docklands service in the mornings that volumes are very light.

I can't say I've noticed much (if any) difference myself to volumes on existing services. (I commute from Maynooth).

[Mark Gleeson]

First day the loadings where

51 on the 7:00 ex Clonsilla and about 150 on the 7:45, we don't have any data on the 8:20 which given it arrives at 8:42 would appear to be the one to watch

Outbound its quiet on the 17:38

The recon team is out, its early days yet it won't be until the week after easter that everything settles and we can get a real assessment. By Maynooth line standards the loadings are low but bear in mind the rush hour loading on a typical Maynooth line train is in the region of 300-350%

[al2637]

But the problem here is the addition of new stations/demand on the line, and the assumption that Docklands provides extra capacity for this. It's just too much in the middle of no where for people to want to go there.

What's really going to happen is that the trains to Connolly will fill up in Clonsilla/Coolmine, leaving Castleknock, Pheonix Park and Ashtown without a direct service into town.

They really should have spent the money increasing capacity in Connolly... e.g. a train arrives at 8:31 every morning, and then sits on P7 until 8:40 before it leaves for the return journey. Is there any reason why it couldn't turn around quicker and make the platoform available for another, possibly 2 trains?

[Mark Gleeson]

It all comes down to planning conditions one extra platform in Connolly could work wonders but then that would not satisfy the Hansfield conditions.

We did some math on Connolly and came up with a timetable which could get

3 Dundalk Connolly
3 Drogheda Pearse
3 Maynooth Connolly (p7 skipping Drumcondra via Midland)
3 Maynooth Bray
3 Malahide Bray
3 Howth Bray

Going the other way
2 Gorey to beyond Connolly
3 DART to Malahide
3 DART to Howth
2 DART to Connolly (then to shed Fairview)

Total in one hour 28

We ran into a slight problem to sustain this for 90 minutes would require a hell of a lot of trains

[al2637]

Mark, is that based on typical IE timetable padding tho?

If P7 was dedicated to Maynooth line trains, why couldn't they run them every 3-4 minutes? i.e. arrive, driver gets out walks to other end and departs straight away... maybe 60seconds? I only ask because this is what happens in A'dam on the metro... they have 2 terminus platforms at CS, and they turn trains so quickly that they can operate 3 metro lines on the 2 platforms (with a conflict!)

[Mark Gleeson]

General rule is 3 minutes plus 1 extra per coach, if you want it reliable which is the key requirement

Its also technically single P7 to just before Croke Park so when a train clears for Maynooth it will be 6 minutes before the next one can come in from the Midland line since it has to wait just west of Croke Park until the outbound train clears the Newcommen Junction

Limit on the Maynooth line is 8tph level crossings etc. Our little timetable can hack that by adding 2 trains to Docklands, of course it would have allowed for 3 trains from Kildare an hour as well if Docklands was built correctly

[ThomasJ]

Is there a reason why so many drogheda and dundalk trains run all the way to bray in the morning. If thew went as far as pearse and connolly could this provide an extra train or two? And how come platform 3 in dun laoghaire cannot be used as a commuter terminus

[sjkhayes]

Suppose you call the station alongside the canal "North strand", with an entrance on the North strand. That way it opens up another area of the city, including Croke Park to rail travel.

Strikes me that an elevated walk way as far as the Dart platforms at Connolly would be the way to go. The distance is only 250 meters which is a 3 minute walk, so I don't think a travelator would be required. Many London underground walking connections are longer.

People wanting to access the IFSC can stay on the train as far as Docklands.

The connection would be most useful to people who want to transfer to the Dart.

S

[al2637]

3minutes + 1 per coach seems an awful lot given the majority of peak Maynooth services are 8 coach. What is the +1min for? The length of time you need to allow the driver to walk the length of the carriage and have a chat about last nights football game? They really should be able to turn them in 1-2 mins at MAX... <1 if we had a decent rail company.

Would it not be possible to rework the signals/track so that the next train could wait just short of the platform?

As for level crossings, couldn't you move the existing docklands trains into Connolly without any additional closures? How is this going to be dealt with once the line is DART-ified and the interconnector is built?

Seems like an awful lot of this is fixable and could provide a huge capacity boost on the line if only IE gave a f@$& :(

[Gary]

DB are currenlty building a raised bus stop east bound out right outside station, not sure if they're adding more services down there or they will change the route of 93 & 151 buses that terminate on the other side of the road.

They seem to be doing a good bit of advertising for the 151, uptake seems to be slow enough from the IFSC side even though the 151 runs every 10/15 mins, guess rush hour traffic on the quays with no bus lane might have something to play with that.

It also saves DB a bit of a nightmare as to where to park buses terminating in the city centre if you just keep sending them across city like they did with the 46A in Mountjoy Sq.

[dowlingm]

Mark

could starting some of the Clonsilla trains in Maynooth or points west help the Docklands loads and take strain off the Connollys?

[Mark Gleeson]

That would be in breech of the planning conditions

Based on current usage more people use Docklands than use the Ennis Limerick service so on a wider scale the current demand isn't really that bad on a country wide basis

This is the first time in Ireland we actually preloaded infrastructure so a slow start is to be expected, that said some of the choices made by CIE don't help

Principle demand location on the Maynooth line is Coolmine

[dowlingm]

Mark

sorry missed that ref on page 4.

[Oisin88]

They seem to be doing a good bit of advertising for the 151, uptake seems to be slow enough from the IFSC side even though the 151 runs every 10/15 mins, guess rush hour traffic on the quays with no bus lane might have something to play with that.

Do you think also that they should have done some sort of research to find where people working in the IFSC come from? Perhaps there might have been other routes as well as the 51 that could have benefitted from being extended to the docklands.

[clonsilladart]

Do you think also that they should have done some sort of research to find where people working in the IFSC come from? I think there were more people doing business in college from maybe rathfarnham/templeogue etc. than clondalkin, so perharps the 151 (51 with an added bit) should have been the 115 (15 with an added bit)??

Really don't know what to say about that comment!!!!
I'm not even to get drawn into your "area racism"..... but your knowledge of the railway network is also worrying.....clondalkin isn't within 10 - 15 miles of the Maynooth line (leixlip confey is probably closest).
Clondalkin is on the Kildare line, which currently terminates in Huston!!!! Alos there are plenty of people from every area of Ireland working in the IFSC!!!

[Oisin88]

Really don't know what to say about that comment!!!!
I'm not even to get drawn into your "area racism"..... but your knowledge of the railway network is also worrying.....clondalkin isn't within 10 - 15 miles of the Maynooth line (leixlip confey is probably closest).
Clondalkin is on the Kildare line, which currently terminates in Huston!!!! Alos there are plenty of people from every area of Ireland working in the IFSC!!!

No offence was meant to people from West Dublin.

I'm talking about the bus and the lack of IFSC people using it. The 15 route was just an example of another route that might get a few more people out of cars but I can stand to be corrected as I was only going by people studying business courses, like I said. I also picked the 15s as it's a relatively short route. I don't understand what closeness to the Maynooth line has to do with anything.

[clonsilladart]

No offence was meant to people from West Dublin........

Well your comment definitely suggested a stereotype....... I know people with PhD's from Clondalkin........ Not to worry though!!!
I don't understand what closeness to the Maynooth line has to do with anything.
I though you were referring to the actual dockland station, not the bus rout.... apologies for the misunderstanding!!!

[Gary]

I think routing a couple of 15X down to the Docklands and even onto East Point would make a lot of sense.

You look at on paper there's a large population living in outline areas and there's a large amount of people working in the two sites, 20,000+ so why not route a 46X, 15X. The quays are also quieter but this will change when the new Macken Street Bridge is open.

On a seperate note the docklands station seems to be slow enough in terms of commuter numbers, not sure if that's planned to increase.

[CSL]

Probably not; the station is only there to satisfy a planning condition elsewhere and cos they got done over on putting it at Spencer Dock

[ACustomer]

I don't know whether or not some aspects of this message have been touched on elsewhere but the way in which Docklands has not been integrated into existing timetabling and ticketing seems to be disgraceful.

1. On another site which shall be nameless, there has been a complaint that neither the booking clerk at Docklands nor the TVM at Docklands can provide a ticket to Maynooth. ("Trains from here go only to Clonsilla" or words to that effect).

2. On the Irish Rail online timetable, Docklands does not appear on the list of stations in the little window which you click to pop-up. "Dublin City Centre" does, but more of this later...

3. If you enter Docklands in the manually window as opposed to using the pop-up list of stations, the timetable recognises the name and you get a list of trains, inlcuding trains to Maynooth (!! -see point 1 above).

4. Docklands-Maynooth trains all mention Coolmine as the change station. Why? (Well, at least it's not Broombridge).

5. If you try the online timetable for Maynooth to Dublin City Centre, as I did when I thought they might be using DCC as a synonym for Docklands, you get information for Maynooth-Connolly-DCC (by bus/Luas) . So Connolly is not the City Centre, then. Where is Dublin City Centre? Does such a place really exist? Is it the same as An Lar? Help!!

The more I see of Irish Rail's website, the more I despair.