Rail & Sail [Archive] - Rail Users Ireland Forum

Navan Junction

11-12-2006, 19:55

The Stenaline website says that it is possible says that it is possible to book a sail and rail ticket from Dublin to Glasgow.

However, when you contact the booking office at the number on your website they that it was not possible despite this message on their site:

'Fares apply from Dublin (Connolly Station) to any station within the zone listed. Stations shown in the price grids are a small sample of the destinations available - please call us for more details.'

http://www.stenaline.ie/stena_line/stena_line_ireland/belfast-stranraer/gb/by_rail.html

False advertising?

zag

11-12-2006, 21:17

Which bit can you not book ? I booked a sail & rail ticket to North Wales a few weeks ago. The ticket (or the receipt) was pretty clearly marked as being to 'zone a' or whichever zone it was.

Is it that they say you can't book to Glasgow in particular, or you can't book on the date you want to travel ?

I just looked at the link and I see it is for Larne-Stranraer sailings and so is different than the ticket I had booked, but the principle is the same.

z

Mark Gleeson

11-12-2006, 21:44

London Dublin via Dun Laoghaire works I know that, and its cheap

packetswitch

11-12-2006, 22:15

It is possible. In fact, there are three different ways to book a ticket Dublin-Glasgow:

(a) via Belfast/Stranraer (quickest)
(b) via Dublin/Holyhead or DL/Holyhead (cheapest)
(c) via Rosslare/Fishguard (not for the faint-hearted, expect about 12 hours on a train or in fact trains...)

Unfortunately it seems as if the most reliable way of getting your hands on a ticket is via the CIE travel office on Abbey St (or by ringing them). They actually issue the tickets with handwritten coupons, which is quaint but embarrassing.

I've done Dublin to various UK points over the last year, never had a problem with tickets. They will sell the return leg too (although prices are on a one-way basis). IF you're in the UK and trying to buy a ticket, most reasonably well-staffed station offices can issue the ticket (there's a full section in the National Fares Manual over there dealing with ship/rail tickets of various types).

http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm has lots of information on your options (although from a UK perspective, so London-Dublin times come before Dublin-London, don't get caught by that!). I contributed a little bit of this page, but the site admin is a serious mine of information on international rail travel (whether leisure or business).

Apparently you can also buy the sail/rail tickets at the port, if you're starting with a ferry (i.e. Dublin Port-Holyhead-London), but I've never tried it.

Finally remember that the pricing is by zone (on both sides), so sometimes if you have time you can really get a nice trip out of it (i.e. the one-way via Holyhead ranges between €30 and €39 during the winter, but that €39 would get you as far as Inverness or Aberdeen if you wanted it, as everything beyond a certain point is all in the one, huge zone.

Navan Junction

11-12-2006, 22:52

Stenaline won't allow you to travel by rail from Dublin to Belfast on the Sail & Rail ticket, despite the sample timetable at that link.

I got a Sail and rail last sat but only from Belfast onwards to Glasgow.

They wouldn't allow it to start from Connolly as advertised.

I bought a normal ticket for the Drogheda - Belfast stretch.

Holyhead to Glasgow by train is 7hrs btw, with 3 changes and a longer crossing time.

Unfortunately it seems as if the most reliable way of getting your hands on a ticket is via the CIE travel office on Abbey St (or by ringing them).

Cheers - will check them out..

packetswitch

11-12-2006, 23:02

Stenaline won't allow you to travel by rail from Dublin to Belfast on the Sail & Rail ticket, despite the sample timetable at that link.

Hmm, next time try IÉ, it's definitely possible...

I got a Sail and rail last sat but only from Belfast onwards to Glasgow.

They wouldn't allow it to start from Connolly as advertised.

If you (or anyone) has an issue with this in the future, point to the UK National Fares Manual, supplementary section D on Shipping Links. http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM94/NFM94_RLsectionD.pdf . The relevant fares are on page D27. Stena act as agents for the National Rail system or for IÉ as appropriate so they are just not reading their books correctly.

(Yes I know these are UK fares but the IÉ practice is just to follow them and use the agreed Euro amounts)

Holyhead to Glasgow by train is 7hrs btw, with 3 changes and a longer crossing time.

Yup, but if you're broke and not in a hurry, it's fun ;) and at best, it's 5h30 and just a change at Crewe, plus 1h45 for a fast ferry.

Navan Junction

12-12-2006, 09:02

From: Stena Line Travel Info Ireland [mailto:info.ie@stenaline.com]
Sent: 12 December 2006 08:51
Subject: [SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Sail & Rail trip from Dublin to Glasgow via Blefast-Stranraer

Good afternoon,

All packages Stenaline offer are subject to availability,thank you for your enquiry.

Regards,

Stenaline.
cw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: 11 December 2006 19:11
To: Stena Line Travel Info Ireland
Subject: RE: [SPAM]RE: Sail & Rail trip from Dublin to Glasgow via Blefast-Stranraer

Is that not false advertising?

Regards,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stena Line Travel Info Ireland [mailto:info.ie@stenaline.com]
Sent: 11 December 2006 14:21
Subject: [SPAM]RE: Sail & Rail trip from Dublin to Glasgow via Blefast-Stranraer

Good afternoon,

It is no longer possible to offer this package, we can arrange passage from Belfast to Glasgow as a rail and sail package, thank you for your enquiry.

Regards,

Stenaline.

cw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: 11 December 2006 11:24
To: Stena Line Travel Info Ireland
Subject: Sail & Rail trip from Dublin to Glasgow via Blefast-Stranraer

Hi.

You website says that it is possible says that it is possible to book a sail and rail ticket from Dublin to Glasgow.

However, when I contacted your booking office at the number on your website they said that it was not possible.

Regards,

Donal Quinn

13-12-2006, 19:54

i turned up in dunleary 40 mins before a sailing an bought a ticket through to carlisle - 42 euro no probs

byrneeo

12-05-2007, 19:15

wait... if you just turn up at the ferry terminal on spec you can buy a sail and rail ticket there and then?

dermo88

12-05-2007, 20:08

Yes, and its quite good if you have the time. Don't travel in a month with an "r" in it, you are more subject to weather delays.

Can you imagine how much an airline would charge for a walk on fare? You can choose when to go, there are few/no restrictions on usage, no peak time off peak fare loading.

This is slower, but it works well enough on Dublin/DunLaoghaire - Holyhead.

Just don't get stuck in Crewe on a Saturday night ...

Colm Donoghue

14-05-2007, 09:23

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53159446&postcount=5
:D

byrneeo

09-06-2007, 10:08

James Shields

09-06-2007, 10:58

question: i want to go to cardiff from dublin. now i know dublin-holyhead-cardiff works, but does the same ticket allow for dublin-rosslare-fishguard/pembroke-cardiff?

plus, are those ports as rail integrated as holyhead? i emailed europeanrail@irishrail.ie but of course got no answer.

I've done Cardiff-Dublin via Roslare, and it definitely makes more sense than Holyhead on a map. I would check journey planners (networkrail.co.uk are pretty good) to see which makes better time - it's often the waits for connections that are the killer rather than the time in transit. I'm not sure if the same ticket covers both, so check when booking.

I seem to recall years ago CIE had a dispute with whoever was running the boat, so they timed the trains so that you'd see the train waiting as the boat was coming in to port, and think, "that's great, I'll be home in time for tea." Then the train would pull off about five minutes before you'd actually dock and you'd have to wait four hours for the next one.

byrneeo

12-06-2007, 16:05

I've done Cardiff-Dublin via Roslare, and it definitely makes more sense than Holyhead on a map. I would check journey planners (networkrail.co.uk are pretty good) to see which makes better time - it's often the waits for connections that are the killer rather than the time in transit. I'm not sure if the same ticket covers both, so check when booking.

I seem to recall years ago CIE had a dispute with whoever was running the boat, so they timed the trains so that you'd see the train waiting as the boat was coming in to port, and think, "that's great, I'll be home in time for tea." Then the train would pull off about five minutes before you'd actually dock and you'd have to wait four hours for the next one.

still the same i think re boat/train times... but does your sailrail ticket include dublin-rosslare leg?

91101_GNER

26-08-2007, 17:43

SailRail tickets are not quota specific, and so you should never be refused them. The best thing to do is call SailRail themselves, which are operated either by Arriva Trains Wales or ATOC (Association of Train Operating Companies) on 08450 755 755 (Thats a UK number though) and they can send the tickets out in the post.

I've just gotten a ticket for £80 from Birmingham New Street to Cork, inclusive of crossing to put that in context, from Birmingham New Street to Holyhead alone is £51.20 for a "Saver return" and I believe that on average Dublin-Cork is about €30 so its definatly very, very cheap from the UK perspective.

packetswitch

26-08-2007, 18:12

Aye but you still got ripped off ;) the set price from Birmingham to Dublin is £24 or €39 no restrictions...typical that doing a journey with two tickets is cheaper than doing it as one!

Mark Gleeson

26-08-2007, 18:26

Cork - Birmingham is

UK Zone C is 39 euro
IE Zone C add on which is 20 euro

So single its 59 euro, a Dublin Cork single is currently 31 euro which is stunning value

So all in return is 118 euro which is less than 80 sterling

packetswitch

26-08-2007, 18:57

Whoops sorry my mistake, I thought you said you were charged £80 B'ham to Cork, but obviously re-reading it it was £80 return (right?), which (as Mark has just worked out above) is great value.

Never mind me.

91101_GNER

26-08-2007, 23:10

Yes, it is a return. I'm impressed with the price, particularly of my Enterprise leg, which was €90 for a return from Dublin - Belfast first class or £63. However a comparable journey, say London - Birmingham would cost the average person in the UK would be £201 or €296!

packetswitch

26-08-2007, 23:32

It would be great, then, if you could give us some of your ideas of how the service measures up to what you're more familiar with, after you take the trips!

Things like the quality of food/drink/etc, the comfort of the journey, the attitudes of staff, how user-friendly the stations are, etc. (But please, no locomotive chat ;) )

Personally I have mixed feelings about the Birmingham to London (Virgin) but I haven't had the pleasure of first class...

Mark Gleeson

26-08-2007, 23:38

But at least in the UK the train would actually

1. Travel at a sustained speed in excess of 100mph, best enterprise can manage is 90mph, Cork well 100mph if lucky

2. It would be on time, enterprise is notorious for delays. It got to a point where there are three different timetables all valid with different times. Cork the timetable is so padded god only knows when you actually arrive.

3. UK staff understand customer service, Irish Rail staff in the majority don't care. Funny isn't that 3 of the 4 managers at the senior operational level are from where? They are all ex BR men

Irish fares in the majority are not comparable in service level terms

Upside well at least IE buy decent hardware our Mk4 may be shaky but its so much better than the rather horrible Pendolino and the new intercity railcars will make the voyagers look quite poor.

91101_GNER

26-08-2007, 23:57

I don't know if its because I know the UK "system" inside and out, from tickets and fares, discount rates (everything from Young Persons Railcards, Family Railcards, to Staff Privildege "Priv" cards) to how the industry is structured as a business, and as a proposition to passengers.

My railway interest is in the business and operational aspects rather than rolling stock and traction.

One thing that immediately comes to mind which is a sharp contrast is that of clarity of information, I book a ticket in the UK, and I can find out all of the restrictions and conditions that apply to that ticket. When I did it on IE's website, it had general conditions of carriage, but there wasn't a lot else that was clear.

Our journey planner, which ATOC run at www.nationalrail.co.uk is more seamless than IE's website, and there is a greater degree on information abotu the onboard catering offer than I've found on IE's website thus far.

IE don't seem to be on a relentlesss push to force their passengers into advance purchase tickets, and fares are much more affordable. For me to go to London from Newcastle it's £200 return for an open (well for me its acoutally about £50, but the average Joe on the street its over £200).

We also have 24hour train information, live with a real person through 08457484950. It's not perfect but its a very, very good service.

Mark Gleeson

27-08-2007, 07:58

Rail and Sail are sold under the international CIV rules so the IE terms and conditions don't actually apply

The rule book is hidden from public view lest the public use it to their advantage http://www.platform11.org/resources/IE_conditions_of_carriage_2004.pdf

Ronald Binge

27-08-2007, 09:51

I'm well familiar with CIE's interpretation of the Sail Rail rules. Since the early 1980s I've travelled most years from Dublin to London via Dun Laoghaire and Holyhead, and like the paper coupon tickets nothing has really changed regarding ticketing.

CIE in Middle Abbey Street will not sell you a through ticket from Dublin to London, simply from Dun Laoghaire to London.

I've argued the point with them that you can buy tickets in London Euston through to Dublin valid on the DART but to no avail. Instead, prior to my becoming an annual rail and Luas commuter they sold me a day rambler instead.

A bit mad.

ThomasJ

15-04-2009, 11:33

Hi folks, sorry to drag this thread back up but I am attending a football match in wembley on sunday and am travelling from London Euston back to Dublin Ferryport via crewe and the 02:40 Irish ferries sailing,

Has anyone any suggestions?

Traincustomer

17-04-2009, 11:09

According to Irish Ferries current (2009) SailRail leaflet (available from them and travel agents or as a PDF on their website) the times are Depart London Euston 2010 and change at Chester (depart there 2256) arriving Caergybi(Holyhead) 0111. This is marked as the connecting train for the 0240 Cruise Ferry departure. This sailing is usually highly reliable as it's operated by the MV Ulysses. Have a good trip.
PS: I suggest checking these times with www.nationalrail.co.uk in case of any engineering work/bus transfers on any part of the route. Or e-mail Irish Ferries at sailrail@irishferries.com
You probably know there's a Dublin Bus service which meets the ferry. Fare €2.50. All the best

ThomasJ

18-04-2009, 01:54

ThomasJ

20-04-2009, 06:19

, It all went to plan on the way with the flight and the tube connection to wembley with the 15-20 was in wembley with 30-40 minutes to spare! grand!

Coming back from London last night/overnight, Stayed for the extra time and penalties! with the long walk back to wembley park station and two tubes to take to euston square and a 2-3 minute to euston station i arrived at euston with 5 minutes to spare train started boarding and i wwas only getting my sailrail ticket! arrived to the gates being shut and if i hadnt have told the guard i was making a connection to dublin i wasnt getting on that train!

got to crewe on time for the holyhead connection arrived just before 1 in holyhead and left on time from holyhead sleeping soundly through the journey and got back into dublin for 6 and bus connection into aston quay arr 6.30
preparing for work now!

Not going to talk about the match or result :(

Traincustomer

04-05-2009, 19:49

Just saw your post today as I haven't looked at the Forum much recently.Glad your trip went ok.

ThomasJ

26-05-2009, 16:50

I have to say have been taking a few trips over by boat over the last few weeks and heres how I faired:

Prices for foot passengers connections
Irish Ferries & onward connection to manchester around €75
Stena line & bus eireann to manchester €72
Norfolk line €140 Dublin Liverpool (and that didn't even include Liverpool-Manchester!

Getting/buying tickets:
Irish Ferries & Rail - No bother, got from Connolly station!

Stena Line & BE - Could only get a single from busaras their allocation were sold out! got the return leg from the coach station.

Norfolk line- Website fares are cheaper, phone onsite purchasing sets you back with a €25 booking fee on top of things! My experience was the tickets were sold out but I found out only the cabins were! The cabins were default at 1 and read-only on the page and i had to go to the next day change this to 0 and go back to the day i wished to book. It then told me I had to select a cabin even though i said "0" cabins. There was no option of n/a and because of this I couldn't book the trip! :mad: So I had to book at the port (phone bookings were closed!) Total price premium fare, (you had no other choice for the evening sailing but the evening and breakfast meal were included!) €140 :eek: :mad:

On-board experience

Irish Ferries & rail- No problems on the train, virgin express had a shop on board and flew in change at chester arriva trains in wales hadn't but boy did it fly! i felt like we were taking off it was at the top speed alot. Irish ferries was grand had breakfast (at that hour of the morning! yes) slept in the bar area- alot of cowches and reclining seats as well upstairs- brilliant! bar and shop stayed open throughout the trip until the end!

Bus eireann/national express & stenaline- No problem here either. The bus trip took about 5 hours (because of stops etc) but had a great sleep on the coach (wasn't the same coach all the way, private operator to holyhead, then change to bus eireann) The ship was more or less the same as irish ferries but more or offer food wise etc. Pity you cant take the overnight stena ferry with the rail option. it doesnt take foot passengers.

Norfolk line- As a foot passenger, I hated it! :mad: There were 3 foot passengers in total! On board the shop was a small area beside the front desk and there was no bureau de change was explained that norfolkline havent a licence to operate the cash. the resturaunt opened for the evening for an hour or two the meal was ok not great. Everything shut down by about 11:30-12:00. jsut slept on the couch. We were called for breakfast around 5 were late getting into birkenhead because of the space/allocation issues got in at around 6-6.30. In at birkenhead port £15 between the 3 of us £10 for a ticket Liverpool-manchester. even though I had the return ticket I chose not to return that way go by coach instead! I wont be going that way in future!

My recommendations would sail and rail or coach and sail with irish ferries or stena line with rail/bus connections

plant43

26-07-2009, 07:55

Planning Dublin-Holyhead-Portsmouth in September. Does anyone know if Sail & Rail is subsidised in any way? It's a wonder how it can be so cheap.

ThomasJ

27-07-2009, 12:00

i was actually wondering that myself! Its great value.

Going to england and scotland a few times in the coming months/year and it will be my preferred option!

Am looking forward to travelling to Edinburgh (via belfast-stranraer) soon!

Colm Moore

27-07-2009, 19:46

Planning Dublin-Holyhead-Portsmouth in September. Does anyone know if Sail & Rail is subsidised in any way? It's a wonder how it can be so cheap.
I think its down to whatever historical agreements were there with Stena and British Rail.

Eddie

20-09-2009, 01:38

It's cheap relative to a walk-on flight fare, but not to a well-planned one.

From memory, there were no single fares before 2004 and Rail & Sail would have been competitive only if bought as a return fare. Trouble is, with fewer fast ferry sailings out of Dublin / Dun Laoghaire, finding appropriate sailings to both leave and arrive at your destination at the time of your choosing and without a long wait in Holyhead in both directions is difficult. So for practical reasons, maybe some Rail & Sail passengers get a single and come back by air.

Bring back an early morning sailing from Dublin / Dun Laoghaire and a later evening one from Holyhead!

Sealink

04-04-2010, 23:20

ThomasJ

16-04-2010, 10:52

any thoughts on making this thread a sticky (and maybe have the first post as important information) for the duration of the disruption

trying to find this information on the irish rail website is like trying to find a needle in a haystack

dowlingm

16-04-2010, 11:48

might be worth putting an alert on railusers.ie front page too.

Mark Gleeson

16-04-2010, 12:22

IE are not selling currently, must go to ferry companies direct who are up to their neck in bookings

Rail capacity on the UK side is not able to cope currently with the numbers, even the small sea cat can take 560 passengers, HSS and Ulysses 1500 and 2000

ThomasJ

16-04-2010, 12:52

according to rte, stena line saying all foot passenger spaces for dun laoghaire route fully booked out for today and tomorrow.

Mark Gleeson

16-04-2010, 13:05

They don't have a proper gangway from the sea cat in DL you have to board via the car deck on foot!

If arriving by rail follow the sign for platform 3, (turn left as you pass through the turnstiles), down the stairs and use the rear exit to access the ferry terminal, saves a good few minutes as its not clear from the front entrance how to get to the ferry

ThomasJ

16-04-2010, 15:25

update on rte re irish ferries

15:51 Irish Ferries says there are plenty of places available on the Ulyssess car ferry for sailings from Dublin to Holyhead at 20:55 tonight and at 08:05 tomorrow morning.

It says foot spaces are limited for the Swift ferry sailings at 08:45 and 14:30 tomorrow.

The company also 'plenty' of space for foot and car passengers on the Rosslare to Pembroke services at 20:45 and 08:45 tomorrow.

Eddie

16-04-2010, 19:06

They don't have a proper gangway from the sea cat in DL you have to board via the car deck on foot!

It really is very slow embarking and disembarking, with foot passengers having to use the same singular exit route as vehicles. Not a patch on the HSSs dual entry and exit routes for cars and separate gangway for foot passengers.

Mark Gleeson

16-04-2010, 19:13

It only left 10 minutes late anyways

They let the foot passengers off first this evening, never seen that number in my life get off a single ferry in DL

ThomasJ

16-04-2010, 19:19

It only left 10 minutes late anyways

They let the foot passengers off first this evening, never seen that number in my life get off a single ferry in DL

really? Any guesstimate mark? Did many head for the dart?

I wonder how rosslare is fairing

Mark Gleeson

16-04-2010, 21:35

I'd guess upwards of 250 on foot, plus a full load of cars

Eddie

16-04-2010, 21:59

That was my guess too, but it's a small boat really, only can take about 550 passengers.

Hundreds came through Dun Laoghaire back in 2008 for the Ireland vs Wales rugby match at Croke Park. This year the fast ferry to Dun Laoghaire hadn't started by that weekend.

I overheard one bloke down there this evening saying that his friend was coming into DL on the incoming 6.10pm by car and he was driving it back on the 9.15pm from the port because neither could get foot passenger fares as they were full for foot passengers (but not for cars).

How daft is that?

Thomas Ralph

17-04-2010, 08:05

Not as daft as Dunkerque, where last night they had space for bicycle passengers but not foot passengers. Cue a very good evening's business for bike shops.

Mark Gleeson

17-04-2010, 09:43

I was on the up morning train from Rosslare, not noticeably busier than last Saturday, not a single suitcase to be seen in the first coach

No problems getting a seat from DL

Plently arriving into DL with suitcases heading for the terminal

ThomasJ

17-04-2010, 11:33

irish ferries saying all of its ferry sailings with the exception of the dublin sailing tonight FULLY BOOKED

Stena line says there is some room for foot passengers on its rosslare sailing.

dowlingm

17-04-2010, 14:34

Rosslare Connolly deferred to 1335 today (http://irishrail.ie/your_journey/timetables_junction3.asp?hidLegsOut02=1&resOut02003=A609%3B17+Apr+2010%3BRLEPT%3B13%3A35%3 BCNLLY%3B16%3A32%3B2%3B0++%3Bstandard++++++++++++% 3Bintercity+++++++++++&hidBookableLegsOut02=1&From=Rosslare+Europort&To=Dublin+Connolly&Month=04&Day=17&Changes=0&DepDate=17%2F04%2F2010&DepTime=13%3A35%3A00&ArrDate=17%2F04%2F2010&ArrTime=16%3A32%3A00&uid1=Z90423&dp1=1&arrSta1=Dublin+Connolly&ap1=5&sc1=S&dtime1=20100417&serviceBrand1=I&valid=Runs+on+Saturday+17+April+only.&Details.x=6&Details.y=6&hidBookableLegsOut=1). According to a post on Boards (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65445798&postcount=470) Ciaran Cuffe is supposed to have had something to do with this. Nothing on irishrail.ie, or on Irish Ferries (who would be the beneficiaries of this service)

There are days when Irish transport seems like Saipan 2002.

Mark Gleeson

17-04-2010, 14:43

Curious that the ferries in Rosslare all arrive early morning and again 12 hours later in the evening, there are no lunchtime arrivals. No ferry due from France either.

Could be due to engineering works, the ferry story doesn't match the timetable. As I posted, there was no sign of any noticeable increase in demand on the up train from Rosslare this morning, which does connect with one of the ferries

Edit nothing on Cuffe's twitter or blog about it

Eddie

17-04-2010, 15:33

Looks like the 4.20pm Lynx (and therefore the 7.25pm) is cancelled again due to technical problems according to Stena's website.

dowlingm

17-04-2010, 15:52

Interestingly the original post disappeared from IRN so it sounds like they let their imagination run away with them.

ThomasJ

17-04-2010, 16:24

Interestingly the original post disappeared from IRN so it sounds like they let their imagination run away with them.

the 12.30pm is a pembroke arrival time! The website doesnt clearly explain that!

Thomas Ralph

17-04-2010, 21:31

There are posters up in Connolly saying they are inable to sell Rail&Sail tickets until further notice and to contact the ferry companies instead.

purplepanda

17-04-2010, 23:42

Rosslare Fishguard needs more frequent train services from London, a train to connect with the summer fast ferry like the Dublin route would be perfect.

I did the Euston to Dublin Port journey in 7 & 1/4 hours just before Xmas with the fast ferry, 07.20 train out of London Euston when over for a funeral in Longford & the airports were closed due to the bad weather.

Ryanair wanted me to book an expensive last minute flight but refused to give me a promise, that I could take the following plane if my initial flight was grounded due to the weather!:confused:

Ferry & Train companies need to sync their timetables to achieve faster journeys, because there are increasing numbers of people fed up with all the problems involved with air travel which seem to be getting worse over time.

Meanwhile the ferries are doing a great trade on foot passengers across the English Channel with Eurostar fully booked up. With the new Kings X St Pancras high speed 1hour 10mins trains to Dover the best cheaper option to the coast @ £35 Off Peak Return for anyone who needs to get to Continental Europe:D at short notice:rolleyes:

dowlingm

18-04-2010, 02:42

There are posters up in Connolly saying they are inable to sell Rail&Sail tickets until further notice and to contact the ferry companies instead.I would LOVE to know who made that call and why. It makes no sense for the railway (unless they want to exit the business) and while the ferry companies might make a few more bob selling sail-only this volcano won't last forever and when it does it will go back to tumbleweed through the passenger lounge much of the time and they might be glad of the sailrailers then.

The reason could be purely technical - a fear of overselling because the sailrailer tickets don't show up in the ferry computers maybe, but the appearance is terrible. Instead stories are surfacing of cars being shuttled back and forth to the UK because the ferry companies are accepting car but not foot passenger bookings.

Mark Gleeson

18-04-2010, 08:23

Rail Sail worked on the assumption that there was always space on the ferry, so once IE didn't sell more than a nominal number for each ferry there was no problem.

That no longer applies as the ferries are sold out for the next few days, and there is no room on the train out of Holyhead either. The booking systems of Irish Ferries and Stena Line where unusable yesterday which resulted in 90+ minute queue in Dun Laoghaire for tickets for next week. Stena can still sell Rail and Sail tickets I understand and can be booked online but only if you book several days ahead and are traveling to/from a selected set of destination/origin pairs

Thomas Ralph

18-04-2010, 09:40

Stena only offers Rail&Sail bookings online if originating in the UK.

Rail&Sail is, or has been, available as a walk-up ticket at UK stations. All Irish stations have a code on the National Rail computer systems.

plant43

18-04-2010, 13:32

Stena only offers Rail&Sail bookings online if originating in the UK.

And if you have a UK billing address for your credit card.

Thomas Ralph

18-04-2010, 14:42

And if you have a UK billing address for your credit card.

That can be worked around. The originating in the UK can't.

Eddie

18-04-2010, 16:14

Can someone offer an explanation as to why Stena either cannot retimetable its Lynx so that it can do 2 return trips a day or bring back its HSS for the duration of the current disruption?

It seems to be continually cancelling its second return trip "due to technical difficulties", but if it can run one, then I don't see why it can't run 2, albeit starting earlier or finishing later, if it's slower.

Impacting 1000 passengers per return trip and inconveniencing them will stay in the memory long after the current disruption is over.

Mark Gleeson

18-04-2010, 16:19

19:25 DL - Holyhead is cancelled again today

ThomasJ

18-04-2010, 16:48

19:25 DL - Holyhead is cancelled again today

i really think preassure needs to be put on stenaline to reintroduce the HSS now

Colm Moore

18-04-2010, 16:50

It seems to be continually cancelling its second return trip "due to technical difficulties", but if it can run one, then I don't see why it can't run 2, albeit starting earlier or finishing later, if it's slower. Is this down to available crew?

dowlingm

18-04-2010, 20:13

Can someone offer an explanation as to why Stena either cannot retimetable its Lynx so that it can do 2 return trips a day or bring back its HSS for the duration of the current disruption?Do we know what HSS is doing right now? In any case, "the current disruption" could last hours or weeks. That's a big gamble. I don't blame the ferry operators for maxing out their current equipment for now. What is important is for UK and Irish authorities to ensure the public is aware of alternative routings such as the Isle of Man, Larne etc. and to ensure all the public transport companies cooperate with the ferry companies to move people quickly and efficiently, even if it means issuing week-to-week licences to private operators like Aircoach.

Mark Gleeson

18-04-2010, 20:27

We are working up some information and links, very early draft http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/railandsail.php

There are ferries to Liverpool as well as Holyhead, a fact which has gone unnoticed.

ThomasJ

18-04-2010, 21:10

nicely done! Its needed !

Mark Gleeson

18-04-2010, 22:13

The so called extra Rosslare Dublin service came back empty, lights off and out of service. The deferred 17:40 didn't seem all that busy though there clearly where several ferry passengers on board

To add insult to injury the 17:40 was a 29k, the empty special an ICR

People need to know in advance, IE only went public after the ferries had set sail from Wales.

ThomasJ

19-04-2010, 00:05

i dont get it?!

The one time they decide to send out a train out to rosslare at a time that would provide passengers with a ferry connection and they decide to run it empty!

The mind truely boggles!

dowlingm

19-04-2010, 02:40

One way to prove it won't work - don't let anyone on!

Colm Moore

19-04-2010, 09:10

karlr42

19-04-2010, 10:20

One way to prove it won't work - don't let anyone on!
My reading of Mark's post was that there was no demand for the extra service(all intending passengers were accommodated on the timetabled service), hence why the extra ran OOS.

robdrysdale

19-04-2010, 10:22

Do we know what HSS is doing right now? In any case, "the current disruption" could last hours or weeks. That's a big gamble. I don't blame the ferry operators for maxing out their current equipment for now. What is important is for UK and Irish authorities to ensure the public is aware of alternative routings such as the Isle of Man, Larne etc. and to ensure all the public transport companies cooperate with the ferry companies to move people quickly and efficiently, even if it means issuing week-to-week licences to private operators like Aircoach.

HSS parked up in Holyhead yesterday, when I was passing through there.

The 4ish Holyhead to Dublin Stena Lynx was cancelled due to technical difficulties. However, there was an announcement at around 4.30pm that it was back on amid many cheers. Seemed to run. I was on 5.15pm Swift.

Having just driven Dublin to Paris and back to pick up my stranded wife and co. I can tell you that the problems are far more compounded than just the Irish Sea crossings and Irish rail.

Form what I can see, the ferry companies seem used to traveling at half capacity these days so the various systems don't seem integrated. They've all effectively shut down online bookings for foot passengers and all specials (e.g. Sailrail) are canceled. That's British Channel and Irish Sea. You can still book cars, which is why I opted for that option.

If you arrive in Holyhead or Callais or Dover etc. you will likely get on a ferry. You will just have go on standby. First come first served basis. You might have to hang around for up to 5 or 6 hours.

The train from Holyhead to London now has to be booked in Holyhead. Big queues. You'll get on on eventually just probably not the one soon after you arrive.

Sure it's a big mess but the reality is that few people travel these routes any more. They fly or take Eurostar.

Even the Eurostar booking system appeared to not be working when I tried to book it.

Anyway, happy to report on a rail site, that I'd no problems with the ferries when traveling by CAR. :)

comcor

19-04-2010, 11:30

Does anyone know the practicalities of getting to Swansea Ferry Port from Swansea Train Station?

It looks about 2 km on Google Maps, which may be a bit far to walk with luggage.

But there is no indication of a bus (last time I made the rip in the early 90s, there was a shuttle bus that linked ferry arrivals to the train station).

Is a taxi the best option?

Colm Moore

19-04-2010, 11:50

Both of these have the exact same text, but no timetable.

http://www.travel-friend.co.uk/ferryports/ferryports_swansea.htm

http://www.fastnetline.com/ferry_port_transport_information.htmlDirections by Train

Swansea Railway Station is located approx. 1 mile from the Ferry Terminal in Swansea High Street. There is a regular bus service operating from the station to the ferry port. Taxis are available at most times on the station rank.

Mark Gleeson

19-04-2010, 11:51

http://www.fastnetline.com/ferry_port_transport_information.html

Bus available from the station

comcor

19-04-2010, 11:52

Thanks

Colm Moore

19-04-2010, 12:28

It seems to be an un-numbered service, but I've sent an e-mail to firstgroup.

ThomasJ

19-04-2010, 12:43

irish rail have now posted a news item highlighting the various uk and european rail options.

Eddie

19-04-2010, 12:57

The train from Holyhead to London now has to be booked in Holyhead. Big queues. You'll get on on eventually just probably not the one soon after you arrive.

Are you saying you have to buy separate train tickets from Holyhead? I'd say a walk-on fare is about £80 Holyhead to London without Rail Sail. And another £30 for the ferry.

The ferry and train companies have captive audience to demonstrate the advantages of their service all year round, not short term profiteering.

Thomas Ralph

19-04-2010, 14:03

Walk-up single from Holyhead to London or v/v is £127 for peak time (which appears to be trains arriving in London before 10am) and £75.80 otherwise. Off-peak return is £76.80. There are advance fares as low as £12 single on sale at the moment for travel tomorrow, although some of the timings are pretty grim.

Anyone under 26 should consider getting themselves a 16-25 Railcard (http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk) (issued on the spot at any staffed station on production of proof of age and a passport photo, and filling in a form which the station has). It's valid for a year and its 34% discount will get you back the price of the card if you spend over £76.50.

robdrysdale

19-04-2010, 14:08

Are you saying you have to buy separate train tickets from Holyhead? I'd say a walk-on fare is about £80 Holyhead to London without Rail Sail. And another £30 for the ferry.

The ferry and train companies have captive audience to demonstrate the advantages of their service all year round, not short term profiteering.

That's what was going on in Holyhead yesterday, yes.

ThomasJ

19-04-2010, 14:14

why holyhead though?

Can you get them at dublin port or british rail station?

Thomas Ralph

19-04-2010, 14:17

With creative ticketing it can be cheaper again, since the UK allows you to travel on multiple tickets for the one journey.

Thomas Ralph

19-04-2010, 14:18

why holyhead though?

Can you get them at dublin port or british rail station?

You cannot get British rail tickets at Dublin Port.

You can get them at British rail stations, for example Holyhead station.

ThomasJ

19-04-2010, 14:43

You cannot get British rail tickets at Dublin Port.

You can get them at British rail stations, for example Holyhead station.

But irish rail have been telling people to get their tickets down the port.

robdrysdale

19-04-2010, 15:12

But irish rail have been telling people to get their tickets down the port.

They mean sailrail (combined sail and rail ticket) but that's a special or discount ticket. Ferry companies are not selling specials due to current overloaded demand. sailrail is suspended to my knowledge. Hence you buy a ferry ticket, likely on standby, as ferries are fully booked. If you get on and when you get to other side you buy a rail ticket at ticket booth in Holyhead Ferry Terminal. You can't get on the train without a booked ticket. Even with sailirail you used to have to exchange voucher for a booked/reserved ticket on other side. At least that's what I had to do last year.

If you think you can do better then go and try. I've simply relayed my experiences in trying to get my wife home and what I had to do.

plant43

19-04-2010, 16:12

Rang Irish Ferries and they are not selling Sail and Rail tickets at the moment. I am led to believe that sales of these tickets have been suspended from UK rail stations too.

dowlingm

19-04-2010, 19:09

The ferry and train companies have captive audience to demonstrate the advantages of their service all year round, not short term profiteering.Let's be clear - the ferry companies are profiteering. The UK train companies might be profiteering. But I doubt IE is making much when it's running empty trains to Rosslare and back while delaying their normal schedule.

Dempsey should be on the phone with Lord Adonis figuring out how to bang heads together between the ferry and train companies on both sides of the Irish Sea - it's got to be easier than sending half of what little is left of the Royal Navy to the continent to pick folk up from there.

Thomas Ralph

19-04-2010, 21:06

The UK train operating companies probably aren't profiteering, insofar as it's not their fault if a vastly inflated number of people come up and buy walk-up tickets from London to Fishguard Harbour.

dowlingm

20-04-2010, 01:25

The UK train operating companies probably aren't profiteering, insofar as it's not their fault if a vastly inflated number of people come up and buy walk-up tickets from London to Fishguard Harbour.Fair enough - lazy construction on my part - but I bet they are profiting more than IE are.

Eddie

20-04-2010, 08:26

Rang Irish Ferries and they are not selling Sail and Rail tickets at the moment. I am led to believe that sales of these tickets have been suspended from UK rail stations too.

There's no suggestion on Stena's new "hgh volume" website front page that Rail and Sail is suspended.

In any case, I thought these were advertised as "all year round" fares". I don't think there's anything in the Rail and Sail literature which says they can be withdrawn at any time.

Thomas Ralph

20-04-2010, 08:46

Rail and Sail are still on sale for journeys commencing in the UK, maximum £30.50 for Holyhead-Dublin/Dun Laoghaire (with 7-day advance booking). Any enquiries I've made about tickets originating from Ireland have been given the run-around.

Mark Gleeson

20-04-2010, 08:51

Call Stena on 01 204 7744 quoting rail

There are quotas in place and since there is no integrated booking system you have to go direct via Stena to book.

The offer as always is subject to availability and turn up and go is suspended for foot passengers you must book. Foot passenger prices have not changed, but as we all know short notice tickets in the UK are shockingly expensive

ThomasJ

20-04-2010, 12:22

for reference this note is on the stena line sail and rail website
http://www.stenaline.ie/ferry/rail-and-sail/fishguard/

Special Notice: Irish Rail have delayed the last train departure at 17.55hrs from Rosslare Harbour to 18.45hrs departing to facilitate customers that wish to travel to Dublin. This arrangement will apply until further Notice. When checking in at Fishguard Harbour it would be very useful to mention to the Stena Line staff that you are travelling onward to Dublin, Waterford, Kilkenny etc. by public transport. This destination information will be passed on to Bus Eireann and Irish Rail in Rosslare Harbour to help them make their normal transfer arrangements.

dowlingm

20-04-2010, 13:04

That's good news.

Mark Gleeson

20-04-2010, 13:11

I have referred the breakdown of rail+sail ticketing to the European Passenger Federation in Brussels to ensure it is discussed at the highest level.

purplepanda

20-04-2010, 16:26

http://seat61.com/Ireland.htm

The online booking links suggested by seat61.com all refusing find any travel options via Paddington / Euston to Ireland. Virgin Trains online is the same.

Virgin automated phoneline just cuts you off, after asking for return fare to Dublin????:mad:

What a rip off!!:(

Thomas Ralph

21-04-2010, 08:20

There does not appear to be a single-ticket option for surface transport from London to Dublin at present.

Colm Moore

21-04-2010, 10:41

It seems to be an un-numbered service, but I've sent an e-mail to firstgroup.It looks like this is run by or on behalf of the ferry operator / port and not as part of the local bus service.

Re: Feedback from contact us‏
From: @firstgroup.com
Sent: 21 April 2010 10:24:34
To: Colm Moore

Dear Mr Moore

Thank you for your email. With regards to your enquiry, unfortunately we do not run any services to Queens Dock Ferry Terminal. Our Customer Services Manager recommends that you get hold of the ferry company to see if they have any transport organised.

If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

Kay

Eddie

21-04-2010, 13:30

I see that Stena have finally relented and now allow you to use the 2.30am Holyhead to Dublin Adventurer as a foot passenger.

grainne whale

21-04-2010, 13:58

www.raileasy.co.uk sells RailSail tickets and also book passage on the relevent ferry when required (usually prebooking only applies to the Irish Ferries "Swift" and Stena fast craft). They do charge a booking fee, and a credit card fee, but I believe they will post tickets (they certainly have a list of countries showing in the address field) On no condition go on this website, I now have a virus called ' Personal Security' that I nor I.T. at work can get rid of. It bypasses the normal security.

Colm Moore

21-04-2010, 14:26

I'm not seeing a problem (that said, I'm not using Windows). Are you certain that was the problem site and not another recently visited site, such tactics aren't unknown.

dowlingm

21-04-2010, 19:18

On no condition go on this website, I now have a virus called ' Personal Security' that I nor I.T. at work can get rid of. It bypasses the normal security.These fellas are usually on the ball
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-personal-security

Sealink

24-04-2010, 11:39

On no condition go on this website, I now have a virus called ' Personal Security' that I nor I.T. at work can get rid of. It bypasses the normal security.

I have used them lots of times, no idea where the virus comes from.

comcor

25-04-2010, 18:22

It looks like this is run by or on behalf of the ferry operator / port and not as part of the local bus service.

Having done the trip, I can confirm that the bus exists, but only because I saw it when it arrived when I was already at the ferry port. I took a taxi. 6.60, so it didn't exactly kill me.

The bus stop outside the train station in Swansea was out of action because of road works, but even so, there was no indication of where a bus to the ferry could be had.

On the plus side, the 223 bus from Ringaskiddy into Cork was pretty much at the end of the gangway at the other end.

It's actually not a bad trip if you exclude the getting from Swansea train station to Swansea ferry port.. About 70 quid for the one way from London to Cork. Leave London at 5:45pm. 3 hours on the train from Paddington. Onto the ferry, a few drinks in the bar and off to sleep in a cabin. You then wake up in Cork at 8am the next morning. While the travel seems long, you sleep through most of it.

dowlingm

25-04-2010, 18:48

There's also this service (http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=842&month=Mar), which was on BE's front page for a while recently.

TomB

30-04-2010, 13:12

I've been doing the boat+train option to London for a while now. For various reasons I think it's a far superior option to going cattle class on Ryanair. The service is also more popular than you'd think.

Given the volcanic ash debacle I thought it might be useful to put up some info about SailRail from an Irish perspective (I know the Seat61 page (http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm) is good but there are a few Ireland-specific things that he doesn't cover, and I don't agree with his recommended sailings), in case other people find it useful.

I'm on my way to London at the moment and I've done a quick gude to getting to London from Ireland by train and ferry (http://thomas.bibby.ie/sailrail), comments welcomed and appreciated.

If RUI would like to use the content on their own site (again, might be useful to other people), please feel free -- attribution not necessary but would be appreciated.

Mark Hennessy

30-04-2010, 16:11

Thats a nice guide!

Jister

12-05-2010, 21:35

Nice guide.

Is there any sail / rail option via Liverpool? I need to go over in the next month and I am mulling over boat or plane. The idea of night ferry with cabin seems to make sense as I don't need to waste a night in a hotel en route.

I am travelling from the Limerick area.

Mark Gleeson

12-05-2010, 22:59

Norfolk line are not part of Rail Sail currently

The over night dinner/cabin/breakfast deal is indeed very tempting

Eddie

21-05-2010, 16:35

i really think preassure needs to be put on stenaline to reintroduce the HSS now

Looks like its back early from 25 May according to the booking engine. Just once a day though.

ccos

21-05-2010, 18:59

Can rail and sail tickets be booked from Europe to Ireland, either direct or via the Uk?
Any links would be appreciated.

Mark Gleeson

21-05-2010, 19:27

Rail Sail applies only to UK-Ireland via either of the 3 crossing points with either Irish Ferries or Stena Line

Norfolk Line and others are not part of the Rail/Sail arrangement

ThomasJ

22-05-2010, 14:43

Can rail and sail tickets be booked from Europe to Ireland, either direct or via the Uk?
Any links would be appreciated.

Unfortunately not (afaik) the only one i am aware of is the stenaline harrich to hook of holland service and still you would require two seperate itineries! (ie amsterdam-london, london-dublin)

With this service you can buy tickets online on the uk stenaline website for sail&rail from any dutch station to london liverpoool street via the harrich-hook of holland ferry crossing
It is a seven and a half hour crossing. You have to pay more if you are taking the night sailings but bear in mind those night fares include a cabin on the sailing.
Still though you would have to buy a sail and rail ticket for london to dublin then at a london station!