View Full Version : Western rail corridor (WRC) - Capital Plan
https://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/minister-sean-kyne-td-western-rail-corridor-must-be-included-in-new-capital-plan/
Good to see that the Capital Plan includes rail infrastructure for the future. Existing rail infrastructure could not be put in place today because of cost so we should develop what we have inherited, connect it up and allow rail to be a part of Ireland's commitment to the 2030 UN Sustainable Development Goals.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/railing-against-threat-to-trains-36206695.html
CIE tend to run down a service firstly, making it unattractive then claim that the low passenger numbers show that it is a failed line and recommend closing. If the service and price was good rail would be used more often. In Europe at weekends there is often a half price offer to attract families and fill trains at off peak times.
ACustomer
09-10-2017, 19:59
Not the dreaded WRC again!. We have just had the opening of a €500 million stretch of Motorway right alongside the Ennis-Athenry route. This is at a time when Dublin's inadequate transport infrastructure arguably adds to Dublin's housing problems. I would spend money on DART underground (and not the mickey-mouse scaled back version proposed a couple of years ago).
Also Brexit will require reorientation of traffic away from UK ports as a way to Europe, and hence places like Rosslare should play a vital role, so we will need better links to the South-East, not the North West. (Sorry if this touches the F-word!)
Do we have a transport minister or is he too busy trying to be justice minister?
Inniskeen
10-10-2017, 07:41
I would be enthusiastic about DART underground if I I thought it would yield anything approaching the benefits claimed for it. Simply connecting the Docklands to Pearse station and sending all Maynooth and Newbridge trains to/via Docklands would be just as effective at a fraction of the cost. As for the WRC there are regional and strategic reasons to extend to Tuam and Claremorris. Galway in particular, is a rapidly growing city and would benefit from improved rail links.
I dont think that we should be exclusive in our thinking in that rail works best when well connected. I agree that Rosslare now becomes more important w Brexit but the NW would also benefit if Sligo, Tuam etc were linked via Limerick to Rosslare. Linking a line to the airport is well overdue whichever way it happens.
Mark Gleeson
10-10-2017, 14:40
WRC doesn't meet the financial case to be supported, it doesn't work with the cost benefit analysis. The cost to subside is way to much and the passenger numbers on the Ennis Athenry section today are driven mainly by aggressive fare discounting so the overall revenue isn't increasing as the yield is being sacrificed to make the passenger numbers look better.
Much better spend the money on Athenry Galway and close the rest, focus on actual demand and local development and keeping the distances reasonably short to maximise efficiency and to immediately make a clear statement that rural sprawl will not be rewarded, if you want a train live near major cities.
DART underground would result in a reduction in subsidy in Dublin due the economy of scale and volume, it actually can make a surplus
There isn't the population density to support the WRC and the last thing we want to do is to in any way to encourage people in Ennis to commute to Galway, or even worse Claremorris to Galway, thats a crazy idea and giving in to those kind of requests have massively increased costs in Dublin as places like Longford, Gorey Athlone which are 80 odd miles from Dublin are afforded commuter services which cost a fortune to operate.
Traincustomer
10-10-2017, 14:54
Much better spend the money on Athenry Galway and close the rest, .
As in close Ennis-Gort-Athenry or not reopen to Tuam etc...?
Ennis-Athenry is there so should be made a go of as should every other open line. It's not as if anything meaningful will be achieved by saving a few million and South Wexford is a recent example of that. The money will be dripped away elsewhere and closure savings are frankly token amounts in the grander scheme of things.
Exactly. Closure savings are negligible compared to what can be achieved elsewhere.
Maybe close one or both of Ardrahan or Craughwell as they are tiny and just slowing the service down. I'm not sure InterCity trains should be stopping at Oranmore or Sixmilebridge either, but the towns are worth serving, so in the absence of a local commuter service, there's not much alternative.
Longford, Gorey Athlone commuters.......
Whats the alternative...... to have everybody living in Dublin? There is a housing shortage in Dublin meaning those working and studying in the city have little option but to commute. Youth studying in Dublin appreciate the train service on an early Monday morning from these towns. The Limerick - Galway passenger figures have surpassed CIE expectations and indeed the same argument was trotted out when Knock airport was being developed that it was not viable yet it is providing a valuable service to the West today. Rail infrastructure around the country is invaluable in a country that is over dependent on road transport and against the UN sustainable development 2030 goals.
ACustomer
11-10-2017, 10:02
A few points:
Ennis-Athenry has new infrasctructure and the financial impact of closure would be relatively minor. North of Athenry is a totally different ball game, even ignoring low traffic levels. The very considerable capital costs are relevant to any decision, whereas the capital costs of Ennis-Athenry are sunk costs and therefore irrelevant. If I had to put in new investment, a few bob on a crossing loop at Sixmilebridge might not go astray.
Goods, you say Longford, Gorey Athlone commuters.......Whats the alternative...... to have everybody living in Dublin? Very long-distance commuting is in large measure a response to hopeless transport and planning decisions within 20 to 30 kms of Dublin. DART underground and other investments complementary to it would enhance the quality and quantity of commuting from a relatively small distance.
I propose a new variant of Boyle's law (remember, For a fixed amount of gas, pressure and volume are inversely proportional). This reads, for any railway project, the political pressure is inversely proportional to the likely volume of traffic.
Mark Gleeson
11-10-2017, 14:53
Lets get one thing very straight about numbers
Target was 250k Ennis Athenry, 125-140k is the best done so far, this is a fact. Adding in Galway Athenry and Ennis Limerick is a classic smokescreen to inflate the numbers
What is shocking is despite the 21st century infrastructure and automation its loss is still significant. Closing it doesn't really save much but it does save on the operating costs and requires minimal redundancies. Nenagh on the other hand what you are mainly saving is the future costs of major engineering works.
There is a huge question of efficiency, we cannot fund a frequent all day commuter service to Longford, Athlone, Gorey, its mostly carrying air around apart from some demand in morning and evening, folks then complain they have no late night service etc. If you choose to live 80 miles away then you will only get a basic service. Thats not sustainable development we are actually encouraging people to build cheap one off houses in Longford and to spend 2 hours each way on a train, its not a way to live.
Prior to the introduction of Longford Dublin it was Mullingar Dublin, 50 miles a reasonable cut off distance, there was a plan for a late evening post 9pm train, once the service got pushed out to Longford the evening train plan was scrapped as the numbers could no longer stack up.
[I]"What we have instead is a motorway plan which is not rooted in sound traffic management or sound financial management. That has been proven", and a plan estimated at €5.6 billion could now cost up to €20 billion.
Mr Sargent said that a trick employed by contractors had become systematic, where they put in a bid "low enough to get political support and once accepted the claims are maximised to ensure that the overrun is not 20 per cent over, which is the average internationally, but 86 per cent of the cost"
Its interesting how some stress the capital cost of rail development particularly in cases where the infrastructure such as the permanent way is already in place like the WRC. Such infrastructure could not be purchased today yet its in the states hands and can be developed at a fraction of the price of roads. In terms of rail we must have the foresight to project forward. But for the fact that the Harcourt line permanent way was maintained the likelihood of the Luas line to Ranelagh and beyond might never have happened. Maintain the option and plan for a future that certainly will not be based on petrol/diesel cars or trucks.
https://www.google.ge/search?q=western+rail+corridor+map&rlz=1C1CHWA_enIE609IE609&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=AK4VMLPjP6uY1M%253A%252C-N7jsBpdqT6pDM%252C_&usg=__scNHAfw3JvXtOIP1Ggcxk-AhOFU%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzgf68gO7WAhUDcRQKHZD6BmgQ9QEINzAC#imgr c=AK4VMLPjP6uY1M:
WRC has to be one of the best connected lines in the country intersecting with main line routes at Limerick, Athenry, Claremorris and Collooney. Athenry has just been named as the location for Apple info centre so having rail links will be an added attraction.
Mark Gleeson
13-10-2017, 20:06
Data centres look big, employ tiny numbers of people once built, could get by with less than 10 per shift
We can thank CIE for it since they laid a fibre optic cable along the WRC 15 years ago
Really grappling for straws here
Inniskeen
14-10-2017, 09:13
What Mark says about says Data Centres omits to include suppliers, outsourced support staff, building maintenance and others I can't immediately think of. The numbers employed in total may not be huge but there are other contributions including construction employment, support for renewable energy and conmercial rates. More importantly other employment and activity may follow in the area with obvious societal and region benefits.
As for the WRC, the case for completion may not be overwhelming but despite motorways Galway is a heavily congested city and both it and it's hinterland would benefit from improved regional rail links. The other key advantage of re-instating the Athenry to Galway line is that it would allow diversion of freight traffic destined for Waterford away from the Kildare bottleneck.
Thomas Morelli
14-10-2017, 10:34
Lets get one thing very straight about numbers
Target was 250k Ennis Athenry, 125-140k is the best done so far, this is a fact.
In what year were 125-140k journeys made?
Jamie2k9
14-10-2017, 12:08
As for the WRC, the case for completion may not be overwhelming but despite motorways Galway is a heavily congested city and both it and it's hinterland would benefit from improved regional rail links. The other key advantage of re-instating the Athenry to Galway line is that it would allow diversion of freight traffic destined for Waterford away from the Kildare bottleneck.
This is such a myth.
Yes divert via West of Ireland, and require 2 loco changes (?) and take just as long as current paths do. Not to mention the cost of manning Limerick J-Waterford to service the route combined with little spare capacity between Ennis-Limerick.
The current schedules were designed to cut costs and don't have much impact. It would be cheaper to return to the evening runs at a 23.30-00.00 arrival and avoid any congestion at Kildare.
Inniskeen
15-10-2017, 12:21
There is some capacity between Ennis and Limerick and more could be added relatively easily, if required.
Why would there be a requirement for two locomotive changes on freight trains routed via the WRC. I can see that there might be one change but two ????
Jamie2k9
15-10-2017, 13:30
There is some capacity between Ennis and Limerick and more could be added relatively easily, if required.
Why would there be a requirement for two locomotive changes on freight trains routed via the WRC. I can see that there might be one change but two ????
Wasn't sure of how the connection works at Athenry.
Whatever way people try to dress up the business case, spending millions to divert 6 return workings per week doesn't and will never stack up.
The project needs to be shelved, it would only for our unstable Goverment it's still been "talked" about. I can't see that changing if there is another election either.
The reason WRC is important is that this is not about today and the six trains you mention, this is about the future.
Going on that logic the Harcourt line in Dublin should have been built on and there would never have been a Luas because putting that type of infrastructure in place today would be impossible.
Brexit means Rosslare is more important and links to it by rail are a solution for the future. Ireland is obliged under UN sustainable goals 2030 to move away from car/truck petrol-diesel as all our fuel is imported. Electric trains will be the way to go. Dublin Cork line is too busy.
Jamie2k9
15-10-2017, 20:34
The reason WRC is important is that this is not about today and the six trains you mention, this is about the future.
Going on that logic the Harcourt line in Dublin should have been built on and there would never have been a Luas because putting that type of infrastructure in place today would be impossible.
Brexit means Rosslare is more important and links to it by rail are a solution for the future. Ireland is obliged under UN sustainable goals 2030 to move away from car/truck petrol-diesel as all our fuel is imported. Electric trains will be the way to go. Dublin Cork line is too busy.
Rubbish, the case can never be made for the line and the bulk of freight will still operate via the UK irregardless of Brexit and Rail Freight will never be substantial in Ireland.
Mark Gleeson
15-10-2017, 21:17
Any further mention of freight will result in thread lock
Colm Moore
19-10-2017, 23:32
the same argument was trotted out when Knock airport was being developed that it was not viable yet it is providing a valuable service to the West today.Knock killed both Galway and Sligo airports.
http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/0615-Richard-Logue.compressed.pdf
WRC is not about now its about a future Ireland. The reason we are so poor at planning in Ire is that we plan only within the 4yr term of a Govt whereas in more successful economies there is a long term planning process. Dublin is an example of the short term plan mess up. Hydrocarbon fuels are disappearing diesel will be a no go in 5yrs which is why electric rail will be an answer.
Inniskeen
26-10-2017, 07:04
I would imagine that you would save as much in addressing waste and inefficiecies on DART as in closing the WRC. You would have to imagine that Irish Rail have done a sweetheart deal on the price of electricity given the amount of empty space being dragged around - eight car trains are rarely required outside the morning and evening peak periods on monday to friday yet are to be found at other times rattling around with barely a hand full of passengers for most of the trip. Revenue protection on DART is none too hot either with some of the busiest stations in the country unmanned most of the time.
Unmanned stations and large lightly loaded trains increase the incidence of antisocial behaviour and vandalism which deters other passengers as well as generating expenditure on repairs.
Another inefficiency that has defied resolution for years is crew changing at Fairview which slows journeys and disrupts other services. What is the cost this represents in lost capacity ?
http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/0282-Western-Inter-County-Railway-Committee.compressed.pdf
Connectivity and future population growth are items that raise the importance of the invaluable infrastructure that is the Western Rail Corridor. A country with ready made infrastructure like WRC route has an advantage that should be exploited for the public good. Rail developments in the future will probably see single track systems that are lighter and less expensive to maintain which is why the WRC permanent way is so essential to open up
https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/63400/keeping-rail-right-track-uic/
"By 2050 it is expected that the majority of medium-distance passenger transport will be by rail". Thats the reason why the current generation should not make the same mistake as some of the previous political generation in IRE in dismantling rail infrastructure. The ideas that are coming for rail in the future are lighter and greener but having the permanent way in place is a huge advantage which in IRE is already the case like the Western Rail Corridor.
Thomas Morelli
11-12-2017, 21:49
Does anyone know if other European countries have railways to specifically link together cities that are the sizes of Limerick and Galway?
Many examples of rail connections to similar cities in Portugal which like the Galway Limerick example is a coastal West European area.
Thomas Morelli
12-12-2017, 18:10
Many examples of rail connections to similar cities in Portugal which like the Galway Limerick example is a coastal West European area.
Which cities are they?
ACustomer
12-12-2017, 18:13
Goods: you are wrong about Portugal. Like Ireland, and with roughly twice the population in a similar area, the Portuguese rail network is almost entirely focused on lines radiating from the capital, and also from Porto. Where services exist between provincial cities of comparable size to Limerick and Galway (50,000+) they are generally on part of an intercity route, e.g. between Coimbra and Aveiro on the Lisbon-Porto main line. South of the Tagus river, the main cities of Faro, Evora, and Beja are all linked to Lisbon by rail, but direct connections are between them are virtually non-existent. I could go on...
What we can learn from the Portuguese is (a) their impressive electrification of most main lines, (b) their big investment in suburban services around the two main cities and (c ) the Porto metro which is like a souped-up version of LUAS and crucially uses tunnels in the city centre (thus avoiding any College Green debacle).
Thomas Morelli
12-12-2017, 20:49
Like Ireland, and with roughly twice the population in a similar area, the Portuguese rail network is almost entirely focused on lines radiating from the capital, and also from Porto. Where services exist between provincial cities of comparable size to Limerick and Galway (50,000+) they are generally on part of an intercity route, e.g. between Coimbra and Aveiro on the Lisbon-Porto main line. South of the Tagus river, the main cities of Faro, Evora, and Beja are all linked to Lisbon by rail, but direct connections are between them are virtually non-existent.
So, does this mean that a railway linking only a city with 100, 000 people with one that has 80, 000 is not something other European countries have?
ACustomer
12-12-2017, 21:59
I don't know what about other European countries. The question was asked about Portugal versus the WRC, and I thought I answered it.
Not wanting to get sidetracked, but there is definitely a train from Faro to Lagos as I have used it.
In many ways, it has a lot in common with the WRC. The service is infrequent and it's slower than traveling by bus.
ACustomer
13-12-2017, 09:40
Comcor. I agree let's not get side-tracked, but the line you mention runs along a heavily-populated coastal strip linking several large towns (Lagos, Portimao, Faro, Olhao, Tavira and Vila Real de Santo Antonio). There is no analogy with some big investment to link Limerick and Galway and the line has loads of small halts which probably account for a large proportion of its traffic.
Looking at other countries from which to draw a lesson for Ireland can be a difficult business.
Rail census 2014 has the data on usage though the Galway Limerick data was fairly new at that point. To my knowledge the usage has passed the estimate given before it opened. The key point is that a line like this attracts other development and helps a region grow. Dublin is growing out of proportion and the West is stagnating so such a rail line can be a multiplier. Rail is about the long term which is why it is going through a revival all over Europe except in IRE.
Thomas Morelli
19-12-2017, 18:51
Is the recently opened motorway likely to have a significant detriment on the usage of Ennis to Athenry?
According to Google Maps, the journey times by car have only dropped by around 5 minutes, and Citylink had already been operating express bus services from Galway to Limerick(and on to Cork) before this motorway opened, and when I consider these points, I am unsure whether the motorway is going to make the trains as good as empty or not.
http://ec.europa.eu/research/press/jti/factsheet_s2r-web.pdf
Rail is the longer term option that Ireland will eventually follow as is happening in the rest of Europe. The road building lobby in Ireland is sufficiently powerful still to ensure that the bulk of investment goes into roads which is why ther is an imbalance. This is the reason that you have high rise car parks at Dublin airport without a rail connection even though when the M50 was being developed it would have been easy to run a spur from either the Belfast line or the Sligo line. The western rail corridor is a vital piece of infrastructure that is owned by the state which could never be put in place today and should be developed to reconnect the west particularly to Rosslare port. Rail links to our ports have been gradually severed, the truck lobby was more influential.
Today rail links are operating from Europe to China making that option faster that the sea routes on the One Belt One Road corridors. This is the future.
https://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2018/02/22/editorial-from-the-western-people-fighting-for-what-matters/
Well timed piece about the fallacy of tearing up rail lines and what preserving them meant to places like Ballina and Westport. The lines are a bridge to the west that otherwise will not be there. Cycle lanes are great but the people in rural Ireland need connectivity and industry so that the place doesnt turn into a nature reserve in the future.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/varadkar-move-blocked-funding-for-western-rail-corridor-1.3450236
Western elected politicians were asleep at the wheel not to be able to promote the western rail corridor when this was part of EU long term thinking. Action to obstruct the development of the rail corridor was short termism and failed to recognize the strategic value of this rail connection along the western corridor at a time when Rosslare will become an important export hub after Brexit. Having an alternative route by rail to Rosslare is an important future option for rail development supported by EU
Huge increase in rail traffic according to Irish Examiner article in the past year indicating that ppl will drop the car if an alternative is available. Time to begin to reopen the like of WRC to Limerick and further south like Rosslare and Cork to take pressure off mainline and improve connectivity. Use the infrastructure that the ppl have paid for over years.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-reviewing-extension-for-western-rail-corrider-1.3598691
Government acting sensibly and strategically by looking at the advantages a rail corridor along the western route can provide to the entire country and not just the west. Such an artery to southern ports via Limerick will open up options for travel and freight and relieve the overused mainline from Dublin to Cork. This is about connectivity and access. Greenways are great but should not be provided at the expense of a rail corridor that could never be put in place today with all its infrastructure and right of way.
Mark Gleeson
20-08-2018, 11:00
This is a passenger ONLY forum
Further discussion of freight will result in a ban
Maybe I have not seen that restriction during my time so far.I based my point on the title of the website which is “rail users” which I assumed meant those that use rail because in most countries rail has many purposes. If your point is to remove discussion on the relevance of Western Rail Corridor then I see it as an effective way of closing down discussion and I wonder why is that the case?
James Shields
21-08-2018, 09:38
I think threatening bans is a little harsh. Railfreight has been discussed before in other threads without any such threats.
Thx James for your supportive words I also thought is was strange on a medium that discusses rail matters it’s about the retention of National infrastructure put in place over a century ago and now invaluable in terms of what it can offer the country. In future decades there will be high speed monorail systems and its only the permanent way that will be important to give the route.
Inniskeen
21-08-2018, 20:05
This is a passenger ONLY forum
Further discussion of freight will result in a ban
Pretty much the same approach as Irish Rail !
A very solid point that baffles many in fairness the lobby against using rail to its full potential has been quite successful and has been led by Irish rail themselves and vested interests
ACustomer
22-08-2018, 08:53
I normally disagree with Goods on specific issues. However railway infrastructure cannot be neatly partitioned into Passenger or Freight. The viability of a rail line is surely related to the total amount of traffic (and hence revenue) generated. A line could be hopelessly unviable if confined to either Freight of Passengers but viable if it carried both. For example the South Wexford line became a basket case once the Freight went a few years ago, so the passenger service became unsustainable.
Unfortunately Freight is now so marginal in Ireland that this point tends to be lost, but looking to the longer term future and the increased need for really energy efficient transport, then the overall importance of railways for long-distance traffic of all kinds could be much greater than it is now.
I read today that Knock Airport is now serving 800k passengers and I remember at the time it was being built clever economists and other cynics belittling the notion of an airport on a foggy boggy hill in Mayo. Yet the grounded Canon Horan knew better and persevered and built the airport providing accessibility and competing with the Dublin metropolis. Western Rail Corridor has many of the same critics who do not envisage a future when public transport will be more in demand and what such key infrastructure could do to reconnect the west.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_Eurostat/status/1036870875604287488/photo/1
Worse than we imagined any wonder that rail infrastructure is lying idle and solutions like Glasnevin junction have never been tackled. Clueless
https://connachttribune.ie/taoiseach-may-back-rail-link-reopening-690/
It looks as if someone is starting to listen and politicians start to think long term. This is a national asset and critical transport for 21st century connectivity. Connect west and south and breathe life into static communities with rail and new thinking - just do it!
Inniskeen
06-09-2018, 19:08
Oh dear, some people won't see increasing usage of the WRC as good news !
According to the Connacht Tribune the WRC stats on passenger journeys has far surpassed the initial Irish Rail estimates confirming that despite the D4 cycnics the demand is real. Reopen the remainder of this great rail corridor and allow it to make a difference and prove the experts wrong again
For a lot of us, the concern is how meaningful the figures are.
The number includes passengers from Ennis to Limerick (always healthy enough) and Athenry to Galway (probably benefitting from improved frequency and the reopening of Oranmore), but there’s still a massive question mark over numbers between Ennis and Athenry, which is where the funding went.
Any reopening is competing for resources with other rail projects, like Waterford-Rosslare (with usable services), Athlone-Mullingar and Midleton-Youghal. The fact there’s a big motorway to Tuam must have seriously damaged its chances.
I can’t vouch for different figures on different parts of the line though I feel that point could be made for any line I think it’s fair to say there is an increasing demand.
I’m not sure if Athlone Mullingar is being considered but I think that the WRC has so much to offer as an alternative route to ports in the south as Brexit looms and as the mainline Dub-Cork route is choked up
James Howard
07-09-2018, 17:24
If we're talking about connecting ports in the south as a Brexit insurance policy, surely Waterford to Rosslare would be of far higher priority than the WRC. In particular if the Barrow bridge is left to decay, it will become pretty much impossible to reopen Waterford to Rosslare even if there was a will to do so.
I don't think think any of Waterford - Rosslare, Athlone - Mullingar and Middleton - Youghal are under any consideration anywhere other than on on-line forums. All three would probably stack up better as a business case than the WRC yet for some reason the latter has remained on the news agenda for the best part of 20 years.
Agree completely with you about the bad decision to shut Waterford Rosslare which is an example of Irish Rail fragmented thinking. In both France and UK lines to ports continue despite the rise in car ferry travel. Bikers and hikers are regularly disembarking in Rosslare and then what?
On WRC what makes that line different from the others you mention is it’s connectivity with other mainlines - Sligo line, Westport, Galway and Limerick three of our top cities and one of our leading tourist destinations all connected via WRC.
West ofIreland TDs bar a few stalwarts like Sean Canney in Galway are more interested in the next election that long term planning for the west.
Knock Airport would never have been the solution it is today if it relied on short-termism of today’s TDs. They should band together and do something strategic for a change
"The revenues from operations came about as a 45.5m passenger journeys were made across Dart, Commuter and Intercity network matching the company's highest ever passenger numbers in 2007" - Irish Rail annual report.
Rreceipts from Public Service Obligations (PSO) increased from €110.64m to €114.779m while other exchequer funding fell from €112.58m to €95.98m.
We are decreasing funding to rail at a time when the country is taking in billions in tax and simultaneously preventing the network develop to its full potential by keeping lines like WRC idle instead of increasing connectivity. The demand is there provide the service. 95m in funding to a system that is giving service to 45m people thats 2 euro per passenger. Look at what a department like Justice costs - about 2 billion!
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/irishrail_28febfinal_part21.pdf
The problem there is that the Athenry-Tuam motorway has completely blown Tuam's score to pieces. Where it had 100 for lack of road competition, that is now a 0. It's score is now a rather mid-table 41.
I was always perplexed by using scores from Gateways and Hubs from the National Spatial Strategy in this as well, seeing that the designation was rather arbitrary and more suited to help local politicians in 2002 than actually develop a strategy (I mean, why was Tuam, then population 7,200 and 34km from the nearest Gateway a hub, while Navan then population 19,400 and 48km from the nearest Gateway not a hub). The assessment criteria should simply have been town population.
Bus competition was perceived as a negative, when in fact it demonstrated the demand for public transport on a route. This actually worked against the Athenry-Tuam section of the WRC though, although it made the figures look way better further north.
http://www.mayonews.ie/news/32491-concrete-action-needed-on-western-rail-corridor-campaigner
The case for reopening is solid its about taking the initiative - like Knock airport long ago
http://www.mayonews.ie/news/32491-concrete-action-needed-on-western-rail-corridor-campaigner
The absence of any real political backing for the reopening of the rail line to Claremorris in the west usually implies that local vested interests have knobbled the voice of the politician. The rail corridor is a national asset regardless if it competes against local transport interests. IE has signed up to 2030 UN Global cimate change goals that it cannot meet if we remain wedded to the car. Projects like WRC can contribute to the change including removing cars from commuting to Galway. Now is the time to mobilise not the day before an election.
https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/09/06/4161549-taoiseach-puts-weight-behind-western-rail-corridor-to-claremorris/
Much talk about climate change initiatives and regenerating towns in the west there are few more concrete examples of how to create connectivity and business that to reopen this artery through the country that links to about 5 other main lines including to Sligo, Castlebar, Ballina, Galway and Limerick
https://sligonewsfile.com/news-item/a-fully-re-instated-western-rail-corridor-from-limerick-to-sligo-would-open-up-the-far-too-long-neglected-west-says-rail-on-tracks-peter-bowen-walsh/
A FULLY REINSTATED WESTERN RAIL CORRIDOR FROM LIMERICK TO SLIGO WOULD OPEN UP THE FAR TOO LONG NEGLECTED WEST
"Great credit is due to the people behind West=on=Track who have tirelessly fought to have the disused Collooney Claremorris track brought back into service as a fully functioning railway, people such as sociologist Fr. Micheal MacGreil, Colman O’Raghallaigh and, in Collooney, Peter Bowen Walsh. Detractors have pointed to costs, they have pointed to the community rebuilding role the revived service could play in linking the North West to the South and the dividend it would return both as passenger service and freight transportation operation linking towns and villages dying for want of essential transport infrastructure". No political vision on this critical transport issue.
https://connachttribune.ie/rail-corridor-analysis-wont-be-completed-for-at-least-another-year-110/
Sacrificing the western rail corridor permanent way for a greenway is an example of IE short term thinking. This is a piece of critical national transport infrastructure that has been kept in tact since the 1970s and vested interests want to kill off the reopening option by converting the rail bed to a greenway. This is the type of rail infrastructure that could breathe life into the west and regenerate communities like Castlerea and Tuam and even Sligo. The anti rail lobby is alive and well on this topic for own gain. Pushing the decision to a consultants report is another political opt out in doing the right think by the country.
Surprisingly, for once I agree with you.
Once Greenways have been built, rail will never run again, even if there are significant demographic changes (imagine if a successful multi-national saw Sligo’s population swell).
The same applies to other proposed Greenway projects like Midleton-Youghal and Rosslare-Waterford.
If the line is in a state where reopening is possible (and let’s face it Rosslare-Waterford could be reopened tomorrow), a Greenway shouldn’t be considered.
I also wonder if the tourism benefits are overstated. Authorities look at the Greenways in Westport and Dungarvan with envious eyes, but the unsuccessful one from Rathkeale to Abbeyfeale goes unnoticed. The first two are in very scenic areas; the latter covers unremarkable farmland.
Anyway, most cyclists I know would prefer to see the money go into urban cycling infrastructure.
Yes it’s good to agree once in awhile.
Waterford ROSSLARE closing is baffling at a time when the ferry port is being upgraded. A direct connection to a city likeWaterford opens up many options for connecting passengers. Maybe the downgrade has something to do with little container traffic.
Agree that once a greenway replaces the track that’s the end of the future rail option despite the CIE promises.
https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2019/04/12/4172523-western-rail-corridor-review-from-claremorris-to-athenry/
EY-DKM consultants appointment to review western rail corridor Athenry-Claremorris and about time to extend the railway northwards after the outright success of the Limerick- Athenry section
https://www.seancanney.com/freight-increase-boosts-case-for-western-rail-corridor/
The case for reopening Western rail corridor is linked to the carbon emissions problem that is coming down the tracks in Ireland we are going to face international fines. Rail is a concrete solution to remove traffic from roads including freight.
ACustomer
05-06-2019, 19:29
Irish Rail website to-day (June 5th, 2019) has notice of a consultation process on possible extension of the WRC to (i) Athenty-Tuam and (ii) Tuam-Claremorris. It appears to be done in conjunction with the Department of Transport. No mention of the NTA. Strange why an operating company should have a role in this and not the National Transport Authority.
See: http://www.irishrail.ie/news/wrc-consultation
This bears out all the suspicions I have about the chaotic governance structures for public transport in Ireland.
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/wrc-consultation?fbclid=IwAR1KycfLBydXV3CCLwb47-Uxr6isAIWm4WvYslWRG9NS7RI4ZzPQT5BDBOM
Public consultation on western rail corridor
ACustomer
06-06-2019, 14:43
Maybe the reason why the consultation does not seem to involve the NTA is that it has been done to placate WRC lobbyists; hence the "political" (DoT) origin of the exercise.
I would hope that the NTA has a well-researched list of projects which would meet really urgent needs, starting with easing bottlenecks which limit system capacity.
I agree there are many priorities and bottle necks though there were many naysayers when phase 1 of WRC was reopened and data has shown that passenger numbers have surpassed what Irish rail had estimated before the line reopened.
The WRC is a piece of national rail infrastructure which would provide a fantastic rail option in the west and link south and north via WRC.
Rail projects should not be limited to Dublin only though I accept that it’s time to link Navan by rail to Dublin.
https://fleet.ie/western-rail-corridor-passenger-numbers-continue-to-increase/
Jamie2k9
09-06-2019, 11:34
Ennis to Athenry was one of slowest growing routes in 2018. Ennis-Limerick numbers is not part of the WRC.
Limerick-Ballybrophy grew almost four times faster in % terms during 2018.
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/National_Heavy_Rail_2018_V8_Web.pdf
I think the data on the Limerick - Galway route speaks for itself in terms of usage.
If you take a section of any route such as Mallow to Thurles or Banteer to Killarney the figures will be low the numbers using the service is the key and thousands are using the WRC phase 1 who would otherwise be traveling by road so the service is necessary. People is the west should have train services that are useful also. It’s about connectivity and using rail options for the future such as hydrogen and electric.
No surprise that the population down the country are a second thought in terms of transport which is probably why western Rail Corridor has so little central political support.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/transport-investment-in-the-east-comes-at-detriment-of-other-regions-report-finds-937586.html
dowlingm
21-07-2019, 14:30
The balancing of Dublin's growth can come from strengthening western and southern urban centres, but Athenry-Claremorris is the middle or end of that process, not the beginning.
Athlone-Mullingar got greenwayed despite being materially more significant infrastructure than Tuam-Claremorris.
M3-Navan can't get done,
Youghal-Midleton can't,
Tivoli/Blarney/Blackpool can't, (Blackpool plan won a planning award ELEVEN YEARS AGO (https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-suburban-rail-project-wins-irish-planning-award-56701.html))
no passing loop at Sixmilebridge,
Killonan-Limerick Junction, Portarlington-Athlone, Athlone-Galway and Maynooth-Mullingar still mostly single track,
Waterford-Limerick Junction with loops lifted and an awkward terminus at both ends, plus ancient signalling and manual crossings (see also Nenagh branch)
I would do something about all of those *before* I would touch the Tuam route. Why not fill B&B beds with leisure trippers in the meantime?
Meanwhile Ireland is staring down the barrel of no-deal Brexit and the possibility of having to create from very little resources and less time a railfreight capability from Dublin Port to Belfast as some kind of help to the catastrophe a road border regime would create.
The fact, Goods, that you can link to article after article (and growth rates of trains operating in low double digit loads) does not indicate the likely success of such a venture. It only demonstrates the truth of the old saying "(local) paper never refused ink"
I agree that there are many rail priorities that have gathered dust over time probably the most inexplicable one is failing to extend the railway to Navan from M3 as was the intention.
Railways are more than just about the star performing lines they are also about transport infrastructure in the society that lead to future development and economic options. Knock Airport was rubbished often in the initial phase yet today it relieves traffic from the west going to a clogged Dublin everyday.
Galway is looking for solutions to deal with traffic gridlock, the railway link to Tuam is an option - the link to Limerick is a success already.
You rightly mention Brexit , the WRC is a north South option that could relieve the overused mainline south from Dublin and give access to Rosslare and Waterford ports for the future.
Railway is a transport solution that will become more important why not use infrastructure that is already in place and owned by the state. I take your point on different priorities whoever sets them
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/i-ll-never-travel-on-irish-rail-again-1.3994455
Overcrowding on trains from the west today reinforce the point that rail will be used if the service is available. The counter argument is often made that we dont have the population for railways in IE. This is not the case, rail is the future but is currently run in a minimalist way and development like doubling track in places rarely happens.
I have used the network on all Ireland days and it was thronged yet IR say that "demand was unanticipated" this cant be the case as they have the data.
It looks as if the system is under strain but this should not happen if planning was in place to meet growing demand.
James Howard
23-08-2019, 06:51
It is basically impossible to provide seats for everyone on all-Ireland day at a reasonable cost. It's not like 20 years ago when they could haul out some battered old cravens that were only used once or twice a year.
The regular daily overcrowding is a different issue entirely but the example of all-Ireland day isn't particularly helpful since you can't meet that demand at any kind of reasonable cost.
Mark Gleeson
23-08-2019, 11:01
Up until the early 1990's there basically was a skeleton service on Sundays until the late afternoon, no suburban services at all. It was fairly easy to find a few trains spare to run extra services, even though at times this led to cancellations. Now trains are busy 7 days a week and there is limited scope.
There were massive complaints of overcrowding back then, anti social behavior, trains damaged. Irish Rail are not keen on Dublin football away games after getting a train completely trashed in the mid 1990's.
One of the major improvements Irish Rail made was enforcing a reservation only policy on extra trains
Anyone who shows on on all Ireland Sunday without a reservation is either going to stand or will be left behind, no sympathy.
Jamie2k9
23-08-2019, 11:41
They did say the 07.50 last Sunday was reduced from 5 to 4 car after a train failure.
The 09.45 has had many issues since introduced, victim of its own success!
Tricky to resolve unless they make extra capacity available on 14.45. They need to run non stop from Athlone.
ACustomer
24-08-2019, 10:18
I was surprised to see a discussion of overcrowding on a Westport-Dublin train appearing on the WRC thread.
Leaving that aside, I have just read the 2 Irish Times pieces (Friday Aug 23) on overcrowding. They refer to experiences on one service, the 0945 from Westport. Loads of human-interest stuff but no attempt to find out whether severe overcrowding was rare, occasional, or typical. Also one might think that before a journalist went on with the "why don't they put on more carriages?" thing, that they might inform themselves about the nature of modern trains, which are multiple units and cost millions and you just can't magic up an ould carriage and hook in on.
Of course the real reason for the overcrowding is the chronic inability of Shane Ross, the NTA, The Dept of Transport and no doubt other bodies to make investment decisions and actually implement them.
Yes I think that the lesson is that we should not be continuously surprised by such an event it’s down to absence of analysis and planning using the data that must be available to predict when there is demand.
For decades we have been told by the Dublin set that IE is too small for a train service and that the branch lines are uneconomic yet now we see that demand cannot be met.
If the service is provided it will be used and I agree that from certain stations like Athlone non stop trains are needed.
I’m aware that the argument will be made that traffic near Dublin is too high and capacity restricted which brings me to the option of opening Athlone - Mullingar route to Dublin and providing other north south options like WRC.
There is a need to think outside the box rather than the add on another carriage solution!
ACustomer
24-08-2019, 16:51
The key is to identify the constraints to service improvements. Before you can make much use of extra rolling stock, you have to tackle track capacity. For Galway/Mayo services the Athlone-Portarlington section is critical. Doubling even over a limited part of the line would enable significant service improvements. No hint that this is on any official radar screen however.
Jamie2k9
25-08-2019, 15:23
Yes I think that the lesson is that we should not be continuously surprised by such an event it’s down to absence of analysis and planning using the data that must be available to predict when there is demand.
For decades we have been told by the Dublin set that IE is too small for a train service and that the branch lines are uneconomic yet now we see that demand cannot be met.
If the service is provided it will be used and I agree that from certain stations like Athlone non stop trains are needed.
I’m aware that the argument will be made that traffic near Dublin is too high and capacity restricted which brings me to the option of opening Athlone - Mullingar route to Dublin and providing other north south options like WRC.
There is a need to think outside the box rather than the add on another carriage solution!
It justified the case for IE to manage and invest in what they have before wasting money on WRC that will deliver a lower ROI.
The key is to identify the constraints to service improvements. Before you can make much use of extra rolling stock, you have to tackle track capacity. For Galway/Mayo services the Athlone-Portarlington section is critical. Doubling even over a limited part of the line would enable significant service improvements. No hint that this is on any official radar screen however.
The CEO made reference to double tracking that section not long ago. Its on there radar but not happening anytime soon.
ACustomer
25-08-2019, 15:46
If a CEO has identified a capital project which looks necessary or promising, how long does it take for this to get translated into actual investment activity?
I have a feeling that for a large private sector company like CRH, one would see action within a year and completion within 3 or 4 years. With public transport in Ireland, substitute decades for years.
As the saying goes, it's no way to run a railroad.
Jamie2k9
25-08-2019, 16:12
It was actually the whole Galway route. It might get to design/planning in maybe 10-15 years.
They will probably fail to deliver electrification in GDA never mind anything outside it. Just look at the mess both IE, NTA and Dep of Transport have made of rolling stock. Wasting months and months and delivering nothing apart from presentation on what they plan to do. Almost 3 years considering 41 ICR coaches and still no official order. Depending who you believe they will be at least 9 months late entering service (late 2021) and that was an estimate months ago. Who knows when they will start service.
dowlingm
25-08-2019, 19:18
All the carry on about Ennis-Collooney and money spent on tarmacing a swathe of Ardrahan while Athlone-Mullingar went with barely a whimper. I fancy the latter will be regretted more in the long run - and not merely to avoid improving Athlone-Portarlington.
Essentially we are arguing the same point that the railway system could be much better and meet the obvious demand with investment. A set of priorities is required to be decided by policy makers and then a plan implemented. That plan should not exclude services to rural Ireland as we have seen lately the Westport line cannot meet the demand and trains from Longford in the mornings are uncomfortably full by Maynooth when the commuter stops begin.
Doubling of certain track, electrification and added carriages are part of the solution as is looking at other options like a new north south route WRC or using Athlone Mullinagar line option into Dublin for some west trains.
It would be great to know what the usage for point to point on exiting non-radial services are.
Are passengers just connecting from a Dublin service or is there significant traffic on the line itself.
We can’t extract that from the rail census, but I assume Irish Rail have some idea from ticket sales.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/iarnrod-eireann-has-11m-deficit-as-user-numbers-rise-938937.html
The data shows the extent that there is demand for rail service in IE yet the system is struggling to respond with the result that trains are crowded and there is little sign of expanding the network in places like Navan, or doubling track on lines such as to Mullingar or Tullamore. Irish Rail work on the basis of limiting the service rather than allowing it grow
https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dart-commuters-told-to-avoid-morning-rush-hour-952384.html?__twitter_impression=true
Demand for commuter rail has never been as high and instead of investment in double track and higher frequency IR trying to reduce peak time numbers. Has to be a better way!
berneyarms
23-09-2019, 06:46
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/iarnrod-eireann-has-11m-deficit-as-user-numbers-rise-938937.html
The data shows the extent that there is demand for rail service in IE yet the system is struggling to respond with the result that trains are crowded and there is little sign of expanding the network in places like Navan, or doubling track on lines such as to Mullingar or Tullamore. Irish Rail work on the basis of limiting the service rather than allowing it grow
https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dart-commuters-told-to-avoid-morning-rush-hour-952384.html?__twitter_impression=true
Demand for commuter rail has never been as high and instead of investment in double track and higher frequency IR trying to reduce peak time numbers. Has to be a better way!
You do realise that IE are constrained in what they can and cannot do by what funding they receive from the government via the NTA.
Almost everything you’re blaming them on requires capital funding from government/NTA and they have dithered on that for years, especially on the rolling stock side.
Unless people make enough of a fuss about it to their TDs then things aren’t going to change. Public transport investment is always long term and that doesn’t fit into the political cycle unfortunately.
Agree completely capital funding is a gap though I think IR planning is faulty as we seem to suddenly realise that demand has increased despite the graph going up for years. Irish Rail board is a politically selected group so the Board ensures that there is no bad news for the serving govt and vested interests are not threatened. Look at the way that bus services competes with the train instead of one backing up the gaps in the other. See how Rosslare Harbour is being run down in terms of rail service and look at the way Waterford port has been run down in terms of rail freight links. The railways are idle at night so freight can move without congestion but the road freight business prefers to obstruct rail freight. Using the railways more effectively will reduce the overheads and contribute to capital budget. Doublin of track eg to Mullingar would increase commuter frequency of trains instead of turning customers away at peak time. Not including a rail link to the airport when the M50 was built was good for the car park business at the airport.
https://www.handling-network.com/tracking-irish-railfreight/
Ballina leading the way in IWT trains. If WRC was in place a link between Ballina and Cork or Rosslare would open many options for rail use
Unfortunately, the container terminal in Cork is moving from Tivoli to Ringaskiddy and will not be rail connected (of course the plan is to build a new motorway there right through the middle of a suburban area, but road funding is how things work in this country). There's no great prospect of a rail connection either as the options would be very expensive, with either a new rail line right through the suburbs of Cork (major CPOs so expensive) or an underwater tunnel from the Cobh line so incredibly expensive from an engineering perspective).
For me, Belview is the obvious connection point if there is to be a rail/port connection on the south coast. It can handle containers already (unlike Rosslare) and is properly rail connected (unlike Cork).
I doubt freight makes the case for the WRC though. There's no great benefit in shipping rail freight fast as we don't move time-sensitive goods over the rail network (and this is the case in countries with much more elaborate rail freight). While there is a case for freight trains avoiding the Dublin area because of disruption to existing services, there's no major issue with going Ballina-Athlone-Athenry-Limerick-Belview on the current network, with no capital investment required. If the WRC is reopened, it will need to stand on projected passenger numbers.
Very fair points and I agree that eliminating rail freight link to Cork under the new plan is not good planning at a time when IE is trying to reduce its carbon footprint.
I hadn’t realised that Ballina Athlone Limerick was an option that works.
There seems to be an intentional strategy over a number of years in breaking the rail link to our ports. This is happening in Cork, Belview recently, Rosslare seems to have been cut to the quayside and Foynes. Having an alternative north south route that avoids the congested mainly Dub - Cork line is a future good plan.
ACustomer
26-11-2019, 17:04
Ballina-Cork via Athlone, Athenry and Linerick "works", but there are 2 reversals/runarounds necessary (Athlone and Limerick). Via Athlone and Portarlington there is only one reversal (at Port). Both routes involve single lines which are congested in daytime (Limerick to L Junction and Athlone to Portarlington).
The route via Limerick may also have a problem with some short passing loops, as freight trains would have at least 18 40-foot container flats. The main Dublin-Cork route is not congested south of Portlaoise: again one might need somewhat longer loops for freight trains being overtaken at Portlaoise, Ballybrophy, Thurles and Charleville. These would not be really major works: problably not much more than the cost of a printer in Leinster House for each loop.
Very informative I had thought that Dub -Cork was congested the whole way. The real success for freight would be like in Europe where many movements would take place during off peak times and at night. It seems expensive maintaining railways if they are not used as often as possible.
I have seen very long freight trains moving quite slowly at night in Italy and Switzerland where the train takes an age to pass the gate crossing.
Having so much container traffic heading into Dublin port in the centre of the city seems a waste when there are other ports that are not as congested and are rail connected like Belview and Cork and maybe in the future Foynes.
Western rail corridor is a future option not just for passenger traffic but could be a game changer in terms of contributing to carbon reduction
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/National_Heavy_Rail_2019_FA_ONLINE.pdf
https://connachttribune.ie/western-rail-corridor-users-up-according-to-irish-rail/?fbclid=IwAR0fPItMsWac-QG1XgxZHeezSOcac3zarL7M5ZF8dUlO-ujeQfluUPxlkMs
Naysayers and economists resisted the reopening of the Limerick-Athenry railway line yet the public persisted and demanded a service that was obviously necessary. The growth has been real. The same will apply to reopening the remainder of the line to Sligo, reconnecting hidden parts of the west and running a railway adjacent to the Atlantic corridor. Connect cities in the west and create a north south route to reinforce the Cork Dublin route and link the west to Waterford and Rosslare port by rail.
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