NTA Fare Determinations for 2017

[Jamie2k9]

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/no-fare-increase-for-75-of-public-transport-users-in-2017/

Key Points
1 - No increase for 75% (3 in 4 passengers)
2 - 50% cut for Sallins/Nass & Kilcock passengers (Leap Extended)

IE Specific:
1 - No change to Intercity single and return fares
2 - Intercity adult and child weekly up 2%
3 - Sallins/Naas and Kilcock stations to relocate from intercity zone into the Dublin Short Hop Zone resulting in savings for commuters of almost 50%
4 = Adjust ODs (Origin –Destinations) zones for 261 ODs out of 1,200 ODs in 5 - Dublin Short Hop Zone (SHZ) to reflect a more consistent distance based pricing structure. This will result in the fares for 226 SHZ journeys being reduced by 16-18%, and 36 being increased by 16-18%.
6 - No increase in basic SHZ fares except 3 individual all-zone fares
7 - SHZ and intercity Taxsaver fares to increase by 4%
8 - Cork commuter fares up 1.5% to 2 % except for top zone which is held at current fares
9 -Multi operator monthly and annual fares up 2%

[James Howard]

So yet again, the people hit worst are Irish Rail's best customers. I get to enjoy worse service for yet another 4% increase. Wonderful. To make matters worse, they got granted twice what they asked!

[grainne whale]

So yet again, the people hit worst are Irish Rail's best customers. I get to enjoy worse service for yet another 4% increase. Wonderful. To make matters worse, they got granted twice what they asked!
Yes, typical - I'm delighted to say that I'll be purchasing my last Short Hop Annual Rail Ticket for 2017 soon - I wont be commuting to Heuston from end of May 2017 - 'money for old rope' not a day too soon for such an inept service.:D

[Colm Moore]

Hopefully they have removed all the two fares are cheaper than one situations.

[Kilocharlie]

No mention by NTA or Taxsaver of the GCD service for point to point tickets.

Taxsaver still refer to Heuston with usual Luas/DB extra but nothing about the new GCD service.

[Mark Gleeson]

We will make inquiries for what happens to someone with a Sallins Dublin annual as clearly they are due a part refund from Dec 1st

The fares for the Phoenix Park service are hidden in the determination

[Jamie2k9]

Are the NTA hoping that GCD services will make up the revenue shortfall from Sallins. The report claims to have a method but I wouldn't be so sure.

Would be skeptical that Killcock will receive Leap in June.

Recent fare elasticity works undertaken for Iarnród Éireann indicate
that intercity cash customers have higher fare elasticity’s than previously thought. Therefore any fare increase on intercity cash fares would result in a fall-off in passenger numbers. With this in mind and considering the current cost of single and return fares on all intercity services the Authority has determined that there shall be no fare increase on any single or return intercity
fares in 2017.

This is gas.....have they only realized this now!

[Underground]

There are going to be a lot of peed off Leixlip commuters. Leap card fares to city centre up by 47 cent from €2.46 to €2.93, a jump of over 19%

[James Howard]

They've been saying that about fare elasticity for the last couple of years. Essentially they know they can't get more money from the occasional traveller since they can take the bus, they can't get any money from the Free Travel, so they've basically been sticking it to the poor suffering commuter who has no choice.

My first pass 12 years ago was 2,400 euro. Next year it will be 4320 plus 220 parking. The average wage has essentially been flat over that period of time. The net cost after Taxsaver has almost exactly doubled. I can't remember the ongoing increases, but from memory a day return has gone up by not much more than 30 or 40% in the same time period.

A monthly for my station will now be 17.5 times the price of a day return. Since few people commute all five days from such a distance, essentially Irish Rail now get more money per journey from a season ticket holder than they do from a one-off day return. This is quite frankly ridiculous. In my case, I travel about 3.5 days a week on an annual so they get more money per journey from me than from a one-off day-tripper.

It's only the taxsaver that makes the whole thing worthwhile but that is nothing to do with Irish Rail.

[berneyarms]

There are going to be a lot of peed off Leixlip commuters. Leap card fares to city centre up by 47 cent from €2.46 to €2.93, a jump of over 19%

Presumably most commuters are using period passes and won't be hit by it. It would be more the occasional traveller that will feel the hit.

To be fair - why should Leixlip commuters pay a lower fare than people doing a similar commute distance wise on other lines?

There were legacy issues and this determination finally resolves the remaining inconsistencies - again some people win, some people lose out of this but we do now have a fairer suburban fares matrix.

[berneyarms]

We will make inquiries for what happens to someone with a Sallins Dublin annual as clearly they are due a part refund from Dec 1st

The fares for the Phoenix Park service are hidden in the determination

Hardly hidden - the fares from Sallins inwards are clearly there in the suburban fares matrix which is in the Appendix.

[Kilocharlie]

Hardly hidden - the fares from Sallins inwards are clearly there in the suburban fares matrix which is in the Appendix.

I was talking about point-to-point fares such as from Newbridge.

[Eddie]

I see that the increase date has been moved from 1 December to 1 January so those of us that were always first to be hit by the increase have effectively a 0% increase this year.

[grainne whale]

Presumably most commuters are using period passes and won't be hit by it. It would be more the occasional traveller that will feel the hit.

To be fair - why should Leixlip commuters pay a lower fare than people doing a similar commute distance wise on other lines?

There were legacy issues and this determination finally resolves the remaining inconsistencies - again some people win, some people lose out of this but we do now have a fairer suburban fares matrix. Cheaper for the occasional traveller to take the bus.

[berneyarms]

Cheaper for the occasional traveller to take the bus.

And given that the bus is slower, that's probably fairer too.

While the fare increase is frustrating for anyone that has to pay it, it does make sense that the fares are all correctly based on the distance travelled.

Someone in IE clearly goofed many years ago in setting up the fares on the Maynooth line and Leixlip was put into the wrong fare zone for travel to/from the city centre, among many other station combinations.

[grainne whale]

And given that the bus is slower, that's probably fairer too.

While the fare increase is frustrating for anyone that has to pay it, it does make sense that the fares are all correctly based on the distance travelled.

Someone in IE clearly goofed many years ago in setting up the fares on the Maynooth line and Leixlip was put into the wrong fare zone for travel to/from the city centre, among many other station combinations. Nope, the bus is much quicker (66X) with bus lanes and far cheaper fares especially with Leap.

[berneyarms]

Nope, the bus is much quicker (66X) with bus lanes and far cheaper fares especially with Leap.

What about during the rest of the day when most occasional travellers would be travelling?

The 66X is a very limited service only at peak hours and most users at those times would already have a period pass.

[grainne whale]

What about during the rest of the day when most occasional travellers would be travelling?

The 66X is a very limited service only at peak hours and most users at those times would already have a period pass. - It's still quicker - the train goes 'round the world for sport' before it gets into Conolly and even then it's a good bit away from the major shopping areas.

[BrianDeBruce]

Hi there,

The NTA said that Sallins & Naas is Leap ready so the fares will change in December? From what I am aware, the only place to tag on / off is the station house, which is generally open on weekday mornings.

Will they be installing the purple tag on / off poles for when the station house is shut - i.e. What about the evenings, weekends etc...? And how likely are they to have them installed before December?

Cheers,
Brian

[Mark Gleeson]

Should be fully setup for Dec 1st

[Underground]

While the fare increase is frustrating for anyone that has to pay it, it does make sense that the fares are all correctly based on the distance travelled.

I agree we should all pay the same for the same level of service. Quick electric trains every 10 mins. But the Maynooth line isn't DART, it's a realtively slow diesel service with trains only running hourly off peak.

Also, I'm confused why the NTA is moving Dublin Bus towards a single flat fare, and doing the opposite with IE fares. It's like the bus and train parts of the NTA aren't in the same office.

Anyway a 19.1% hike is still a 19.1% hike. Combined with an off-peak service that only runs once an hour, isn't any quicker than the bus, this won't encourage people to take the train.

[berneyarms]

I agree we should all pay the same for the same level of service. Quick electric trains every 10 mins. But the Maynooth line isn't DART, it's a realtively slow diesel service with trains only running hourly off peak.

Also, I'm confused why the NTA is moving Dublin Bus towards a single flat fare, and doing the opposite with IE fares. It's like the bus and train parts of the NTA aren't in the same office.

Anyway a 19.1% hike is still a 19.1% hike. Combined with an off-peak service that only runs once an hour, isn't any quicker than the bus, this won't encourage people to take the train.

Actually you are wrong - they are reducing the rail fare zones from six to five this year and reduced another one in recent years. They've also reduced the LUAS zones too.

If you compare the Maynooth line and Northern line, Leixlip customers were paying much less than people making a similar journey on the Northern line. That isn't fair.

However the switch should have been done more gradually than this, in the same way LUAS season tickets should have increased gradually rather than being frozen and then having a 10% hike.

[Underground]

Actually you are wrong - they are reducing the rail fare zones from six to five this year

Yes, we're aware. Means Leixlip to Maynooth has also gone up by 17.7%! :mad:

[berneyarms]

Yes, we're aware. Means Leixlip to Maynooth has also gone up by 17.7%! :mad:

Well you implied they weren't simplifying the number of rail fares - while they are in fact doing that.

There will always be winners and losers when that happens, but they should have made the change more gradual than this.

[Colm Moore]

Anyway a 19.1% hike is still a 19.1% hike. Yes, it is a steep adjustment, but it highlights how much of a discount some people were getting and the premium that others were paying. Was it fare, eh, fair that others were paying way over the odds?

[Inniskeen]

Given the continual downgrading of service quality for longer distance commuters on the northern line, it might be time to extend the cheaper inner suburban rates to Drogheda and Dundalk to reflect slow journey times, overcrowding and the use of low amenity rolling stock.